As suggested by readers, this space is designated for appraisers to comment on their experiences with AMCs that they have worked with. Whether it’s a major or private AMC, a good experience or bad, please share with your fellow appraisers. Include fee expectations, turn time expectations, unusual requests, flow of business, reporting requirements, ease of technology platform, payment and pressure issues or any other criteria. This is intended as a free exchange of information to help appraisers make informative decisions about the AMCs they work with. Please keep all comments constructive, factual and fair.
Please note that Working RE and OREP do not substantiate or verify any of the comments posted here.
541 responses so far ↓
1 RM // May 10, 2013 at 7:47 am
Mortgage Management Consulting of Edison, NJ. GA AMC #76. Avoid this AMC - they do NOT pay. The loan closed 30 days ago. Have sent correspondence. Next step is formal complaint to GA State Board. Real Estate Mortgage Network is also affiliated with this company. Stay away from both.
2 Working RE Magazine // Apr 29, 2013 at 9:23 am
Appraisal Advisor is challenging every appraiser in the nation to review at least 5 clients that you have worked with in the last two years. Remember that client that was so incredibly hard to deal with that you wanted to pull your hair out? Remember that client that was an absolute pleasure to work with?
Appraisal Advisor provides appraisers with up-to-date, real time interactions with clients. We need your reviews to make that happen. Every time you complete an appraisal, make it a habit to write a quick review about your experience.
Appraisal Advisor provides appraisers with similar techniques to what banks use before extending credit to someone. Generally, if an applicant has bad or unknown credit, the bank’s rates are higher.
The problem most appraisers face is that they often don’t know about a potential client’s creditworthiness. If they did, the recent ES Appraisal, JVI, and AppraiserLoft debacles wouldn’t have occurred. But banks do have an idea by using credit reports. How do credit reports get created? Banks and other creditors submit all borrower histories to the credit agencies. We’ll be able to establish client payment histories and business practice reviews the same way, as long as appraisers like you submit reviews and invoice data through our system.
What are you waiting for? Start reviewing your clients now
3 Avp1 // Apr 28, 2013 at 2:09 pm
one question: why would any respectable appraiser do any work for PVC Murcor? again, don’t waste your time with the disrespectful, thieving, bottom feeder amcs like pcv murcor, nations valutions, valuation partners, act, LSI, etc. THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR APPRAISERS!!! BOYCOTT THEM ALL!!!
4 SC appraiser // Apr 26, 2013 at 1:09 pm
The best way to deal with amc is don’t. I can say I currently do not do business with any amc. If every one would quit accepting work from amc, they would be out of business. The amc’s are the one’s in your pocket, talking all your money. Business has been good lately and this is the purfect time.
5 Working RE Magazine // Apr 15, 2013 at 10:47 am
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6 Patty Sines // Apr 11, 2013 at 5:59 am
I’ve been appraising for over 16 yrs, I worked for Amc’s before there were Amc’s, anyhow my current biggest gripe is the over zealous AMC reps that constantly try to tell me how to prepare an appraisal report, what to say and what I have to (client requirements) put in the report. Really??? Federal regulations tell me what steps to take and what I must consider. FANNIEMAE & FREDDIEMAC ARE GUIDELINES, GUIDELINES ARE JUST THAT GUIDELINES!!! THEY ARE NOT LAW. AND GUIDELINES DO NOT SUPERCEED FEDERAL REGULATIONS IN THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY. And how long have they been appraising in my area? If they know so much about it why don’t they come here and do it them selves? I have fired myself from many many companies, and will continue to do so when they become anal about telling me how to prepare reports and do my job when they don’t have a clue, I am sick to death of non-industry workers telling appraisers how to do their job and so should you. These reps are hired off the street trained to go off a checklist, paid to badger the appraiser to the end of the earth, annoy them daily with update requests, paid to find revisions on completed reports, paid to answer to the banks, bankers, brokers and the Mortgage industry, they are not trained in the Mortgage Industry, Appraisal Industry, Banking Industry, Real Estate Industry or any other related Industry to ours and these people are TELLING THE APPRAISER WHAT TO DO, HOW TO DO IT AND WHAT TO SAY IN THEIR REPORTS?????? Guided of course by the lender. . . . . Something is incredibly wrong with this picture. Now you have to be a college graduate to be a new Appraiser in most states in the US, but anyone can be hired off the street by an AMC and go off a checklist to control the Mortgage Industry in the name of HVCC regulations, that were instituted I might add, by a puppet government that said the “LARGE BANKS ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL” a NY rep (now the Gov of NY Andrew Quomo) caved and cut a deal with the other crooks on Wall Street that brought the rest of the industry down just to shut them up with token regulations, because the crooked bankers and mortgage officers could not keep their greedy fingers out of the varitable money pie.
I recently fired myself from Kirchmeyer & Associates after placing an order I would inspect it and then it would dissapear from my query, after inquiring where it had gone that I had already inspected the exterior they said it was reassigned to someone else, they continually come back day after day week after week with their mindless revision requests when they can’t even get the subject property address correct. Last week I fired myself from Streetlinks, of course I told them to never send me another request or email which they cannot fathom, so they continue to send me automated updates through their system and bug me to death after the fact, I once had a nightmare order from them that lasted 6 months, yes I said 6 months they would come back every week or every few days for 6 months on a purchase wanting this revised then that revised. When you can’t stand their incessant crap anymore you de-hire yourself. Life is too short to put up with their crap. And I plan to NEVER accept any assignments under my regular fee! As a matter of fact my fees regularly increase based on amount of detail requested by the client and the AMC and the cost of gasoline, cost of living among other things. I love the guy from CA that gets paid 270 per order works at home and makes 70zk per yr, really? How does that work? He must have a crystal ball to know all the details of the properties from his home and the ability to pull free services & goods of all his business needs out of the air, because the last time I looked net income calculated as gross less expenses. Oh well as others before me have said let me reconfirm the fact that we only get paid what we are worth & if you agree to work for less than market fees so be it. The appraisal industry will have very few trained knowledgeable professionals to offer the public in the very near future thanks mainly to the lending industry that have always have called the shots and will continue to do so and blame everyone else along the way.
7 Darrin Bailey // Apr 11, 2013 at 4:47 am
Has anyone had any dealings with Solution Star Settlement Services?
They sent me an unsolicited application packet. I have never heard of them.
Thanks
8 Darrin Bailey // Apr 11, 2013 at 4:44 am
Has anyone had any dealing with Solution Star Settlement Services?
They sent me an unsolicited application packet. I have never heard from them.
9 dg // Apr 8, 2013 at 1:51 pm
I’ve had it with PCV Murcor. I just got an e-mail cancelling an appraisal which I turned in OVER two weeks ago. The last time they pulled this crap they offered me a trip fee…they finally backed off when I threatened to file a complaint with the state. I finally got paid my full fee but it is ridiculous that I, or any appraiser, should have to waste their time threatening minimum wagers to get the fees which we earned.
10 SA // Apr 7, 2013 at 6:03 am
Hmmm… establish an AMC name, file as a protected corporation, lure in a few million dollars worth of appraisal work, bank the (appraisers) hard earned fees in a hidden acct(overseas) . Dont pay the apprasier. Give him/her the runaround for a while. SHUT DOWN, CLAIM CORP BANKRUPTSY AND RUN WITH THE MILLIONS! WE JUST CREATED THE GREATEST PONZI SCHEME 2ND TO BERNY..GREAT JOB APPRAISERLOFT…..In a few years, most AMC’S will be on 60minutes….JUST GOTTA FEEL BAD FOR THE GUY WHO GETS CAUGHT AT THE END OF THE LINE…..GUARANTEED.
11 Ted Smith // Apr 3, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Do not use VESTA VALUATION. They do not pay and have to beg for the money. They say within 45 days, nut has taken as long as 90-180 days on some deals. Plus they want you to upload report to a different website that charges $10 to upload.
12 Former IAS VP // Apr 3, 2013 at 1:24 pm
I am a former VP for the IAS Valuation department. I am speaking from first hand knowledge.
If you are accepting any work for them through ANY of the regional AMC groups they work with, STOP!! Now that I’m past my 6 month non-disclosure, I am speaking out to warn anyone working with them, whether appraiser or BPO agent. At the time I left, they did not have the resources to pay everyone they owed. Contacts I still have within the company confirm that has not changed.
If you are still getting the run-around on payment, legal action may be your best option at this point. I highly recommend you consult an attorney now before they follow eVal Solutions and JVI.
One last note, Summit Valuation out of Baltimore really is owed by IAS, and the amount is staggering. As much as it hurts me to hurt a friend, I do recommend not taking work from Summit at this time.
- happy to be free from IAS…
13 Debi Rogers // Mar 24, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Do NOT do work for Summit Appraisal Management, out of Baltimore Maryland and orders come through Mercury Network. They claim their client “IAS” has not paid them, so they will not pay me for 2 appraisals. They are both short sale properties so you cannot lien the properties for any money. Mercury Network says they will not allow Summit Appraisal Management to order appraisals with a lender of IAS but are allowed to order them for other lenders.
14 Mike // Mar 19, 2013 at 8:24 am
I told Corelogic “stick it in your ass” after they wanted me to do work for less than prior to the last changes in bankning laws. Really actually told their assclown that called from vendor mgt to “stick it in your ass” What do you know, I got my desired result, they removed me from the list of fools.
15 SC appraiser // Mar 18, 2013 at 6:26 am
Fla Appraiser - I had problems getting paid from these people. They are on my Black List.
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17 CHRIS // Mar 4, 2013 at 3:52 pm
EMAILS FROM THE AMC’S THAT REFUSE TO PAY WHAT IS REASONABLE & CUSTOMARY LIKE VALUATION PARTNERS, PVC MURCOR, NOVO, COESTER, CORELOGIC, ETC., GET FILTERED DIRECTLY INTO THE JUNK FOLDER AND I NEVER EVEN BOTHER WITH THEM.
18 Fla Appraiser // Feb 28, 2013 at 3:01 pm
I just received an invitation to join the panel of FIRSTVALUATION located in Westminster, CO. Does anyone have any experience with this company?
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20 rm // Feb 26, 2013 at 9:41 am
APPRAISAL NATION in RALEIGH, NC does NOT pay. They do not respond to your correspondence either.
I would advise to not work for this AMC. I have filed a complaint to the state board, the Lender, and OCC. I encourage others to do the same if they are owed money by this AMC and any others. If the states get enough complaints - maybe they will revoke their license that state. Wonder how much business that would cost them especially when is a neighbor state….
21 JeffCA // Feb 20, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Beware of Solidifi, they are a nightmare to deal with. They think way too highly of themselves there which is confusiing since they take almost THREE MONTHS to pay. Just another shady AMC created by the HVCC.
22 Moses // Feb 20, 2013 at 3:59 pm
I worked with Epic Real Estate Solutions several months, they offer reasonable fees; however, i did not receive even a single payment from them. I have jobs that are almost 90 days old. Their accounts receivable dept. can’t be reached over the phone and they are not responding to emails. did anyone have experience with them?
23 FEDUP // Feb 18, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Just finished a report for PNC Mortgage. What a hellish assignment. Thei need for additional inane, useless comments and ‘data’ was mind boggling. If you do work for these folks add another $100 to your fee becuase their requests for additional info will take you 2-3 more hours of mind-numbing meaningless work. Insane!
24 rm // Feb 8, 2013 at 9:45 am
We can be in control of our own destiny folks. I just heard recently that my state is losing 25-30 appraisers a month.
This does not surprise me and I contribute low fees, non-payment of fees and never ending scope creep as the primary reasons.
For me, I have chosen to hang-on and implement a 5-year plan:
Take a small amount of capital (doesn’t take much in today’s market) - purchase REO property, upgrade then re-sell for $20K-$30K profit.
We see others do this all the time - Why let them have all the fun.
Repeat…..Repeat……
At $100K - never go all in. Put $50K in bank. Buy $50k property, upgrade, re-sell for $100K plus.
Repeat…… Repeat……
At $1M - Quit appraisal business - Move to New Zealand.
Be Happy……
25 jb // Feb 5, 2013 at 10:45 am
hmmmmm…let me see..open up an amc, market to big banks n direct lenders, take a split of the appraisers salary for doing little, hold their checks for net 30-60days,bank the money in a seperate acct, fudge expenses, claim bankruptsy and run with all the appraisers millions…….im in the wrong business here.
26 Appraiser Marion // Feb 4, 2013 at 10:04 pm
If you are owed money by JVI or ES APPRAISAL or NRIES or any other AMC that went out of business please contact: ijh @ ijhill . com
Remove the spaces. If you have emails from any of these AMCs prior to them going out of business please send them to the address above. Together we can take back our industry from the crooks.
27 Shelli // Feb 4, 2013 at 12:35 pm
JVI is out of business I believe, read the comments on this site.
28 SHARON // Feb 2, 2013 at 7:11 pm
JVI OWES OVER A $1,000. Tried calling,emailing and no answer. Has anyone heard anything new about this company?
29 James O'Dea // Jan 23, 2013 at 10:49 am
This is a great forum to check if companies are worthly of our hard work and effort. Each person needs to really check out AMC companies before accepting any work. Please stop accepting fee work that does not make sense!
30 Woody // Jan 22, 2013 at 7:11 am
If you are accepting lower fees then YOU are the problem not the AMC. The AMC concept can work, but the appraiser has to stick to their terms. Accept a lower fee and YOU are the problem. Just like anything service the buyer wants the best quality at the lowest price, an AMC is no different. There are no good auto mechanics charing $10 and hour, but there seem to be many appraisers that will deliever a report for $250 or less. I just don’t get it.
31 ss // Jan 21, 2013 at 7:25 pm
Once again, a well known management co that has been consistenly giving me work for over 5 years has suddenly reduced my volume by 80 %. When I called, I was told bluntly and honestly that most appraisers are now accepting 225 for 1family and 350 for multi… what is wrong with these appraisers and this industry…so glad I am able to turn these fees down. This industry will not survive, mortgage rates will soon (mid 2013) increase significantly reducing the number of loan apps therfore reducing the number of appraisal work which will lead to management companies having the upper hand and significanly increasing their split for our hard work…run for the hills!
32 Fla Appraiser // Jan 18, 2013 at 12:33 pm
We just received an “invitation” to connect with an AMC called TRIMAVIN. Does anyone have any experience with this company? We would like to know the scoop before accepting any work from them. Thank you!
33 JB // Jan 18, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Wow, holy crap. I was going to get my license and have lined up a training position, BUT after reading this stuff I am flabbergasted! I have been out of the real estate business for 5 years, but my friends had told me about the ‘wheel’ thing, how appraisers get picked. I ASSUMED that it was a state run clearing house…which sounded okay, I mean, some appraisers WERE part of the problem by bumping appraisals (or they would not get any work from the banks).
Now I see that the banks just created another scam (APPRAISAL MANAGEMENT COMPANIES), regulating themselves, AGAIN.
Create a shell company to sieve your appraisals through so you can take the cream off the top and lower the appraiser’s pay. (Then you can lose the in house cost of auditing appraisals)…Quite ingenious (and evil, as always). And I see they STILL are allowed to lean on the appraiser to get to the sale price or you are out of work.
Since there are no regulatory oversite of this NEW IMPROVEMENT to the system, it just creates another level of skimming and scamming.’
Obviously Appraisal Associations are not helping those in the industry. They would be getting the word to the public that they are over-paying for appraisals with a middle man that takes money and provides no benefit.
If there are/is appraisal organization(s) that advocate for the individual appraiser toward some meaningful reform…I would gladly volunteer.
Seems like a better way to spend my time than dropping a bunch of $$ and time into getting an appraisal license just to work in this cess-pool.
OMG can’t believe this occupation has been screwed over so bad. Where the hell is the Justice Dept dudes when you need them?
I feel for ya guys…
34 Shelli // Jan 18, 2013 at 7:18 am
The reason all of these AMCs get away with paying appraisers low fees is because all of you keep accepting orders agreeing to the low fees. Quit accepting them. Supply & Demand folks. There is apparently a large supply of appraisers that are willing to do this. You can sit on your butt for free. Once your wheels are turning and you are working you are going to be in the negative as to earnings since you are not getting paid adequately for your time, travel, expenses, experience & service. I bet if you worked at McDonalds and they called you to work and said “we are going to pay you but it will be less than you should get and we are going to pay you about 3 times a year…” that McDonalds would not have employees very long because nobody would agree to that (unless you are an appraiser, in which you would just follow like a sheep and say OK). STOP DOING THE WORK. They need your services. Make them pay for it. When you go to an attorney you pay the fee they tell you to pay. It’s not “Lets Make a Deal”.
No othe profession is accepting fees lower than those seen 20 years ago. The AMC employees are getting paid on a weekly or bi weekly basis as are those that work in the banks. Why do you think that you should be paid only 2-3 times a year, if at all and for a fee that will not even cover the cost of the service or product provided? No other profession accepts this-nor should appraisers. Decline the offer to work for $3 per hour and not get paid. WOW. You all can make this stop.
35 Shelli // Jan 17, 2013 at 11:23 am
To Paul Hendricks in reference to ServiceLink and StreetLinks, I too had same issues, I emailed them a notification that a lien would be placed on the property owner’s property that was appraised and I also sent notification to the property owner’s stating that because their lender hired a company to handle the appraisal on their property and the appraiser fee was not paid that a lien would be placed on their property for the amount of the fee plus late fees and filing fees…. i gave them all 30 days… worked like a charm. i was paid and double paid (i refunded the extra minus the late fees and filing fees). The home owners were livid since they all had to pay those fees to the lender up front. Do it for all of your non paying AMC’s. It does work. I do not accept orders from any of them unless the fee is direct deposit. I notify them that the appraisal is completed and ready for download, they have to deposit the fee before it is released for download. Shelli
36 Mark-not to -Market // Jan 16, 2013 at 3:21 pm
I received an offer to do an appraisal in Orange County, California for a standard attached single family residence. The fee offered by Mark-to-Market was unreasonably low. It was not a “reasonable and customary” fee. The Mark-to-Market email said that I could “negotiate” the fee and then Mark-to-Market would respond to me within 4 hours regarding the acceptance or rejection of the offer. I sent the negotiation notice at 5:00 PM. Since there was no one in the office after 5:00 PM, the 4 hour window was basically pointless. There was no one there to respond to the “negotiated” fee request. So, when the 4 hour window expired at 9:00 PM the offer went out as a “blast” to anyone who would settle for the low fee. I wasn’t even given the 1st right of refusal on the lower fee. Essentially, the moment I responded to Mark-to-Market’s offer to negotiate the fee, I was rejected and the offer went out to the field for takers. Here’s the problem, as I see it; the AMC must pay “reasonable and customary” fees. They did not, so they offered to allow me an opportunity to negotiate the fee. Once I “negotiated” the fee the order was summarily and systematically cancelled and the offer was sent out as a “blast” to anyone who would do the assignment at an unreasonable and non-customary fee. Basically, there is no opportunity to negotiate the fee and the company is not paying a reasonable and customary fee. Not sure if Mark-to-Market acted in an illegal or just an unethical manner. I would like to know if this has happened to others. If so, I would suggest a letter be sent to Mark-to-Market letting the company know that they acted in an unethical or possibly an illegal manner. The letter then should be posted on the Internet for all to read. Perhaps then the company’s policy may change. By the way, when I spoke with a Mark-to-Market representative, he said that they are aware of the way the “negotiation” process works and it has been that way for many years. Let me know if you have had a similar experience. Thanks.
37 Weaver // Jan 16, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Push your state’s licensing board to adopt NC’s system which states that an AMC that doesn’t pay for the appraisal within 30 days of the report being submitted (not addendums or request for more comps) risks loosing their NC registration.
38 FL Robin // Jan 16, 2013 at 10:38 am
I just came back to appraising after 7 months at a desk job. Unfortunately the desk job didn’t work out, so back to appraising it is. Things are a little better but not much. Still get cancels from LSI most of the time when I ask for a fee increase. However I know I am going to get paid and the turn times are a little more reasonable then they were 7 months ago. I only work for one other company. I just ignore most requests. I did 2 reports for evaluation last year, took me 7 months to get paid. Never accepted another assignment from them although in the month before they closed they call almost every day. My favorite is ….”accepted their last 5 jobs and threw the assignments in the garbage while updating them that they would be in the next day”. The next time I leave the profession (as I am still trying to get out) I am going to do this. Be safe, have fun, enjoy life. Appraising sucks.
39 John // Jan 8, 2013 at 2:30 pm
joe wiser, i agree RELS is bad but not AS bad as many others.
40 Bobby // Dec 31, 2012 at 9:09 pm
Wow! It is really bad out there! I am a Certified Appraiser that has been licensed for 12 years. I just started appraising again in 2012. Took two years off. I came back and I was working with one small local AMC in Wisconsin. They paid ok $325.00 for 1004 $450-$500 for 1025. After about a month, they were constanly asking me to reconsideration my value. I had a 1100 square foot cape cod with plenty of comps within 300 square feet + and - within a mile. The homeowner and loan office cried because I did not use the 2100 square foot sale next door. The AMC (who should be impartial) attack me too. I shared with the AMC that I am the professional, I know this market and I will not let non appraisers dictate my value opinion…I never heard from that AMC again. I am using my Master’s degree anyway, and only work partime as an appraiser now. Have a back up plan my friends!!!
41 Joe Wiser // Dec 30, 2012 at 7:09 am
Rels a quality AMC? Please. Go ahead and work for them, and watch how they gradually cut you off at the knees. And example: “Announcement: We’re folding the fee structure for $1M - $1.5M and $1.5M to $2M. together. You’ll now receive the lower amount.”
They’ve also been known to beat on you if you don’t come up with sale value (based on true story)! That’s right, the same outfit that invented the blind selection wheel for fee assignment.
If you have to work for them, drive the hard bargain. Period, end of story.
42 Edd // Dec 25, 2012 at 6:44 am
John has the only answer that makes sense as long as there are AMCs making assignments. There is little question in my mind that if we rejected AMC work in mass and Fannie’s funny stuff with it that things will change, but somehow appraisers just aren’t wired that way. We continue complain while we let these people tell us what our work is worth and they’ve told us loudly that it’s not worth very much at all.
And AZ’s post begs the question again. Why do we trust these people about whom no one knows anything? Thanks AZ for the heads up as another bites the dust. Remember, the law is pretty much supporting the proposition that the lender still owes you your unpaid fee even if the AMC they went belly up before you got paid, and don’t count on the lawyer for the AMC’s bankruptcy to get you paid. Not his job man.
I’m pleased David provided this forum for us to compare and share info about AMCs. I notice there is far more bad news than good. So, if making a living is necessary, get another part time job until you can cultivate work that has nothing whatsoever to do with Fannie Mae appraising.
Nobody can fix this secondary mortgage market, nobody. And it is terribly broken. Strangely, appraisal is the healthiest part of it, but they are trying to take us down with them.
Also, while you take a break from a steady diet of junk, train yourself in micro economics and the essential skills of information gathering, verification, analysis and communicating conclusions. Those skills are critical to appraising and are not nearly as well taught in our profession as word smithing has been.
43 AZ10Realtor // Dec 20, 2012 at 4:53 pm
ES Appraisals/Evalonline ceased operations
The following was sent to several appraisers today.
Due to unforeseen circumstances Evaluation Solutions, ES Appraisal Services is ceasing operations. Any inquiries should be directed to :
Bradley R. Markey
Stutsman Thames & Markey, P.A.
50 N. Laura Street, Suite 1600
Jacksonville, Florida 32202
brm@stmlaw.net
44 John // Dec 19, 2012 at 1:46 pm
How is it that low quality AMCs like corelogic, valuation partners, pvc murcor, streetlinks, & LSI get away with paying appraisers criminally low fees while decent AMCs like Rels, landsafe, and Solidifi pay what is reasonable and customary? DON’T ACCEPT WORK FROM LOW QUALITY LOWBALLING AMCS UNTIL THEY DO WHAT IS RIGHT!
45 Edd // Dec 17, 2012 at 3:36 pm
Way to go Fla! If I had any money I’d send it to you overnight express.
You’ve got it right. All the talk about getting somebody to straighten out AMCs so appraisers are happy is nothing but noise. We have to do it ourselves, and you’re doing it.
Poor you may be, but proud you should be.
No doubt if we reject their crumbs the lenders and their surrogate AMCs will turn to more BPOs and AVMs. Let ‘em. Then if the regulators are happy with that, so be it. But, it is plumb stupid to offer the best you know how to do for the lowest/slowest fee and fastest turn they can get you to live with.
And it is easy to a run a short discounted cash flow analysis on slow pay and figure out the further discount you are making in the fee to get slow pay AMC work.
As for me, my invoices are due on delivery and AMCs will just turn inside out when you tell them that. The only problem is that I don’t get to watch while they work themselves into a tissy over my “policy.” I got an appraisal ready to deliver and I called the AMC who prides itself on paying in 45 days. I told the guy he would have to agree to pay upon delivery and he fired me on the spot. I said yipee, get yourself another appraiser, I’ll just frame your report. His boss called back and asked me to send the report and he’d get me paid right away.
Anyway I don’t accept any assignments from them any more.
The good clients expect to pay for service when services are rendered. That is the way it is done by professionals.
Why not just join the professionals who have already paved the way for us instead of extending credit to AMCs?
46 Fla Appraiser // Dec 17, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Stand up for yourself. I was just contacted by a new AMC (new to me anyway). Everything sounded good for the job until I asked about their payment schedule. It is December 17, 2012. He said payment would go out at the end of February 2013, if I got the job done next week (by the way, that would be Christmas). How are you supposed to run a small business this way? I told him no thank you. I told him my regulars pay within 30 days and anything other than that was not acceptable to the way I run my business. He did not sound surprised at my answer. Stand up for what is right and the AMCs will have no choice but to become legitimate, above board businesses!
47 Paul Hendricks // Dec 17, 2012 at 7:01 am
I have been fighting to get my money out of the company called ServiceLink. I am currently owed $1,025 for three appraisals. I done the work back in early October, they said a check went out but to my old address. Really!! I have not lived at the old address for over three years, and I recently joined their panel and gave them all up dated information.
Begging for my money is getting old. Also, I have other companies that I just loined and are paying a lot less than normal, $260.00 for a 1004 no matter the distance??? You try and negotiate with them and they say ” I have to see if I can get that approved” and never call you back.
Appraisers need to come together, we have nobody representing us as a whole, there are no laws protecting us or supporting us. This is why unions were started back in the day!!
We need representation!!!
48 Andy // Dec 13, 2012 at 12:57 pm
DO NOT do any business with US APPRAISAL GROUP Inc. out of Chicago IL. They never pay and you can never reach them on the phone I dont even think any real appraisers work there. Its a scam co. that only works with online “banks” with poor quality control. RUN! I heard there is a AMC law suite pending because they dont pay and dont follow the “rules”.
49 Fla Appraiser // Dec 6, 2012 at 5:18 am
Why is it that AMCs are becoming state regulated and licensed, but there are still some out there that are not paying appraisers? Real Estate Brokers are state licensed, and are required to set up escrow accounts for the money they hold in trust to be distributed to others (such as renter’s deposits, etc). These escrow accounts must be reconciled monthly and are subject to serious state scrutiny. Failure to reconcile and account for all funds can result in fines, suspension or license revocation for the broker. The money AMCs taken from the bank is NOT all their money. A portion is the appraiser’s money. Why are AMCs not required to maintain these funds in a similar manner to a real estate broker? The AMC should be held responsible to account for the funds owed to the appraiser, and if an AMC is failing to do this, they should be punished at the state level, similar to the broker. Why is in not a felony to keep the money paid up front by the borrower, and not pay the appraiser for their work? Is this not theft? The banking industry is highly regulated, and so are we appraisers. Why is there this donut-hole of non-regulation when it comes to AMC’s handling of funds?
50 diana kanitz // Dec 4, 2012 at 2:47 pm
does anyone know if RR Review pays on time? They seem to be out of Salt Lake, but most of the time when you call you get Mumbai-India
51 TD // Nov 30, 2012 at 11:38 am
DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT accept orders from ES Appraisal / EValonline
https://www.evalonline.com
There are tons of appraisers all over the country struggling to get paid.
I finially got my check which paid out their account with me in full, and now I don’t accept orders from them any longer! If we ALL stop, maybe they will get put out of business, which is exactly what needs to happen to them!!!!
http://appraiserincome.com/2012/02/14/es-appraisal-services-evalonline-com-not-paying-appraisers/?goback=%2Egde_755777_member_95779315
This is how they do business! They are constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul.
If your state has an AMC Law in place, PLEASE FILE A FORMAL COMPLAINT!
If all appraisers with unpaid invoices would do that, the rest of us would not have done business with these crooks!
For those of you who are still owed money, contact info I have collected;
Lorie Carter
Administrative Assistant
904-288-2013 direct number
lcarter@evalonline.net
* she will send you emails saying the check is “in process” and also that the check is “in the mail”. ALL LIES TO DELAY PAYMENT. And unless your phone message is threatening, she will not call you back.
Melissa Rivers
Accounting
mrivers@evalonline.net
* no phone number available
* NEVER responds to emails but you are told she is the one handling accounting.
Jim Moore
Director
JIM.MOORE@ESAPPRAISALSERVICES.US.COM
* no number available.
* is supposed to be the director of the joint and I have heard it said that he will take care of your complaints, however he did not respond to my emails.
Jillian Glover
Valuation Specialist
ES Appraisal Services
jillian.glover@appraisalservices.us.com
(904) 288-2029
*had one appraiser say that Jillian helped to get her paid. Notice that Jillian’s email is different that the others.
Good luck guys! BTW, after you know these people are NOT paying correctly, if you keep accepting their orders….NO MATTER THE VOLUME OR FEE….and get stuck when they go under, you have no one to blame but yourself. We tried to warn you!!
52 anonymous // Nov 24, 2012 at 2:37 pm
to Bob Henry RE: Review Work
In addition to Interthinx, CRS Collateral Risk Solutions in CA and Allstate Appraisal,LP out of Chicago do a lot of review work. Both pay reasonably in my market.
Never had a problem getting paid.
Also, did one or two Retro 2055’s for Springhouse and had no problem getting paid.
For others:
Have done a lot of AMC work over my 20+ yrs, both on my own and for a local appraisal shop when I fist started….
They all have their pros and cons…none are perfect.
Dart has a payment schedule and does direct deposit based on when the report was completed. When you log in, there is a section on the main page which will show when and how much you will be paid, then the direct deposit appears in your account on that day.
ISGN - YOU WILL NEVER BE LONELY!!!
They have people calling ALL THE TIME from India, who i believe are also the “Check box jockeys”.
Their “correction” requests are mostly for things contained in the report or addendum.
Valuation Partners/William Fall Group….
One in the same… Val partners are low pay… William Fall accepts other(low pay) AMC work and will assign to you for 42% of that fee. In other words, will accept LSI fee of $325 for a FHA report(way below C&R, and well below other AMC FHA fees), then pay you $136.50…for a FHA appraisal. Then you get the privelege of doing a repair inspection for $36. RUN…don’t walk away from them. The review stips are ridiculous!!!
Data Quick is hiring staff appraisers. I guess the $200 for 1004’s is just too much!
Metro West - another company with the same business model as William Fall/Valuation Partners. They want to hire “staff appraisers” to skim 60+-% from the already low AMC fees.
I and another appraiser I know inquired just to find out and to see if we could supplement our business, but were told flat out that we didn’t fit their business model based on our current average monthly assignments and income. In our interpretation, they needed less established or experienced appraisers, who would consider $100 to $136 a pay raise.
53 mark in SC // Nov 24, 2012 at 10:26 am
Seem we are getting a lot of “new” amc’s. I think some are just changing their names. When amc’s ask for a quick turn time, I have been saying, “how fast can you get me a check”. I have been asking to get paid up front. You know, the old collect at the door is better than working for some of these amc’s who do not pay.
I still do work for some of the local banks and don’t need the BS that comes with amc’s.
54 Edd // Nov 23, 2012 at 5:57 pm
OK David, despite the obvious relevancy of your template, it’s not popular and isn’t going to be much used.
This isn’t about fees, but somebody mentioned reading and understanding what is included in an assignment. So, since USPAP doesn’t really create any thing new with regard to causes of action why don’t we discuss the biggie that appraisers might be sued for?
Negligence (sort of a lack of competence thing in USPAPeese). Did you know that the statute of limitations with respect to bringing a negligence action is pretty short? Like two or three years in most states. And did you know that those indemnification agreements just blow that protection away (among other things)?
So why do you think AMCs want some impoverished appraiser with no reserves to indemnify them and at the same time require him/her to carry E&O?
55 Henry // Nov 16, 2012 at 9:53 am
CS Appraisals, for all appraisers who read this, they simply DO NOT PAY for the reports. CS Appraisals order appraisal assignment’s for “Washington Mutual Chase”, a call to Chase to inquire about payment for the reports they receive from CA Appraisals goes to deaf ears in India. The worst that will happen is CS Appraisals will most likely open under another name and continue work ethics as usual.
56 Gabe W // Nov 15, 2012 at 12:17 am
Vicki - can you email me your contact at Wells for the JVI invoices? Thanks
57 Vicki // Nov 14, 2012 at 12:42 pm
FYI - Wells Fargo has agreed to pay for the JVI appraisals our firm has completed with Wells as the client. Thanks Wells Fargo!
58 John // Nov 9, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Here’s an idea - don’t waste your time with the slimy, low paying, second rate AMC’s like corelogic, valuation partners, pvc murcor, etc. As long as they refuse to pay reasonable and customary fees they are in violation of Dodd/Frank and can’t be taken seriously.
