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	<title>Comments for Appraiser Talkback Blog</title>
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	<description>Published by Working RE and OREP - Providing Low Cost Errors and Omissions Insurance for Real Estate Professionals. OREP.org / WorkingRE.com</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Customary and Reasonable Fees: Now What? New WRE Survey Seeks Answers by Jack Schaefer</title>
		<link>http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=428&cpage=1#comment-5913</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Schaefer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 19:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=428#comment-5913</guid>
		<description>I filled out the survey and the fees stated are what would be expected not what is offered.  A fee offered by a major AMC is $225.oo for a 1004mc which is not accepted.  Although they seem to find appraisers who will do them for that fee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I filled out the survey and the fees stated are what would be expected not what is offered.  A fee offered by a major AMC is $225.oo for a 1004mc which is not accepted.  Although they seem to find appraisers who will do them for that fee.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Customary and Reasonable&#8221; Fees by Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=312&cpage=1#comment-5905</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 20:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=312#comment-5905</guid>
		<description>The idea that appraisal fees on the HUD-1 represent what the borrower is willing to pay is ridiculous.  First of all, the appraisal fee on the HUD-1 represents either only the appraiser's cut of what the borrower is told the appraisal fee is or the entire AMC fee.  And I'm pretty sure they never see what goes to the appraiser until they see the HUD-1.   Secondly, the borrower does not negotiate the appraisal fee with the lender.  They are told what the appraisal fee will be and they can either take it or leave and find another lender.  Appraisal fees should be for the appraisal only, and if nothing else, based on pre-HVCC/AMC fees.  AMC fees and other bank expenses are for what the lenders should have been doing prior to HVCC and the mortgage crisis, but that was just one more short cut they took to save money (read maximize profits).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea that appraisal fees on the HUD-1 represent what the borrower is willing to pay is ridiculous.  First of all, the appraisal fee on the HUD-1 represents either only the appraiser&#8217;s cut of what the borrower is told the appraisal fee is or the entire AMC fee.  And I&#8217;m pretty sure they never see what goes to the appraiser until they see the HUD-1.   Secondly, the borrower does not negotiate the appraisal fee with the lender.  They are told what the appraisal fee will be and they can either take it or leave and find another lender.  Appraisal fees should be for the appraisal only, and if nothing else, based on pre-HVCC/AMC fees.  AMC fees and other bank expenses are for what the lenders should have been doing prior to HVCC and the mortgage crisis, but that was just one more short cut they took to save money (read maximize profits).</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Customary and Reasonable&#8221; Fees by W.R.Buchanan</title>
		<link>http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=312&cpage=1#comment-5904</link>
		<dc:creator>W.R.Buchanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=312#comment-5904</guid>
		<description>We have been saddled with this term "Reasonable and Customary" . 
Now that we have  this term, nobody knows what it means. Kind of like the lie that is told so many times it becomes the truth.  

Now, we have to define a term after the fact, that will govern how much we make for the rest of our lives.  Does this not seem rediculous? 

  Appraisers have not gotten a raise since I have been in the business. (10 years) all because our fee structure is based on a set fee for a specific job. What this does not take into consideration is the fact that the complexity of that job cannot always be adequately predetermined prior to acceptance, and the fee can generally not be altered after acceptance.  As a result many times we end up having to spend many extra hours to complete a job that was NOT as it was represented .  IE: we make considerably less per hour on that job that requires more of our expertise to deal with !

I would submitt that if the customer is only willing to pay so much for an appraisal then ALL of that money should  go to the appraiser.  There is no reason other than greed that can justify a bank taking any money off an appraisal fee.  They already make more than enough, with their absolute barage of fees.  The only reason AMC's were created was to skim more money off every transaction, and ultimately run us out of the business. Don't bother to argue otherwise.

We are supposed to be professional people and as such should be charging professional rates.  We are licensed by the state, we have additional requirements to maintain that license and we have libility. The state says we are competant, that should be good enough for any bank. If they don't like your work then they can go elsewhere. Incompetants would be purged from the business by attrition.

Lawyers $300-600/hr, CPA's $250/hr, Plumbers $95/hr, Auto Mechanics $99/hr. All are charging professional rates for professional services, and those rates are generally are NOT negotiable!  Why are we taking less? WAY LESS!

I have adopted a "billable hours" rate scheudule at $75 per hour.  A normal tract house appraisal takes me about 5 hours to complete , thus $375. Obviously more complex appraisals will cost more, and I will bill extra for extra work!

  Obviously I have been met with total resistance from the lenders, but if more and more appraisers adopt a similar strategy, and as attrition removes more and more competition, the leverage will shift to our side of the fence. 
It is easy to come up with reasons why this strategy will not work, Instead why don't you come up with reasons that it will work and implement them! One is positive, one is negative, you choose.

I am urging everyone to adopt a similar rate structure and run it in the background.  You can bid jobs based on this structure and  when the leverage shifts to our side again you will already have this method of billing in place, and be able to profit from it instead of just hanging on like we are doing right now. If more and more appraisers adopt the "billable hours" payment model,,, IT will become reasonable and customary. 

Asking to be paid for your time is NOT un reasonable. And being told to include much more data in your product for no additional compensation is nothing more than theft enabled by a glut of incompetant's in the workforce.  

This will change as more people are starved out of the business. Be ready!

I also want to talk about joining an Advocacy Group in your area.  I am a Member of the California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals.  CCAP.  We are an Advocacy Only group of appraisers, who are having a measurable affect on legislation after only being in existance since March of this year.  Our letter writing and email campaign directed at the members of the House Finance Committee was instrumental in getting the "appraiser favorable" language put back into the bill, after it was removed.  Henry Waxman was quoted as saying "it's about time they organized." Referring to appraisers.