59 Anon // Nov 7, 2012 at 11:56 am
I cannot stress enough to read and understand appraisal agreements from AMCs. CoreLogic is requesting appraisers to sign one that (among other issues) states the appraiser must be available between 8:00 a.m. and 8:00 p.m. Monday through Friday. Also, the indemnificantion AGreement makes the appraiser liable not only for appraiser negligence or willful misconduct but also for “otherwise.” What is “otherwise”? Be aware of what you are signing.
60 dcappraiser // Nov 7, 2012 at 9:51 am
DON’T WASTE YOUR TIME WITH SOLIDIFI, THEY ARE AWFUL
61 Retired Appraiser // Oct 29, 2012 at 7:57 pm
Michael R
You have it partially right; it’s a free country (unless you are an appraiser).
Personally, I cannot think of another job in the U.S. that more closely resembles involuntary servitude (slavery) than the residential appraisal profession after May 1, 2009.
62 shane // Oct 29, 2012 at 12:00 pm
Michael R,
you are pitiful. “appraisers” like you are ruining the business. there are plenty of amcs that use real appraisers as reviewer. that’s how it’s supposed to work. streetlinks and all the other bottomfeeder amcs that use idiots to “review” suck and real appraisers know it.
63 Edd // Oct 27, 2012 at 7:03 am
In reading through these responses once again I note a divide among us when discussing AMCs. There are those who are primarily concerned about payment and there are those (albeit fewer) that are more focused on other aspects of concern in appraising, such as independence, competency and reliability.
David has made a workable template for rating AMC work and it is clear from the responses that fees are the predominant concern in rating AMCs and most likely that is the way it will remain until appraisers learn how to identify and measure quality in appraising.
As I understand it, only a very small part of our professional concern has to do with whether we meet the standards demanded by AMCs. There are many in our profession who decline AMC work because AMCs will not accomodate our professional standards.
Surely, considering the perspectives of USPAP, regulation and CE , AMCs are not at all qualified to measure appraisal quality. It is not very challenging, although it can be frustrating, to comply with the check lists, but do those checklists have anything significant to do with appraisal quality?
It is legitimate to rate AMCs on the basis of whether they look for quality beyond compliance with their checklists. Perhaps if we can identify AMCs interested in the same kind of quality our standards require of us, all of our other complaints would evaporate.
64 Geez! // Oct 26, 2012 at 11:44 am
Dear Michael R. Imagine for a second if you were able to receive a fee of $450.00 or $500.00 for those appraisals you are doing for $250.00. You could actually make a living as an appraiser and not have to do it on the side, or you could do half as many and make the same money! You, my friend are the problem. All of the reasons I became an appraiser 22 years ago are all gone! Independent schedule, interesting work, relaxed working conditions, respect, money….it was all there and now it’s gone! The AMC’s are the smart ones, they are the entrepreneurs, they have successfully leveraged all of us right under our noses. You know what I mean when I say leveraged by a big company that is getting rich on your back. Isn’t that the reason we all wanted to be a maverick fee appraiser so that we did not have to live in cubicle land be “leveraged” by our bosses.–
65 Michael R // Oct 24, 2012 at 7:28 pm
Well, why would appraisers do a QC work for StreetLinks? These guys probably make half of what you do working the same number of hours, so have some respect. And they have gudilines on how an appraisal should be done and they simply follow the rules. I for one appreciate when they find mistakes in my work - and we all make mistakes once in a while. And remember that AMCs are out there to make money. They are private businesses (or public) and they are in business to make $$ and not to make appraisers make more $$. Its a free country (at least its kind of free so far) and all of us have a choice who to work for.
66 shane // Oct 24, 2012 at 4:32 pm
streetlinks “review staff” are not appraisers but are complete morons. nothing better than someone who isn’t an appraiser telling me how to do my job. btw, their fees are a joke.
67 Bill Haslett // Oct 24, 2012 at 2:46 pm
JVI Solutions an amc company out of St Mary Fl. owes me $5540. I have filed complaint with atty general and consumer services in Fla . What else can I do . They will not return phone calls.
Has anyone else been riped off by JVI , let me know any information about them.
68 Michael R // Oct 24, 2012 at 11:37 am
Well, i am one of those bad guys who do work for $250 and i only worked with StreetLinks so far in post HVCC world. I do take 250$ because this is my part time work, however i’ve been doing it for the last 10 years and i try to do a good job for my clients no matter what the fee is. Now about StreetLinks - i could not have been happier with them. Because i try to do good reports and always be ahead of due date, i get a lot of requests from them. In fact, i get so many that i can barely handle 25% of them. Most of the assignments i accept are close from where i live so that i dont have to go to “bad areas” anymore. The staff is very polite and is ready to help and talk to you when you need them. The pay is always and let me repeat that - always on time and for the last few month they’ve even shorten it for a day and paying on Thursdays now instead of Fridays. When i had to ask to up the fee for complex assignments, they did without any delay or giving me any hard time. I think this company treats its appraisers well. In regards to a fee - a friend of mine working for them started charging 275$ and the work load went down quickly. That is why i prefer to get paid a little less, but get the work regularly. Because i am so happy with them, i haven’t even looked for any other AMC outthere. At this time i can barely handle the work load from them. Overall, i am happy to be working with StreetLinks. That company gets my vote.
69 instructables.com // Oct 22, 2012 at 3:07 am
I was sent here from the Tumblr website
70 Angie // Oct 21, 2012 at 11:36 am
JVI owes me $950 and I keep getting the same excuse — being bought out by a fortune 500 company and paying our appraisers is their highest priority. Finally went to the lender Suntrust and Wells Fargo and both said sorry but there is nothing they can do because they paid JVI for the services. Considering small claims against all three. NREIS owed me for a job from 11/2011 and after several emails and contacting the lender I got paid in 08/2012.
71 SALVO // Oct 19, 2012 at 1:31 pm
I just dont get it. USAG, ULS, LSI ETC ETC. These companies are all accepting fees from 350.00 - 375.00 single family and 475.00 - 500.00 multi. still not the best to make this business worth staying in, but, WHY are these idiot appraisers still accepting fees of 250.00 - 275.00, (valution partners). It was just confirmed to me and I think this is obserd on the idiot appraisers part as well as making progress more difficult for the business….TURN DOWN LOW FEES APPRAISERS!! , THEY WILL PAY IT IF YOU BEGIN TO TURN THEM DOWN, OTHERWISE, GO FIND A JOB AT MCDONALD WHERE YOUR WORTH YOUR TIME!!
72 Vicki // Oct 18, 2012 at 8:09 am
We’ve had numerous requests from AMCs to complete background checks. We are in the process of completing them for one client on the condition that we get a copy of it. We hoped we could use it for others who request this. I tried to use this background check with another AMC and they wouldn’t even look at it. What are other appraisers doing with these requests?
73 Vicki // Oct 17, 2012 at 7:48 am
Our firm received a request to join the fee panel of US Appraisal Group. I read in an earlier posting that there were two positive comments regarding this AMC. My inclination is to decline because they do not list their officers on their website and their BBB file shows 6 complaints with 5 being for payment issues. They appear to be resolved. Does anyone have more feedback for me? Thank you.
74 Blacklisted // Oct 16, 2012 at 6:56 am
Name of AMC: StreetLinks & Solidifi
Assignment: 1004, 1004C, 1025
Fee Expectations: C&R
Turn Time Expectations: 7 days
Unusual Requests: Few
Reporting Requirements: Typical
Flow of business: Very Erratic
Ease of Technology: Simple
Payment: 21 and 45 days
Pressure: None
Other: Everything was quite good for many months as I was receiving 2 to 3 orders a week between the two of them. Then it all stopped about 2 months ago and I have not received an order from either one. Is it coincidence that the last orders I did for each were purchases where the value came in less than the sales price? I think not. Any company can blacklist any appraiser by just not sending them orders anymore. Regulations mean nothing without enforcement.
75 Edd // Oct 15, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Well, I need to revise some of my former comments about NVS. Here they are:
Name of AMC: NVS
Assignment: SFRREO & SFR1004
Fee Expectations: Too Low
Turn Time Expectations: Too Short
Unusual Requests: None, however conditions are lengthy and not well explained. Post delivery requests are unreasonable.
Reporting Requirements: Typical
Flow of business: Erratic
Ease of Technology: Simple
Payment: 45 days
Pressure: Extreme-threatened non-payment
Other: I was told that 45 days to pay is “policy, but one did say she would try to get me paid faster (my policy is due on receipt). I demanded that post delivery contact and requests be kept to a one post delivery contact maximum and so far that is working. I also limited the scope of work with respect to verification. I got some nasty kick back from one employee, but that went up stream and was OK’d.
Recommendation: DO NOT USE. The company threatens no-payment for services completed if you do not comply 100% with all post delivery requests, which can be extensive and burdensome. 45 day pay schedule is too slow givwen demands.
NVC does not like you being in charge of what you do and you must therefore let the assignments pass in order to be USPAP compliant.
76 Edd // Oct 10, 2012 at 8:41 am
This site has been very helpful to me. I had a referral to accept an assignment from one of the AMCs that is offering a “decent fee” but is consistently showing up as “too slow pay” among posters. As one poster queried, “Who cares what the fee is if you end up fighting for months to get paid?” As a result of the contributions on here I have information about this AMC that I cannot get anywhere else and I am in a position to protect myself from its sloppy business practices.
I was also educated by those of you who went through the situations with JVI and AppraisalLoft that “too slow pay” preceded bankruptcy and no pay at all. A glaring omission became apparent.
Not one poster mentioned anything about any AMC expressing concern for the quality of appraisal mandated by USPAP. Not one!
Press on folks! Follow the template developed by David and share your experiences and opinions about these AMCs. Just recently an AMC advertised on here for appraisers to join their panel. I called them. This AMC requires all of the standard stuff from the appraiser, so I asked the representative about the history of the company and its relevant policies. They were completely unprepared to answer anything. If I rejoin the fray, I am considering requiring a Dun & Bradstreet report and BBB recommendation from each AMC as a part of the engagement. That should create controversy, but hopefully we appraisers can present a united front and insist on reasonable conditions.
I know there are still many appraisers out there who conduct business in a predatory fashion and will undercut anybody’s fees and turn times to win business and pretend they can still offer full compliance, but those appraisers are gradually being exposed and purged.
Thank you Mr. Brauner for hosting this blog and initiating this topic of rating AMCs. I have been acting on my hope that AMCs would eventually go away, but here in Colorado they have been regulated instead of eliminated so I guess I’ll face reality and hope for something else.
77 Edd // Oct 10, 2012 at 7:36 am
Here in alphabetical order are the AMCs that had more than one poster comment and with more than one positive comment in the last 300 posts:
E Appraisals (evalonline): 2 positives; 1 no hassle, 1 decent fee
Financial Dimensions: 3 positives; 1 no Hassle, 2 decent fee
Foxtrot: 4 postives; 2 no hassle, 2 decent fee
Imortgage: 2 positives; 2 decent fee
LSI: 2 postive; 1 no hassle, 1 decent fee
NVS: 2 postives; 1 no hassle, 1 decent fee
StreetLinks: 4 positives; 4 decent fee
US Appraisal Group: 2 positives; 2 decent fee
WCCI: 4 positives; 2 no hassle, 2 decent fee
78 Edd // Oct 9, 2012 at 4:53 pm
Here in alphabetical order are the AMCs that had more than one poster comment and with the more than one negative comment in the last 300 posts (AppraisalLoft and JVI are not included):
Altisource: 2 negatives; 2 low fee
Clear Capital: 8 negatives; 6 low fee, 1 slow pay and 1 hassle.
Equifax: 9 negatives; 4 low fee, 1 too slow pay, 2 difficult requirements and 1 hassle.
Es Appraisals
evalonline: 4 negatives; 4 too slow pay.
IRR: 2 negatives, 2 slow pay
ISGN: 7 negatives; 1 too slow pay, 4 low fee, 1 blacklist and 1 hassle
LSI: 17 negatives; 1 too slow pay, 10 low fee and 6 hassle
National Link: 2 negatives; 2 hassle
Norman Hubbard: 6 negatives; 2 too slow pay, 2 low fee and 2 hassle.
NREIS: 4 negatives; 1 too slow pay, 2 slow pay and 1 low fee
NVS: 11 negatives; 1 slow pay, 8 low fee and 2 hassle.
PCV Murcor: 18 negatives; 2 slow pay, 15 low fee and 1 hassle
RELS: 7 negatives; 5 low pay and 2 hassle
RET: 5 negatives; 3 too slow pay, 1 slow pay and 1 low fee.
Service Link: 8 negatives; 3 slow pay, 4 low fee, 1 difficult requirements
Solidifi: 3 negatives; 2 slow pay, 1 hassle
Steelsoft: 2 negatives; 2 too slow pay
StreetLinks: 12 negatives; 2 slow pay, 3 low fee and 7 hassle
TSI: 4 negatives; 2 low fee and 2 hassle
Unity Asset Mgmnt: 2 negatives; 2 hassle.
Valuation Partners: 2 negatives; 1 low fee, 1 hassle
VMG: 2 negatives; 2 hassle
ALERT:
Posters who made comments about JVI and AppraisalLoft said that prior to the demise of both companies payment became less timely (too slow pay). Tomorrow I’ll post the AMCs that got more than one positive comment.
79 Edd // Oct 9, 2012 at 3:38 pm
Tammy,
The blog is about rating AMCs not about USPAP compliance. Are either of those companies AMCs?
If either is and you have experience with them why not rate them along the lines suggtested by the author as follows and everybody can benefit:
Include fee expectations, turn time expectations, unusual requests, flow of business, reporting requirements, ease of technology platform, payment and pressure issues or any other criteria.
80 Tammy Jay // Oct 9, 2012 at 12:44 pm
I agree with a lot of the posts on here but I want to know why is no one talking about Valocity and Forsythe. How have they taken over the industry nation wide and no one is bothered by this? Not only that but how is what they do USPAP Compliant?
81 Edd // Oct 9, 2012 at 12:31 pm
David,
The fault is not with the site or David Brauner. Appraisers are complainers and whiners. There was a limted, easy to understand and follow and relevant set of criteria suggested and one poster in 450+ followed it rather than just complain or criticize. ONE!
Not enough of us appraisers read or think before we run our mouths, end of story.
So back up everybody, give it some thought and contribute the specifics requested about the AMCs you have worked for instead of something useless to everybody else.
82 Retired Appraiser // Oct 9, 2012 at 10:59 am
Edd
As nice as this site is, the format is lacking for rating AMCs. I forwarded my recommendation of a WordPress pluggin to David (who runs this site) a few weeks ago. The pluggin will allow them to enter every AMCs name and allow appraisers to rate them with stars plus post their comments. It allows you to review each AMCs in a compiled fashion.
This type of rating site needs to be separate from a general complaint blog (which we see here).
To tools are available for little or no cost but it will require manpower to entire the initial data.
83 Edd // Oct 9, 2012 at 10:28 am
APPRAISERS CARE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT FEES AND TIMELY PAYMENT AND THAT IS HOW THEY RATE THE AMCS THEY WORK FOR.
I read back through 300 posts to July 30 of 2010. Only one poster, Tammie Daughety, APR 2, 2012 at 6:46 am, stuck to the suggested format. The diversity in responses created a real challenge for tabulation. I decided to compile only the responses that mentioned an AMC by company name and the strengths or weaknesses of that company from their experience. I did not follow the suggested categories because the responses did not. Thirty three companies were mentioned.
Many responses were couched in terms such as “scumbag”, “crook”, “idiot” or “nice.” All of which required my interpretation to fit them into the meanings in the suggested format. I couldn’t do it, therefore I took some liberties with the responses by expressing them into these categories:
Too Slow Pay, Slow Pay, Low Fee, Difficult or high cost requirements, Blacklist, Hassle, No Hassle, Decent Fee, Quick Pay.
The responses were not articulated on a refined scale, but were for the most polarized as good or bad. Not all posters commented on all categories and by far (90%) most responders expressed only negative comments. The most frequently mentioned AMCs were JVI and AppraiserLoft, which were simply not paying appraisers, some of whom were forced into bankruptcy and litigation with bills that were significantly in arrears. I think both of these AMCs are now out of business or nearly so, but a few other AMCs are indicating the slow pay symptoms that preceded collapse of JVI and AppraiserLoft.
Fee Rating and Pay Schedules were by far the most frequently expressed categories and most of those were negative. Many posters expressed the need for regulatory interference to insure timely payment of “full” fees. There were 68 comments of “slow to very slow pay” and another 68 comments of “low fees” while there were only 18 comments of decent fees. There were a significant number of appraisers who expressed satisfactory experience of increasing fees through negotiation.
The categories that spoke to the “hassle factors” in dealing with AMCs received a total of 41 comments, most of them negative.
Due to the diversity that posters have chosen to use in expressing their opinions and experience it is difficult to say with absolute certainty which AMCs are OK to work with and which are not, but I’m going to risk it any way and my next post will include the AMCs by name that are the clearest choices, good and bad. Following that I’m going to emphasize the comments of appraisers who have discovered and use some engagement methods that work, because that is where the understandings must occur.
84 Edd // Oct 9, 2012 at 10:21 am
C’mon guys. The author gave us a format to follow so that this is a resource rather than just another assemblage of useless appraiser rants. Here is what was said:
Include fee expectations, turn time expectations, unusual requests, flow of business, reporting requirements, ease of technology platform, payment and pressure issues or any other criteria.
Once again I have broken my resolve and taken an assignment from an AMC and here is my rating following the format;
Name of AMC: NVS
Assignment: SFRREO & SFR1004
Fee Expectations: Very Low
Turn Time Expectations: Very Short
Unusual Requests: None
Reporting Requirements: Typical
Flow of business: Erratic
Ease of Technology: Simple
Payment: 45 days
Pressure: None
Other: I was told that 45 days to pay is “policy, but one did say she would try to get me paid faster (my policy is due on receipt). I demanded that post delivery contact and requests be kept to a one post delivery contact maximum and so far that is working. I also limited the scope of work with respect to verification. I got some nasty kick back from one employee, but that went up stream and was OK’d.
Recommendation: OK if 45 day pay schedule is OK. I definitely recommend you read the assignment conditions thoroughly and tell them in writing what the scope and assignment conditions are. They may not like you being in charge of what you do and you must therefore be willing to let the assignment pass.
85 Fla Appraiser // Oct 9, 2012 at 8:27 am
We had a situation of non payment by one of the AMCs mentioned here, and it was resolved by contacting the originating bank. Luckily it was a regional bank, not a national bank, and we received payment, pronto, from the AMC. The originating bank was not pleased to find out the AMC was not paying the appraiser, when the AMC had demanded their payment up-front. I have heard this bank switched to another AMC shortly thereafter.
86 Terry Wieser // Oct 9, 2012 at 6:24 am
JVI is the only company that is not paying me. Excuses after excuses. These guys are a bunch of rats. DO NOT work for them. The whole buyouy thing is a bunch of crap they are making up to avoid paying appraisers. You cannot tell me that their executives and employees aren’t getting paid. You also cannot tell me that they didn’t collect these fees upfront! Every single appraiser who has an outstanding fee from them needs to report them to the BBB and their state Dept of Commerce immediately. This company needs to be shut down until they pay their past due accounts.
Also for those of you out there who still accept AMC work for less than your typical fee, shame on you! Get over yourself and charge what you are worth. If you think your time is only worth $200 then by all means work for $200 and quit your complaining! Otherwise, grow a pair, tell them your customary fee and move on! I have raised my fees over the past 4 months simply to cover my increased travel expenses and have more work than I can handle.
87 Joe Appraiser // Oct 9, 2012 at 5:38 am
NEGOTIATE and accept/decline based on your standards - Recently received an order from Valuation Partners for a 1004/216/1007 at a $400 fee with a $10 assignment charge. While $390 is below my reasonable and customary, I accepted. Upon receiving the order, their engagement letter indicated the assignment fee they were collecting was $685. Not sure if there is room to negotiate in all companies, but there seems to be a cushion here!
88 john // Oct 9, 2012 at 12:02 am
FOR A GOOD TIME , TAKE THEIR CALL ON SPEAKERPHONE
Residential RealEstate Review - OMG!
For a good laugh that everyone can enjoy, answer their call on speakerphone so everyone can hear. (If your alone, don’t answer, they’re a complete waste of time).
Talk with a heavy accent (any kind will do) and have fun with them. NONE of them can speak english beyond reading a practiced script.
(funny how a company in Salt Lake has only employees with thick Indian accents - maybe the locals do call their home Salt Lakeee Oootah) Interupt them to ask questions that are off topic. Its HILLARIOUS!
Their usual is “the princely sum of” $250 for a 1004 and $275 for a 1025.
When you quote them your usual fee, they will “try and get approval”. Several more calls over the next couple of weeks asking for quotes on the same property with the same response to your fees. After about a month they will call and say they finally have approval and can now pay your $250 for a 1004 and $275 for a 1025. Only now, its a rush job.
Oh dear god, save us from this nightmare.
In the meantime, have fun with them.
I like the idea of the guy who ditches the orders in the garbage and updates the sites with “in process”.
89 Starlyn Dupree // Oct 8, 2012 at 9:50 pm
GOT Appraisal is a very slow pay. They have all the usual excuses down pat. If you harass them enough you might get paid. I do not recommend anyone waste their time working for these guys.
90 Jon Hammond // Oct 8, 2012 at 8:20 pm
After 12 years in the biz I’m throwing in the towel. Every appraiser has this pay thing wrong. We still think we can fight for our fees. Haha! Can you folks think of another industry that does this? We are not doctors, lawyers or financial planners that can dictate our fees. There’s to many of us, too many cert. appraisers that cheat and take the chance. There are too many that will always work for nothing because they have second incomes from wives, husbands or daddy subsidizes their living costs. I know one appraiser on welfare who just does this for pocket change. This is not a profession any more. After 12 years I give up because things will only get worse.
91 Randy Jonason // Oct 8, 2012 at 7:40 pm
AMC’s that suck? oh, that would be all of them - For One Reason - According to what I have been told, Banks ar forbidden to put Undue pressure on an Appraiser - Heard this before?
Buttttt, there is no regulation in place to prohibit a Bank from putting pressure on an AMC………AND, no regulation for an AMC to put pressure on the Appraiser……
And that my friends is how Little (very Little) Andy Cuomo and Barney Frank get to skin that cat. Same story different day.
But on a serious note - read alot about JVI - very nice. I really wanted to do work for them about 2 years back and started getting work for REO properties locally. Payments went as smooth as a mayonaise sandwich.
Then one day I appraised a house that had a value supported by most every local sale in the market. I got a call that “3 other appraisers” valued the same house $30,000 less????
There was no support for the lower value requested- thats when I knew the nuns weren’t really going to town to buy flour.
Well I did not get any more work and scratched my head for a while - but now — thanks alot JVI! - I love you guys! Just goes to show - MAI designations can also stand for Major Annoying Idiots
92 John Leo // Oct 8, 2012 at 6:14 pm
JVI is the next to go out - They have stated they are working on a merger with a fortune 500 company - Most likely Clear Capital - won’t that be a joy !!!
93 Bryan Knowlton // Oct 8, 2012 at 4:56 pm
This is definitely one blog post you will not want to miss when researching what AMCs you want to work with. Unfortunately we all know that AMCs are here to stay, fortunately there are some great AMCs to work with.
This list will help get rid of the bad ones! Thanks WorkingRE
94 Edd // Oct 8, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Should have taken the time to read the 445 posts preceeding mine. A lot of appraisers have shared their opinions. It seems no one has tabulated them, which is just exactly what I’m going to do. And then I’ll publish it here from whence it came.
I will try my best to use the same rating points used by the various appraisers. It seems like it boils down to use/do not use with no middle, but it will fall where it falls. A lot of appraisers are sharing thweir expereinces. I’ll try to be as specific as the contributorsa have been.
It sure looks like you guys in the busy markets are competing with appraisers who will do anything for anybody for little or nothing and that makes holding your ground difficult.
But, is that an AMC problem or an appraisal industry problem? I mean if you have appraisers who haven’t got enough pride in what they do to demand decent fees and treatment it is going to hurt all of us.
95 Carol // Oct 8, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Just wanted to add that NREIS has owed us for appraisals done in January and while they claim they are not in bankruptcy was told they have a board meeting one a month to decide what appraiser they will pay next. So far we have not. So caution to other appraisers on this company.
96 Edd // Oct 8, 2012 at 1:04 pm
Good idea, AMC rating, but where’s the ratings? I can’t find them. I’ve been thinking even prior to HVCC that AMCs just pretty much rate in one category and that is bad, but my friends keep saying there are good ones so I keep looking.
I have worked with one that has some pretty helpful and insightful people working in it and I refuse any quick turns, low fees or hastle from them so I’m not sure if some of their good is because of me taking control of the stuff that is important to my work.
Anyway, if you decide what you will work for and put up with and for how much and don’t expect them to take care of you this bunch is pretty good to work with.
Name of the company is Nations Valuation Services, and I’m now working on their slow pay “policy.” I was told slow pay is “policy” and apparently Moses had that etched in stone at some point since everybody I’ve talked to about the slow pay just keeps quoting “policy” as if it was signed by our forefathers prior to the Constitution.
Anyway if you can afford to finance their “policy” they are OK to work for and I’d recommend them.
However, they do offer work from the BIG banks that brought us the great recession that can’t be solved.
Why don’t we come up with a five point rating that includes the kinds of demands we find compromise our work as well as the amount of respect they show the profession and their discerning selection of lender clientelle?
I want to work only for AMCs and clients who consider an appraisal as critical knowledge and value added to their purpose.
eddgillespie@yahoo.com
97 David // Oct 8, 2012 at 10:41 am
JVI owes me 2 from March and April 2012 and 1 from August hits 60 days tomorrow. Shame on me for not staying on top of past due invoices this summer. Tomorrow I get to file a complaint with TALCB for JVI not adhering to the Texas AMC regulation of paying appraisers within 60 days.
98 dave // Oct 8, 2012 at 10:25 am
For any of you have issues with Es Appraisal Services, I called today (10/08/12) a holiday for some. He has his office phone James Monroe at 954-849-2544 forwarded to his cell now. If you haven’t been paid call it NOW. His Admin Secretary called back within five minutes. Must have interuppted his golf game.
99 Brent // Oct 8, 2012 at 10:18 am
JVI solutions is owned by a MAI appraiser who also is the a member of the Appraisal Institue. I emailed him directly with no response of course. JVI does not even answer the phone. I suggest every appraiser look this man up through the AI and start harassing him for payment. It is his company, do a google search and you will find him as the owner of JVI Solutions.
100 David // Oct 8, 2012 at 7:44 am
Bottom line: we all know AMCs are in this to make money. However, it appears there are appraisers in this who could care less about what they’re paid. One guy got it right. This site has generated nothing more than a bitch session from which there are no results. The fact is, the only people who can change this is…..you got it…..appraisers. One appraiser wrote about a union, having representation, etc. That’s the path we have to take if we want to be prosperous and in control of our profession. I’m a member of NCPAC, the NC Professional Appraiser Coalition. Their agenda certainly isn’t mine. State appraiser organizations will not accomplish what is needed, or hasn’t so far (after ten years). Prior to becoming an appraiser, I was in manufacturing management. I have never seen a profession that allows others to dictate how they run their business and what they charge for services, until I became an appraiser and HVCC took effect. Appraisers who allow this to happen are misguided, unprofessional individuals who don’t understand the functions of business. An organization that will support our independence, rights to operate free of coercion, rights to control our future and be prosperous, is exactly what is needed. Call it a union or otherwise, the time is right for challenging those who have sought to control our profession. I’m more than willing to get involved with such an endeavor. I’m sure there are others who are, as well. Write me and let’s discuss how to get started. I don’t won’t individuals writing just to have a bitch session. I want constructive writings that are meaningful from those who think there is a way to correct the problems we face today. davidcovington@charter.net
101 Staci // Oct 8, 2012 at 6:11 am
We ARE starting to unite as appraisers! In Ohio we have started a grass roots organization called the Ohio Coalition of Appraisal Professionals aka OCAP. Modeled after Illinois’ ICAP. Other States have them too. Basically we get together and get on the same page. I am the President of our local Chapter (NE Ohio OCAP). At our last meeting we had our State Legislator to speak specifically regarding an AMC Bill. These meetings here are organized by me cold calling other appraisers in my area and inviting them for a breakfast or happy hour meeting. These meetings are going Great and we are getting a lot accomplished. Some of which include sharing tips on who pays and who doesn’t. I personally fired ServiceLink and all affiliate AMC’s that use that HotSpot uploading system due to taking SO long to upload (45min+/-). Also Equifax due to the background check they expect ME to pay for. If they want it, they can pay for it! We even share Clients who pay well and on time, etc, etc. So get organized in your State and form your own Coalition or do some browsing to find out if you already have one! We NEED to take back control of our own industry! The alternative will be we all end up like “Sean” in the lower post.
102 Ken // Oct 7, 2012 at 9:39 am
Three months ago I did an Appraisal for USRES. Haven’t been paid yet because they said they cancelled the Appraisal Order two weeks after they received it. ??
103 George // Oct 6, 2012 at 11:31 pm
Wow … I agree with absolutely everything everyone is saying here. I worked for Equifax and one night at 2 am while working at my computer and after a particularly bad week with them, I thought I was having a heart attack … got myselft to the emergency ward. It was a bad anxiety attack but it scared me enough to re-evaluate the situation. Like another appraiser here said, when they wanted us to pay for a back ground checks, I said enough. HVCC cut our fees in half but nowhere did they cut our costs to stay in this field. We’re not getting paid extra to do the 1004MC form and now they’ve added UAD … our pay per hour just keeps going down and down. I’m not a fan of unions but I’d support one here. It’s just going to get worse unless we some how merge together because the organizations aren’t helping. AI is mostly for commercial appraisers and none of the others have enough clout or money to organize. The only thing we have going for us is that appraisers are leaving the field and no one is coming into it (like who wants a career that after 20 years you still work for minimum wage with no benefits?). Supply and Demand will work for us but we still need representation. Don’t know about the other software companys, but Alamode has spent over $1m on going to Washington and keeping up with changes. If the appraisal field dries up who will buy appraisal software ? Actually I have a good group of AMCs/clients now and I sure don’t miss those ‘comp checks’.
104 g o // Oct 6, 2012 at 4:19 pm
JVI owes me $1,000 from Dec 2011….
105 Stefano // Oct 6, 2012 at 2:48 pm
JVI owes me over $5,000 and does not even care.
106 Southern California Appraiser // Oct 6, 2012 at 12:59 pm
ServiceLink what a joke I don’t know if they how pay because I won’t work for $225 in the Los Angeles Metro Area. The phone monkey tried to tell me that that is a standard for according to fee surveys THEY have done. ERR did he mean what we are forcing down your throat. I explained to James that some of my clients are AMC’s but the all pay over $325 and the one that pays $325 has never called me for a clarification or reconsideration of value in 4 years. So say no to anyone that expects something for next to nothing.
107 Sean // Oct 6, 2012 at 12:18 pm
I’ve worked as an appraiser in Virginia for the past 7 years now and after reading all these posts, I’m not sure everyone is on the same page regarding how this industry works…I work for a large appraisal firm. I do not get to set the fee schedule. I do not set the volume. I am expected to do the work for whatever the company takes as a fee….that being said, the fees we get from such AMC’s as National Link(PNC), Equifax, Servicelink(JP MOrgan Chase), and Nations Valuation Services average $225 for a conventional 1004/1073 and $250-275 for an FHA. Some AMC’s refuse to pay trip fees. Others pay $25-50 for a trip fee. There is no negotiation. We’ve had orders cancelled on us for asking for fee increases to normal $300-350 range for complex properties. They just outright cancel and go to the next firm who will do it for $225. Again, that being said, guess what? I personally receive 60% of those paltry fees for doing the whole assignment! So that means I average $135 to $150 per order. We are also required to pay for EVERYTHING ourselves. E/O insurance, MLS fees, Software costs, etc. with no 401k, no insurance offered, nothing in the form of security.
It would be impossible to leave the company as the minute you do a “bad” appraisal on your own, you get blacklisted. I can’t tell you how many times JP Morgan has blacklisted appraisers in my office and won’t review it for at least 6 months after, for cases such as a low value.
This industry has become one of the worst careers I could ever imagine. Then this begs the next question….how can you change careers? No one will take a person who has been an appraiser for so long into a good paying job (we are talking non-entry level of at least 50k) because we have not had any experience doing anything else……we have been typecast so to speak for being appraisers.
So to read all these posts about how everyone is getting $300-350 per order is ridiculous and I’d love to know how…..just handling scheduling orders and revision requests can sometimes take from 8am till 3pm….so what time is left to go out and appraise?
I have been so frustrated with having to work 6 days a week and 18 hours a day and still be paycheck to paycheck that i am just doing the inspections now for on average $57-82 per order and someone else types the report in the office……how the mighty have fallen!
I guess the only positive is that I always get paid….you see that’s the kicker…my office pays every 41 days!!!!! Good luck to everyone.
108 Still Here // Oct 6, 2012 at 12:01 pm
Nice to find this site. My experience is much the same as all of you. I am finding that due to the appraiser shortage I can now pick and choose my assignments, fees and turn times…that’s a change I can live with! It’s great to be able to turn away three times the number of jobs than I accept. I am quick to remind abusive AMCs of this. Just fired Equifax for requiring back ground checks. Told them to go to hell too, felt good! Stay true to yourself and remember the law of supply and demand. Most of us are aging, don’t want to train our replacements and want out of the industry. They need us much more than we need them. I have never accepted low fees and am glad that the appraisers that did are among those that have left/are leaving the field.
109 Tony Philbrick // Oct 6, 2012 at 9:10 am
You guys must be mistaken according to the government the Dodd/Frank and HVCC acts are doing great jobs. Just joking I do not accept any appraisal orders from the low paying companies and everyone needs to stand together to stop the abuse we are getting by a bunch or dirt bag companies. I get paid my regular fees and in some cases even higher than what I was charging and get requests to do appraisal where they want everything but blood and want to pay $175 or $ 200 and then they think they have the right to demand a reason why you can’t take their work. it is not the lenders looking for cheaper fees it is the AMCs trying to make more money. IIn my case they get what they pay for and I am very busy. I did work for a credit union and they were giving me a run around about getting paid and I sent a certified letter to each homeowner I did work for and told them I was going to take them to small claims court and garnishee their wages and they contacted the lender and in 3 days I had a check for the full amount I was owed. If they don’y pay take the homeowner to court you are entitled to the money.REMEMBER EVERY ONE NEEDS TO BE UNITED TO STOP THE ABUSE FROM THE GOVERNMENT AND THE AMCS
110 Victor Novitski // Oct 6, 2012 at 8:57 am
Since the “AMC rush” I’ve learned a few tricks I’d like to pass on to other appraiser’s. I’m the only appraiser in my office, therefore, these tricks might not suit everyone. On “slow-pays” or “no-pays” call them and give them five working days to send a check, If they do not send a check tell the AMC that you will call the borrower and lender directly to seek payment and tell them you will name the AMC, the borrower and the lender in the collection process. If no check comes, follow through, and name all three in the collection process at the local magistrate. This has always worked for me and usually does not go any further than calling the borrower and lender directly. As far as additional comp requests, I always DEMAND the AMC, and/or, the lender e-mail me a signed letter, printed on the AMC or lender’s letterhead as to the reason they want additional comps. This usually ends the calls for additional comps from a problem AMC. Another ploy I use is to submit the report a five to ten days after the due date. This induces the AMC to quickly pass the appraisal to the lender and this also helps to reduce an AMCs request for additional comps or information. The AMC will threaten to drop you or not give you anymore work, however, this has only backfired on one occassion in many. The best practice for a “Lone-Wolf” appraiser is to find a few good AMCs whom pay fairly, and quickly, and just work for them. Stand up, and refuse to be pushed around!!! Bad AMCs will not continue to exist if they cannot find appraisers to do the work!!!
111 Debby Watson // Oct 6, 2012 at 7:32 am
Unfortunately I got sucked in by JVI also… I quit sending them statements and calling… sent Invoices certified mail to the lenders…. gave them a specific time to pay or I am filing liens on the properties…… we will see what happens…..
112 Dave // Oct 6, 2012 at 5:17 am
IN MY EXPERIENCE, BAD AMC’S ARE:
DATAQUICK, ISGN, JVI, NVS,SPRINGHOUSE.
JVI TOPS THE LIST FOR NON-PAYMENT. ISGN IS RUN BY PEOPLE IN INDIA. ISGN AND DATAQUICK HAVE THE LOWEST FEES . NVS SENDS EMAILS FOR YOU TO UPDATE THE WEB SITE 4-6 TIMES A DAY AND THEN CALLS. THEY GET THE AWARD FOR THE BIGGEST PIA.
GOOD, FULL FEE AMC’S ARE:
IMORTGAGE SERVICES, DARTAPPRAISALS.COM,QUALITY VALUATION SERVICES, NREIS
113 Gary Troescher // Oct 5, 2012 at 10:10 pm
Well guy’s lotta good comments but when the Federal Government Agency owes you over 5,000 in appraisal fees for a year, and still getting jerked around by the SBA yes thats right the SBA owes 5,000 to me in appraisals done in bulk over a year ago, I have a case number for the past 8 months from the Federal Attorney’s Generals Office i follow up every two weeks and no answer, contacted the local SBA office no answer, Contacted the Main SBA Office no answer, looks like retainer time, yep their 5,000 dollar bill is going to cost them over 20,000 after attorneys fees with retainer fee.
114 Bert Craytor // Oct 5, 2012 at 10:01 pm
Good advice from a number posts, turn down or at least DRAG your feet on low fees. Assume that over the years RELS has developed a number of strategies to get appraisers to work for lower fees. We don’t know how they do it, for sure. It is getting more difficult for them to pull the strings. And they certainly need the cooperation of at least some appraisers.
115 Rico Gardiner // Oct 5, 2012 at 8:47 pm
After 27 years in the business I was finally forced out because I refused to accept the slave wages of LSI altho all AMC’s are bad news. The only thing I can say is F—k all AMC’s and get some guts by not accepting their shit fees.
116 MARC SEIGLEMAN // Oct 5, 2012 at 8:18 pm
top two bottom scum sucking bottom feeders
1) PCV murcor = I fired their ass
2) Clear Capital= accepted their last 5 jobs and threw the assignments in the garbage while updating them that they would be in the next day
3) EZ Appraisals= they think we work for free
117 john // Oct 5, 2012 at 6:44 pm
just did an inspection here in San Francisco. Borrowers had 3 appraisals performed recently by 3 different AMC’s.
One appraiser was from Gilroy (about 110 mi. so.) One was from Davis (about 125 mi. ea) and one was from Petaluma (about 100 mi. no.). Values were $1,600,000 and $2,150,000 and $3,200,000
I SHIT YOU NOT. The borrowers forked up $2,475 for this garbage. Given the lenders involved, the appraisers got about $850 for all 3 appraisals.
Value is actually $2.7M - my fee $525
You still think “restraint of trade” is a good idea?
118 amc ratings??? // Oct 5, 2012 at 6:32 pm
This is no ratings site, just a bunch of rants. Please provide something of value, not just another place for people to post a complaint. Maybe a stack ranking of AMC’s or 1 to 5 stars, something like google ratings for AMC’s. Just a thought!
119 wild blue // Oct 5, 2012 at 6:24 pm
William Fall Group is another one to watch. About $140 for a 1004, and this is the new, improved fee! 24 hr turn time. Endless “stips”.
I am now getting $325 - 350 for a 1004 with a week turn time - so glad I saw the light and told WFG to go away. You should walk too.
120 Ronald Keeler // Oct 5, 2012 at 6:01 pm
I don’t know about you, but it takes me a full 8 to 10 hour day to complete and appraisal from the time I receive the order until I submit it. My minimum fee is $450.00. I recently had to sever a couple of clients because I was overloaded with work. I will take a job only if I can meet the timeliness guidelines. since I work completely alone, no secretary, no assistant, out of my home ofice, my overhead is fairly low. I average 22 or 23 assignments per month, month in and month out, if orders come in in a bunch, I turn some down. Pace yourself, work smart and there is no reason you can’t make a nice living. I’m past retirement age so I’m careful to limit the load. 250-260 reports a year is just fine in mysituation and frankly I make more money now than when I had staff appraisers and support staff. Very little overhead. aside from vehicle, insurance, software and REALTOR-MLS Dues. I just declined a client who wanted me to sign a contract which indemnifies them from any repsonisbility in the appraisal process. You’ve got to know your needs and have the intestinal fortitude to simply say no.
121 Larry Hobbs // Oct 5, 2012 at 5:49 pm
Performed an appraisal for ISGN in April of 2012. After revising my report some five or six times because “the system won’t accept this character, word, phrase” etc. and refusing to alter my comments to accommodate their preferences, to send them a copy of my social security card and to send an IRS form that is not required and is inappropriate for my business/status, I have yet to be paid. This is the ONE and ONLY appraisal I will perform for ISGN.
122 Mike // Oct 5, 2012 at 5:32 pm
Equifax 175-225 pay 60 days
Servicelink 225-300 pay 45 days
LSI 190 pay 60+ days
TSI 400-500 pay 3 weeks
Axis 380 pays 5th of the month
123 dave // Oct 5, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Es Appraisal Services out of Florida. They slow payed the first few orders and now have totally quit responding to our invoices for a $650 fee. Any luck with OREA in California on getting their AMC Registration suspended. I know Arizona doesn’t put up with this nonsense from AMC’s
124 Allen // Oct 5, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Sorry, David R. Gordon, but your criticism of Dart Appraisal just doesn’t hold water. Dart has been in business since 1993, and I’ve worked on and off for them since 2004. A company won’t stay in business for nearly 20 years if they don’t pay. They ALWAYS pay regularly. In terms of the HUD REOs, that is paid directly to the Appraiser by the M&M contractor (not PEMCO.) Dart doesn’t pay appraisers for the HUD REOs, the M&M contractor does directly. Yes, that particular M&M has well known payment issues, but that isn’t Dart’s fault. All my order through Dart are paid regularly and timely. In 8 years, I’ve never not been paid from them for their work. Now, the M&M contractor they work with, that’s a different story, but again Dart isn’t responsible for paying for HUD REOs.
125 Mike Schear // Oct 5, 2012 at 2:29 pm
Your delusional if you think fees are changing on a permanent basis. The business model of the AMC is to reduce appraisal fees by exposing us to pure price competition. Is this a more rational system? Why aren’t AMC paid a fixed fee or a percentage of the total appraisal cost? How does this current AMC carpetbagger arrangement reduce financial risk to the system? The powerful banking lobby created this recipe to create the illusion of increasing appraisal independence while tapping into our fees and then ultimately to destroy the profession to force the system to rely on nothing but AVMs. We need strong regulation to keep the jackels at bay but government is now just another commodity that can be bought in the market place. Welcome to the next financial crisis where their is no recovery.
126 Richard Maloy // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:30 pm
Just a few points;
1. Don’t ever let the good feeling of being awarded an assignment outweigh the good feeling of receiving a (good check). Do not take anymore work from these companies.
2. We used to require payment up front from slow pay clients
3. Don’t believe that the State bonding requirement is your salvation. They amount to peanuts when you think of how many state appraisers are going to file a claim. Lobby your legislature to increase the bonding requirement to something meaningful.
4. Liens are a no go. They are statutory liens meaning they are instituted in State Code. Workman and material liens protect construction workers and material suppliers. Real Estate brokers in some states have had a lien law put in place, but appraisers have been asleep at the wheel and did not get invited into the broker lien legislation. And then, who pays the price if a deal doesn’t close, the owner? He didn’t order the appraisal.
5. the best pressure would be put on the actual beneficiary of the appraisal, the client.
127 Chris SRA // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:28 pm
Interesting read on AMC’s. We are lucky enough to have only one that we work with regularly, but we do not work FOR them. Rather, they serve the function that AMC’s were designed for in my opinion. They serve as an assignment vehicle. Orders are posted to our email and we accept or decline within 24 hours. We are paid by the lender client with whom we have a fee schedule. When the AMC was engaged, the lender client raised our fee by the $15 we are charged to ship the report. It’s our only cost. The lender client pays a fee of $40 per case. This is the model that can work, and it’s actually an improvement over having to deal with the lender client’s personnel directly. The model that most of the descriptions I’ve read here describe is one where the AMC is collecting retail fees and then purchasing appraisal services wholesale, or at low bidder auction. Reminds me of the scene in “On The Waterfront” where the shape-up boss hires only the favored few from the crowd of day workers on the docks. And they have to kick back to get hired (same as a reduced fee). As to the big banks like Wells and BOA, we’ve had to let them go, even though they call daily (Landsafe has my cell #)!
128 David R. Gordon // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Many of you commented on AppraisalLoft and I certainly had my bad experience with them and cut them off. They have now beeen taken over by The Appraiser Zone (owned by Settlement One). Settlement One has always paid ok in the past, but because of my past experience with AppraiserLoft, I will be cautious. They usually pay decent fees, but we’ll just have to see how well they pay now.
129 David R. Gordon // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:21 pm
As for RELS, I used to really get a lot of work from them for Wells Fargo…now it seems they only want to pay the minimum fees and are willing to call appraiser 5-6 counties away to get them. I still hold out for my usual fees and they are sometimes willing to pay the fee if they can’t get anyone else any sooner or if the property is in an area practically nobody covers. The good thing is they have always paid great. So, I just quote my fee and turn time and although I don’t get as many orders as I used to, I still occasionally get orders from them and have very little problem with their underwriters or with their pay. One word of caution…do not ever do an inspection or final inspection on a Wells Fargo agent’s request. Always insist on the order coming from RELS or you will never be paid for it. I’ve been burnt 2-3 times on this, but never again!
130 mike // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:12 pm
How about putting a mechanic lien on the property then create a form letter and send it to the borrower expalaining why? Seems like it would be cheap but I haven’t looked into it. That will piss homeowner off and they will go to the lender and complain which might do something. If anyone ever tried to sell the house they wont be able to without paying the debt or negotiating with you. Might be a pain for a lot of orders but if you can do a form letter and its cheap enough it could work. Even sending a form letter to the borrower telling them you will do it if you aren’t paid by the lender might be enough to get a bunch of calls. Just an idea because a letter and a stamp is a pretty cheap way to get things moving.
131 David R. Gordon // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Another AMC to be a little leary of is Dart Appraisal. They order many of the FHA foreclosure appraisals and while they eventually paid up, I had to threaten turning them into FHA/HUD and the Better Business Bureau. Appraisals were up to 6 months old. PEMCO, which also handles FHA foreclosures, pays really quick with no problems. Dart Appraisal has almost cut me off completely, but now that they don’t owe me $4,000, I really don’t care.
132 Adele Schnabel // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:11 pm
I have read all of the above (or most of it anyway), and we all agree (except one lucky guy) that we are being screwed. So, instead of complaining — what can we do? We need a voice. I will be happy to start it, but I need some support. We need to rally together and start making some noise. A home purchase or a refinance is a major undertaken. it should not be handled by idiot appraisers who believe they are worth $5.00/hr. What and how can we do this? I am game.
133 Ed S // Oct 5, 2012 at 1:09 pm
With the amount of work I was getting, I recently increased my fees with some of the lower clients, ie: PCV. I had no problem increasing my fee 25% with them. If you are doing work for them, increase your fees, because they wont do it unless you ask.
134 Staci // Oct 5, 2012 at 12:58 pm
I say to be fair that we should be paid by via autmatic deposit with 48 hours of the after the appraisal upload. After all we are expected to produce a report within 48 hours. They should be required to request any revisions within 48 hours and pay according to their own standards! Either that our we go back to collecting our fees at the door & the AMC collects their fees from the Lender. I would prefer the latter; Repeal HVCC!!
135 Staci // Oct 5, 2012 at 12:42 pm
I had been doing business with ES Appraisal Services for years, who offers good fees, even upto $550 for a SFR REO order. BUT after waiting more than 90 days & no response from them I was forced to go to their Client directly: Chase. I was able to track down the proper Chase department via my local HUD branch. Within 24 hours ES contacted me with little excuses accept that they only pay within 30 days with states that have AMC regulation to mandate such. Within 3 days I was paid in full, and apparently have now been put on their “Do not use” list as I have not received an order since. With promising those kinds of fees I’m sure it wasn’t hard to replace me. A bit of advice is to ALWAYS GOOGLE a NEW AMC Client before accepting orders. There currently is a lot of appraiser’s who still have not been paid by ES and are posting it! I was one of the fortunate ones. In the meantime I still believe that a SFR1004/MC should be $450 all day long! By now we are long over due for a pay raise!!!
136 Here's a thought // Oct 5, 2012 at 12:31 pm
This may not work in some parts of the country, but fortunately I am in a rural location that is suffering an extreme shortgage of appraisers. I get full fee orders ONLY and refuse to work for less. If someone asks if I will take less, they receive a flat out “NO”. I maintain a list of lenders and AMCs that I decline all orders from. The reasons range from rude/threatening behaviour, to stupid incessant requests to payment issues. A large GSE and top 3 bank are on that list! I also have a list of AMCs that have a $100 PIA surcharge added to their fee quote for being pests and high maintenance - you know that type, calling 5 times a day, everyday for status, sending multiple needless QA revisions on every order etc.. if they are time suckers, they will pay extra for that. It was a leap of faith to jump out there on a limb and hold my ground after those lean HVCC years, but I do not regret it one bit. I receive more work then I can manage, I pick and choose my clients and orders, and I frequently receive $800 to $1,500 for “Rush” orders because my normal ETAs are typically booked out a month. I have learned to value my time and that no-one is going to just automatically rush in and hand me the money I wish to have for an order - I have to ask for it and not settle for less. I don’t whine about low pay or crappy clients - I tell them what I want to be paid, and they can take it or leave it. If they give me any grief, they go on “the list”. If they can do it, so can I. I am a professional, and I demand respect as a professional. If a client does not want a professional - they can go right on down the road and pick the cheap and easy guy - then they both get what they deserve. I just wish that more appraisers adopted the same set so that the profession could repair it’s pride and reputation and push the sleazy AMCs out for good or teach them to behave at least.
137 MIKE GUYTON // Oct 5, 2012 at 12:24 pm
unpaid 3000 by jvi, same ole bs, about being bought out/tired of it,about to sue them
138 Cali Certified Res Appraiser // Oct 5, 2012 at 12:22 pm
Ok, I want to sue the pants off of JVI and their so-called fortune 500 company! They owe me over $7000 in appraisals I completed through feb-march. That’s 5 months of mortgage for my family and I haven’t been paid since February. My home went into foreclosure waiting on promised JVI payments. I have direct emails from march stating that I’ll get paid within 2 weeks, then email says within 30 days, then within 90 days, then “were not making anymore payment until the fortune 500 company acquires us” … ridiculous! shame on you JVI. Their staff in Florida is still getting paid and just because you are being acquired does not mean you stop payments, that’s a total breach of contract. ALL LIES!
JVI was my major client and paid fair fees up until December of 2011. That’s when things changed drastically and they started being dishonest. I’ve had attorneys look into their so-called acquisition with no luck. Is there even a buyout or are they just stringing us along???
I’m tired of being raped and disrespected in this field. I’m tired of other appraisers negativity. “well you shouldn’t of completed so much work without getting paid.” Most AMC’s are net 30-60 smarty pants appraiser, so you can complete alot of work in that time frame. Whats really unfair is before you even complete an appraisal they get paid directly from the bank $450 for a 1004, then they send the order to you for $200-265, profiting $250. Then they leverage your money over a 30-60 day period for their business, homes and yachts $250 x standard 500 per month =125,000 per month!(I worked at an AMC for 3 weeks before I was just too disgusted). I completed all work within a 30 day period but yet haven’t gotten paid in over 8 months! Give me a break! Wheres the Feds? Wheres the the regulation? Wheres all these boards that’s supposed to protect us? Wheres the picket signs? This has gone on long enough and while reading these posts i realize that I’m not the only ONE and it’s not just my state or city that’s being affected. There are hundreds if not thousands of appraisers in the same boat. So what are we going to do about it? I have a couple lawyers looking into their surety bond and will blast the information as soon as its available.
ps. to top everything off I’m really out of money considering I had to pay Appraisal Port fees to submit all those reports! smh
139 Kevin E. Talbott, SRA // Oct 5, 2012 at 11:30 am
Stop accepting low fees. I for one do not take low fees, and I am vey busy. I know for a fact that the old adage is true, “you get what you pay for”. Lenders like Flagstar and Chase already have a do not use list. All of the lenders need to follow suit and will eventually. In the mean time, stand your ground. If your work is good, get what its worth. By the way, Clear Capital, JVI, ISGN, Transcon and NREIS are not good companies to work for. Dont accept work from those companies, they are low fee, not customary.
140 Diane Forsberg // Oct 5, 2012 at 11:27 am
JVI owes my company about $2,200. I live in Oregon and out AMC legislation requires AMC’s to post a bond for just these instances. I have made complaint to our appraiser board and made a claim against their bond. Check and see if your state has this kind of legislation. If not, what are you waiting for?
141 Kyle // Oct 5, 2012 at 10:52 am
Where is the protection for us? We basically are being told what we get paid, when we get paid and who we can get paid by! but yet there is nothing that makes sure we do get paid! When I was collecting at the door we did not have this problem. To be honest this is one of the main reasons I am getting out of the business after 15 years. You never know if you are actually going to get paid for your work.
142 Sherry D // Oct 5, 2012 at 10:48 am
You are mostly right about PCV Murcor. However, when they call or assign me something for $225 or $230, I always counter-offer for my usual fees - $300 to $350 depending on difficulty. Sometimes I actually get the assignment! The reason I have kept them is that they have always paid me within a +/- 30-day period and do pay the higher fees if they can’t get an appraiser who accepts low-balling.
You know, if we don’t like the fees, we shouldn’t take the assignment. If we would all do that, the fees would HAVE to go up.
143 Vicki // Oct 2, 2012 at 12:36 pm
Jennifer,
My firm has unpaid invoices with JVI as well. I have filed complaints with the Department of Commerce in my State and the Department of Business and Professional Regulation in Florida. I have demanded payment from their client (the intended user of the reports completed) in writing with a Return Receipt Requested. If all else fails, I will take them to conciliation court in their county. Whatever you do, don’t beleive them when they tell you they intend to pay. There are too many unpaid appraisers. Good luck to all of us!
144 Jennifer Merring // Oct 2, 2012 at 10:18 am
JVI owes my company over $5,000. I too would like to know what we can do to collect. Any ideas would be great! What if it was reversed? The bank pays the appraiser and we pay the management company what is fair.
145 Jack Schlenk // Sep 12, 2012 at 1:33 pm
Illinois has the AMC act as of 01/01/2012. It will be late 2013 before the dust settles and the the ducks are in a row. Maybe then the Illinios appraiser(s) can file their complaints.
146 CBR // Sep 7, 2012 at 12:53 pm
Mike, I agree about PCV Murcor. While almost every other AMC has adjusted their fees up to something reasonable and customary these slimeballs continue to be well below almost every other AMC. Scumbags!!!
147 Retired Appraiser // Sep 6, 2012 at 6:36 am
To answer your question Steve, the answer is NO. There are no other business owners or “professionals” on planet earth who are willing to work for such insane fees. The majority of residential appraisers today are working for 25% less than they were in 1992.
Show me another business professional who is willing to work for the same fee they worked for in 1992 and I will show you a fool. Show me one that’s willing to take a pay cut from the fee they worked for 20 years ago and I will show you someone who needs to be taken to the vet and put out of their misery.
Now I have an honest question for all appraisers:
Why should U.S. homeowners trust these individuals to put a value on their home when they can’t even put fair valuation on their own time?
Answer: Post HVCC appraisers are not to be trusted.
148 Steve Vaughn // Sep 4, 2012 at 12:03 am
It is appraisers like Counter (if it is an appraiser) that will keep the fees low. The appraisal industry has had the same basic fee’s since I got in the business in 1993. Now due to the AMC BS the fees have gone down while the fees to keep and maintain your licenses have increased. Are there any other independent business that has not had a fee or pay increase in almost 20 years?
149 Steve Vaughn // Sep 3, 2012 at 11:50 pm
Equifax is the biggest pain to work for. They have so many unreasonable rules. For example if a report is rejected (and most are), they want the revised report back within 2 hours. Reports must be in within 48 hours or they start to charge you a $25 dollar a day reduction in fees. If the client is a no show they do not pay trip fees. If the bank does not do the loan they will pay you half the fee even though you have done all the work. Their fees are about $100 to $150 below normal market fee’s. I will no longer accept assignments from this company and suggest people think real hard before you do.
150 Mike // Aug 31, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Beware of PVC Murcor - they are lowballing everyone and they may or may NOT pay you for your work. One of the absolute worst AMCs out there!
151 Justin Kiesz // Aug 30, 2012 at 9:19 am
I have made a formal complaint with the State of Washington Dept of Prof Licensing. They manage the AMCs. Told They would “look into it.” Not holding my breath. They have also ignored my request for the Name of the insurer that posted JVI’s Surety Bond. Not sure why. Isn’t that the point of a Surety Bond? To pay those harmed? Also, no word yet from any of the actual lenders that the work was completed for. I sent them all demands as well. Anyhow, I am keeping on it and will post if/when anything happnes.
152 Bruce Botwin // Aug 28, 2012 at 7:51 am
Ron Nation is the owner and CEO and legal proceedings must be started. A class action suit or individual suits.
153 Debby Watson // Aug 24, 2012 at 3:20 pm
Needless to say I have been sucked in by the JVI people and having no luck on reaching them by phone or email…. maybe we all need to go to their office and sit there till they write us a check! Does anybody know if we can file liens on the properties appraised? Scum sucking #&%holes should not mess with Texas appraisers… I am out for my money and will not stop till I get it! We work hard, jump through hoops to make the underwriters/lenders happy, putting in useless comments, repeated several times…. The reports that they owe me for are complex rural properties that took 3 times as long to research and type….. they have no regard for the appraiser and they are suppossed to be appraiser owned? Pieces of donkey dung in my book!
154 David Morris // Aug 22, 2012 at 9:28 am
Beware of JVI, similar to what some of you have said they have outstanding invoices with my firm for nearly $6,000. Thy were communicating with us but now they are not. I have left messages and and sent numerous emails. Does anyone have a handle on how to get a hold of them or come after them legally?
155 Richard Carmichael // Aug 20, 2012 at 10:32 am
Solidifi is slow pay and thinks nothing of canceling a case after you’ve worked it up. Only if you bitch will you get paid anything. Plus they send you an order with a discounted fee and expect you to respond immediately or it get reassigned - I’ve seen cases disappear in as little as 2 hours. Royal pain to deal with.
Another that I’ll never work for again is Independent Settlement Services. They sent me a retrospective field review, rush of course. I went out that day, and when I get back I get a cancelation notice. So I billed for an inspection- get a SNOTTY note back from them. Their client is FANNIE MAE. I’d send them the whole thing but they don’t really give a crap about the appraisers either.
156 Justin Kiesz // Aug 16, 2012 at 7:17 pm
Anyone know how to make a claim against the deadbeat AMC’s (JVI) Surety Bond? I know they are required to have posted one in Washington State, but do not know how to go about making a claim. JVI owes me $3,000. Have complained to State of Washington, who has requested supporting doc;s from me. Keeping my fingers crossed. Also, I have sent invoices to each of the actual lenders (Callaway Partners, ING Direct, Wells Fargo, First Horizon, Genworth). Any other ideas/success stories about getting paid?
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158 Jeffrey Radcliffe // Aug 6, 2012 at 10:32 am
JVI is not paying. Stay away. This company ought to be ashamed of themselves and the people that run the company prosecuted. They are being paid by their client’s and using the money for other operating cost instead of paying their appraiser’s. THEY ARE PATHETIC AND DO NOT HAVE THE BALLS TO ANSWER THEIR PHONES OR REPLY TO EMAILS. I emailed 10 employees on Thursday and have recently learned only two of them are still with the “Shit Bird” company. Prosecute the owners…. They know right from wrong…
159 Retired Appraiser // Aug 5, 2012 at 10:11 am
You guys would save yourselves a great deal of time if you simply told yourselves (and others) that ALL AMCS ARE WORTHLESS SCUMBAGS; it’s simply a matter of degrees.
COMPREHENSIVE RANKING OF AMCs
First Class: None
Low Class: Scores
No Class: The vast majority
160 Tuesday Appraisal, Cambridge, MA. // Aug 4, 2012 at 4:47 pm
As of August 4, 2012, NREIS owes us $4500 going back to January 2012.
161 Tammie // Aug 3, 2012 at 10:30 am
Today JVI has a message on answering machine saying they are no longer paying invoices until a new company takes them over (they’ve been saying that for months now). They didn’t have this message on Monday when I called and left a message. Lucky I am only owed for 1 land appraisal. I aggressively pestered the $(## out of them a few months back and was paid for 4 that were past due. AppraisalPort has been letting them order appraisals through their site when they knew months ago they weren’t paying for the appraisers..
162 LB // Aug 2, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Beware of JVI SOLUTIONS NOT PAYING!!! Won’t answer phone calls or e-mails anymore!!!
163 Steve // Jul 26, 2012 at 8:29 am
Don’t waste your time with Novo AMC/Amerisave. Total scumbags.
164 RR // Jul 25, 2012 at 3:01 pm
IN ALL MY YEARS OF APPRAISING I HAVE NEVER HAD MORE ATTEMPTS TO GET ME TO RAISE MY APPRAISED VALUES THEN FROM RELS VALUTIONS. NOT EVEN CLOSE
165 Bob henry // Jul 24, 2012 at 7:47 pm
Only do amc work, appraisers in my area have all lawyers and small banks in there pocket. Which are good amc in florida that pay reasonable fees, I havent really found more than one. Also I love doing retro and field reviews, however only found interthinx, are there any other amc which does this type of review? Thanks
166 markmax // Jul 23, 2012 at 3:54 pm
i am just starting to have a problem with streetlinks. They called and canceled, no, put on hold an appraisal, only thing is it was on a coustal island where I had to take a ferry. INow I want a trip fee which is half the total, and they say it’s to much.
About a week ago I got an email from member of our AI state chapter, which stated other appraisers were getting stiffed with fees on canceled appraisals. One got canceled after he sent the appraisal in. Must not have liked the value.
167 Gabe W // Jul 23, 2012 at 2:00 pm
JVI owes me $4000 and no response, email or returned phone calls! NREIS is just as bad. I am done working with AMCs.
168 Used to // Jul 19, 2012 at 7:15 am
This is for “Steve” on 04.19.12 - What they are doing to you sounds like what happended to me with another AMC. Pretty typical. After working on staff for a year, they changed the pay schedule, etc. Finally, I figured out that I had to go independent. Got on with with some good AMC’s as independent, then split! Don’t go independent until you have some good clients though. Even if you quit, you can still get your medical thru COBRA. Things are not perfect, but I look at it this way - even when I do just 10 a month, I’m still getting more money than when I worked 50 hrs/wk as a staffer!
169 counter // Jul 19, 2012 at 4:57 am
It seems that most of this blog is nothing but a rant against AMCs and fees. Sure, I don’t like working for AMCs. Fact is. I don’t like working but I consider myself blessed to have a career even if most of my income is from AMCs. I get reasonable fees, I work hard and I make more money than I ever dreamed possible. Work is work, that’s why we get paid for it. Some of you folks need to suck it up.
170 R C // Jul 17, 2012 at 10:35 am
I recently read about appraisalloft was reported for failing to pay appraisers and they were fined $855,000. I am having the same problem with JVI. Does anyone know who to contact or where, in floriday. I want to report them. They keep on saying the same old SH__, as far as they are being bought out by a fortune 500 company and any minute now, the first thing they are going to do is pay their outstanding invoices.
171 Debi Rogers // Jul 14, 2012 at 8:57 am
I am also having a real problem getting paid by JVI. As reported in the blog, they claim they are being taken over by some company that will pay all unpaid invoices. I have been e mailing constantly as I am owed over $2,000 for old and new appraisals. When I called one of the processors and left a message that I was concerned about taking the order since I had not been paid for ones over 6 mos old, they removed it from my appraisalport queue! I will no longer do work for them and keeping my fingers crossed that all of us can get paid!
172 JOAN HUHN // Jul 3, 2012 at 12:05 pm
CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE WAS PUT IN THE DOOD FRANK LAW FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING THE APPRAISERS THINK THEY WERE HELPING US BUT SINCE IT IS SO ANBIGUOUS, IT HELPED THE BANKS AND AMC’S DO WHAT EVER THEY WANTED. NO REASON FOR THAT TERM.ARE THEY GOING TO ASK FOR OUR FIRST BORN CHILD NEXT TO DO AS THEY WANT FOR THE NEXT 10 YRS? SAME THING.
173 Kelly R // Jun 28, 2012 at 1:45 pm
The foreclosure processor sued by Nevada Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto in last year’s robosigning cases has now retaliated, suing Masto and alleging due process violations. In December, Masto’s office sued Lender Processing Services Inc. (LPS) of Jacksonville, Fla., claiming it was involved in widespread fraud involving mass document-signing procedures in which foreclosure documents were fraudulently notarized by the thousands.
Lender Processing Services Inc. (LPS) = LSI
174 Concerned Citizen // Jun 20, 2012 at 12:08 pm
http://retappraisals.com/
Not paying their appraisers, Kevin B you need to wake up. Their phone # is now disconnected.
175 TomD // Jun 14, 2012 at 11:01 am
By the way, Kevin B ( Pa Appraiser but most likely a RET owner), there are 3 different spellings for the 3 different uses of the word there. Idiot.
176 TomD // Jun 14, 2012 at 10:57 am
RET is really unethical and bad! Avoid them like the plague because I heard they won’t be around for much longer.
177 SRA Appraiser // Jun 12, 2012 at 3:42 pm
When I get calls from amc’s I always ask where they are located. When they say the Pittsburg area, I just say No Thanks. It seems there are more amc in this area than any where else in the country
178 established appraiser // Jun 5, 2012 at 8:29 am
Regarding an AMC in Western PA going by the name RET AMC. They owe my company money from mid-march 2012. They do not answer their phone or respond to emails. The contact Jim Allen originally sent over 10 orders in 1 day to my office. Because he had asked for virtually no information I felt that something was amiss. I had completed a number of appraisals none of which they had paid for. I am going to proceed with legal and regulatory action. I advise anybody contacted by RET AMC to stay clear of them. Also I sugeest that the comment from Kevin B seen on this blog is most likely from RET themselves.
Also be aware that ISGN has contacted our office to do appraisals at ridiculously low fees. We had otherwise had a good relationship with them and they were paying on a reasonable schedule, but now they are months behind.
179 Kevin B ( Pa Appraiser ) // Jun 1, 2012 at 6:37 pm
I have worked with the AMC –RET or Real Estate Transactions– for close to six years and they have,at times been a little slow with pay,however… ALWAYS made it correct and in a timely manor. Personally I prefer third party payroll
companies vs the others who transfer you
someone that can’t help! I have followed the correct steps monthly to get paid and I GET PAID!! Follow the set up package instructions and comply with the due dates and correct forms–leads to getting paid directly by there payroll company.
I can only speak from my experience with RET — and there order processing team is Very professional, ALWAYS there to answer phone or
return email when I need them!!
I would recommend RET over most!
Knock on wood!!!!!
God bless and Good luck to all appraisers and related professionals —cause we need it!!