Come and look at our website and see what we are doing.  Also don't hesitate to sign up as we need the numbers to be more effective.  With only 1000 members out of the 13,000 appraisers in CA We could pretty much dictate what legislation we wanted to protect appraisers from abuse.   www.cacap.org  Check us out.

W.R.Buchanan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been saddled with this term &#8220;Reasonable and Customary&#8221; .<br />
Now that we have  this term, nobody knows what it means. Kind of like the lie that is told so many times it becomes the truth.  </p>
<p>Now, we have to define a term after the fact, that will govern how much we make for the rest of our lives.  Does this not seem rediculous? </p>
<p>  Appraisers have not gotten a raise since I have been in the business. (10 years) all because our fee structure is based on a set fee for a specific job. What this does not take into consideration is the fact that the complexity of that job cannot always be adequately predetermined prior to acceptance, and the fee can generally not be altered after acceptance.  As a result many times we end up having to spend many extra hours to complete a job that was NOT as it was represented .  IE: we make considerably less per hour on that job that requires more of our expertise to deal with !</p>
<p>I would submitt that if the customer is only willing to pay so much for an appraisal then ALL of that money should  go to the appraiser.  There is no reason other than greed that can justify a bank taking any money off an appraisal fee.  They already make more than enough, with their absolute barage of fees.  The only reason AMC&#8217;s were created was to skim more money off every transaction, and ultimately run us out of the business. Don&#8217;t bother to argue otherwise.</p>
<p>We are supposed to be professional people and as such should be charging professional rates.  We are licensed by the state, we have additional requirements to maintain that license and we have libility. The state says we are competant, that should be good enough for any bank. If they don&#8217;t like your work then they can go elsewhere. Incompetants would be purged from the business by attrition.</p>
<p>Lawyers $300-600/hr, CPA&#8217;s $250/hr, Plumbers $95/hr, Auto Mechanics $99/hr. All are charging professional rates for professional services, and those rates are generally are NOT negotiable!  Why are we taking less? WAY LESS!</p>
<p>I have adopted a &#8220;billable hours&#8221; rate scheudule at $75 per hour.  A normal tract house appraisal takes me about 5 hours to complete , thus $375. Obviously more complex appraisals will cost more, and I will bill extra for extra work!</p>
<p>  Obviously I have been met with total resistance from the lenders, but if more and more appraisers adopt a similar strategy, and as attrition removes more and more competition, the leverage will shift to our side of the fence.<br />
It is easy to come up with reasons why this strategy will not work, Instead why don&#8217;t you come up with reasons that it will work and implement them! One is positive, one is negative, you choose.</p>
<p>I am urging everyone to adopt a similar rate structure and run it in the background.  You can bid jobs based on this structure and  when the leverage shifts to our side again you will already have this method of billing in place, and be able to profit from it instead of just hanging on like we are doing right now. If more and more appraisers adopt the &#8220;billable hours&#8221; payment model,,, IT will become reasonable and customary. </p>
<p>Asking to be paid for your time is NOT un reasonable. And being told to include much more data in your product for no additional compensation is nothing more than theft enabled by a glut of incompetant&#8217;s in the workforce.  </p>
<p>This will change as more people are starved out of the business. Be ready!</p>
<p>I also want to talk about joining an Advocacy Group in your area.  I am a Member of the California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals.  CCAP.  We are an Advocacy Only group of appraisers, who are having a measurable affect on legislation after only being in existance since March of this year.  Our letter writing and email campaign directed at the members of the House Finance Committee was instrumental in getting the &#8220;appraiser favorable&#8221; language put back into the bill, after it was removed.  Henry Waxman was quoted as saying &#8220;it&#8217;s about time they organized.&#8221; Referring to appraisers.</p>
<p>Come and look at our website and see what we are doing.  Also don&#8217;t hesitate to sign up as we need the numbers to be more effective.  With only 1000 members out of the 13,000 appraisers in CA We could pretty much dictate what legislation we wanted to protect appraisers from abuse.   <a href="http://www.cacap.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.cacap.org</a>  Check us out.</p>
<p>W.R.Buchanan</p>
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		<title>Comment on Customary and Reasonable fees: Making Your Case by Edd</title>
		<link>http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=422&cpage=1#comment-5902</link>
		<dc:creator>Edd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=422#comment-5902</guid>
		<description>When you're filling out surveys as to what is "Customary and Reasonable", remember to be more in tune with what is "Reasonable" not what is customary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you&#8217;re filling out surveys as to what is &#8220;Customary and Reasonable&#8221;, remember to be more in tune with what is &#8220;Reasonable&#8221; not what is customary.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Customary and Reasonable fees: Making Your Case by Edd</title>
		<link>http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=422&cpage=1#comment-5901</link>
		<dc:creator>Edd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.orep.org/wordpress-2.7/wordpress/?p=422#comment-5901</guid>
		<description>The problem I see is the word "Customary".  Customary is not necessarily "Reasonable".  Our customary fees are way to low.  What is reasonable is a fee that will allow us to support our families, buy health insurance, pay tuition, house payments etc. and not fees that require that our wives have to work so we can "make it" have insurance etc..  A reasonable fee is about twice what we've been receiving and dubbed "customary".  I haven't had a raise in rates in 10 years.  It's long over due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I see is the word &#8220;Customary&#8221;.  Customary is not necessarily &#8220;Reasonable&#8221;.  Our customary fees are way to low.  What is reasonable is a fee that will allow us to support our families, buy health insurance, pay tuition, house payments etc. and not fees that require that our wives have to work so we can &#8220;make it&#8221; have insurance etc..  A reasonable fee is about twice what we&#8217;ve been receiving and dubbed &#8220;customary&#8221;.  I haven&#8217;t had a raise in rates in 10 years.  It&#8217;s long over due.</p>
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