180 Mark Allen // Jun 1, 2012 at 12:39 pm
It is clear that appraisers are not pleased.
AI and other organizations have not represented the appraiser. State coalitions in VA and other states have passed bills, however there is no enforcement agency. HVCC, Frank Dodd, Customary and Reasonable? All AMC’s, FNMA, AI, Lending Institutions can out-lobby any single appraiser or a COALITION.
A “blackout” date is the method that will force AMC’s, FNMA, and Lending Institutions to change the law. Blackout one AMC at a time. First Statewide, then on a National Level.
The carrot that will attract appraisers to rally is revenue. No other iussues, just money. The blackout is for revenue only.
Someone is attempting to turn over a website that is functional and can assist in orchestrating this.
Please contact me at MALLENAPPRAISALS@AOL.COM
I also need more data as to the regulations for organizing a blackout without legal consequences. On this, I am not an expert and need assistance. Please e-mail me. Notice, I have not placed a large complaint list on this blog, this has been done, a blackout must be organized. This is a show of force that any AMC would recognize and fear. If this is successful, then other issues will also be addressed with a position of power.
Any assistance would be great.
181 N. California Boy // May 31, 2012 at 4:24 pm
JVI owes me $1,000 and has for 5 months, with no end in sight. They say their being bought out, we will see. The truely amazing thing is they still try to give me work. They told me to wait 3 months for my back pay, then called me again to say..sorry it will be longer, and I’m no sure when you will get paid. What’s worse is that I was whoring myself for these bastards…$265 for a 1004 REO. I’m so ready to leave this business, just have to find something else.
182 Bob // May 24, 2012 at 12:19 pm
JVI used to pay good fees, but slow. I heard the same as Tammie … JVI is in trouble and is out over 120 days and cannot tell me when I’ll get paid. They are (were) the only AMC I did work for. Figure out your hourly wage (consider your overhead costs) and you’ll discover AMC’s don’t pay enough for you skillset. It’s fundamental economics! If we all just say NO, the pendulum will swing back in our direction
183 Tammie // May 23, 2012 at 11:26 am
If you do work for JVI beware…they have been taking over 90 days to pay invoices for 2 years now (pay only after I call). I received an e-mail a few days ago that they are being bought by a Fortune 500 company in a few weeks, and the new company would be paying all their past due invoices then. They are still ordering appraisals on AppraisalPort…just cancelled the one I had when I got this e-mail.
184 Edd Gillespie // May 23, 2012 at 7:59 am
How sad it is to see appraisal professionals, most of whom sincerely want to do the best job appraising and reporting that they possibly can, frustrated by Fannie Mae, high volume lenders, a cadre of lacky AMCs, and a plethora of spin doctor appraisers.
It is clear that when it comes to secondary mortgage work that the going - in value of the collateral really is only of concern when the loan goes bad. With that mind set it is no wonder that appraisers are resented and manipulated. AMCs are nothing more than an extention of high volume single family residential mortgage lenders who, for the most part, consider appraisals nothing more than a nuisance sandf fig leaf when the loan goes bad.
The only way this profession can maintain the standards it aspires to is to refuse any work connected to Fannie Mae including review. Obviously that means economic disaster to a significant number of appraisers who are dependent on work destined for Fannie Mae.
As for rating AMCs. I think they are all bad for and to appraisers so on a scale of 1 - 10 they all get a 1 from me.
I was excited that AMC regulation would have a positive influence on appraising, but having now seen several states’ efforts, nothing much changed.
The answer for the appraisal profession and the long term benefit for all of us is to refuse the work, but it seems that no matter how bad it gets some appraiser will accept the assignment.
AMCs are of zero benefit to appraisers. As it is their job to get you to appraise as fast and cheap as possible and make fit everything into the Fannie guides.
185 Kamikaze Appraiser // May 22, 2012 at 9:46 pm
Dear Mel
When your AMC gets down to offering you $75 let us know if you are ready to boycott.
Still amazed that appraisers are willing to endure this insanity and refer to themselves as “professionals”.
Hint: Professionals don’t volunteer to do twice the work while taking a 50% pay cut guys. Idiots do.
186 Chris // May 22, 2012 at 8:16 pm
there is a company in western PAhttp://www.retappraisals.com/ they are called RET(real estate transactions) they are real scumbags so unprofessional they told us they pay within two weeks of submitting an invoice and then it became 45 days and after that they didnt pay and continued to tell us that ADP handles there payroll I called ADP and they never heard of them we than go a $1300 check hand written when they owed us $3200 they crossed off there address 4160 Washington Rd. McMurray . PA . 15317 they crossed off a bunch of appraisals they owed us for and told us they didnt get paid so they are not paying us. DO NOT DEAL WITH THEM THEY ARE A VERY DECEITFUL COMPANY AND WE’LL SEE WHO’S FUNNY WHEN WE PUT LEINS ON ALL THISE UNPAID PROPERTIES LETS SEE HOW THE HOMEOWNER FEELS ABOUT THAT.
IF ANYONE OUT THERE KNOWS HOW TO HELP US GET PAID THAT WOULD BE GREAT CAUSE I AINT LETTING THIS ONE SLIDE. THEY ARE REAL LOWLIFES.
187 Mel // May 22, 2012 at 1:52 pm
another problem amc is isgn. They came to me in February 2012 asking for me to do work for them. They were willing to pay $175 for 2055 exterior and were offering $190 for 1004 forms. I thought this to be low but took the 2055 work and declined the 1004 work telling them it was too low. 2 months later they want me to do 1004 forms for $168 and 2055 forms for $125. menwhile they are sending out request for orders to all there appraisers in the area at once and selling them out to the lowest bidders. They pay on time for the most part but are looking for appraisers to work for nothing for them. Companies like these are a major problem for the business today.
188 Isaac @ Working RE Magazine // May 14, 2012 at 12:50 pm
If you’re looking for a solid list of reputable AMCs that send work, consider Working RE’s 2012 AMC Guide here: http://www.workingre.com/workingre/amc-directory.html
We’ve had a lot of appraisers give us positive feedback that it’s helped them find lots of work for mostly fair fees.
189 Marty // May 11, 2012 at 7:48 am
Look, here is the bottom line, as long as appraisers keep accepting assignments for less than $350.00 for SFR 1004 standard, we all will have a problem that will not go away!! A law needs to be passed that AMC cannot shop appraisal fees looking for the lowest price and the lenders who use AMC’s need to inforce this. HOW? Qlad you asked. All the Lenders have to do is tell their AMC that they want their orders assigned to a quality appraiser within 4 hours of receiving the order from the lender. Problem solved. That being said, APPRAISERS REMEMBER, SOFTWARE, MLS SERVICES, E&O INSURANCE AND INTERNET COST ARE STILL RISING, SO DO NOT ACCEPT LESS THAN $350.00. THATS BEEN THE SAME FEE I HAVE CHARGED FOR 15 YEARS WITH NO COST OF LIVING INCREASES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!
190 madmax the appraiser // May 7, 2012 at 6:00 am
I just got paid by Valuation Management Group after 6 months and a letter of small clames court threat. They finally paid. They ordered one thing and after I sent appraisal they wanted an additional value and data for free. We I asked for more money, they said no, eeven when I read their letter again requesting just a MV report. So I did not provide additional data and so the problem started. They are out of Atlanta, GA so be careful.
I have also had problems with Clear Capital and several management co. out of Pitts burg, they all pay very slow, seem to be working on a shoe string.
One co. Solidifi did not pay and after several calls I finally got the girl with payables and she said she would add me to the list for the next pay period, but that did not mean I would get paid. When I questioned her she said they have a cash flow problem and only so many appraisers get paid a month. Another co. added to MY black list.
I have found out that some co. may pay a full fee, but in the end they just don’t pay.
191 Question For Sonny // May 1, 2012 at 1:30 am
At least 90% of appraisers are guilty of accepting lower than typical fees today.
Obviously appraisers don’t have the guts to boycott (which is the only real solution to the problem).
Do appraisers have the guts to dig up evidence against their low balling competitors and post it on a dedicated web directory like IdiotAppraisers.com? Probably not.
Expose the idiots by baiting them and eventually they will be afraid to accept real AMC orders for less than $300. Nobody wants to be branded for life but with a directory similar to Brokers.com it can easily be done.
192 SONNY APPRAISER // Apr 30, 2012 at 1:10 pm
Ive been working with a large amc LSI for several years now, must admit, i find them to have the best service, web sight and fee. Recently, LSI stopped sending me orders, when i called to ask why, they replied chase is now using other amcs. Coincidently, one week later I recieved several orders from an amc which is prmarily in the credit score /fax services business. The first 4 orders were reasonbly fee’d 345-350. . The next three orders were below 300.00 for a single family. When I returned the call to ask why the change, he replied, other appraisers are exepting 275.00 and 300.00 for single families in my area….I refused the orders and never recieved another..in my opionion, this company is going via apraiserloft and will be bringing down chase with them..there system stinks..but why ??!! are you idiot low balling appraisers accepting such fees when, in my recent experience, these companies will push the higher fee if they have to. I recently recieved a call from an appraisal company asking to do some extra work for them…when i asked what the split was, i was told 50%???!! and there orders come from amc and lenders.. How can another professional in this business stoop this low and take 50% of an already low worthless amc fee and push it on another fellow appraiser for a split fee. They are just as bad as amc’s and making this business worse.! Seriously my fellow appraiser, because we are all stuck in the competive mentality of looking out for our own selves, this industry and all of us will continue to suffer until it is all gone. I cannot fully blame the amcs for taking what they can.
193 Chuck Johnson // Apr 27, 2012 at 9:04 am
GOOD NEWS for appraisers! It is so busy during the first 4 months of 2012 you DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT LOW FEE WORK. I have successfully raised my price with the couple of AMCs that allow you to set your own - and I have aligned myself with two new AMCs that pay higher. I take private party assignments. I called a local appraiser after seeing a copy of his recent appraisal made to Streetlinks. $225 for 7 comps. I could not believe my eyes. I called him right away and told him I am in the middle of an FHA condo for $370. 5 comps. You idiots that are complaining about low fee work and are setting the fee at $225 are you kidding me? I told this appraiser all he needs to do is call the AMC and raise his price. Leaving $100 on the table for every appraisal. Its stupidity. You’re not going to undercut anyone but yourself. I am happy to report that life is good, I will make over $100k this year and I ride my bicycle minimum 3-4 days a week to my assignments. Going green. Yes, the homeowners are somewhat puzzled by this but are happy to know that they at least have a LOCAL appraiser. By the way, we are fortunate enough to have enough requests to focus on the local work and turn down the more distant orders. I have denied more than 5 appraisals this week alone. Good luck out there and love what you do. Its better than sitting in a cubicle making less $ and answering to the machine. I was stuck in that rut for many years.
194 Wisdom Lurks // Apr 22, 2012 at 1:09 pm
Steve
I recommend that you call upon the AI and demand that they organize a boycott against AMC orders. If enough appraisers call or emailed them they may finally get a clue as to the real solution to the problems that appraisers are facing. They are currently as clueless to what appraisers are facing as our state boards are (hear that KREAB?).
195 Steve // Apr 19, 2012 at 11:21 pm
I was a LSI “staff” appraiser for several months. The standard pay per appraisal is $ 80.00, plus $ 24,000 per year salary. You must complete 8-10 per week. This includes all types of products (multi,REO, 1004, ETC.). I was told by my direct supervisor ” QUANITY OVER QUALITY”. If the reviewer delays the process, you are still held accountable. Some of the review request changes are ridicoulus. The reviewers are located all over the country ( Utah,Cal.,PA.), I practice in MD, with no geographical knowledge. Which is fine for USPAP issues, but for more specific issues, they are clueless. I canot tell you the number of times I had to educate someone on ground rent (leasehold), and how to apply this to the appraisal process. Some have never heard of it, but yet, they have the authority to hold up your work flow. They do offer benefits, direct deposit, etc. To complete 10 quality reports per week, plus inspection time, you will be working 7 days per week. The solution is to somehow band together, and regain control. How to go about it is the question. Hope this helps.
196 Jeremy Hall Appraisals - CO // Apr 17, 2012 at 12:02 pm
Well, I floated down almost the entire TAVMA list, and failed to acquire a long term amc client who engaged me ethically and respectfully. // “The biased is built in.” //
Where else should I turn? How about a lender who does not employ an advocate to manage appraisers? Looks like that eliminates amc’s. Dear lenders, I’m out there, just waiting for ethical engagement. Fees are 350+, turn times are 1 week minimum, and I don’t waste time educating underqualified persons in proper ethical appraisal process. You’ll be free to use me, as soon as you’re not using an amc.
197 reana // Apr 17, 2012 at 11:39 am
it’s sad that the lowest paying amcs like lsi, streetlinks, pvc murcor, nations valuations, and clear capital always expect tons of meaningless and redundant commentary and addenda in our reports and always have a “reviewer” (almost never an appraiser) demand some pointless and idiotic “correction”. they basically are trying to write the report for the appraiser anymore.
198 Wisdom Lurks // Apr 16, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Let them laugh. When interest rates hit 6% and gasoline hits $5 AMCs will be in the unenviable position of doing the work themselves. Once we reach those 2 milestones the dullest appraisal minds in the country will be on the cusp of gaining wisdom.
199 reana // Apr 16, 2012 at 4:08 pm
its such a shame appraisers were forced to play ball with unethical and very low paying amcs like lsi, streetlinks, pvc murcor, nations valuations, clear capital, etc. whatever happened to customary and reasonable fees? these shady amcs are just laughing at the appraiser.
200 jeff // Apr 11, 2012 at 8:38 am
Ok, so i knew this forum was designed to help fellow appraisers with finding work, warnings of bad amc/clients, and i assume not a platform to rant and rave about our industry. Well its apparent that appraisers want to rant and rave (understandingly so) about what is happening. Well i am about solving issues. To me the issue is that appraisers are not in control of their own industry. In my opinion, the way to do so is to unite and have a central and local forum with a large member base that is similar to the realtors’. It seems to me that the realtor association is effective in governing themselves, effectivly lobbying for themselves, and accomplishing what they need to. They pay for this. They pay a lot for it. But they pay 1 organization to look out for their interests. We want to save our industry????? We need to get our heads out of our asses and help one another and stand united. We need representation where it counts. We need OUR interests looked after in government now they are involved and making decisions for us. Lobbyists!!!!
It is very sad to say that in America we can not have a free and uninterupted industry without others having a say to what we can and cannot do. I can not establish my own relationships due to customer service, hard work, skill, professionalism, education, and all that it used to take to run a service business. We provide a service to a client. They decide what to do based on our OPINION!! If we keep it simple as that….no issues.
Government got involved in a business and messed it up as usual.
If we dealt with clients face to face they could make their own decisions of who to use and what they want to pay. If they did not like fees or the service we provided….we got fired.
So if we as an industry will not focus and commit to a single representative dedicated to secure our interests in the corrupted system, we will be pushed around and taken advantage of. Just like in any other scenario of life. The strong survive and the weak do not.
So stop all the nonsense and comit to this profession with your time or money and figure out a way to do what is needed.
Now i have no new clients to share about on here cuz i have not had a new client in sometime. I have seen these amc offering these “desktop valuation” orders for 35$. Protek and trivarin (name??). Thats the only new work i see out there unless your in areas that noone want to be in. I see job offers there.
Thanks for letting me share!
201 Bryan Knowlton // Apr 4, 2012 at 9:51 am
Another bad one for Evalonline / ES Appraisal services
AMC Name = ES Appraisal Services
Their Website = https://www.evalonline.com
Nationwide or Local = Appear to Nationwide
Not paying their appraisers for many months on end. This is very dangerous one and make sure you do not get to many unpaid invoices with them.
Looks like they might be following in the footsteps of appraisersloft!
202 The Banks // Apr 2, 2012 at 10:21 am
Tammie
Welcome to the Island Of Misfits. You will never find over 3 appraisers willing to agree on how to fight back; hence the success of banks.
Bottom Line:
Nobody cares about which AMC is the worst.
Who cares that they are stealing 1/2 your fees?
Nobody cares that you are doing 2x the work.
Suck it up.
Do 4x the work you were doing 3 years ago.
Pretend that someone will fix it for you.
Whatever you do…don’t organize to fight back.
Your Friend
The Banks
…but God forbid don’t consider organizing.
203 Tammie Daughety // Apr 2, 2012 at 6:46 am
AMC RATINGS BY APPRAISERS; OK…I came to this site hoping to gain some insight into different AMC’s business practices and to offer my own experiences in order to avoid “bad” AMCs and to help other appraisers with information and recommendations. Instead, I just see the usual appraiser rants about “low ball fees” and AMC reviewer complaints. So, I’m dissapointed. I thought I found a blog that would concentrate on SPECIFIC AMCs and provide some good basic info. Guys, can we please leave all the other “stuff” for other sites??? In the spirit of STICKING TO THE INTENDED TOPIC…here I go;
AMC Name = ES Appraisal Services
Their Website = https://www.evalonline.com
Nationwide or Local = Appear to Nationwide
*RECOMMEND; YES/NO = NO
*OVERALL RATING = POOR; I no longer accept orders from them.
*Payment Schedule = POOR; they had to be harrassed and threatened in order to finally pay
*Fees Rating = Good; they always accept my standard fee quote.
*Turn Times = Good; they usually accept my expected ETA, once in a while, ask for a rush.
*Review/Corrections Requests = Good; typically only come back to me if something won’t allow the report to go through their client’s “system”. Once you get used to small things that may cause a problem, you can completely avoid those issues.
*Workflow = Good; seemed to have a steady flow of assignments in my coverage area.
*Pressure Issues; Good; never had any discussion regarding values; no pressure to change any value or include additional comparables.
*Attitude of Staff = Good; mostly you can tell that the ones calling/contacting you for orders have very little appraisal and/or real estate knowledge, however they are always courteous and helpful if you have questions.
*AMC Website/Report Upload Platform = Good; their website works perfectly every time…never have an issue.
*FINAL COMMENTS; As you can see from my ratings, this AMC is pretty good except that their accounting department has MAJOR PROBLEMS. Because of the payment issues, I stopped working with them. No matter how good everything else is, what good does it do us if we can’t get paid??? I’m concerned that since they have already received payment for the appraisal but have SO MUCH TROUBLE paying appraisers, that they may be having financial issues and could be going the way of Appraiser Loft.
204 James // Apr 1, 2012 at 2:38 pm
One of the worst AMC’s I heard about is Service Link. I have friends who tell me they only pay $200-$225 for an appraisal report. I’m glad I got out of doing mortgage appraisals 4 years ago….don’t know how you guys make a living with fees like that.
205 Ethan // Mar 22, 2012 at 7:24 pm
@John Pratt; Is there a current petition going on so we can contribute?
206 Jim // Mar 22, 2012 at 2:13 pm
Clear Capital is one of the current worst low ballers. They will bother the heck out of you if you accept one of their low fee assignments. They want a Rolls Royce for the price of a Kia.
207 Jim // Mar 22, 2012 at 2:06 pm
Since reports have become so bloated with unneccessary detail and constant USPAP refinements, it is now possible to complete only 4-5 reports a week. As this is barely enough to stay in business, one has to be more selective about accepting work. Take no work for low fees. Reject any assignment that is atypical in any way. Doing so will save time and lower risk. Drop AMCs after two assignements if they have a culture of low fees and high expectations -as in they feel they harass you , even months later, to change the report or they expect daily updates. Drop these companies. They have no respect for the appraiser. Lighten up, reduce overhead, drop MLS systems that are lightly used and require excessive driving. This will save hours that you can use having a life and styaing healthy. It will make your car last longer as well. If your fees are lower than the guy who washes your office windows ( that is, if you even have a free standing office that you haven’t been able to get rid of) then you need to charge more. If AMCs want to jump to the front of the line with 24 hr turn times, they ought to be willing to pay for express delivery. If not, too bad. Let them find someone else to torture. Life is too short.
208 Lee // Mar 21, 2012 at 4:47 pm
Agree with John Pratt; Could this site reverse the order of the postings so the most recent appear at the top. Thanks
209 Lee // Mar 21, 2012 at 4:46 pm
Someone in the Redding/Red Bluff area of California is doing 1004s with MC for $200.00. Please quit being a dope and act more professional.
210 John Pratt // Mar 21, 2012 at 10:33 am
Could this site reverse the order of the postings so the most recent appear at the top. Thanks
211 John Pratt // Mar 21, 2012 at 10:31 am
Open Letter to Appraisal Blogs
Every appraiser in the U.S. knows the negative impact that the AMC’s have had on income of appraisers over the last 3 years. The appraisers and the appraisal industry have done several things over that period to get appraisal fees back to reasonable levels with little success. There has been an enormous amount of time and effort to get the government to solve the problem. Let me tell you, if you are waiting on the government, hell with freeze over and you will be in the poor house before things get better.
All appraisers know that the requirements and pressure put on us have increased over the past 3 years with additional forms, types of report (forensic, expanded, enhanced and others), turn times and other requirements. Additional educational requirements to become a Certified Appraiser, 2 year degree required to upgrade in addition to require more basic and continuing appraisal courses and longer training periods. I am not saying these are bad or unnecessary things, just that the fees paid to appraisers have not increased to correspond to these changes. In addition there have been several increases in the cost to produce an appraisal including but not limited to E & O insurance, software cost, MLS fees, travel expenses and many others.
I was getting $ 375.00 to complete a standard SFR in a suburban area 5 years ago, more if it was in a rural area. Today I get request, broadcast, from AMC’s for as low as $ 225.00(I don’t even respond to these) and sometimes they will increase the fee slightly and send it the following day and continue this process until some appraiser accept their fee. It is time to change this process and the appraisers are the only ones that have the power to do it.
Appraisers need to realize that we have the Hammer. The AMC’s have agreements with their Lender clients (appraisers are not part of that agreement) to produce and deliver appraisals, they NEED appraisers to fill this commitment therefore the appraiser has the hammer if we stick together. It is time that the appraisers band together and call a Holiday or 2 or 3 or even a week if necessary. NO appraisals will be accepted, worked on or completed during this time frame. After this date (pick a date Feb 1st,March 1st or whatever day) the minimum fee for a SFR 1004 will be $ 500, more if it is out of town or additional forms or requirements, $ 800.00 for multi-family, 2-4 units. If the appraisers stick together the AMC’s will have no choice but to pay the fee, they need to service the needs of their clients and produce an appraisal and they can’t do it in house.
I realize that not all appraisers will stick together but if we could get 75 % to band together it would work. The other 25% could not handle all the work that is out there and the turn times would be unacceptable to the clients. The appraisers got over 16,000 signatures on a petition to send to the government which produced few results, we need to take matters into our own hands.
NOTE: I do not accept assignments with reduced fees, my fees for 1004’s average over $ 400.00 and for reviews form 2000 over $ 325. and multi-family over $ 650.
John Pratt, Certified Residential Appraiser
212 richard // Mar 20, 2012 at 3:09 pm
I have only one bad dealing with a amc and it was appraiserloft. It took 3+ months to get paid for the one appraisal I did. I had to inform them that I would stop by and take more then the 200 they owed me. Sure enought the check arrived 2 days later. The other AMC’s are real good about paying every 30 days. One pays every 45 days which I think is a joke to have to waite that long when the AMC already collected the fee.
When it comes to the reviewers at these AMC, I keep a list of the names of those reviewers who I wont acknoldge anymore, if one of them reviews it and wants changes I just send it right back and it gets accepted by another reviewer. Also alot of the conditions that they are asking for are boiler plate bs and are meaningless most of the time. I get stuff comming back asking for averages and percentages. Averaging IS NOT AN ACEPTABLE APPRAISAL PRACTICE. Also I am almost certain that 90% of the reviewers dont even have licenses, they are people that have been trained by the one certified appraiser in the office that they have to have on staff. As for the fee’s I wont do an appraisal for less then 200. I have had companies trie and get me to take less and I told them to find someone else. Never heard back from the lowball companies that want you to do them for 150. Remember they are charging the homeowner at least 350+ for the order. Reasonable fee my you know what.
I have only one question for those of you out there complaining. What would you be doing if your not appraising. I cant think of a job were you get paid for you OPINION. Relax and go with the flow cuz you probable would not be making half the money doing something else. Do you have another skill or job to take over if you leave appraising. I started out before digital cameras, using microfish for plat maps and paisting photos and copying everything 4 times, packaging and delivering reports. Now its point and click. If it takes you more then 2-3 hours to do a report from start to finish, including the home inspection then you are not that efficient and are waisting time and money. It use to take 1/2 to 1 hour back in the day just to do the sketch right. Learn to type without having to look at the keyboard and you will cut your typiwriting time in half. Stick it out cuz more and more are leaving the business and they will always need someone to verify the home for a loan. you can reply back to bono-mini@yahoo.com if you like to chat.
213 Jen // Mar 16, 2012 at 9:22 am
Christy, I feel your pain with LSI. Their “reviewers” aren’t even appraisers yet they sit there and try and tell you how to write your report (poorly, I might add). They just work off a checklist created by the “beautiful mind” of their egomaniac head appraiser George Van, the man who thinks he invented appraisal. so funny coming from one of the most unethical AMC’s there ever was. LPS is basically a criminal organization (robosignings, anyone?)
214 sa // Mar 7, 2012 at 8:23 pm
After my 3rd experience dealing with fellow appraisers in this business, I am standing with bankrape.com whom stated appraisers are spineless and uninited. Ive met up with appraisers while on the job several times this past year. In my experience, they all seem to be unsocial and when conversing, they each and all have this similar attitude and tendency of holding back whom they work for, any amc or lender they are getting work from and when asking what fee’s they are getting, they seem to shunt away from me, (like I really need their work)… we as appraisers are only doing this to ourselves. We are still competing againts eachother, for greedy and insecure reasons, we do not expose our fees or amc work to other fellow appraisers with the fear of losing business to the competition. With this old mentality of holding back , appraisers will never move up in this business and will continue to stay at the bottom. pithetic. I could be wrong, but, its just an opinion….or is it what it is?
215 DataGatheringDrone // Mar 4, 2012 at 12:24 pm
re elect Obama
and it will get even worse
our profession has gone straight down with big government and regulations
Every intervention to stimulate the market means the market gets worse.
216 Jim // Mar 3, 2012 at 8:32 am
I just got a check from an AMC . They deducted $5 from the fee that was contracted. Where do they get off STEALING money? Appraisers are being nickled and dimed to death by AMCs. Some offer $25!!! for desk reviews and comps searches with 4 hr turn times to corroboaate anothers report which are basically reveiw appraisals . It now takes HOURS sometimes to just navigate portals to send and then resend finished reports in multiple UAD. XML, PDF formats. The homeless guy who washes my storefront window gets paid more per hour than what these outfits offer an experienced, college educated professional. The profession has been degraded to a low paid data entry job and will be dead in a couple of years if appraisers are not treated with due respect and professional fees. I am limiting my work to companies that pay a fair fee and don’t drive me crazy. They get two chances. If the second assignment is as bad a nightmare as the first, I tell them to take me off their list and find someone else to waterboard. I am so glad that Appraiserloft went out of business. They would drive an appraiser crazy with nitpicking and then not pay for 9 months. If you have a bad experience with an AMC tell them and then drop them. That is all they understand. It will just get worse now that we are slavishly inputting free UAD data for the Mortgage Bankers. They will take the free data we supply and use it to further automate and drive down fees to the point where there will be no profitability in maintaining systems, car, phone, internet, license and E&O. Then, without enough appriasers remaining in business for field work, they will become fully automated.
217 Bryant // Feb 28, 2012 at 11:23 am
Has anyone worked with Axios? Myaxios.com
Would like to hear what others think. I have not worked with them before and am wondering about their pay and how long it takes to get paid.
Thanks, Bryant
218 Suzanne Cowart // Feb 26, 2012 at 10:45 am
In my opinion I think as a professional in this industry (over 25 years residential) we have to stand united.
In south Georgia the standard fee is $350 for a conventional and $400 to $450 for FHA/Va or USDA and that is what I am committed to.
Had a request to do a conventional for $300 but rejected to order because if AMC’s can get cheaper they will no matter what the quality of work is.
The one violation I see of USPAP is appraisers appraising in markets they do not know and this should be a “red flag” when you have an appraiser from 150+ miles away that totally does not know the market in which they are appraising. As the government is trying to keep from having undue influence on appraised values….they ought to look at the guidelines that are being violated with appraiser from totally different markets appraising in a market they are not familiar with or have no experience in.
219 Christy // Feb 23, 2012 at 5:55 pm
goodspud-you’re talking about LSI, right? they’re the absolute worst.
220 goodspud // Feb 16, 2012 at 7:54 am
Many of the AMC’s are placing orders with the lowest fee they can get an appraiser to accept. The assumption is if an appraiser is accepting the fee, it must be customary and reasonable. I wonder how many appraisers are being turned away and/or not even considered because of higher fee requests. It would be interesting to track the placing of these appraisal requests to see how many appraisers reject the low fee or not considered by the AMC. And, if a vast majority of appraisers are not accepting the low fee, is it really customary and reasonable?
221 SALVO // Feb 15, 2012 at 5:49 am
Got out of the appraisal business, working a full time secure job and doing appraisals part time…….staying in the business was like being hooked on drugs spiraling downward. although i continued to gain business, the stress and insecurity was not worth it. Amazingly, the less desperate I now am for an order the more money I am being offered…350-375 for single family comes easy. This is a crazy business…
222 Robert // Feb 14, 2012 at 2:04 pm
So where is the rating survey? After 15 years as an appraiser I have had it with the freaking AMC’s and their manipulation.
I am ready to rate them the same way they rate us. If you as an appraiser state that you will not create an appraisal in violation of USPAP… violla, you are fired, banished forever!
My thoughts about AMC’s — Off with their heads!!!
223 David // Feb 4, 2012 at 3:23 am
I will gladly provide anyone who asks with verification of an AMC that took TWO YEARS to pay for an appraisal. Yes is was Appraisal Loft. Feel free to email me anytime at davidf104@aol.com
Appraisers have been writing to Congressmen for nearly three years trying to get help. It is clear to all that by doing so you’re are asking the very people who were bribed and coerced by the banking lobby for help. It’s a waste of your valuable time.
Appraisers need a centralized website to which focuses ONLY on the issues that you mentioned. Oddly enough this site was set and went online on Oct. 31st. It only needs a group of appraisers to use and devise a means of emailing it to ALL appraisers. I will gladly hand the keys to the site to anyone who can convince me they will work at it. If they wish to alter the design or add pages I’ll be happy to walk them through that as well. The site has been mentioned on here many times (and was mentioned in the comment prior to yours).
I welcome any individual to take over the site and get the word out to appraisers they do have a way to organize. Every appraisers has access to the internet. Thousands of appraisers are crying over fees and such yet I have found that they are too lazy to commit to telling 5 other appraisers about a centralized website created to end the rape of their profession.
Sad sad sad. On second thought…it’s pathetic.
224 LT by LAX // Feb 3, 2012 at 4:19 pm
I sent this to my local and state representatives, and to every appraiser I know asking the to do the same. Now I’m asking you.
I hope you can help me.
I am a Certified Real Estate appraiser in California, appraising for 8 years now. With the many things that I feel that have gone wrong with the profession, I want to zero in on one. The time it takes to be paid by an AMC once my report is accepted and sent to the client.
Anybody that ever did business with Appraiser Loft knows what I am talking about. AMCs are taking as long as six months to pay the appraisal fee to the appraiser. Never have I heard of a business providing a service and not being paid in a timely and reasonable amount of time, without some sort of penalty to the payer.
You accept an assignment from an AMC, and they will contact you either by phone, email or text every 8 to12 hours asking for a status, and when will the report be submitted. Once the report is submitted and accepted, they forget you name, who and where you are.
I think ten(10) working days is enough time to approve, print and mail a check to the appraiser for their services. I want to make this happen. How do I, who do I talk to, where do I go to make this happen?
How do I go about including the following into Dodd-Frank or a Senate Bill?
AMC: Reasonable Fees & Prompt payment of Appraiser fees
An AMC operating in California will collect no more than 10% administrative fee from each appraisal payment , that includes both scheduling and processing. The AMC must make payment to the appraiser for the completion of an appraisal or valuation assignment within fifteen (10) days after the date the AMC receives the completed appraisal or valuation study. A violation of the statute allows appraisers to file a complaint with the OREA. Non-compliance may also be discovered through the audit. If found guilty, an AMC could lose the right to do business in California.
States with “prompt pay” provisions in their AMC law include: AZ, CT, MD, MO, MT, NM, OK, OR, TN, MS.
225 BankRape.com // Feb 1, 2012 at 3:23 pm
To answer your first question Jeff: “Why can’t appraisers model their associations on the Realtor model?”
Appraisers appear to be poorly educated foolish individuals for the most part. How else could you honestly explain their inability to organize even three years after they knew about the coming destruction of their “profession”.
I am ashamed to admit that I wasted 18 years of my life in that arena.
226 JEFF // Jan 31, 2012 at 7:31 am
GOOD DAY!
I HAVE ONLY BEEN APPRAISING FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS. BEFORE THAT I WAS AN APPRENTICE FOR ABOUT 2 YEARS. I WORKED FOR AN AMC PRIOR AND THAT IS WHAT GOT ME INTO THE INDUSTRY. (GAC)
I PUT A LOT OF BLAME ON “US” THE APPRAISERS. WHY ARE WE SO SCATTERED IN OUR PROFESSION? THE REALTORS ARE NOT AS SCATTERED! THEY DO NOT HAVE THIS ISSUE. AS FAR AS I KNOW, THERE ARE 2 PLACES FOR AGENTS. THEIR LOCAL ASSOCIATION AND THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION. THAT IS IT. THEY PAY INTO BOTH AND THEY GET WHAT THEY PAY FOR PRETTY MUCH. MLS, EDUCATION, ETC. AND THEY SEEM TO BE PRETTY ORGANIZED. WE, THE APPRAISERS, EVEN GET OUR DATA FROM THEM.
WHY CANT APPRAISERS MODEL THIS ASSOCIATION? HAVING ONE MAJOR “ARMY” WE WILL GET LEGISLATION DONE IN OUR FAVOR THAT WAY.
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO PUT OF A FIGHT. WE HAVE TO HAVE AN “ARMY” WORTHY OF BATTLE TO SAVE OUR PROFESSION. NUMBERS IS THE GAME. NUMBERS MEAN MONEY AND VOTES. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS IN THIS WAR.
WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED TO ACHEIVE?
UNITED WE STAND, UNITED WE WIN!!
THAT IS MY OPINION, SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM WRONG. WHAT AM I MISSING? HOW DO WE “WIN” THIS BATTLE IN ORDER TO SAVE OUR PROFESSION?
227 Cindy A // Jan 29, 2012 at 11:05 am
I am an appraiser who covers two rural counties in PA. Most of my markets are very rural. I am only working for clients who will pay my required fees. The other companies who call me told ” I do not work for those kind of low fees” Amazingly I have enough business. In fact more than I would like. A few years ago when the low fees began I decided I would stick to my fees, increase them “when I want:” and I did this year again. I have realized through going over my yearly bills and expenses that I am still not making any profit. Appraisers through the years have created this issue by accepting the low fees for volumes of work. Please realize “you dont need volume”..”you need to be paid for your hard work on every assignment”. Yes the management companies should not tell the consumers that the appraiser is being paid more than they are and consumers have the right to know what fee is what. If management companies want paid then they should request their own fees and appraisers should request theirs and the consumers should know where their money is going period. As far as working for what appraisers are calling fair and reasonable fees, all appraisers need to sit down with a pen and paper and calculate and I can assure you “you are not making a profit” even if you are making the good fees. I have one AMC tell me “WE ARE NOT A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION” And I responded to him “and I am not non-profit either. However if we all sat down and figured it out on paper. We are all non-profit. I will be retiring also very soon if this industry cannot stand up and ask for fee inceases every single time more work is required by us. No appraiser want to be non-profit and the reason we are is years and years of un-trained individuals entering the field who desperatly need the work and in turn take the low fees and pump out volume to make ends meet. It is the consumers, the lenders, and the good appraisers who are suffering in this mess and something needs to be done. It is up to every single appraiser to state their fees needed…stick to it…and to also not sign papers for unqualified trainees to enter the field. If you train and individual to go into this business and you know they are not able to complete good appraisals you are making this industry worse. Its the poorly trained appraisers who will accept these low fees! A good appraiser will be paid fair fees. A good appraiser is not needy for work. If appraisers do not have the time to train a person well, then dont do it! I pray every day for the appraiser profession to become “professional” and the micro-management of our companies by AMCS to end. Cindy
228 JT // Jan 10, 2012 at 6:03 pm
Something has to happen soon regardless what i’m going through . At least be fair it can’t continue. This all happended because a few ( or more overall a smal lportion) bad appraisers couldn’t stick to their integrity . This can’t be the formula for all professions ? so bad cops, politicians, lawers etc all do the crime and get caught in time, same here with appraisers ( what does this really prevent? if your going to be a crook of sorts). There’s still pressure & BS but now thousands of greedy peeps have their fingers in our pies! Its so blown up how can it be stopped. Only two ways i can think of , 1st is politcians have to reverse what they have done ( possible maybe) 2nd all appraiser go on strike ( will never happen ) perpetually screwed 4ever it seems!!!!!!!!
229 Mikey // Jan 4, 2012 at 7:16 pm
You gotta love this from the Dataquick AMC website appraiser application (see below). I have been an appraiser in Washington State for 15 years. I stopped working for low AMC fees several months ago. I am now 60 days behind on my mortgage. All I can do is laugh. It is really sad that this profession has been destroyed. I thought about making one more run at gaining some new Clients and started with Dataquick website after noticing that they are licensed as an AMC in my State (Washington). I made it as far as reading the application to the trip fee section. Screw this. I am done! Like Seattle Girl said, I will keep my dignity. The Washington State AMC regulation is a sham and shows exactly where the money and the laws come from. ACOW (Appraisers Colation of Washington) is nothing more than an AMC lobby. Regarding Dataquick (see below) I guess the appraiser is responsible for gas and time to the property regardless of whether the Borrower shows up or cancels. Why are AMCs profiting off of trip fees, and other items? Washington State failed to address this and does not mention “FAIR AND REASONABLE FEES” in their AMC regulation bill at all. What a joke!
“4. TRIP FEES: If the appraiser has an appointment and the homeowner is not available or the lender
cancels the appointment after the appraiser arrives at the subject property, and the lender cancels the order, DataQuick will pay a maximum trip fee of $50 if a trip fee is paid to DataQuick from the lender.
If the appraiser has an appointment but the homeowner is not available or cancels the
appointment after the appraiser arrives at the subject property, but reschedules the appointment
and an appraisal is eventually completed, DataQuick will only pay the vendor for the completed
appraisal. No additional trip fee will be paid to the appraiser for the initial trip to the subject property.
230 angry at jvi // Jan 4, 2012 at 12:15 pm
JVI is not paying up. What a shame because JVI is supposedly a company owned and managed by appraisers. They are over 60 days and they don’t know when they will be able to start paying.
what makes it worse is that you have to pay appraisalport to get their work. I hope we all turn it down upntil they pay.
231 robert hurley // Dec 30, 2011 at 2:29 pm
email corrected. the message is the same:
file a claim in Small Claims Court; AMCs do not show up. the judge provides a judgement against the AMC [they are now in comtempt of court]. send copies to the lender, state banking commission, and the state attorney general.
the money will arrive over night.
RAH
232 robert hurley // Dec 30, 2011 at 2:25 pm
I HAVE USED SMALL CLAIMS COURT
WITH 100% SUCCESS. AMCs ARE TOO BIG TO SHOW UP. THE COURT ISSUES A JUDGEMENT AGAINST THE AMC. SEND A COPY TO THE LENDER, THE STATE BANKING COMMISSION, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL. THE CHECK ARRIVES OVER NIGHT. RAH
233 20 year vet // Dec 21, 2011 at 10:22 am
For all those of you that are having long term problems collecting from the AMCs, open the file, call the lender directly and ask to speak to accounts payable. When you get connected, tell them you haven’t been paid for the appraisal. If they offer up it should come from the AMC,tell them who ther AMC is and that you have tried repeatedly. The checks wills come. Remeber, the HUD 1 has to be correct or else they are in big trouble with audiotrs and regulators. This happened to me in 1994. Not only did the banks pay, but the AMC paid for most later. The you have to figure out the refunds, etc.
234 Retired Appraiser // Dec 19, 2011 at 11:13 am
Seattle Gal
Don’t cash their check or they will argue that you accepted it as total compensation. If you must cash it mark “accepted as partial payment” on both the front & back and make photo copies.
Unfortunately this is standard procedure for most AMCs (large & small). Appraisers are forced to stay on their 1 man/home office tread mill 12 to 16 hours per day just to break even and they realize this. Who has time to fool with lawsuits in this market? Not many.
Commit to a New Year’s resolution and fire all of your AMC clients. Eating garbage & living in a homeless shelter are far more noble professions than consenting to bank / amc rape on a daily basis.
235 SeattleGal // Dec 16, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Collateral Management out of Cheyenne Wyoming is 90 days late in paying bills, then decides to “short” the check….we have a screen shot of what was agreed to. When that was pointed out we were told the “homeowner” has an issue with our appraisal….AND the appraisal is “In Review”…it’s been “in review” for over 90 days?? Just be forewarned….they will pay you whatever they FEEL like, not what they agreed to in writing.
236 sandu // Dec 15, 2011 at 1:54 pm
to crb- It seems that you cannot count the ball nor do have Even smarty like you can misspell a word- The substance of our ideas is more important than your lack of both, and most likely many others and join yours- One famous radio personality, Bob Grant loved to say this:’ Get of my phone, you j—‘plus,
We are not here because we need you-
Speaking of spelling- I do not need a ‘spelling dictionary’ like you do. There is a difference between that, and a simple typo’- also called sticky fingers- In modern times, even a ‘spell-checker’ can miss it. Merry Christmas to All, with one left out
237 Sac // Dec 14, 2011 at 4:41 pm
You have to be a complete ***off to work for LSI as a staff appraiser. They tried to recruit me and after I figured out what they were paying, it came out to 158.00 per appraisal. When these people call just tell them to kiss off. Merry Christmas!
238 crb // Dec 7, 2011 at 2:01 pm
appraiserNYC - you’re kidding, right? if not, well…you’re an idiot. learn to spell.
239 SRA Appraiser // Dec 1, 2011 at 7:35 am
LARRY - I just fax a “Pass due Invoice” plus 2-3 pages of their request, over and over at least 15 times. Do this 2-3 times a week for a couple of weeks, it generally works.
I had 1 amc call and said they will not pay, so stop faxing. I told them I will continue to fax till I die or they change their number and don’t publish it. They paid.
I also had 1 who wolud not pay, no fax # listed, so I called and called and 1 day so made I dropped an F bomb on the girl, she trans ferred me to manger and she cut a check that same day. Don’t give up, as most collection agency will tell you they just herass the hell out of them till they pay.
240 SRA Appraiser // Dec 1, 2011 at 7:22 am
Your right Clear Capital does suck. I did 1 appraisal for them, very large home, $600. I had a hard time collecting but I finally got paid. This is another amc which is on my black list.
241 appraiserNYC // Nov 30, 2011 at 11:59 am
to crb I wander why you are allowed to reply this way - If are so smart, where were you to worn your collegue appraisers- I let the moderator respond to this HighEndSingleBall’r, too
242 crb // Nov 30, 2011 at 10:34 am
hahaha. what do you expect from clear capital? it’s just two guys in a basement in tahoe. lowballers.
243 appraiserNYC // Nov 29, 2011 at 6:39 pm
This should be done via AVM for a $15 bucks fee-on line. Chase was at least $200,000 on my house for an appraisal done online in 2005, with over 65% equity- in time mtg payments, but the underwriter was worried -really- about the LTV- one more true story. 2-3 weeks ago I signed up with 3 or AMC’s looks like the ones described in this blog- oh, noo they did not flood me with orders, just the one I lost/ got re-assigned for accepting with comment- my mistake for asking. One of my trainees/ former, now residential on his own, asked me this summer, he was doing a 10 mils property with ocean/ bay view on Long Island, NY - this was like a third appraisal since Summer 2010. He got the fee raised, after long explanations. Last week he’s got it back. Residential appraisers’ E&O covers as per AMc’s demand! only $500k. On these properties, one could one adjustment for $300 to $500k. Since I can do commercial properties, I do carry a lot more, regardless that I never have a valuation problem and kept buyers, owners’ happy never guaranteed for lenders/ AMc’s. In spite of a crazy neck-ache I did read same earlier ‘readings’ from the ‘beginning of 2009, above’ and saw that many know and share over and over the same issues and in common lack of work/ confidence. I understand your frustation, and reflect how nice is to walk or bike or go fishing rather then get upset, and be pround that you are one of the first and many more going to do it too. I was not upset because I lost a job, but It felt like when I went fishing - bluefish 25 yrs ago on a party boat for and the skipper lost/ dropped my first 3 ones on the slippery deck- I told him that I normally don’t loose fish like that and not to touch my fish/ lines again. He did - I still won the ‘pool’ had my bere gave him a tip [ because I appreciate hard work]because was not his fault, it was their ‘culture’ to do so, and I was not going to change it, next morning I had 18 blues to clean up because I dont let others clean my fish, overall it was worst it, wasnt it ?
244 Clear Capital Sucks // Nov 29, 2011 at 1:55 pm
*** ****ly Pk Rd, ****,** ***80
Form Type: Appraisal Form-1004
Lender/Client: Chase
2780 Lake Vista Dr.
Lewisville , TX 75067
Due by: 8:00 AM PST on Saturday, December 03, 2011
Compensation: $225.00
MLS INFO:
Listing #****785
$3,249,500 (LP)
*** ****ly Pk Rd, ****, ** **80 *
Beds: 5 Baths: 6 (4 2) (FH) Sq Ft: 7760 Lot Sz: 1.000ac*
245 Clear Capital Sucks // Nov 29, 2011 at 1:50 pm
Clear Capital’s C&R Policy;
Clear Capital’s standard policy is to pay a fee that we deem to be customary and reasonable regardless of whether the assignment technically qualifies as a “covered transaction” under TILA. The appraisal fee has been calculated in a manner intended to establish a customary and reasonable fee for this assignment. Please note, however, that certain assignments may be found to be complex or to require an increased scope of work due to unique property- or assignment-specific characteristics.
246 appraiserNYC // Nov 29, 2011 at 11:51 am
Larry, I experience the same and I keep searching on how to do that There are few earlir posted responses [ above]
247 APPRAISERNYC // Nov 28, 2011 at 6:17 pm
Sorry, I usualy spellcheck it in WORD - the house is about one million dollars, owner is out of town, and I asked for a fee increase from a flat/ standard fee of 300$- as suggested, I did accepted the order with ‘condition’, I did not decline it-and I called the Contact- too
248 Larry // Nov 28, 2011 at 3:31 pm
I need your help guys. How can I start the process to collect unpaid appraisal’s fee from amc operating in Florida when the appraiser is located in Texas.
249 APPRAISERNYC // Nov 28, 2011 at 2:34 pm
This is what one / every appraiser gets, if accepts an ordere with conditions:
thiis was my reply: It appears that You don’t see the differece between gold and dust and I acceted with comments and respectfully I did not decline order I never decline an order however requesters have a choice to pay for a good appraisal or not So long
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
This the AMC’s reply: From: appraisals@appraisal
Date: 28 Nov 2011 1 To: <apestesi
Subject: Appraisal Message Notification
Thank you for the information, but this is our standard fee. I will go ahead and re-assign this order.
And so they Did. Did you see the ‘alert’ on FHA_HUD ??? it lloks like that are going down broke too, who’s next ? Who proptects the appraisers’ Fee?
250 crb // Nov 26, 2011 at 9:26 am
Looks like the creeps at Rels finally figured out what a joke “reasonable and customary” is and decided to drop therir fees.
251 JERRY MALY // Nov 25, 2011 at 4:54 pm
TO ALL THE GOV’T OFFICIALS, YOU HAVE DESTROYED THE REAL ESTATE MARKET THAT WILL TAKE A DECADE TO FIX.
WE WILL VOTE ALL YOU MORONS OUT.
“VOTE THE MORONS OUT.
252 mc appraiser // Nov 25, 2011 at 6:43 am
Im a full time appraiser gone part time for survival reasons…..just got my house appraised for refi…the appraiser came from an rural area 5 counties away. AFter discussing some sales in the neighborhood, he, came back with sales 55k - 60k lower 10% lower than what should be…..He showed profound experience as an appraiser, but, knew little of my area…….bottom line, Its the one time Im glad to be an appraiser today…my research and own neighborhood knowledge payed off…Heres the pitch: He disclosed and showed me his accepted fee of 300.00 for the FHA….I told him I paid the amc $495.00….he’s not happy… I told this appraiser the truth, I am getting 400.00 for the same product working part time…this is ridiculous!! ..Guys, Amc’s care less of you, your business and your appraisal industry as this has become a quick overnight lotto winning handed to them..(great job cuomo)….They WILL eventually have to pay a higher fee if you and all of us continue to hassle and request a higher fee with every order……Our only issue after the high fees is job and volume security…As amc’s will pay the higher fee, they will also cut you cold, or close thier doors owing thousands to appraisers(appraierloft), .. I dont blame the amc’s as any one of us would take the lotto winnings without questioning….I blame the irresponsible and thoughtless system forced upon us by our govt officials….as a business, we are now forced to depend and trust others (amc’s) with our business profits and revenue up front….we are dependent upon a handfull of amc’s for business and we are forced to give up a large unfeasable portion of our salary for work…it doesnt make sense and the officials, amc’s and lenders know it….AMC’S would agree, they should be paid seperatly and additionally by the lenders for their services..they should not have to depend on our salary cut for their profit … ..its a crazy rollercoaster ride without the benifits…. and we just keep hanging on..
253 appraiserNYC // Nov 24, 2011 at 10:42 am
It seems that West Coast appraisers are really standing way far west of America- why is it so difficult to post all views on this blog-every time I post my comments get ‘censored’ and magically - - -vanishes. The through is the all lenders and amc’s enjoy and exploit your deeply divided stand and calling ourselves as being ‘independent fee appraiser’ It sounds just good- and loosing heavily on your daily standard of living and with no control of your professional life in spite of holding a hard to achieve state license. How many of asked a doctor, lawyer or accountant for the state license, or malpractice insurance or five written professional cases they did worked on ? the whole industry is stigmatized and we all are humiliated each time getting an order, every day - Too harsh? well is probably because I do care to remain as ethical as possible until my last appraisal- Happy Thanksgiving Day once more_ AlexNYC
254 David // Nov 24, 2011 at 9:55 am
Victor
You are on the right track. Appraisers have the means to organize now via BankRape.com but few are signing up to do so. The key is to use an implied boycott which threatens to shut down the U.S. mortgage market while simultaneously creating a documentary which describes this story of greed, extortion, & blackmail. Piping this story into homes via streaming video is the solution to bypassing the media which refuses to cover the BankRape story.
If you have ideas on how spread word of this new appraisers gathering place please email me at info@bankrape.com
255 ALEXNYC // Nov 23, 2011 at 7:50 pm
Good morning Victor and all underpaid appraisers, unhappy —Have a happy Thanksgiving Day America !!! my comments and posting usualy disapear nor could be found-easy - Victor, see my previous comments - - -
Hello Mr Vidi, I call from New York City in behalf of few appraisers [ and myself] that ” just got lost”-
Who stands for the independent [?] appraiser Too many regulations/ too many organizations, too many of us not knowing [ AG of Appraisers / OPEIU???- a few know of it ]
We need to hear from you at your earliest convenience Thank you, Alex
I was able to place a comment on this major on-line site. You may view my comments:
http://www.workingre.com/workingre/open-letter-to-Feds-Banks-Citizens-Tax-Part-1-newsletter-page.html#HCB_comment_box
How many of you did call up or joined the place Victor is talking about it- It exists already there are too many societies, institues, foudations, etc that continue not help you the appraiser with LABOR issues- of which we are not experts
I recived this: Alex: Get in touch with Peter Vidi @ 301-220-1692. He is the National President of the American Guild of Appraisers, OPEIU of ALF-CIO. Dom Pompeo- - -I sugest that you should think it over - Thank you and God Bless America !
256 Victor Breuer // Nov 23, 2011 at 4:49 pm
We need to organize and fight back just as the Teachers union and all other’s, with tactics that include smear campaigns against these cheap players like Clear Capital and PCV Murcor. Nice glossy magazines will not do it!! full page ads in the Wall Street Journal and New York Times would help.
257 Shelli // Nov 23, 2011 at 2:01 pm
Why is anyone accepting a reduced fee? Do you go into the local grocery and, at check out, ask them to reduce your grocery bill? If you did ask them that question do you really think they would? NO. Does the local banker accept a lower pay for his week of work? NO.. Does the local banker that hires the AMC have to wait 90+ days to be paid?? NO… Do normal professionals raise their fees when work requirements elevate and their costs to produce a product elevates as well?? YES… Anyone that accepts any AMC order is part of the problem. If all would just say no we would not need this discussion blog. The answer is quite simple… I can all sit on my butt for free.. but if i accept orders for reduced fees, have the cost to produce the work out the window and then stupidly agree to get paid two or three times a year (if I get paid at all) I would be working my butt off to be in the negative… Be real here, not sure about others out there, but my costs are not going down. I pay 20-30% more for groceries, gas, every single thing I purchase. Why in the world would anyone accept more work for far less fees???? The excuse of “well… I accepted it because I was slow….” is perhaps the stupidest statement I have ever hear. You really accepted work that you knew was going to put you deeper into the red and deal with these companies and their stupid requirement and then agreed to not get paid until someone got around to doing it????? You just agreed to jump off of a cliff! Please quit commenting on how horrible the AMCs are, you make them what they are today. Quit accepting work from these places people… wow. Do not accept any fee split… why are you splitting your fee? Are the assignments from AMCs easier? Do they require less work? Do you get paid immediately upon delivery of the appraisal? Are you getting special, warm & fuzzy treatment from those that work at the AMC?? I almost can’t stop myself from continuing on here but I have better things to do…. the appraisals I submitted to a BANK a few minutes ago just got direct deposited into my account so I guess I will go do something fun… BECAUSE SINCE I WORK FOR MYSELF I determine the method of pay, time frame of pay and most importantly…. the fee I will get paid. Any client that I choose to allow to use my services has to agree to my terms… Kind of like when you hire someone to do a service for you… My requirement is that when the assignment is completed I let them know it is available for download.. they can direct deposit or send me a check, when I get the payment they can download their appraisal. Works for me.
258 John Pratt // Nov 23, 2011 at 9:48 am
If appraisers want to solve the problem of low fees and not getting paid by the AMC’s (Appraisal loft) they need to band together. The problem is that appraisers are very independent and won’t work together to solve the problem. If all the appraisers would band together and call a work stoppage until some changes are made we could solve both problems of low fees not getting paid by the AMC’s. Even if only 75% of the appraisers would honor the working stoppage it would be effective, 25% of the appraisers can’t handle all the work that is out there. Remember when an AMC gets an order from the lender they need to find an appraiser to complete the order, the appraisers have the hammer, they just need to use it. THE SOLUTION: All appraisals will include an invoice for the appraisers fees and it would be addressed to the “Lender/Client” not the AMC and the Lender is responsible for the payment. The AMC can not pay the appraiser. The lender can enter into any agreement they want to compensate the AMC for the service they provide. The AMC provides a service for the lender not the appraiser, the appraiser should not be paying for the service that the AMC provides to the lender. The appraisal fee is between the appraiser and the Lender not the AMC. The AMC could still negotiate a lower fee for the appraisal but it would not increase the fees they receive so they would be more concerned with quality than the fee to the appraiser. Also the lenders would know how much the appraisal is costing. If all appraisers would set a minimum of $ 400 for a full appraisal they would have no choice but to pay it. Appraisers are their own worst enemy, they are cutting their own throat by accepting low fee, band together, there is power in numbers. The AMC’s by broadcasting appraisal orders to several appraisers at the same time have taken a “divide and conquer” approach and the appraisers have let them get away with it.
259 Julie // Nov 23, 2011 at 9:44 am
Hard to feel sorry for an appraiser that racks up $10,000 in outstanding fees & continues to do work for the AMC when they have outstanding invoices after 30 days.
As some have commented - it is sad indeed to see how many of my peers continue to work with these thieves for slave wages - thanks a lot - from the rest of us that have refused to help turn this profession (wal-mart-ize) into a min wage job.
260 Liam Cunningham // Nov 23, 2011 at 7:53 am
My take on the AMC’s is, yes about 20% of the blame of the housing industry downturn is dirctly related to the a small percentage of appraiser’s. However there was no need of turning the appraisal business upside down. They could be another way of dealing with the problem. But, the person who develop the idea of the AMC’s is now govenor of New York. His committee did not spend enough time talking to appraiser’s. He had one agenda, being govenor of New York.
261 Mark // Nov 17, 2011 at 12:44 pm
Just called Financial Dimensions out of Pittsburg, ya another AMC in the Pitts area. My invoice is now 3 months pass due. I generally send 10-15 faxes with Pass Due Invoice on my Invoice, try to miss up their fax machines. It works sometimes. Anyhow the fax number was not working !!! so I called and spoke to a lady who said they only pay so many invoices per month. Seems to be a cash flow problem. WOW Anyhow she did add my invoice to the list. Problem is I still have 1 more invoice about 30 days due. Hope I get paid.
Appraiser’s beware of FDI and other AMC’s in the Pittsburg area. I really think there is just 1 big AMC with several different names.
Some AMC’s pay full fees now, but in the end they just don’t pay
262 casey // Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 pm
Wow…AMCs. I’ve just dug my heels in and stated this is my fee because I’ve learned they WILL call, call and call some more for any little change, question etc…so I make them pay the regular fee. I don’t haggle…I just decline. We only have a few in my county and I cover 5 counties and they are paying me what I ask. I do mainly rural properties and all that driving, wear and tear on the car and me…I get full fee or pass.
As for who is really bad: TSI- I cut them loose–too many folks who aren’t appraisers trying to tell you what to do, Unity Asset Mgnt–but they’ll call, call and call until they get the report then take >5 months to pay, Streetlinks–I cringe when I see an email from them- pesteration central.
Its true that if you hold your ground, they’ll call you back. I turned down 5 in one day from Altisource due to fee. I got 4 back within a week at my requested fee. Like I said, all that driving has to be compensated.
WE have the power…USE it.
263 Robert // Nov 9, 2011 at 3:14 pm
National Real Estate (NREIS) out of PA is the slowest paying AMC I’ve personally worked with. 75-90 days is average, even though they promise a max of 45 days. Collateral Management is comprised of a group of thieves - they will require the appraiser to treat every assignment as FHA, with case number to follow of course, and submission of a “draft” to determine loan type. Forget that. Equity Solutions is the best I’ve worked with, although they also try to drive the fee down. I don’t bother keeping names of the companies that have fees below $300, since I refuse to accept those types of assignments. IRR (whatever that stands for) likes to “offer” decent fees for complex assignments like retro field reviews, but getting payment is like calling the White House - good luck with that. Although I took Bradford’s CVR course (at full, previously undiscounted price), the alleged workload is a patently false statement by snake-oil salesmen. Their claim is that the CVR report can be completed in 30 minutes, so the low fee (rumored to be about $90 before Bradford takes $25 off the top) actually equates to a higher per hour rate. Right…sure thing. Stay away from that, too. With 21 years in the profession, my client base has always been local banks. I’m not a slave to secondary market lenders, so I don’t have to work with AMC’s unless I choose. I had one who flat out told me they were putting my name on a nationwide “black list” for being unwilling to both accept low fees and do umpteen revisions per report. Good luck, people - stay away from as many AMC’s as you can, contrary to what you hear from trade groups and associations - they get advertising money from AMC’s and are not to be trusted, either.
264 Tom M. // Nov 9, 2011 at 2:56 pm
Dear AMC appraisers:
These companies need us more then we need them. We are governed by a code of ethics under USPAP. The AMC’s don’t give a damn about us as there is always a hungry appraiser who will under cut your fees and turn times.
WE are required to perform a quality appraisal in the time it reasonably takes to do the job, the AMC will blame you for all errors, omissions, overvaluation, undervaluation, not using the right comps, etc. Tell the AMC’s to go to hell and hire someone else. Eventually, if appraisers stick together, demand adequate fees, adequate turn times, demand payment on time and refuse to work with AMC’s that lowball fees and have unreasonable turn times they will die. Only quality firms will exist and only good appraisers will succeed in this business. I have been in this business and have never and will never work with an AMC. According to the AMC’s a new appraiser with a new license is worth the same as an appraiser with 30 years of experience, a clean record, and no complaints. This is the only business where experience does not count.
If appraisers will not appraise properties for poverty level fees, banks can’t make loans.
Consider your cost of doing business; data fees, hardware, software, equipment, auto expenses, mileage, insurance (auto, E & O) wasted time on the phone or e-mails for stupid questions, etc. Then consider your fees, less all expenses and what are your real earnings per hour. When considering your hours consider the time needed to change the appraisal to the AMC’s needs and think of the fact that you already did the appraisal and now they want you to do it over for free because they can’t make the loan and they will not pay you for the additional time. When was the last time you asked your accountant/lawyer to redo a service and they did not charge you for redoing the service? Think about it…
In some areas you would be better off working for Home Depot, a fast food restaurant or some other job, they will pay better, give you benefits, retirement plans, medical coverage for you and your family, vacation time, etc.
AMC’s have destroyed the independence you wanted working for yourself. The appraisal industry is on the way out due to the banks, financial industries, regulators, etc. We are a dying industry due to a weak lobbying effort on the part of our Professional Organizations.
Every time the banks get in trouble due to mortgages they point a finger at the appraiser. We reflect the market that is inflated by the banks continued high lending amounts and continually fueling the buying frenzy.
Stop doing AMC work and see how fast the industry changes. The new statistics are finding that AMC’s are doing the same things that lenders and banks did by putting pressure on the appraisers for high values and redoing appraisals they find unacceptable because they can’t do the job.
I suggest that AMC appraisers request additional fees for changes and revaluations providing a revaluation is really justified. If the AMC says no, drop them if all AMC appraisers do this the AMC’s will pay you or they will have to pay someone else to redo the assignment. And remember once you send out an appraisal it can not be completely retrieved and can be used against you in a fraud investigation which could result in the loss of your license, fines and imprisonment. If you do an appraisal and redo it to make a federally regulated transaction work without real good reason (missed square footage, lot larger than originally considered) you have committed a FELONY.
265 Ken // Nov 9, 2011 at 1:37 pm
There is a simple solution, don’t do work for AMC’s that pay low fees. This is a profession, take it serious and hold your ground. If that doesn’t work, get out!
266 Karin // Nov 9, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Sorry, DON’T SELL your self short.
Working with kids, not easy.
267 Karin // Nov 9, 2011 at 12:29 pm
If appraisers can please team up, by not accepting
low fees, we would all have a chance to make reasonable money again.
Do sell your selfs short, it is only hurting this
industry.
268 Janet Bankston // Nov 9, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Want to know who the worst AMC is…AppraiserLoft in San Diego! I did a job for them back in January, and still have not been paid. I’ve called countless times and get the same ol’ song & dance. They act surprised, let’s expedite the check….one time they said they would send me a confirmation email…..what a joke! I had done assignments in the past it would take 3 months to get paid when their agreement is 30 days. I finally called the BBB, they gave me some offices to contact there. I’ve been so busy this year I’ve had very little time to pursue collection. It was a cheap fee, I was a fool to ever agree to work with them in the first place. STAY AWAY FROM APPRAISERLOFT…..RUN FOREST!!
269 Karin // Nov 9, 2011 at 12:24 pm
I totally agree with most to the comments. Who
is protecting the appraisers, what about all the
organizations we belong to, I don’t see them protecting us, we do pay them fees each
year. What is the National Association of Appraisers doing for anyone?
We need to start complaining to these companies who are supposed to be protecting us from such
treatments. Everyone is concerned, but we need to take a stance on this situation?? What do you
all think?? We need to team up, YES?
270 Bella // Nov 9, 2011 at 11:17 am
As an appraiser, I’ve realized it’s NOT always the AMCs fault. Lenders sometimes have unrealistic timeframes and fee expectations, and the AMCs are taking all the heat. I’ve worked with some pretty awesome AMCs, actually, and some slimeball ones - Equifax, AppraiserLoft, Landsafe, Residential Real Estate Review. Yes, SOME take 60% of the fee and do absolutely nothing, but there are others that need to make some money in order to operate. I consider myself to be a pretty decent appraiser, but even I make mistakes - and some AMCs spend a lot of time reviewing the report and asking me to make revisions in a totally professional and friendly way. I’ve even received a Starbucks card for a good homeowner review! I’ve worked with one particular AMC (WCCI) for several years and I absolutely love them; the people are nice and the fees are reasonable, and if I need more money they do what they can - but I know that they are ultimately bound by the LENDER.
271 Appraiser Micro // Nov 9, 2011 at 10:47 am
Lack of separated billing for the appraisers service, and the distinctly different amc services, cause for financial incentive for an amc to drive down appraisers fees for variable profit per order. As most amc’s operate with this business model, most amc’s prioritize speed and fee over quality valuation. Nothing short of forcing separation of fee will correct this issue. AMC’s state that appraisers should be profitable by efficient processes and volume discounts. Well if the shoe fits, the amc’s can wear that fixed cost per order shoe as well. // Additionally, I’m selling something completely different to the amc, than I am when completing appraisal reports. Quite honestly I’m fed up with having to sell a positive company man quick and compliant image to the amc, only to be held to a more diligent and impartial standard because I’m operating as in independent field appraiser. You’re average amc worker could not explain to you what valuation security means, or how valuation security relates to appraiser selection.
272 JOHNNY // Nov 9, 2011 at 8:47 am
Here is the real deal, as long as appraisers (many commenting here) are willing to work for pennies on the dollar and make excuses as to why, we will NEVER get AMC’s to pay R & C fees unless outlawed specifically. Noone here is going to out any AMC’s by Name. I would love out some but just to give you an idea on “how is that working for me” One AMC ( I only work for a few that pay full fee) that I work for, every time they call me to follow up on a survey they put out about their company and I feel about them overall, I have told them the truth about the 30-60 day payments and the lack of consistent work. They always act interested and then they REWARD me with NO work for weeks. So I am no longer going to work for them and if they dare to call me I will tell them what I think of their tactics. They used to pay me very well for high end work, but that stopped, they must have found others that will work for less money. Gee what a surprise!
Amen
273 James Tracey // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:35 am
We have been reduced to low paid data entry clerks. For free, we are dutifully inputting data for the Mortgage Bankers Association to come up with algorithims which will save THEM money and speed the process. There will be fewer appriasers able to stay in business, with few choosing to enter a dying profession, which in turn will increase the need to find other ways to deal with valuations. It is a downward spiral.
274 James Tracey // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:30 am
Street Links,Corelogic and LSI will also drive you crazy. Norman Hubbard wants 30% of your fee and then they drive you nuts. I quote a higher fee for these outfits to compensate for the harrasment and mental abuse.
275 James Tracey // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:26 am
I dumped AppraiserLoft a long time ago. Clear Capital is a chronic lowballer. Altisource is another. I don’t even reply to them any longer. Equifax is just short of being a torture unit. They have been lobotimized by checklists. I told them to please ,please stop sending assignments.
276 James Tracey // Nov 9, 2011 at 7:22 am
I have lost track off all the AMCs that I have dropped. Now, we are being asked to submit two versions of a bloated, ineffcient report only to have a reveiwer come back with inane and trivial concerns requiring resubmission twice over. Recently, one AMC was gushing about a new product that pays $50 ( they provide the data and someone else drives by!!! Unbelievable but true.) 24 hr turn time of course. Anyone who would sign such a report is crazy. They expect us to keep the lights on and the engines running for when they need a full appraisal.
277 Jackie // Nov 9, 2011 at 4:44 am
I only completed one this summer for Appraiser Loft when my work load was dead…@ half fee and never got paid…
278 David // Nov 8, 2011 at 7:04 pm
Anyone here stiffed by Appraiser Loft when milked appraisers for $3,000,000 and took bankruptcy? Nice work if you can get it.
I predict this is the wave of the future for AMCs. Seen it too many times lately.
279 crb // Nov 8, 2011 at 2:25 pm
Joke-Total
280 AN EVEN BIGGER LAUGH // Nov 3, 2011 at 9:02 am
LSI SENT ME AN ORDER THE OTHER DAY WHERE THEY WANTED TO KEEP 66% OF THE TOTAL FEE. THE WORST AMC OUT THERE.
281 Debi // Nov 2, 2011 at 11:30 am
Anyone else have a problem getting paid with Norman Hubbard out of New York? I have been hounding them since May for 1 appraisal fee (report done in march of this year) and they keep claiming they have sent a check-now they tell me they have sent it to the wrong address. My next step will be to contact the NY Real Estate Board as well as all their “references” on the website.
282 RLN // Oct 20, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Jason-Amen about wintotal. The worst. So many features that are such a waste of time. Awful program but its too late to change now.
283 jean // Oct 17, 2011 at 11:37 am
@APPRAISER BP -I totally agree with you, National valuations didn’t pay the fee in 60 days before. Yak, right, it is 45 days now. The appraisal fee is due upon delivery of the report.
284 jean // Oct 17, 2011 at 11:31 am
NationalLink is another bad one. They asked for 4 closed sales, comments on wildfire back in 2008 in Orange Cty, CA.
285 A good laugh // Oct 12, 2011 at 4:20 pm
LSI thinks giving the appraiser about 52% of the total fee is both customary and reasonable. Funny stuff.
286 Jason R. // Oct 7, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Does anybody else hate wintotal as much as I do? the amount of time I waste weekly becuase of this joke of an appraisal program is unreal. The most undependable software Ive ever used and they charge an arm and a leg for it. Horrible and their tech support is just awful.
287 Georgia Appraiser // Oct 5, 2011 at 3:25 pm
VMG - Valuation Management group will ask for an appraisal and after you send it in they will call back and say they need this and that and several other things. When you ask for more money since all the changes. they say this is what they wanted and you should read all the requirement. And when you check their site again, there they are, all the additional items they want for free. And when you don’t make the changes they will call someone else. and not pay. this managment co. is the pits.
Becarefull when dealing with vmg.
288 APPRAISER BP // Sep 28, 2011 at 8:02 am
NATIONS VALUATIONS IS SO BAD, THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT APPRAISAL! THEY STEAL MORE OF THE FEE THAN THEY PAY THE APPRAISER! THEY’RE CONSTANTLY SOLICITING NEW APPRAISERS IN ORDER TO PAY LOWER AND LOWER FEES! THIS AMC IS THE KING OF BOTTOM FEEDERS! DO NOT WORK FOR THESE SCUMBAGS!
289 Retired Appraiser // Sep 19, 2011 at 12:27 am
Keep an eye on http://www.bankrape.com
This site will focus entirely on the HVCC / Dodd Frank fiascos and the injustice that resulted from both with regard to homeowners and appraisers. The bare bones site currently online will give you an idea of what to expect. It should 80% operational within 2 weeks.
290 Jim // Sep 18, 2011 at 11:02 am
I have contacted local appraisers in my area, which is not a large city by any means (under 80,000 pop) and are working on agreements for acceptable price points for complex property. We know we are the bulk of the panel for several AMC’s out here, so if they continue to go to the guy that will take them for less $, eventually he will be getting killed with time consuming reports, and they will have to come to us. Screw Street Links, LSI, and Core Logic. SMart talk in this thread is right on with reagrds to reearch your subject, counter, and if they don’t take it, oh well. Your life is better off without it.
291 jj // Sep 18, 2011 at 4:51 am
Serious inquiry: Appraiser loft owes me near 3,000 for my services..thus, I am currently going into default with my mortgage as I depended appraiser lofts timely payment because I depended on appraiser loft to pay my fees. My question is, If I lose my home, can I sue appraiser loft and possilbly anyone whom was responsible for implementing this new hvcc/dodd frank rule stating appraisers cannot collect their own fees and must be paid through another party, appraisers must be compensated in a timely manner…
292 Mid Atlantic // Sep 17, 2011 at 1:17 pm
Appraiser Loft has stolen $2000± of professional valuation services from my company. They will not pay - its been nearly a year.
293 A. E. Gator // Sep 15, 2011 at 1:27 pm
LSI, US Appraisal Group and Street Links will work with you on fees for complex reports. I aslo quit taking orders from Appraiser Loft, they are the scum of the earth. Low fees, gimmie, gimmie the report. We will maybe pay you in half a year. If Appraiser Loft calls, RUN
294 Insert Your Name Here // Sep 15, 2011 at 7:39 am
In regard to other AMC fees, I have been pretty successful in negotiating with Streetlinks. I quit taking orders from Appraiser Loft - yes because they TAKE 6 MONTHS TO PAY THEIR BILLS. Believe me, aside from the few bad experiences, I have been very successful in servicing my market and adapting to the changes. If we avoid the dirtbag AMC work and focus on the higher quality AMC work, it will force fees to go up as other appraisers are forced out of business. We know who the good AMCs are, and they aren’t discussed much on these boards obviously because we don’t want to have every other appraiser rush to sign up and dilute the order pool.
295 Insert Your Name Here // Sep 15, 2011 at 7:30 am
Western Appraisals, which became EPIC Amc out of Nevada, still owes me nearly $3,000 from a number of appraisal that were done last year. I was paid on the bulk of the work and then this 1-man operation? (Cody Johnson) went out with the lender he serviced. They apparently hold AMC liciensing still and I will file formal complaints against them and with all associated agencies, since the unpaid bills are now over 1 year old.
296 Indy Appraiser // Sep 14, 2011 at 9:31 pm
I for one am lurking and surviving - brokering real estate part time, but I also have another good job with health care and other benefits. I currently accept less than 10 appraisal assignments each month and none for less than $250, which is more than I ever made as a trainee (a necessary part of our own problem perhaps). I always check the appraisal addresses before accepting and won’t take any “sticky booger” assignments by telling the AMC’s that I can’t meet their turn time because I am too busy with other work. I am hopeful that this low fee situation will turn around, but am not overly confident or disillusioned. Regardless, I worked hard to become Certified here in Indiana (for the past 10 years) and won’t let the license lapse (mainly because I am also a Realtor board member for brokerage and because I think that it helps me broker more real estate by telling prospects that I am also a C.R. Appraiser). I think that when all of the more seasoned veteran appraisers retire or find other jobs and all of the $150/report dips@#75 finally figure out they can’t afford to eat food anymore, things might just get a little better for people who have stuck it out such as myself. I received an interesting survey from the licensing agency that concerned training appraisers (why would or wouldn’t I; had I ever or never trained, etc.). For the record I haven’t and with the fees I get I can’t afford to start now. Evidently the anticipated shortage of competent appraisers here in Indiana may be on the verge of becoming a reality. Ask for and accept fees that you are worthy of being paid, adapt and overcome by opening additional revenue streams, and keep your chin up out there! Having said that…learn the Queen’s English and use it, do a good job of explaining your reasoning, and stop showing up for appraisal walk-through appointments in jeans and a dirty wrinkled shirt. If you want someone to think that your opinion is worth something then make an attempt to present yourself like you are worth the fee you complain you aren’t getting. As Gandhi said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.”
297 Glenn // Sep 14, 2011 at 8:50 am
If you want to make a good living as an appraiser, get out of residential appraisal. There are other alternatives. Look into them.
Re AMCs, don’t expect any help from the national or state government. “Regulations” will just be smoke and mirrors.
It is cheaper to pay politicians than to pay appraisers.
298 Shelli // Sep 14, 2011 at 8:39 am
I am not Monty Hall and I do not bargin back & forth for my fees, when I get a request for an appraisal I look up information on the property and tell the AMC what the fee is for the area and then add some to the fee since most have about 50 pages of stupidity requests & requirements. There will always be an idiot to take the order for the low fees but at least it wont be me. I work for myself not an AMC. Street Links is quite impossible to deal with and very slow to pay. I believe that the AMCs should have to direct deposit the appraisal fee before the appraisal is released. It is a constant battle to get paid but they want the appraisal within 24-48 hours which is unreasonable. My fees start at $375 but most are higher as I service rural areas with difficult properties to appraise.
299 don // Sep 14, 2011 at 8:28 am
appraiserloft pays $250.00 full report and takes 45 -90 days to pay the appraiser when they collect the fee from the homeowner before the apprasal is ordered.
300 don // Sep 14, 2011 at 8:22 am
Valuation Patners offer $200.00 for a full appraisal, $30.00 for a desk report
301 GB // Sep 14, 2011 at 7:13 am
HERE IS HOW I DO IT. I REGULARLY GET REQUESTS FROM AMC’S, SUCH AS LANDSAFE, LSI AND PCV MURCUR. THE ORDERS COME WITH A STATED FEE. I ACCEPT SUBJECT TO A FEE CHANGE TO MY REGULAR FEE ($400)+ ANY DELIVERY CHARGES (APPRAISAL REPORT, ECT) AND AN ADDTIONAL $25(FOR DEALING WITH AMCS). I GET ABOUT 30% OF THE ORDERS. THAT ALLOWS ME TO GIVE MY GOOD CLEINTS GOOD SERVICE WITHOUT CLUTTERING MY SCHEDULE WITH WORK I’LL MAKE NO MONEY ON. FYI, RUN YOUR COST FOR YOUR APPRAISALS. MY COST PER ASSIGNMENT IN A RURAL AREA IS AROUND $150. ANYONE ACCEPTING A $200 TO $300 FEE IS BETTER OFF WORKING AT THE GOLDEN ARCHES OR WALMART!!
JUST BECAUSE THEY OFFER A SET FEE DOESN’T MEAN YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.
302 John Pratt // Sep 14, 2011 at 6:42 am
The real problem is that some appraisers are still accepting assignments with low fees . I would email to the AMC if the fee was low and quote my fee, I never heard from them so I just quit responding to the request. If no one would accept the low fee they offered they would start calling appraisers in the area and ask for a quote and then take the lowest one they could find. Remember the AMC has to find an appraiser so if all appraiser refuse the fees they will have to increase the fee, they can’t go back to the lender and say they can’t find an appraiser. Some are still using the broadcast system quoting fees from $ 175 to $225 for a full 1004 with MC. My fee for a 1004 is $ 375. and up. My fee for a 2005 driveby or a Field review is $ 325 and aa desk review is $300 or more. When I get a request the first thing I do is look on MLS for some information on the propery before I respond. Then I quote my fee based on my assessment of the problems which I think the assigment will present. Be careful of reviews, desk or field, which use the terms Forensic or Enhanced, these can be more involved that the original appraisal. Read the assignment requirements carefully. Some I have done have been over 40 pages. I charge accordingly. My average fee for all assignment over the past 6 months is 0ver $ 400/per. Until all appraisers refuse to work for low fees the problem will not get better. I get less assignment now than I did before but I get a good fee for each assignment. I have raised my fees since UAD and now charge $ 425 for a UAD compliant 1004. You can get these fees if you demand them. You may get less work but you will make more money for the work you do.
303 Jim Fisher // Sep 14, 2011 at 5:44 am
I’ve been in this profession for twenty-five years and have at various times worked for AMC’s (LSI, Landsafe, e-Appraise-IT, Kirchmyer, etc) with some success and some failure. We have to remember WE are the PROFESSIONAL in the equation. Anyone can become or be employed by an AMC, we are the one’s licensed and regulated, and therefore held accountable. No one else (in the industry) is required to be educated, licensed, and insured, so why as Professionals do we allow others to set OUR fees. When was the last time you went to your accountant, lawyer, doctor, or dentist and said “Here’s what I’m willing to pay for your service, do you want the job?”.
This morning I received an e-mail from an AMC touting their “personal” relationship with the major players in MY market and if I sign up at their fee, I could benefit. Funny, three years ago, I was the one with the personal relationship with the major players in my market; somehow it’s a good thing for the AMC to have, but not the appraiser.
Wasn’t it WAMU and their AMC that started this whole damn mess to begin with?
304 sal // Aug 11, 2011 at 5:36 am
Got an assignment last week from one of three major AMC that i have been working with for over 2 years.Amc fee was 250. I counter offered with a reasonable 325. I did a quick preliminary data research on the property, had to call dept of build, sched appt with broker as it was an asap order, appt set for next day. Then AMC counteroffers me with 275. I counteroffered with 300.00. Same day i get a call from a disappointed broker saying he just got a call from another appraiser to do the job and does not want to change my appt now, said he’d rather stick with me than go through all the explaining regarding the subject situation… Im sick of this business… Im done. Looking for another job, gonna try and do this part time for extra so I dont have to depend on this job for income. Cant depend on this work any more. no security, no benifits, to much added work and liability too little pay.
305 APPRAISER BP // Aug 10, 2011 at 3:50 pm
COULDN’T AGREE MORE ABOUT LSI. THE ABSOLUTE WORST. ANYONE ELSE SEE THAT 60 MINUTES? LPS IS A SCANDALOUS COMPANY. LSI IS JUST A BRANCH OF THAT SLEAZY OUTFIT. I HOPE THEY ARE SUED INTO EXTINCTION.
306 Sharon // Aug 5, 2011 at 8:43 am
Didn’t part of the dreaded Dodd-Frank bill state that appraisers were to be paid within 60 days of report delivery? I guess there is another presumption for that too. Who, if anyone, is enforcing any of this?
307 Joe Batrich // Aug 4, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Oh, and the fees collected? They need to be paid immediately, not when the loan closes. Years ago, appraisers were compensated upon delivery of the report. when the real estate market picked up, as a courtesy, we allowed lenders to pay at closing. We do not appraise contingent upon a loan closing. Lenders/AMC’s request us to provide an opinion of value. Appraiser’s don’t care if the loan closes, our work is done, pay the invoice!
When lenders compensate an appraiser contingent upon a closing, they violate banking laws. Collecting the full fee is not optional.
As for AMC’sand or lenders who deduct money if the appraisal is not done by the due date, fine, but make sure you pay us additional money if we beat the deadline too. In this screwed up market, it takes time, more time than ever to find good comps, verify the information, and inpput the comparale into the report. If the appraisal is a difficult assignement, not only should it cost more money, but compensation should NEVER be reduced, lenders are only forcing us to do a crappy job by setting deadlines, then threatening us by reducing our fees if we can’t make the deadline. Some appraisals are easy, some are hard.
Don’t let the AMC’s or lenders allow any clauses in the engagement letter to allow them to reduce your fee for anything!
We need to formulate a list of lenders and AMC’s who do not pay in a timely manner, those that make riciculous requests and eat up our time elaborating on the obvious.
We need to be able to fight back and one of us is not enough to handle the job, nor is any organization NAIFA or IFA or any other organization, they only take your money, there is no benefit to being affilliated to any organization unless you are getting your MAI, the only designation that really matters.
By having a list, we are able to keep the bad AMC’s at bay or out of the market all together, this includes small community banks in large metro markets.
308 Joe Batrich // Aug 4, 2011 at 12:07 pm
AMC’s are the worst thing to happen to appraisers. You have an unlicensed, unregulated so called business who picks up the phone to find an appraiser who will appraise for the lowest possible fee. What do lenders get for their fees? Junk! I have reviewed hundreds of appraisals over the past 5 years, I am appalled at the quality of work being put out, the laziness of some appraisers and the ethics, which are still compromised. AMC’s have done absolutely nothing to help the industry or protect the investors, ie. lenders. On top of it all, AMC’s are not appraisers, they may staff appraisers, but it is a violation of USPAP to review appraisal work if you are not completely familiar with the local markets (hint- MLS information DOES NOT constitute knowledge of the local market). So appraisers are stuck dealing with eggheads in other states who have no idea about the local markets and are telling honest, ethical appraisers how to do their job. In some cases, they can detect fraud, but in most, they have no clue.
WE, appraisers, need to take responsibility for our work. I don’t know of one appraiser who wants an unethical appraiser working in his/her market because it reflects poorly on all of us. Appraisers need to collaborate, review each others work BEFORE it even goes near an AMC. WE, appraisers, need to be the ones reviewing the work of our peers, not some schmuck in another state and certainly not an uneducated person from FANNIE MAE. And WE need to be the ones properly compensated for the review, not an uninformed person in another state. Given the enormously stupid request I have been asked to fulfill by AMC’s, it is a total waste the appraiser’s time, FANNIE MAE does NOT need to make any request of an appraiser. AMC’s just need to be gone. I have almost 20 years in this business, I have invested a lot of time and money in building a client network, all extinghuished by these fly by night AMC’s who come in, some collecting “membership” or “registration” fees and then send you nothing. On top of it all, you send them very personal information, i.e. social security numbers, for what? If the AMC’s send you more than 3 appraisals, then they can ask for a w-9, until then, it’s none of their business.
Now lenders are basically telling us, we are going to reduce your workload using the data we collect off your reports, ie. the UAD. More work for us to do, but are any of you appraisers going to be smart enough to raise your fees? You must be compensated for the piecemeal work done, if the AMC’s want more work out of you, certainly be smart enough to realize it cost YOU more money. Any changes or additional work required should be an increase in the fee period! How many idiots do you think will leave money on the table and just do it for free?
People, you need to wake up!
309 Ray // Aug 4, 2011 at 8:03 am
Screw it…I’m closing up shop.
I can do better than a $15 dollar an hour job.
I refuse to help the AVM world.
Here is 25 years down the drain.
310 Brett // Aug 1, 2011 at 8:14 am
With regards to KellyTs comments on UAD. I couldn’t agree more. I think UAD is synonymous with AVM. As for the low fees and AMCs….we have read it all before. Until we say “NO” to the low assignments and demand competent underwriting, things will stay the same or get worse.
311 JBR // Jul 29, 2011 at 3:24 pm
LSI is the worst. They pay THE lowest fees, expect the most unreasonably fast turn times, and demand the most extra work and silly addenda. And then then they act like I am so lucky to be working for them. Creeps.
312 John S/New York // Jul 21, 2011 at 5:33 am
Ditto,
Not only do they pay late they expect a narrative appraisal. There requests are beyond
insulting. We were asked for a matched pair to support our acreage, bath, gla and garage adjustments!! So much for 25 years experience in teh business. One question which made by head explode was “What makes you think someone will pay more for 2 baths vs one?…can you send me a matched pair? Get a life…..
313 capaa // Jul 17, 2011 at 8:45 am
I have to tell you, that I also have done jobs for appraiserLoft and have the same problem to get paid.
They are not paying the appraiser on time and if anyone complain about it they wont send them jobs anymore. Its like they are controlling our life and you have no choice if you need to run your business you have to do it with their ways, low fee, fast, and late pay, and whatever no complain.,,,,,
314 Retired Appraiser // Jul 14, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Reminder:
APPRAISER LOFT…AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!
I’ll be happy to provide you with an invoice dated 2 years ago and a payment check dated this month.
315 WILL // Jul 12, 2011 at 5:26 pm
YEP, THANKS CUOMO…YOU KILLED APPRAISAL. NICE TO KNOW THAT YOU OWN STAKES IN MORE THAN ONE AMC!
316 Mark // Jul 11, 2011 at 6:59 am
I have had problems getting paid from Broker Price Opinion. It seems that they only pay so many appraisers each month. When money runs out the appraiser has to wait till next month to get paid. Run this business on a shoe string. Some day some one (appraiser) will not get paid.
Service Link is also a very slow payer. I now charge extra up front to make up for the slow paying. I even told them when they question my latest fee increase. I really don’t care if they call or not.
317 KellyT // Jul 6, 2011 at 7:03 am
I agree with the complaints lodged by appraisers regarding AMC, HVCC and the appraisal industry in general. However, many of us are to be partially blamed for the current state of affairs. In 2006 I took an AI class in Las Vegas and engaged several classmates in conversation. Many enjoyed the benefits of their trainees labor (one appraiser had five trainees) while paying them a 25% split. One guy boasted he had a “cushy nine to five job” making gobs of money while his trainees worked well into the evenings and often on weekends. These former trainees, many probably not very well trained while their “Supervisory Appraiser” rubber stamped the reports and collected the fees, are the same appraisers accepting the lower fees from the AMC’s (to them, doing work for an AMC is a pay increase). With inflation, higher interest rates and UAD coming our way (UAD=database for AVM’s in my opinion), our services will be in less demand. I am appraiser with 18 years experience and have little confidence things will get better for our industry in the near future.
318 Retired Appraiser // Jun 30, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Jill & S.H.
I would love your assistance with the National Appraisers Boycott. You’ve arrived at the same place where several others appraisers have (broke and angry). Would love to chat with you if you are angry enough to help out. I can be reached at: davidf104@aol.com
NEWS FLASH
Closed my appraisal practice in July 2009. Just received payment for my last appraisal (completed for Appraiser Loft 2 years ago). Unfortunately they failed to pay the 2% per month late fee that has accrued over the past 24 months. We’ll be taking them to court.
One more example of how the HVCC extortion business model is continuing to squeeze appraisers out of business.
319 S.H // Jun 30, 2011 at 11:36 am
I am in the proccess of leaving the business. I saw this crap comming. It is a crying shame the way appraisers are treated now. Low fees, need it in 48 hours, bugged to death after report is complete, spending time on sensless status reports instead of appraising, etc. Let it be today that we decide to stop starving and establish the minimal fee for a1025 is $300.00 with no crappy MC sheet. Goodby!
320 Jill // Jun 29, 2011 at 5:30 pm
I am writing an appraisal eulogy:
quality and experience dont count anymore all that is necessary to get a job is for you to bid low to the AMC’s to be the lowest on the block to get the job. PCV is now farming out to call centers in India. So when the indian girl who gets paid 50 cents an hour called and offerd a job for $75 for a full 1004 I said this is it, I am done with this, but before I go i will write to every member of congress, I will write the president and off course I will give my full energy to this wifebeater Andrew M. Cuomo . Thanks to Andrew M. Cuomo for this mess. Andrew M. Cuomo created the miserable condition that we in the appraisal business are in now.
321 Debby // Jun 29, 2011 at 5:05 pm
PCV Murcor just sent me a cancellation fee for a job and the fee is .19 cents a mile. I drove 42 miles round trip in city traffic back to my office after i was refused entry on a scheduled appointment. PCV Murcor pay for this is .19 cents per mile . i got paid $7.98 for three hours waste of time. I am done with AMC’s This is my last job that I will accept from PCV or maybee I am seriously thinking that I am done for good with appraisals , its becoming now very clear that Cumo and obama have destroyed the whole appraisal line
322 Nancy // Jun 28, 2011 at 5:41 am
I agree with you all - most AMC fees are way too low. These AMC’S do not take into consideration the expenses to run an appraisal business — very costly to have everything we need to run our business correctly. I have, however, been working for 2 companies that have changed their tune - in FL - I’m called and asked what my fee is - I give them what I feel is reasonable for the product - which is $150 -$175 higher than most Amc’s pay - and they have no problem with it - I am being paid in 14 days or less — amazing!!!! There is hope…. A comment on Street Links - I got 1 assignment from them - I was e mailed and called by their on staff appraiser - they did not agree with my value, thought it was too low, and I’ve never received any more work. That was 2 years ago - that same property, which I followed, had refinanced (with a different appraisal I’m sure) and is now in foreclosure….No pressure??????
323 WILL // Jun 2, 2011 at 6:13 pm
REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY FEES, WHAT A JOKE! HOW’S THAT PANNING OUT FOR EVERYBODY? I KNEW NOTHING WOULD CHANGE! AMC’S ARE FILTHY CROOKS! THEY ARE ILLEGAL!
324 Thomas Frye // May 26, 2011 at 5:54 am
To George and Anthony,
It is obvious that you are the good ol’ boys I am talking about. If you don’t know what that mean , ask somebody.
325 Sandu // May 25, 2011 at 8:22 pm
To Congressman Mike Fitzpatrick,
We the Appraisers,
The few and Proud and honest- I mean Honest
We provide the fair market value estimate of each of the million of properties
That are purchased/ sold in last decades
Creating Huge profits to all bankers/ lenders/ middle persons, brokers,
[ and in addition they got the stimulus money too ]
Agents, investors and speculators, good money for all of those.
Except for the person called Appraiser, Doing its job with high ethics
And receiving the blames, and more blames, and more ‘guidelines on how- to – do ethical work’
Yes, for decades,
Excluding a deserving fair fee for his/ hers honest work .
The mystical $300 fee for one family appraisal, for more than a decade,
Was ‘given to every appraiser regardless of the appraisal complexity
Just because was printed down of the mortgage originators’ form, decades ago.
Free market free enterprise … it was moves the free people
Except the American Appraiser
Many appraisers are saying similar things in different ways, the bottom line is simple,
Look at us, and see how un-ethical the American Appraiser is forced to conduct work, to make a living,
While is being kept under the boot of ‘regulators, legislators, banks, politicians, presidents.
I have believed long ago in very simple way to ‘regulate’ the appraisal industry,
Before the state licensing days,
Study, share your experience with the new appraisers, work hard and diligent,
do your job well every day and sleep well at night,
So you could enjoy life in America.
Sad, but No – it is not an anecdote.
God Bless America !
Thank you Sir,
Alexandru M. Pestesi
917 650 3097
AppraiserNYC@Hotmail.com
aPestesi@gMail.com
in support of you and all
• FJG // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:21 pm
326 Southeast US Appr // May 25, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Detour around Appraiserloft unless you just need experience or enjoy doing appraisals for free. From an inside source, they have a backlog of several thousand reports yet to be paid for, owing 6+ figures to several hundred appraisers. Avoid this group at all costs!!!
327 FJG // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:21 pm
ALL: IMPORTANT READ AND REPLY
I will be meeting with Congressman Mike Fitzpatrick in approximately three weeks to ask for his supoprt in stopping Banks and AMC’s from stealing our appraisal fees and to make sure the consumer gets what they are paying for.
The Congressman is on the Financial Services Committee.
It is my belief that this is the final showdown for our profession and I am not giving up on something I worked so hard to build the past 20+ years. Therefore I am personally taking action. Nothing will be Sugar Coated in this meeting.
You can help me.
I have created an email address for you to voice your concerns. I will PERSONALLY hand your concerns to congressman Fitzpatrick to further support our position.
Please do something for your profession. Be professional but direct with your opinion.
Send to:
ToCongressmanFitzpatrick@profapp.com
AMC’s, Lenders and Banks are raking in Millions of dollars off the backs of appraisers. Take five minutes to help yourself today.
Frank G.
328 Josh // Apr 28, 2011 at 2:11 pm
TSI=scumbags
329 bubby1 // Apr 28, 2011 at 12:54 pm
Get this. TSI is now hiring staff appraisers to the tune of 40 bucks an appraisal. And I quote: “We want quality appraisers for quality reports” When asked what do you pay for that quality? Reply: “We pay based on volume” Ha ha ha
How the hell do you get quality reports for 40 bucks a piece? You have to do a minimum of 10 assignments per per week to make less thank 40% of the appraisal fee they get. Do you think they will get quality or lots of re-considerations for the crap they get because of the volume the poor bastard has to do to feed the family.
Had to share this.
330 Lori Mitchell // Apr 28, 2011 at 9:41 am
I have also been signed with Streetlinks for 3 years and have never received an order. I had an AMC email me yesterday wanting me to appraiser an “Green House” but only wanted to pay $250. I just simple refuse to take on complicated appraisals…or any appraisal for that matter…….for a lowball price! We need to stick to our guns and not let them run us over!
331 James Tracey // Apr 27, 2011 at 10:27 am
It isn’t just the consumers the AMCS want to hide fees from. It is the lenders. They don’t know what the lowball fee is either. I just ran into a mortgage broker who was vry pissed to know he was being billed $450 when the AMC wanted to pay $245 to the appraiser. Hang in there. Something will have to be done about this.
332 FJG // Apr 21, 2011 at 5:11 pm
I heard through the grapevine today that Ginny Gibbs from the Federal Trade Commission Stuck it to the AMC’s for getting the wrong signal with the C&R agenda. GO GINNY !! Keep calling or emailing your complaints to OCC for Banks and FTC for AMC’s. OCC 800-613-6743 FTC 872-382-4357
333 FJG BLOW YOUR MIND // Apr 18, 2011 at 1:55 pm
CHECK THIS OUT !!! Ive been approved with Street Links for over 5 years and never ever received and assignment from them. TODAY I get an FHA sent to me. THE CATCH Those idiots had my old fees. Ha ha ha. They swear its not fee driven. Does anyone believe that? I promptly called them back and explained they need to pay me my FHA Fee. They DID change the fee for me. BUT, do you think I will ever get another order from them? NOT They are all full of crap. Its fee driven. If you cave in we are doomed. HOLD YOUR GROUND
334 FJG // Apr 18, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Look at what RELS is doing. Trying to screw us again. They are hiding this in the order specific guidelines.
Order Specific Guidelines
By accepting this assignment you are acknowledging that the indicated appraiser fee is a “customary and reasonable” fee in the market area of the subject property.
335 Roger // Apr 15, 2011 at 6:35 am
I plan to write to my congressional representative about the low fees that are more in line with 10 to 15 years ago than what is customary and reasonable in todays market. This is an issue that was specifically adressed by the law and should not be occurring. I think writing to the federal agencies that are supposed to be handling complaints will result in months of delays. Let your representative help with this. Let’s all make an all out landslide of letters to congress about these violations of law and the antitrust monopoly that the AMCs have over the market.
336 Wendy // Apr 14, 2011 at 8:08 am
@Cindy! Boy are you right!! I had to chase them for months for a check. We have friends that had to chase them for 120 days for $3,000+. They are supposed to be ran by an “ethical” appraiser, but I think not!
I did an appraisal for them, busted by rear to get it in in their turn time and then I got an email back saying they had cancelled it and utilized one of the appraisers in the area that does most of their work. I never got a cancellation email. So, I was out 2 days worth of work and $375. Nice!
337 RMK // Apr 13, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Dont accept any orders from Andy Gamba from AppraisalHub in San Francisco or Roseville, CA. Your nightmare will begin. He is managing for Lenders and dont talk about payments. Be careful with this guy.
338 Belinda // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:36 am
I am in Colorado and currently have very little work and have had no assignments recently that I can accept due to low fees and unreasonable turn around time. Recently an AMC wanted me to do a drive-by for $150.00. Okay, if it were a neighbor or a nearby neighborhood. However, this was a rural property on 10 acres. (And they wanted comps within 1 mile) It costs me $200 to drive out of my driveway in most cases (hours on computer, gas, time, etc.) Currently, appraisal work is paying less than working at a fast fo0d joint! In addition, I get dinged for errors that aren’t errors. They question something such as why is there a well house on the property if they are on public water?? (It’s a 100 year old house!). Why can’t reviewers read the whole appraisal first? This would eliminate 90% of my “errors”. They still blame me for their useless questions that have very little to due with value and the purpose of the appraisal.
In addition, I have found that reviewers in the eastern part of the US have no clue about mountain properties and how difficult these appraisals are to write up. They still want comps within a mile. The closest house may not be comparable and can be 2-3 miles away! Get a clue reviewers. Read the appraisal before rejecting it for “quality issues”. The information is usually in there and is more accurate than what your opinion is. (Appraisers touch, feel, see, and smell the property… You are looking at a piece of paper, and if you were to read the whole report, you might even see pictures describing the property!)
339 Bryan Knowlton // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:55 am
We must unite and demand higher fees from the appraisal management companies. A national boycott to bring national news attention would be a good place to start. This is a highly skilled position that we hold as a real estate appraiser and it is only fair to get paid properly for the amount of hours we put in to providing a professional opinion of value!
340 Donald Lentz // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:27 am
It sounds to me that many appraisers ‘out there’ have not done their homework on the cost(s) to be in this business. Frankly, for any AMC or any client of ours who expects us to ‘fire-up-the-car’ for less than $325.00 can go fish for someone else who does not have a handle on the hard cost(s) to be in this business. What are you willing to work for as an hourly rate???? And you call yourselves ‘professional’. You can make more money being a nurse than doing appraisals for cheap paying AMC’s and have the hospital pay your liability insurance not to mention your health care. Forget about the lender/client relationship and the customer. You are ‘open for business’ to make a healthy profit as a ‘professional’. Stick to you guns and refuse the low paying AMC’s……………demand more money and have fun doing it
341 George // Mar 24, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Guess I’m done. It is late March and an AMC told me checks were late because of year-end book-keeping. Last week I got an e-mail “the check is in the mail”. It’s my CE and license year…plus the software service contract! Have a relative suggesting a real job…I think that’s the way. Appraising has become a job you don’t even want to admit to…nor can you afford it.
Strange…8 years ago I was farming out work…LOL.
342 Cindy // Mar 22, 2011 at 11:21 am
I thought I would join in and post my opinion about APPRAISER LOFT!! This is one of the worst companies to complete appraisals for. They have low ball fees and an autodialer that doesnt stop. Talk about PRESURE as soon as you accept the order the non-stop phone calls start and it doesnt matter if you have updated the file via the website or not. The fun doesnt stop there once you finish the job then you wait to get paid!! Going on 4 months now still no payment. I have also been removed from the rotation not once but twice since 2009 most recently for my refusal to change an order when they ordered and enhanced field review and really wanted just a regular field review. The forms are completely different they expected me to transfer for free, when I didnt I was removed from the appraiser list. The last time they just simply refused to tell me why I was removed and attacked me verbally over the phone when questioned. So I am going to blog the shit out of Appraiser Loft I am also filing a complaint with the State of California today.
Moral of the story KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. THIS IS BULLSHIT AND I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE
343 Appraiser Elvis Has Left The Profession // Mar 18, 2011 at 9:48 am
Face it guys. If you’re not an inhouse appraiser for a bank…you’re an OUTHOUSE APPRAISER for an AMC.
Unfortunately OUTHOUSE APPRAISERS are paid exactly what outhouses are meant to cover up. Get a clue.
Organize
Refuse AMC work from now until HFO
and PROFIT.
All you need is a great domain name, a website with a petition stating that you agree boycott, and a network marketing way to collect email addresses (each collects 10 and adds to the database). Everyone then votes on a date for starting the boycott on the webpage.
If you’re waiting on Dodd Frank to solve the problem you’re in for a big big surprise.
344 Josh // Mar 18, 2011 at 9:26 am
P.S. - Im a RELs staffer too but as soon as the market picks up I’m quitting. They LIED to us all! They are SCUM.
345 Josh // Mar 18, 2011 at 9:19 am
June - They flat out LIED to you about the new compensation plan, didn’t they? Said it was a way you could make even more money? HAHAHA. Maybe if you work 8o hrs a week. RELS is a joke, but the worst of the big AMCs is hands down LSI. Lowest fees with the most required work. LSI SUCKS!!! Nations Valuations is really bad too. Bottomfeeder idiots that know NOTHING about the industry except how to STEAL from appraisers. AMCs think appraisers have been making too much money and feel like its there right to steal from us.
346 June // Mar 16, 2011 at 6:09 pm
Oh yeah, I am currently buying a house and financing it thru Wells Fargo. I had to pay $400 for an appraisal that used a “fee appraiser” who totally blew off a HUGE power tower located directly behind the house. Via matched paired analysis, the discount should have been +/- 5%. But I am an AMC staffer and only get +/- $178 for the same appraisal. I WOULD HAVE NEVER MISSED THE POWER TOWER AND THE DISCOUNT!!!
347 July // Mar 16, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I agree with Lindy, RELS is the a SHADY AMC. Don’t bother with them - they will take your eye teeth and your license if they can and give you next to nothing on an appraisal assignment. I do not agree with Lindy’s assessment of Wells Fargo, however. You have to understand that WF does not OWN RELS, it is just a minor shareholder (HVCC).
348 June // Mar 16, 2011 at 5:40 pm
I work as a staff appraiser for an AMC and I am FULLY fed up to my eyeballs with their lowering fees/commissions, “creative pay schedules”, etc. I HATE my job, and I am finding that I am slowly reverting to “bad appraisal practices” due to AMC pay and feedback on my appraisals by on-staff reviewers who are located +/- 3000 miles north of my market area and the time/effort it takes me to complete one appraisal for them. I directly blamb the HVCC since it forced me out of a great bank staff appraisal position and left me at the mercy of the AMC’s. Now I am forced to work for an AMC at +/- 60% less than I was paid just over a year ago (plus I had to pay for a car, expenses, and education/licensing, etc. out of my own pocket). The HVCC can go to to “you know where”.
I was thoroughly trained by World Savings and have received many awards for quality, production, and customer service. But the AMC I am working for takes great care that none of the staff appraisers know how to contact each other (a sure sign of dissention among the troops), double-talks any questions we may have, and continually “discounts” their appraisal fees to the lenders to get more business without consulting the appraisers who are taking the hit for the discounts. In January, 2011, the typical “discounted fee for the staffer” for a conventional, non-complex appraisal commission for me was $177. It has now dropped to $148. Where did the rest of the money go???? In January, I received $177 for that same appraisal. Now with the “new creative pay scale” I have to factor in a $10/hr “wage” (most likely less than a convenience store clerk) minus a $2,800 of revenue/per 2-week period. After the $2,800 is met during the 2-week period, I receive only 40% of the appraisal fee vs receiving a 48% commission overall - I have taken a +/- 12% cut in the last month alone. Not to mention the further discounts the AMC is giving to the lenders ($177 vs $148 per appraisal). Oh PLEASE. SCREW ME SOME MORE. I feel like I am being RAPED!!
Someone has to stop this nonsense. Please help!! I am seriously considering going back to “fee appraising”, and soon.
349 Julie // Mar 16, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Beware of the managment company located in Maryland, Delaware and Virgina called 3SRealserv Inc or Steelsoft. They haven’t been paying the appraisers and the bank has already paid them. Its been 9 months now since I haven’t been paid they owe me $4,800. I heard that is the amount they owe all of the appraisers.
350 Retired Because Of AMCs // Mar 15, 2011 at 3:11 pm
To Indentured Appraiser
Why do so many appraisers fear organizing or “unionizing”?
If we had an appraiser’s union 2 years ago and the dues had been $75,000 per year you would have likely came out ahead (assuming they forced AMCs to pay fair fees within months).
Don’t worry about it. It will all magically disappear if you simply close your eyes and dream of a better day.
NOT
351 Retired Because Of AMCs // Mar 15, 2011 at 3:06 pm
PCV Murcor & Street Links
aka
PVC Mediocre & Street Lunks
Beyond a doubt these are the worst of the worst.
Poor fees, threats to withhold payment if you use new comps to alter the value. 8 to 10 calls per day on a single order (even when you’re within their 23 hour deadline).
Spare yourself a heart attack…and just say no to these two.
352 salvo // Mar 6, 2011 at 8:40 am
Amc’s are in business for profit as well as any other business. They too, have bottom line and expenses to meet. Unfortunately, they have been given the opportunity and power with only one means and option of acquiring their fees and that is at the expense of the appraisers salary, this is unfair to the AMC and APPRAISER AS WELL. Amc’s owners are doing what any other business and person in this industry has/would do, simply cut throat and defend their bottom line to survive. This process of allowing amc’s from taking control and salary from an appraiser at any expense is where we have our issues, not “C & R” fees. AMC’S should not be force to have this only means of getting paid. Amc’s should be paid separately and independently through the loan proceeds and not the appraisers income. Appraisal businesses should have the liberty of running their own business, collecting their own C &R fees at the door or at closing through loan proceeds as well as competing with other appraisers for business in regards to marketing, quality, competency and fees. AMC’s only purpose should be to be unbiased and unselectively distribute assignments according to geographic areas and appraisal expertise ONLY, which would eliminate any unnecessary AMC business / payroll expense. Banks/lenders and Appraisal boards should have quality check staff on board in their underwriting dept. AMC’S can be a great benefit to this industry if the process is handled right. Once again, this is a no brainer.
353 salvo // Mar 6, 2011 at 7:42 am
No negative comments please, just realistic ones…After trying out and working for many AMC’S(some ok, some NOT, some nice, some not, hanging in there in hope for change that would bring my Appraisal career some monetary and beneficial reason to continue on, I have decided to look at slowly weeding out of the Appraisal business and seek other options for employment in the near future(just in case!). Although I love the business it once was and admire my fellow appraisers, a full time job seems to be more appealing in my opinon and yes, I realize, opinions are like…). I come to realize the issue is not just the AMC’S or C & R Fees. It is the in whole, the Appraisers, govt, banks and industry in whole. AMC’ owners are going for the free ride at any expense and profiting simply as any one else would in this situation. It is the BANKS money being lent, not ours, and they will control whom runs the appraisal and how, this will never change. The real issue here is govt/political intrusion and limited loss of appraisers control over his/her opportunity to acquire business and quality work in any means. We are limited to big banks/(slash) amc’s controls ,whom are a SIGNIFICANLY large portion of this business and only a VERY small hand full to work with. This, to me is a scary thought, in regards to monetary and business stability. Direct lenders are FORCED to utilize their in house AMC’s and also have there own “limited” (in house) list of AMC AND APPRAISERS. Independent Brokers no longer exist. Hiring assistant appraisers to loosen up our load so we can market our business and bring in a few extra bucks is now unheard of and unrealitic. Our work load has doubled, our liability has doubled, our expenses to work this job have increased, requirement/ form changes etc are being ridiculously and unsignificanly change daily while our salary has been cut in half, we are limited to whom we can work for, we have no control over when and how we get paid for our services. AMC’s are not the problem and may be useful if correctly applied to the mortgage process, after all I like the idea of not having to deal with Brokers and bankers directly. If large banks/lenders whom control this industry, gave their originators freedom to choose “ANY” outside AMC’s of there choice (as long as it is hvcc or whatever compliant), / pay them a reasonable “processing fee” from the loan proceeds). and allow appraisers to sign up and collect a “C & R” check/money order at the “door” for their independent services during the process, this would eliminate AMC’S payroll cost, etc, blah, blah…..it would stop the monopolized control of the small hand full of major LENDER/AMC, LSI, LANDSAFE, RELS ETC we are limited and dependent on for work .. and allow for competition the old AMERCIAN way. Quality checks can be made by trained appraisal underwriting staff at the bank itself and controled by the board, simply add on a small quality check processing fee to the loan”, after all, AMC’s quality check only delay the process and are usually wasteful. I’m convinced in my opinion AMC’s deliberately find any small reason to send back a report for quality check to simply keep a log to (falsely) show how much of a difference in quality they represent. This is really a no brainer..an AMC can compliantly be run with a $400.00 computer and a two person staff, tops! I unfortunately am not politically intelligent enough to figure out why such intelligent staffed and college educated bankers, politicians, govt officials, AMC,s, Appraisal Support foundations can figure out how to run a numbers business, apply budget and market trend analysis, but can not figure out a simple solution to this AMC - Appraiser issue as well as what what is “customary and reasonable”for an appraisers fee of doing busness vs. expenses…hmmmm? I do not foresee any beneficial changes to this business.. but that is only an opinion and I hope im wrong for to save more embarrasment to this industry.
354 George // Mar 3, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Look to see a crash and burn of AMC ISGN. They have stopped paying appraisers (apparently) and are not sending out orders. So much for off-shore efficiency.
355 LINDY 1954 // Feb 22, 2011 at 12:05 pm
ONCE CUOMO WAS ALLOWED TO CREATE HIS ILLEGAL HVCC AND THE DOOR WAS OPENED WIDE FOR THESE PIRATING AMC’S, APPRAISAL HAS STEADILY BECOME A WORSE AND WORSE INDUSTRY TO BE IN. I DREAD TO SEE WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE ALLEGED CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEES. THE AMC’S WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY FIND A WAY TO TURN INTO ANOTHER WAY TO SCREW THE APPRAISER. AMC’S TAKE ALL THE $$$ WITH NONE OF THE LIABILITY. APPRAISAL IS NOW OFFICIALLY A JOKE.
356 George // Feb 14, 2011 at 4:47 pm
I’m happy with AMC work when someone who speaks English as a first language answers the phone.
To digress just a bit, I saw a headline that read “Scope Creep”. It was an interesting piece on the steady addition of requirements by AMCs/Banks (they blame each other)…and the lack of compensation.
When I got started in 1994 with a couple of AMCs, fees were not great but were negotiable as was the turn time. Exterior photos, maybe an interior or two, three comps (more if I felt the need).
In a steady “up-curve”, TAT went to 48 hours to 24 hours. Now two listings were required as well. Then came the 1004MC. And finally a picture of every room in the house (no people or pics of people allowed). And the phone calls and e-mails were non-stop.
The 1004MC was first tried with no fee increase but guess that didn’t work…$15 was tacked on.
I’ve timed out the additional time required and it’s about 2 hours.
(Yes, I got a minor fee increase in 2002 but no more fee negotiation).
So I’m getting $7.50 per hour for my additional “burger-flipping”.
Please spare me the “just say no” speeches…I was just curious how many of us have been drawn into these “new bank requirements”.
357 Bill Jackson // Feb 2, 2011 at 1:25 pm
it has been a while since i wrote. In spite of all the “HYPE” about customary and usual fees, nothing has come of it.
in fact i feel now that things are worse.
i had a real laugh whwn i read about the appraiser who was HAPPY WITH AMC WORK. Geezzzzz wghat planet did this joker come from?HE MUST BE A shill, A PLANT BY AN amc co.
358 Bill Jackson // Feb 2, 2011 at 1:21 pm
it has been a while since i wrote. In spite of all the “HYPE” about customary and usual fees, nothing has com of it.
in fact i feel now that things are worse.
i had a real laugh whwn i read about the appraiser who was HAPPY WITH AMC WORK. Geezzzzz wghat planet did this joker come from? He listed most all of the AMC that i have done work for and painted such a glowing picture of them. he bragged about getting $300 +fpr a 1004, and they gave him 7 days to do the report. Yea right. i pondered over that for a while and the ONLY conclusion i could come up with is that he is a SHILL, a
359 Bill Jackson // Feb 2, 2011 at 1:10 pm
it has been a while since i wrote. In spite of all the
360 LINDY 1954 // Jan 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm
AGREE ABOUT RELS, THEY ARE REALLY BAD. YES, VERY SHADY, BUT WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM AN AMC CONTROLLED BY THE WORST BANK OUT THERE - WELLS FARGO. RELS DOES NOTHING BUT USE APPRAISERS AND THEN DISCARD THEM. THEY ARE DESPICABLE.
361 Indentured Appraiser // Jan 5, 2011 at 12:17 pm
I got a call from RELs several months ago to do FHA work. I voiced my concerns regarding the low fees but said I would initially take assignments to see how it goes. I have not received even a single assignment. I guess appraisers are not entitled to an opinion; take what is handed to you without complaint or you’re off the approved list. I’ve never been one to support organized unions; however, I’m beginning to think there might be a time and place (maybe/maybe not).
362 Appraiser Y // Dec 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm
The AMC is Nationwide-AMC, 1106 Washington St., Newtown, PA 18940. Just another basement AMC. They are criminals.
363 Appraiser Y // Dec 30, 2010 at 6:40 pm
The bigger the AMC the more unethical. RELS is the worst when it comes to pressuring the appraiser for a higher value. Wells Fargo totally controls RELS and gets them to do whatever they say. It is out and out coercion. RELS is the most unethical AMC out there. They are really shady. Always expect RELS to do whatever they can to screw the appraiser.
364 Bryan Knowlton // Dec 27, 2010 at 4:36 pm
I have had a lot of different experiences with AMCs. Luckily I boot the bad ones before it gets anywhere.
The good experiences that I have with the good AMCs I work with keep me happy being an appraiser.
There are a ton of AMCs out there these days, if anyone wants to stay in business doing lender work, you really have to work with an AMC.
My suggestion to anyone that fits in that boat is to get a good list of AMCs, treat it like a full time job and sign up to all of them on the list.
Doing this will give you the ability to pick your vendors and assignments.
I don’t cut my fees and I don’t provide a 24 hour turn around unless I am paid double the fee and that I have the time to complete the order without rushing.
Good luck out there!
365 salvo // Dec 27, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Ronnie Manning..thanks for your timely post..I was(coincidently) in the process of filling out an application for sureson and am on the Nationwide list as for work..forget it. thks again
366 Ronnie Manning // Dec 24, 2010 at 10:46 am
I just received an email request from an AMC in California called SureSon Appraisal looking for vendors. Out of curiosity I went to their link. After typing in my license # and state to see if I qualified it sent me to their “terms of service” agreement. I read it in its entirety and it states that by accepting - I accept their fee schedule, but the fee schedule is not available to view. To go any further in the registration process you have to accept their terms of service agreement before continuing with the registration. You are not able to view their fee schedule up to this point in the registration process. So why are they asking appraisers to agree to something that is not made available to them. Very misleading.
I have one AMC that has not paid for an appraisal we did in June of this year. The AMC is Nationwide-AMC, 1106 Washington St., Newtown, PA 18940. I have sent invoices to this company, have called on numerous occasions with no response. Every piece of correspondence I have sent has been returned as “un-deliverable” by the USPS. I have received no response through their website contact information either.
Fortunately, I have only completed one assignment from this AMC. I am passing this to collections the first of the year.
My advice to my peers in this industry is not to accept any assignments from this AMC. It’s time we stand up and say enough is enough.
367 Sean T. // Dec 10, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Lets face it - the appraisal industry is going down the tubes.
368 JD // Nov 11, 2010 at 7:49 am
I HOPE LSI GOES UNDER, THEY ARE SO SHADY.
369 Terry Shannon // Oct 20, 2010 at 7:44 pm
I have done some work through appraisal port and real trans, both of which are similar to what Mike describes above. They only charge a nominal fee - $10 and $5 respectively. I think Real Trans is a conduit only for Ocwen Mortgage whereas Appraisal Port has a # of lenders funneling work through them.
370 Mike Favela // Oct 20, 2010 at 3:13 pm
You can give an example of a bad AMC experience and someone out there has probably had the same thing happen to them. This is because, they all have the same banks, title co’s and investors as owners. They are all operated the same. They hire the cheapest, inexperienced people they can find, and impose the same requirements, fees and ridiculous turn times throughout the industry, so I’m not wastig your time on bad experiences, we all know what they are and who they are. I would like to report on an AMC that pays $375 for a full 1004 w/MC and charges a $20 fee per accepted request. They have a very simple website, user friendly and they don’t run the reports through a scrubber and don not call three or four time a day for updates or revisions that do not need to be made. The company is called FOXTROT AMC, they are out of Indianapolis, I have been doing work for them since the first of the year and happy to say they are a pretty good company. The reason for their sucess is because all they do is expedite the appraisal order, they make sure it gets assigned to an appraiser and when they get it finished, the transmit it back to the lender. Nothing more nothing less. I have talked to someone at the main office twice in the last 9 months about a revision and both times they were my mistakes and corrected. The do volume and are able to make a profit on $20/file. There is two processors that handle the work flow and no other staff and are covering lenders all over Texas. My question is, If they are making a profit, how do the co’s charging us $200 fees get away with it for doing nothing.
371 Terry Shannon // Oct 19, 2010 at 9:12 pm
According to the AMC - MDA (Formerly Trans Union) the folks working on the Dodd/Frank bill as regards appraisers and appraisal fees have essentially tabled this until April 1, 2011, ostensibly to give all parites sufficient time to sort things out. What it will likely mean is that the AMC attorneys and hacks will find a means by which to block any measures that could mandate more equitable fees for appraisers.
I’m 64 years old, and have been appraising for nearly 25 years. Sadly, for a variety of reasons - one big one being the existence of AMCs, I cannot hang up my clipboard anytime soon. It’s a little late for me to go out and find gainful employment in some other field.
But, I would urge any of you younger folks to either jump ship altogether, or focus on appraising properties other than residences. On balance, the AMCs will almost surly win out. There may be a crumb or two thrown our way, but I seriously doubt that anything substantive will come out of all this in favor of appraisers.
I do wonder if in all their efforts the federal folks considering all this will actually take the time to read anything sent to them from individual appraisers, or consider any of these fee surveys? What are the chances that any of them would take it upon themselves to actually sit down and talk to any of us - not the top dogs at the Insititute, but just a few of us working stiffs out there dragging our tape measures around some McMansion for a couple hundred bucks?
372 George // Oct 17, 2010 at 6:38 pm
Well, 10/19/2010 is mere hours away! This is supposedly the day “reasonable and customary” fees return to appraising.
Anyone want to make a wager?
As I’ve mentioned before, the only people who care about appraisers are a disparate band of appraisers.
If nothing comes from this legislation, pack up your tent and go job hunting. BPOs and AVMs will take over. No matter that they aren’t worth crap, they’re cheaper than appraisers.
And to AMCs like IMortgage, Corelogic (name changes monthly to keep the Feds at bay…lol), LSI and the rest of these appraisal mills; my best wishes for your demise.
You were once credible; now you are common theives. You steal from appraisers, the consumer (perhaps even your “parent” lender) but you are bottom-dwellers with no shame…and a growing affinity for getting reviewing done in India!
Now THAT is funny!
373 Terry Shannon // Oct 12, 2010 at 8:32 am
BTW - I published that letter on my website http://indybomer46.blogspot.com. Give it a read and comment on it if you like. I’d love to hear from some of you.
Also - sorry for the typo in the above comment. “One caveat we should heed” (not be heed.)
374 Terry Shannon // Oct 12, 2010 at 8:24 am
The central problem we face regarding fees is that we have little or no political clout. There are relatively few of us, say as compared to the # of realtors, and simply owing to the nature of the beast, ours is a solitary job. We don’t mingle much. Talk of unionizing is frankly silly. Unions have a way of sucking the life and money out of their members much like the AMCs are currently doing. And, don’t count on the Institute or any of the other appraisal organizations to speak for us. They won’t.
When dealing with AMCs, you just have to keep pushing the limits. When I receive an order, if I don’t like the stated fee, I reject it with a note that I will accept if for a stated higher fee. Either they will resend the order with that fee, or find someone else. If they refuse to raise the fee, so be it.
Each of us has to determine what is best given our particular circumstance. Some of us are hungry enough for work that we’ll take anything sent our way. Others of us can pick and choose. And, of course, it’s cyclical. If (and when) rates go up or something else curtails mortgage lending, the paradigm changes.
As most of us are currently busy, this is the time to push the hardest to force AMCs to pay higher fees. As I stated above, the appraisal fee should NOT be split. Lenders should pay AMCs for services rendered separately from the appraisal fee. AMCs do NOT provide appraisals. They provide other ancillary services.
I have been appraising for nearly 25 years. During that time I have watched as our stature in the industry has been chipped away at reducing us to little more than form fillers. As was alluded to in a couple of other comments, between the lenders and the AMCs, they dictate what we can and cannot write almost verbatum. We are told what phrases are acceptable, what words we must use and what words we cannot use.
One caveat we must be heed in our efforts to better our circumstance is that lenders may use our resistance to further rationalize their increased use of AVMs, BPOs and other valuation sources, pushing us even further out of the ring. Many AMCs either run their own AVM services or have partnered with one or more of these data bases. Personally, I think AVM valuations are crap. But many lenders and computer geeks love the damn things.
I don’t know if anything positive for us will come out of the Dodd/Frank bill. If you want to take the time, you could send a letter (via snail mail) to
Ms. Sandra Braunstein
Director
Division of Consumer and
Community Affairs
Federal Reserve Board
1709 New Yok Avenue
Washington D.C. 20006
She and her staff are currently (supposedly) considering a # of issues regarding the implementation of the Frank/Dodd bill’s particulars including the issue of “customary and reasonable” fees for appraisers.
I sent such a letter and have had no response, and frankly have no idea if it will have any impact whatsoever. But, as I see it, it couldn’t hurt if Ms. Braunstein and her people got an ear - or eyefull of opinions from appraisers. If you elect to do so, keep it civil and to the point. I must admit, just as here with this comment, I rambled on too much. It’s probably best if you keep it to no more than 1 page. My letter ran almost 3 full pages.
375 Terry Shannon // Oct 11, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Property Science AMC has placed a terms of service agreement on their web site which must be accepted to receive any work from them. This “agreement” includes a line stating that acceptance of their fees constitutes a “customary and reasonable” fee.
Think before you sign this thing! They may use them as ammunition against us when the government decides how fees should be determined as regards the Dodd/Frank Financial Reform Legislation. If they can establish that fees typically paid by AMCs are “customary and reasonable” they will become the norm. They are taking money out of our pockets! Other AMCs have or likely, will follow suit.
Keep in mind that the services AMCs provide accrue ONLY to the lender. They do nothing to enhance our circumstance. They argue that they represent a source of appraisal work which is a strawman argument as lenders would still require appraisals in the absence of AMCs. The services AMCs provide should be paid for by the lender separate from the fee for the appraisal.
Again, if you log onto an AMC site and are stopped by a “terms of service” or other similar contract, first READ IT - ALL! Don’t click “accept” without doing so. Know what you are agreeing to. Look for the “customary and reasonable” phrase. If you click agree, it will ultimately cost you and the rest of us money. AMCs are NOT your friend. You are NOT their “partner.” If you read through these “agreements” they are all slanted nearly 100% in favor of the AMC’s interests. Not yours.
376 ARIZONA APPRAISER // Oct 9, 2010 at 10:24 pm
When I was working for an amc 6 years ago they were paying me between $275-$300, which was lower than the actual fees of $325 -$400 for conventional appraisals. So why is it they charge the customer more money than we were charging, the appraiser makes way less money, and is required to write a narrative report like you are explaining it to a 5th grader because the reviewers are not appraisers?
377 SC // Oct 9, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Want to talk about what is a reasonable and customary fee? In my market PVC Murcor pays $225 for FHA appraisals. $225!!!! Before the HVCC allowed AMCs to steal from appraisers FHA appraisals were twice that amount. PVC Murcor is the worst AMC out there and it’s really sad that there are appraisers who will do it for that low of a fee!
378 Appraiser William // Oct 6, 2010 at 1:36 pm
What will happen to all the really low paying bottom feeding AMCs like LSI, PCV Murcor, Nations Valutions, Valuation Partners, etc. when the Dodd/Frank becomes effective? They will have to pay what is reasonable and customary and not be able to screw the appraiser by paying them their incredibly low fees while keeping the bulk of the fee themselves anymore. How is it fair that these AMCs keep so much of the fee for “managing the appraisal”? Hopefully they will all go under. We don’t need AMCs that blatantly take advantage of the appraiser like the aforementioned companies.
379 Mike B. // Oct 4, 2010 at 2:59 pm
The problem with Landsafe and RELS is that they are management companies which are owned by Bank of America and Wells Fargo Bank, respectively. This is why they don’t want to move the AMC fee to the over to processing. It’s just a cash grab for them!
I have heard AMCs declare their value to banks and to appraisers (i.e. not having to solicit work) as justification for piggy-backing on our fees for their pay. However, my two best clients handle appraisal rotation and HVCC requirements with 1 compliance officer and a very simple software program. They charge $25 per appraisal (paying $400 to the appraiser). They also allow us to assign appraisal’s within our office based on the areas with which we are most familiar thus ensuring a geographically competent appraisal. By the way, these clients are Amegy Bank and Great Western Financial. I am happy to give their names because I know that I will continue to receive assignments from them as their #1 priority is quality work.
So … if the AMCs are providing so much value to the the lenders and appraisers, why can these two great companies manage with a compliance officer, $25 fee and simple software program?
Mike B
380 Palmer C. Byrne // Sep 29, 2010 at 12:02 pm
Be aware that certain AMCs are including stop loss clauses also known as an “Indemnification Clause” in their appraiser agreements. If you sign this you could be opening your self up to unlimited liability for the AMC’s errors and your E&O will not cover you or defend you. Upon the advice of our legal consul we do not accept such agreements. DartAppraisal.com is presently including the Indemnification Clause in there package for HUD REO appraisers. For further information contact Liability Insurance Administrators or you E&O carrier.
381 Christine // Sep 17, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I couldn’t agree more about Valuation Partners. They are SO bad. We don’t need unethical and super low paying AMCs like this in our industry. $250 for an FHA appraisal. Does that sound reasonable and customary? NO WAY! I hope they go under, AMCs like Valuation Partners are the problem we get stuck with because of the awful HVCC. I hope the illegal HVCC disappears too.
382 TX Appraiser // Sep 17, 2010 at 6:11 am
Just spent two weeks being pressured to drop my value with Momentum Appraisal Group/Nexbank. They still believe that the underwriter makes the final opinion of value.
As for Valuation Partners, what a joke. I’ve seen their fee schedule.
They now both go directly to the SPAM folder.
383 K. P. // Sep 14, 2010 at 8:09 am
I agree with “IT’S OVER” about Nations Valuation. They only use appraisers that they can rip-off by paying them much less than what they keep. They are very unethical and know nothing about appraisal procedures. Boycott this AMC.
384 JON // Sep 11, 2010 at 9:28 am
LSI IS SUCH A SHADY AMC. THEY ASK FOR THE MOST WORK TO BE DONE IN APPRAISALS AND PAY THE LEAST FOR IT. THEIR “REVIEWERS” ARE NOT APPRAISERS AND ARE TOTALLY INCOMPETENT. THEIR EGOMANIAC HEAD APPRAISER GEORGE VANN THINKS HE INVENTED APPRAISAL. LSI AND RON FRAZIER REPRESENT THE PROBLEM WITH AMC’S. EXTREME GREED WITH NO REGARD FOR AN APPRAISERS QUALIFICATIONS. THEY ARE HORRIBLE.
385 Appraiser Diane // Sep 8, 2010 at 2:22 pm
PCV Murcor, what can I say about them? Nothing good, that’s for sure.
386 mark // Aug 31, 2010 at 11:25 am
agreed about Nations Valuations, they are so clueless. i don’t think they even have any appraisers working there. they have no respect for theappraisal industry.
387 Marsha // Aug 30, 2010 at 8:59 pm
I am too new to rate any AMCs. However I have not accepted any assignments for less than $300, which I pray will help the appraisal industry. And I am not making enough money to do quit my other job and do this full-time.
388 ANTHONY // Aug 28, 2010 at 9:18 am
NATIONS VALUATIONS SERVICES ARE REALLY INCOMPITENT. THEY KNOW ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING ABOUT APPRAISAL, FNMA GUIDELINES, OR USPAP AND DONT CARE ABOUT IT. THEY PAY THE LOWEST FEES IN THE INDUSTRY. THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY IS A JOKE TO NATIONS VALUTIONS AND JUST A WAY TO MAKE MONEY BY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF APPRAISERS. SOMEBODY SHOULD INVESTIGATE THEM, THERE CROOKS.
389 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Aug 23, 2010 at 1:36 pm
NY; bkly, queens, kings, richmond, nassau, suffolk,
LSI and Corelogic:
1fam & condo/coop $275.00
2-3 fam- 425.00
4 fam- They try to push 425.00 -450.00
Exterior- 250.00
Landsafe:
1 fam/condo- 285.00-295.00 depending on area bkly usually the higher
1 fam/condo- over 500k- 340.00-375.00
multi- 495.00-520.00
over 500k - 570.00-595.00
Exterior- 240.00
FHA +50.00
Here are actual fees accepted by these companies. Any appraiser currently accepting less is an idiot…any appraiser currently accepting and getting more is an hipicritical idiots for keeping it to themselves and not sharing this info as part of the solution to help stop low fee hardballing in this industry… These fee’s by all means are yet not enough to keep us in business, but we need to stick together as one!
with some exceptions such as complex properties etc. , minimum customary and reasonable fees to stay in business, cover slow month and time off, pay insurance and expenses, without antisipation or any retirement savings should be as follows;
1 fam 350.00
2 fam 500.00
3 fam 550.00
4 fam 600.00
FHA +75.00
Exterior 275.00
OK, to those of you whom are getting less
By the way…I just tried to refi with citibank(mngt co are LSI, rels etc)….the loan officer told me I would be charged $425.00 for a 1 family appraisal… this tells you how much we as appraisers are being shaken down.
390 Kelly R. // Aug 13, 2010 at 9:01 am
Valuation Partners is the MOST unethical AMC around. Avoid this AMC like the plague, they are terrible to work with.
391 Jim // Aug 9, 2010 at 8:23 am
Experienced appraisers are leaving the field daily - the environment is just so different than what they have been used to (low pay, increased scrutiny, basically more work for less pay). Lenders are increasing placing appraisers on their blacklists - many cases basing it on appraisals performed 4-5 years ago - during a retrospective review as the borrower is now defaulting. AMCs are removing appraisers from their lists for a myriad of reasons that are not even quality related (requesting higher fee too often, complaining of not being paid on time, etc.). It is almost impossible for a trainee to get their experience now days and with all the news lately regarding the lower fees, there are a lot less people getting into the field. Do the lenders and AMCs actually believe there is a never ending source of appraisers out there that will bend to their will? This is simply a numbers game, like anything else, and if fees do not increase to a “reasonable” level again, then there will not be enough experienced appraisers left to fullfill the industry demands. So, what I see is even if the new legislation never has the teeth to make the lenders and AMCs pay higher reasonable fees, they will have to eventually due to simple attrition. After 25 years of appraising, I’m just not sure I want to hang in there until this happens. I will however give it a few more months to see what, if anything, this new legislation actually changes.
Oh - AMC ratings - almost forgot….until they raise their fees, non of them are worth a Sh#1!
392 Gary M // Aug 3, 2010 at 4:10 pm
anyone know In House??
393 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Jul 30, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Thomas Frye ……….what????? Im hoping you dont write reports as foggy as your comments. Your in the wrong business pal.
394 WILLIAM R // Jul 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm
EAPPRAISE IT PAYS $165 FOR A FULL APPRAISAL IN MY AREA BUT NO AMC IS WORSE THAN PCV MURCOR, THEY ARE THE WORST EVER. TOTALLY UNEHTICAL BOTTOM FEEDERS.
395 George // Jul 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm
AMC Appraisal Network; which I alerted you all to; is now suspended from the internet…and I did get my money back!
396 DONNA // Jul 28, 2010 at 11:05 am
Quantrix bought by First American OOPS! they call themselves Core Logic now.. It’s a disguise…. so they are not associated with the EAppraisit lawsuit in the works involving WAMU bank. Anyway Quantrix/CoreLogic aka First American pays $187.00 for a full appraisal and if you don’t agree off the list you go. So much for customary and reasonable fees.
397 George // Jul 25, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Thomas Frye…please re-read your message and clarify what you are talking about!
Are you a good old boy…an idiot…or somewhere in between?
398 George // Jul 25, 2010 at 10:07 pm
This newly passed legislation might save appraising but, if ignored (more likely) will kill it. Let some GED scholar fill out the form. It doesn’t seem to matter what’s in it.
The appraiser is the key to all residential loans but is paid the least and treated like dirt. Meanwhile, some part-time realtor fills out the MLS form incorrectly, pushes garbage comps at the appraiser and picks up $4500 on a $300k house. I am sure in the wrong end of this biz.
399 Mike Troccoli // Jul 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Am I dreaming or did the new financial reform bill that was signed into law effectively kill the HVCC? Check out this link
http://www.klgates.com/newsstand/Detail.aspx?publication=6554
400 JeremyHallAppraisals - CO // Jul 21, 2010 at 2:16 pm
If the AMC’s want to promote lower earnings, they should start with their own exorbitant expenses. The market rate for an appraisal is what the broker charges the consumer. AMC’s should bill separately. Lenders should mandate the appraisers bill be remitted, so they know how the AMC is handling their consumers money!
401 Thomas Frye // Jul 13, 2010 at 9:26 am
I agree that AMC fees aren’t the best. However, AMCs have opened the doors of the good ol’ boy network to allow competent appraisers that have been trying to do bank work. I have been appraising for 17 years and I have seen lenders defaut to the good ol’ boy network on numerous occassions even though the quality of the appraisal work is pitiful.
402 johnt // Jul 7, 2010 at 9:42 am
I agree George, I just dropped ISGN as they lowered fees on top of everything else. They are an embarrassment but not all AMC’s are like that. I do work for several AMCS . Never once have I had any pressure, rarely an addendum or had to make any promises for kickbacks. While they pay average of $100 less per appraisal I can decline what I want and I never have to run down a payment. It works out about the same when you consider all the time spent on collections and getting stiffed.
403 George // Jun 30, 2010 at 4:52 pm
An AMC I used to have a mutually profitable relationship with (Fiserv) was just purchased by an Indian group (ISGN) and now all bets are off. Reviews are done in India and I have to review the review. The CSRs, none of whom have english as a first language; have actually called the borrowers to ask if I’ve called them yet. They always mention 24 hour TAT (I always say “sure”…lol). The prior management team…erratic at best…seems to have vanished.
The answering service also has extensions for their BPO affiliates! That really turned my stomach. The stench from this business is suffocating!
404 ITS OVER // Jun 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Nations valuations services are crooks paying themselves MORE than the appraisier and then taking three months or more to pay. they are the worst
405 WJ // Jun 28, 2010 at 4:36 pm
The day of the independent fee appraiser is over! How much lower can the fees go? This industry is dead! The HVCC has killed it. Thanks, Mr. Coumo, it’s all your fault!
406 Jennifer // Jun 25, 2010 at 11:12 am
Agreed, PCV Murcor is just the worst!
407 Bill G. // Jun 18, 2010 at 6:31 pm
any AMC that sends out their low fee broadcast orders is just catering to the lowest common denominator, ie bottom feeders. you get what you pay for.
408 PAUL // Jun 18, 2010 at 4:17 pm
THERES JUST NO WAY TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING AS A RESIDENTIAL APPRAISER ANYMORE. THE ONLY ONES MAKING REAL MONEY (WITHOUT WORKING FOR IT) ARE THE AMCS. LSI AND RELS ARE NO PICNIC BUT AT LEAST THEY’VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. THE HVCC SCAM HAS OPENED THE DOOR FOR THESE SUPER LOW PAYING AND UNETHICAL AMCS LIKE QUANTRX, iMORTGGE, STREETLNKS, PVC MURCOR , VALUATION PATRNERS, NATIONS VALUTIONS, AXIOOS, APPRAISRLOFT, CLEAR CAPTAL, ETC. THESE AMCS ONLY CARE ABOUT THE LOWEST FEES AND THE FASTEST TATS, THEY PRETEND IT IS BUT QUALITY AN EXPERIENCE ARE NOT A FACTOR, JUST OUT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE AND MAKE A FAST BUCK THERE. AS LONG AS THERE ARE BAD SELL-OUT APPRAISERS TO ACCEPT THESE TERRIBLE FEES WER’E DOOMED. ITS LIKE THE AMCS ARE ALLOWED TO COMMIT HIGHWAY ROBBERY AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND IT’S OK & THE RESIDENTIAL APPRAISER HAS NO RIGHTS AND NO ONE CARES. THANKS TO HVCC THE PROFESSION IS RUINED. AFTER 24 YEARS IVE HAD IT.
409 Retired Appraiser // Jun 18, 2010 at 10:00 am
Stop wasting your time appraisers and dreaming of a better day. Face the facts that you are being squeezed out of business. There is nothing that anyone can do about it.
Either you left the business early on and saved yourselves from bankruptcy or you’ll learn the hard way (through bankruptcy).
Grow a brain guys and get out of this flea bitten career??? while you still have 1/100 of your original bank account left.
410 unknown // Jun 12, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Ok, Thats great Mr fed up and paul, now lets post info on how much these AMC’s you rated are truly paying you on their fees. This can be helpful and advantagious in many ways to all in this business. Im sure the AMC’s wont like it but who cares.
411 PAUL // Jun 12, 2010 at 8:26 am
ITS TRUE AMCS AND THE HVCC ARE RIUNING APPRAISAL!!! RELS AND LSI ARE THE WORST WITH THE RECONS PRESSURE-IT IS A WAY OF GETTING AN INFLATED APPRAISAL! PVC MURCOR ACTUALLY SENDS OUT INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE ENGAGMENT ON HOW TO DO THE APPRASIAL ! THERE ARE TOO MANY AMC’S THAT ONLY CARE ABOUT LOWEST FEES AND QUICKEST TAT (ALL OF THEM). WHY SHOULD THE AMC MAKE MORE MONEY THAN THE APPRAISER THAT DID THE WORK? I AGREE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO US.
412 unknown // Jun 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm
H, cat,scott, p. joseph, Boondock and the rest. How pithetic, shameful and self-absorbant. Lets read the heading on this forum… Amc’s, rating and fees is what we should be DISCLOSING not complaining about. IF YOUR AN APPRAISER AND WANT TO COMPLAIN AND WRITE YOUR MISERY, THEN GET A HEAD SHRINK. WE CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE BY STATING SOME EFFECTIVE INFORMATION INSTEAD. Otherwise get out of your hiding space and lets begin posting our honest AMC FEES by state and AMC experiences/ratings. By doing so we will simply give your fellow appraisers the advantage and put the AMC’s “low ball thinking” and there own competition at some disadvantage for now. Lets stop holding back our fears of loosing business to other appraiser, stick together and put it all out there for now. There will be plenty of work to go around . Anyhow, Id rather do 5 appraisals at $350.00 than 7-8 at $250.00 any way. Here’s a reality check. Appraisers are the only individuals being financially affected by this. Its ethicaly wrong but legal. Considering, no politician, bank, investor, homeowner will care to stick there nose in this issue because it is not affecting them. The only way to better this is to begin, talking, networking and informing each other of better opportunities regarding AMC’S AND FEES. AMC’s NEED appraisers, and when they begin loosing appraisers to their own competition, their only atlernative will be to increase there fees to gain apprasiers!!!!! Just as Lawyers and Accountants know what there going fees are and stick to them, we should begin to do the same.. Honesty, budding, communication and networking is what will help us otherwise we shall accept whats come.
413 Boondock slave // Jun 11, 2010 at 8:33 am
As and appraiser working in a rural area i have seen it all. AMC’s hiring appraisers from as far away as 300 miles to complete a report for $250.
In New York licensing led to a glut of new appraisers and thus allowed the lenders to spread the weath around. This assured that no
one would be able to make a decent living or save for a rainy day.
Although new regs have been implemented lenders,AMC’s and others have been hard at work making sure that appraisers cannot hire or grow their businesses by playing us one against another.
We are under-represented and until that changes we can expect more of the same.
May be as time goes on there will be so few appraisers left that those remaining will have more bargaining power.
I don’t think I’ll make it. Good luck to those of you who do !!!!
414 P. Joseph Siematkowski // Jun 11, 2010 at 8:17 am
As we as an industry move forward we must keep in mind that within the real estate field we appraisers are the lowest in the food chain.
We have been blamed for all of wall street’s corruption and cratering of the housing market.
With trillions of dollars lost lenders are now attempting to recoup these loses by exacting minutes amounts of monies from the lowly appraiser. No one is coming to save us !!!!!!!
415 Scott Wishart // Jun 11, 2010 at 7:53 am
I’ve been a licensed appraiser since 1996. A retail banker for 12 years before that. Worked with nearly every AMC imaginable over the years. They’re all in it for the same thing we are, maximize amount of $ they can earn. Though in their case it seems more like a shady skimming/kickback type operation. How much are YOU willing to pay, or refund, or kickback, to the AMC to receive assignments?
Here’s something I haven’t read much about here. the fact is….
Lenders LOVE the HVCC, for the mandatory AMC “firewall”. Banks had a choice: Either A: close down their appraisal ordering/tracking/compliance department, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries and benefits. or B: “spin off” their appraisal ordering department into “independent AMC’s” and turn them into a profit center! It’s a win-win all the way around for the banks (again)!
I currently only accept work through one AMC, RIMS. With RIMS they send out requests for bids, typically you have 1/2 a day to submit your bid. I always bid full fee (for my market) and have always received full fee (from the originating lender not RIMS). RIMS is truly a “pass-through” type AMC. I have never paid RIMS any fees. This is how it should work. I am paid every cent of my bid, nobody (but my rich Uncle Sam) takes a cut of my hard earned dollars.
My experience with the rest is like everyone elses. Ridiculously low fees, short TAT’s, and moronic AMC staff.
416 Cat // Jun 8, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Fine, lets name, names, Appraiserloft in San Diego. This company states on their website how appraisers do not need to send invoices or keep track of what’s owed to them because they do that automatically and send checks every 15-30 days. That is an out right lie. They hold on to your money, to keep you in their back pocket in case they need something else from you. It takes 3-6 months to get paid on any individual appraisal and not without a lot of begging for it. I won’t accept anymore work from them and neither will every other appraiser I personally know because of the same experience. How is that ethical? How is that customary or reasonable? How come the State Agency that licenses us can’t help? Who does Andrew Cuomo think he is? He does not know this industry!
417 h // Jun 8, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Here is another one to beware of. It is called “Appraiser’s Advantage”, they charge a yearly fee of $349 and promise they have plenty of work in your area, and not enough appraisers. They promise you a full fee for your work, and then after they get your annual fee, you get no orders, and they won’t return your calls.
418 unknown // Jun 8, 2010 at 8:20 am
I really dont get this forum…all I hear is complaints about fees and turntime , how we should unite as appraiser, but I only see two postings regarding fees and AMC ratings…what are the others afraid of, competition?? How can we move forward if every man/women is looking out for there own…If we all post our true fees per amc, state as well as ratings, maybe we can get a step ahead of ourselves and begin taking some control. There is no unity in this appraisal business, we are still in a competive state of mind… lets start posting!
419 George // Jun 3, 2010 at 7:12 pm
FYI (if it is news) there’s a scam going on with something called AMC Appraisal Network (1-888-519-4447). They promise appropriate fees (NJ _$300-350) and 1 order guaranteed within a month of applying. So I bit for $129…and NOTHING happened. There are no call backs…orders; just wonder at the cost of the website. Pass it on.
420 Ms. D // May 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I’m afraid AMC’s are here to stay. So, we have to figure out how to live with them and ultimately (hopefully) make them work for us instead of feeling as though they are the enemy.
As to the original purpose of this blog:
Rels is good –not the highest fees but reasonable. Excellent time in paying and direct deposit.
I have heard good about LSI, as well.
I still have a few lawyers and tax grievance work here and there + a little AMC work and I am hanging in there.
Lori Davenport–Thank you for all your information and opinions. Yes, I totally agree that Brokers should not be doing BPO’s—it’s technically illegal. APO’s (Appraiser Price Opinion) should be created and utilized.
Dan–Fantastic idea! AMC’s should only be able to charge a set percentage (i.e. 20%) of the total fee. So that if they are going to tack it onto the appraisal fee at least the appraiser gets a reasonable fee by default of the AMC’s greed. Again great idea!
Also, all states should pass a law that says appraisers have to put their fee in the report–that would help us out greatly. Getting the public angry would make changes come more quickly.
I have had many conversations with those that have recently had appraisals (that I did not do) and they came out and asked me why appraisal fees have recently gone up so much–up to $500-$775??? I let them know it would be luck if the appraiser (who did ALL the work) got even $280 of it. I did not do the appraisal and so I’m not obligated to keep quiet about this “dirty little secret.” There should be transparency in regard to all the fees a borrower pays for any real estate transaction.
But none of these laws or regulations of AMC’s will happen until we get representation in Washington DC. Getting the public angry over inflated fees that do not even go to the professional doing the work will do some good, but ultimately we need A REALLY LOUD VOICE in DC.
Who shall be our voice?
And how much are we willing to pay to support that voice?
421 unknown // May 22, 2010 at 5:16 am
E-appraisite= fees succck ..staff sucks .. paid 160-200 for 1 family, 250 for 2-4 fam –took a few and requested to raise fee… 300 for 1 fam 475 for 2. they said I would be place from prefered status to fee status… never saw another order again…
LSI– fees . blahhh..great staff but was told 225 for 1 fam and 350 for 2-3 fam.. they can not pay any more than this??? lots of extras. a little less hassling with turn times.
Quantrix…. pays somewhat better than LSI…easy staff to get along with.. found them to give the least issues with turn time but very quick to cut you off if you get behind with turn time…(no security in this business).
imortgage… ridiculous fees… they only allow you 3 hours to accept reports before it is canceled…???
not sure about landsafe… heard they pay somewhat better…but no longer accepting appraisers?? 3 years now??
tried some unknown amcs… some never received any orders after hours of paper work application…some turned out to be appraisal companys pretending to come off as amcs offering similar fees.. pithetic and shameful to this industry…
merc network… pay best… takes a small fee 13.00 but overall worth it. little hassle with turn time, I beleive they understand the works ins and out of this industry on an appraisers business perspective regarding P&L , expenses and survival at first hand better than others. Give them plenty of credit for trying..
….These are still unfeasable fees to stay in business considering the additonal expenses we now encounter along with lack of paid benifits and slow times period that should be absorbed with reasonable and higher paying feasable pay. I feel the banks should be paying the amc’s for services and amc’s should leave the appraisers fees and collections up to the Individual Appraisers… no reason to “shake down” appraiser for there hard worked income.
422 Stan The Man // May 7, 2010 at 12:31 pm
OK, We all wrote letters and made all kinds of comments about AMCs. But where is the List and rating for the AMC and what they pay. Until we bring this list so all can see it we will all keep getting screwed by bad AMCs.
423 Therese Garrity // Apr 22, 2010 at 10:13 am
Also, when I first started accepting AMC work the fees and client expectations were reasonable… Now, fees are lower and clients want more work for less pay.
424 Therese Garrity // Apr 22, 2010 at 10:11 am
I am in Cook County, Illinois and I was told by one AMC that we have the one of the highest concentration of appraisers in the US. I believe that this is contributing to our appraisals woes; AMCs can pay low fees and still get an appraiser to accept the work. If you live in an area with fewer appraisaers, count your blessings (and your higher fees!).
425 Terry Shannon // Apr 15, 2010 at 8:55 am
I only read a smattering of the above comments, so I may be repeating some things stated in them. If so I apologize.
AMCs have long been the bane of many appraiser’s existence, but it has thus far, for me at any rate, been a losing battle.
In the Indianapolis market, there is little choice. Virtually all of the major lenders in this market use AMCs.
The ONLY advantage I see coming from working through an AMC is that they do serve as a middle man, the appraiser does not have to deal directly with irate loan originators, buyers, sellers, realtors, etc. Any such calls I get, I refer back to the AMC.
But the cost to us in lower fees is hardly worth it. If one works exclusively for AMCs, one must complete perhaps 50% more work per week/month in order to earn a living. And, as alluded to above, there is the added pressure of expected 24 to 48 hour turn times and all the “corrections” that come from their reviewers who often invent things to nettle their appraisers with either to justify their existence or just to salve their egos.
Keep in mind that many AMC reviewers are essentially failed appraisers.
Under current circumstances, appraisers have become pretty much the low man (or woman) on the totem pole. We get little respect and have virtually no political clout. We are, more often than not, the scapegoat.
Taking almost any appraisal class for continuing ed basically serves as a lesson in all the ways we can lose our licenses, get sued and/or get arrested. Appraisers essentially have no advocates. No one advocates on our behalf - not the Institute, nor any other organization. All they do is serve as a conduit for all the rules and regs that come along ad nauseam from Fannie, Freddie, HUD, VA, the AQB, the ASB, USPAP, etc. It is rare that anything is ever challenged on our behalf.
The rise of AMCs has further stripped us of any power or respect we may have at one time had. Now, we are told to bend over, and all we’re expected to ask is “How far?”
426 ventura county appraiser // Apr 8, 2010 at 10:27 am
after 30 years in the business, i have seeen alot of developments in the appraisal profession. much has been driven by circumstances in the market, ie licensing, e/o insurance, merging of professional appraisal groups, various appraisal standards etc. this latest development of “AMC’s” is a reaction to what the RE market has gone through in the last 3-4 years. Looking forward i really don’t see the AMC continuing to be a viable function when the RE market returns to a more normal condition. Right now they can offer LOW fees and quick TAT with HEAVY handed underwriting because market volumne is low and some appraisers have little choice. However, when the market returns to normal, AMCs will not be able to handle the step up in appraisal volumne. bottom line I really don’t see how AMC’s will survive when a normal market returns. I recently got a request from a AMC that wanted an appraisal on a multi-million dollar beach property in Malibu, CA for $225 and 3 day turnaround. Pretty laughable….i quoted them a fee of $2,000+ and 3-4 weeks. i have not heard from them for weeks but I’m sure they got somebody to do it…….now that’s even more laughable
427 Carin // Apr 5, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Honestly, I didn’t start out hating the AMCs. Really I didn’t. I understand some of their cost of doing business. They have to market and find new accounts. They have to review reports. They have to track orders. There IS a cost.
BUT, after seeing the way they operate, i have increasingly become discouraged by the entire industry.
These “reviews” they do are jokes. I am amazed if I get a report through with out corrections. Their “client requirements” (let’s face it, they’re all being sold to the same giant), change with the wind, and have about that much logic. One company required every direction and treet type had to be spelled out. Another would make me clarify if the subject had a basement, after it was clearly in the grid that it did not. Response: “add a comment about no basement in the addendum”. WHAT??? They have $5/hour idiots that must be REQUIRED to send reports back to meet some lame quota.
The fees are insulting. We were asked to appraise an 8,000 sq. ft. house on 11 acres (ummmm, can we say NO comps?) for the astronomical fee of….$225. And sadly that is not even close tot the worst scenario we’ve encountered.
We have to turn in reports in 48 hours, and we have been informed, “that’s actual hours, not business” and we are REQUIRED to turn in reports on Saturdays and Sundays. And the clock keeps ticking on holidays like Chrsitmas and Thanksgiving. We saaw a house the day before Thanksgiving, and were questioned why the report was not submitted on that Friday. AUGH!
Loan officers and RE agents still belly ache that their flipped house won’t meet the sales price. We’re asked to “consider” 10 other properties in exclusive areas that are twice the size. And then, when we don’t change the value, we can get black-listed. Oh Yeah!
CitiMortgage has a list of appraisers they won’t use, and for no reason spelled out in the HVCC, they can decide to add you to the list because of “the comps that were used.”
Lenders are just running their own AMCs now, using their own appraisers and skirting the entire purpose of the HVCC…and the worthless HVCC allows it.
I really question what is going to happen to the industry. I think it will look completely different in 5 years. Most AMCs don’t allow trainees to sign, and for the meager fees we get, having a trainee isn’t worth it. Plus, why WOULD anyone want to get in the industry now? It’s not worth it. We’re getting paid crappy and slow, we pay for our own insurance, we don’t get vacations (at least not paid like regular jobs….like the one I quit for this one…sigh), and now we’re treated like minions who have to jump becasue some AMC said so.
And as much as I am sick and tired of the AMCs, I don’t know how to have a profitable business without them…. don’t really know how to do it WITH them, but I digress.
Rock Hard place
Well, I didn’t even rate the AMC’s, just whined about them….
Oh well, that’s about all I can muster today.
428 Jay // Mar 19, 2010 at 8:56 pm
So long as we are beholden to the lenders for work we will be annoyances to them, held hostage by the threat of no new jobs. That’s the real pressure HVCC doesn’t address.
It was my experience that some AMCs at least were decent to work with, and as supplements to other client work, until those all died last year - or were shut off by HVCC. Landsafe was decent (”the Cadillac of AMCs” as I heard it called) up until ~last June, when BoA started sending a good proportion of their jobs God knows where. Now volume is slim and the new review system discourages an attempt to defend yourself by penalizing you longer if you do.
429 Seattle Appraiser // Mar 17, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Like you all I watched my hard earned business evaporate due to the HVCC. I recently applied to a few AMC’s. What a frustrating experience! Most are nothing more then fronts for placing orders with the already approved appraisers, too bad for me my clients didn’t turn to this type of AMC instead of subjecting us/themselves to the low fee AMC lottery system.
Not to reiterate what is already mentioned on this blog my additional frustration is that the AMC underwriters have various “opinions” on E&Os that range from where they want comments on the 1004, how they want the form filled out, which boxes to check, when you can put NA, and exactly how they want addendum information stated.
Form filling protocol!!!
THEN they grade and rate you on this crapola. To them a good appraisal is nothing more then a form that is filled out right, turned fast, and hits the number.
We are the mushroom, kept in the dark, feed you know what. When we stop getting orders from them they can blame it on the fact that you didn’t check the driveway box a “no-no” for one underwriter or that you did check the driveway box a “no-no” for the other lender.
In a call to the “underwriting” department about a subject condo project with a high precent of REO/short sales I was told NOT to meantion the current listings of REO’s … I now have an unfavorable rating with this AMC.
Has anyone else faced this frustration?
430 salvato // Mar 16, 2010 at 6:16 am
IT IS WHAT IT IS! STOP BLAMING THE HVCC! The HVCC Rule is NOT the problem. As we know it, this rule was forced upon FNMA, FHFA and BANKS. The HVCC was created to eliminate influence and pressure. Unfortunately, this rule was also created and implemented by the same organizations and individuals who are / would financially, profitably and politically benefit from it—–AMC’s, banks and politicians(from political endorsements?). The problem…we fixed one problem, but created another…AMC’s have become a loophole for Banks to profit, reduce liability on their end and pass it on to the Appraiser. Banks made it clear, their to big to fail(tarp), they are lending the money, they run the market, as long as it is “legal” they are the bosses and call the shots. The majority of these AMC’s are fully or partially owned by these same banks. Some of these AMC’s are also involved in the TITLE / CLOSING services. Some have reportedly manipulated homeowners into utilizing their TITLE services, ATTORNEY’S and of coarse APPRAISERS. This is one of many reasons the code was favorably amended (announcement 09-01) allowing lender’s ownership of AMC’s. For these reasons appraisers have no chance– lawsuits, standard FHA customary fees, etc. etc., would be useless. WHY would anyone with this “legal” power and control give it all up?
AMC’s are a legal business and would be a productive one if done right, but what is irresponsible, unproductive and should be considered illegal is their business practice. Bank/AMC’S are forcing appraisers and homeowners to go through these selected AMC’s for business and loan services. They’re profiting from the appraisers services and discreetly charging homeowners a higher cost than what would be customary. Is this not a form of monopolizing, fraud/non-disclosure? From these discreet charges, the Bank/AMC’s are controlling and paying the appraisers an unfeasible fee and no benefits to do the work. Is this not a form of labor law corruption or taxation without representation at its best? AMC fees(splits) could have been absorbed by the banks themselves instead of stealing it from the appraisers income. After all it is their money they are lending. Does the IRS/GOVT take a split fee for accountant’s services? Who pays the IRS for their services? Considering these are irresponsible or corrupt forms of practice, the appraisal industry and support organizations seem powerless to make any difference.
HVCC rule does NOT state they must utilize AMC’s. Pressure and negative influence could have simply been eliminated by having banks create their own independent non-commissioned appraisal review department to “blindly” order appraisals, provide better trained underwriters and fairly hold all parties equally responsible for unethical behavior (Its called a check and balance system). They could have simply eliminated the needless expense of an AMC and/or created a not for profit, market specific, rotating appraiser network ordering system set up by appraisal software companies /or banks, charging a small annual fee paid by appraiser and lenders whom sign up. This system could have been utilized to distribute orders and leave appraisers responsible to make/collect there own feasible service fees (which would eliminate the AMC payroll costs we are absorbing) and hand in a quality report which is what an appraiser should be qualified and trained to do. This would also have created more Bank, Broker & Appraisal trainee jobs having no effect on the then existing AMC’s. BANK AMC’s business practice’s are really not the most productive, proactive and beneficial solution to the real problem. There are many other alternatives, but the financial benefits for banks, AMC’S and politicians are too tremendous.
Appraisers are now facing profitable/unfeasible fee cuts, unrealistic turn times, lack of benefits, lack of job security (if turn time and fees are not met.), additional schooling /hours requirements, lack of income and the loss of assistant appraisers to absorb the slow months. R.E. transactions are not closing due to inaccurate low appraisal values and delayed closing time, which is usually due to the time lost between the appraisals to the AMC’S review dept to the banks, etc,. Appraisers are voluntarily or involuntarily leaving this job market by the dozens and it doesn’t a great prophet to predict that they will be leaving by the hundreds when the general job markets improve. What will replace the Appraiser, computers? Is this the plan? Appraiser’s only possible hope would be to(by the use of media and pressure)organize and consistently mandated non-negotiable standard feasible fee’s’ along with “responsible and reasonable turn-time” throughout the states. There is no other way. Even so, without change and the empowerment of AMC’s in this industry there will continue to be job losses, a lack of Appraisal Independence and Job Security. AMC’s way of doing business is not going to easily go away, unless it causes a MAJOR unfavorable financial impact on the economy, banks, or politician. Without proactive, responsible and regulated change, BANK AMC’s and their business practice will kill the appraisal industry and continue to complicate the future recovery of the economically dependent American real estate market. It’s just a matter of time before. This once again is about irresponsible greed, power and political endorsements, which is really what got us into this mess in the first place.
431 rich // Mar 15, 2010 at 11:18 am
I quit
432 George // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Another adventure into absurdity!
One AMC I have a good relationship with (tho they’re ruining it by going from an unlikely 48 hour turn-time to a ridiculous 24 hours. We got into the subject of reviews (desktop) and I heard a fee of $30; better than looking out the window! So I started…at a fee of $15! Any enthusiasm I had went out the window. Then I got an e-mail saying they had a “rush project” (does an AMC ever not have a rush project?) that would require about 10 minutes per report. The fee was $8 per hour! Am I selling donuts…and what are these reports?
But if you do 500 per month; that’s $4,000. This biz has become a total joke!
433 The Opinionator // Mar 9, 2010 at 10:21 pm
A word to Working RE - I would MUCH prefer for these submissions to be displayed “Last first”. In other owrds put the latest submission at the beginning, so we don’t have to slide all the way down the page EVERY time. Anyone agree? . . . .
434 The Opinionator // Mar 9, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Looks like this dialogue is running out of steam - I see longer & longer time lapses between postings. Probably the reason is that everything that needs to be said about AMC’s has been said.
But, one major point that I don’t think has been raised is that AMC’s cost the CONSUMER hundreds of dollars over actual appraiser fees. No-one cares about us (the appraisers) - but politicians have to be on the side of the consumer and that’s where we need to concentrate our efforts.
Not how are AMC’s bad for us, but answer the questions, “Are AMC’s bad for the public? “If so, in what way?”
Then “How can we convey those concerns to the government?”
“How can the implementation of HVCC be changed to protect the public”.
It’s my opinion that you can’t do a thorough, professional job for $200.00.
Office, auto, E&O and and other essential expenses take up about half of that, so the appraiser is earning maybe $100.00.
Of course we all want to do a ‘professional’, quality report every time - but low fees and impossible deadlines don’t help at all.
The consumer pays for, and deserves our best product - but AMC’s impede the process.
Once the public knows what their money is being spend on, I’m confident a lot of the problems will go away. We have to do a MUCH better job of getting our message out.
So, “Who you gonna call?”
435 Mike // Mar 8, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I have to agree with the majority of the rants on this site. Unfortunately, the appraisal industry has been taken over by the AMC’s. I have never worked for an AMC because their “Mafia” style cut is ridiculous! At the moment I’m left with one full pay customer, which is a local credit union. I was working w/ 15+ clients prior to HVCC. Sadly,these folks are now all out of business. What I want to know, is what can be done aside from refusing work from AMC’s? I hate to throw away the career I’ve built up over the past 15 years, but the income just isn’t there anymore.
436 George // Feb 28, 2010 at 6:22 pm
And the real issues are what, Salvo?
(Guess I can’t resist looking at a train-wreck…and I get a 99% in spelling). And use “professional” instead of “profession”…btw!
My point was/is this profession is dying. Every other entity in a real estate transaction wants appraisers to go away. The other players are doing a damn good job of getting it done.
Mr. Cuomo and his HVCC seem headed for the statehouse in NY and who knows where after that?
How are you gonna stop that train? You gonna have a cookout?
437 salvo // Feb 27, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Hey George, were all here venting, not writing reports, otherwise Im sure my fellow appraiser’s would be much more diligent, profession, and careful with their spelling. By the way, you may want to consider spell check, REALISE is spelled with a Z not S.. I guess we all make spelling mistakes during the mist of venting out. Lets stick to the real issues here, your insults are useless.
438 George // Feb 22, 2010 at 6:38 pm
I just realised that this rant was supposed to be about rating AMCs yet in however many sob tales; not many appraisers were willing to name “names”. I can only conclude that you are talking out of the side of your mouth and stuffing those $175 checks in your shirt. Unions, strikes…what a joke! Half of you can’t even spell but you want to “negotiate”. Don’t you get it? The AMCs are laughing at you/me/us. I’m outta here!
439 George // Feb 18, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Referencing back nearly a year ago; I came across the AMC Solidifi and its claims of full fees, etc. Filling out forms is a no-brainer but as a “tag” I added…”now how about some orders”? The answer astounded me. Their clients (lenders) had rosters of approved appraisers but “maybe” an opportunity might arise for me to do an appraisal! I asked the obvious question…”why are you soliciting new appraisers?” Never got a response nor can I figure out their game. If you want names of AMCs that really suck try these…E-Appraiseit, IMortgage, LSI. All had once had a nice reputation and were quite professional. They are now as professional as that corner in your town where you don’t stop for red lights!
440 Ed // Feb 17, 2010 at 10:33 am
You a-holes that work for amc’s are destroying this profession. With the amc it’s a race to the bottom with their fees. When the cost of an appraisal is the same as an avm, guess what valuation will get chosen. You’ve all chosen to give this profession less than 2 years, maybe less than 1 year. You’re all idiots. The HVCC is ILLEGAL!! Don’t you know that? Why do you want to make deals with a criminal enterprise? Make the HVCC legal first if you want to make deals. I’m ashamed of you, going for the fast buck and guaranteeing you won’t have a profession in a year or 2. You are the problem with amc’s.
441 Dan // Feb 9, 2010 at 7:48 am
Instead of fighting the AMCs, we should be pressuring our state governments to regulate their fees thusly:
Fee split with 20% maximum going to the AMC. That way, we use their influence with the lenders to put more money in our pockets.
442 Lori // Feb 4, 2010 at 10:15 am
Just watch this - it says it all and humorous.
Hitler on HVCC and AMC’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDUpXwoj5Ck
443 Mary Thompson // Feb 4, 2010 at 8:12 am
First thing I want to say…..Those appraisers that called in wanting to know what HVCC stood for!!! They need to get out of the business today. That is just plain scary!
As for HVCC (home valuation code of conduct) for those who want to know….LOL..
I am all for paying appraisers their reasonable and customary fees (as long as they produce a credible and informative report) and forcing AMC’s to follow suit, because most of them only look for those appraisers who will take the lowest fee. I know because I never get work from many of the large companies as my fees are not low enough..forget about my expertise or quality reporting.
I also believe strongly, those who stand to gain with the closing of a loan, ie: loan originators should NOT be allowed to order appraisals. We are going backwards if they do. They will go back to the game of pressure and giving assignments to those who produce the values they want.
HVCC is surely not perfect by any stretch, but since then we have seen a huge reduction in calls wanting to know what a property will appraise for before they even send a report. The good ol comp checks are a thing of the past, not to mention against USPAP. Desk reviews are now my offerings for those wanting an idea on value without paying for the entire report.
I think the movement toward using appraisers who are familiar with and who live in the same area of the homes being appraised is perfect. I think if you live and work in a certain city on a daily basis, you should be the first one they consider to do that appraisal, it only makes sense. We should not be driving 30+ miles to a property if there are others who live and work in that area all the time.
There of course are exceptions, but gone should be the days where appraisers travel all over gods country doing reports in areas they really have no clue about.
Thanks for letting me vent
444 Jeffrey Key // Feb 4, 2010 at 6:13 am
I have been told by AMC personnel and personally experienced AMCs NOT using certain panel appraisers.
In seems they do so cause they don’t hit client’s required value!!!
(now of course they won’t tell you this - you just mysteriously stop getting work after the client questions the value on your appraisals)
And if the client complains about the value, the AMC requires numerous explanations from appraiser to explain value (sending you a msg).
I NEVER SEE THIS QUESTION ON ANY AMC SURVEYS…HMM..
Anyone else experience this?/
445 George C. Jalil // Feb 3, 2010 at 9:14 am
I have been a residential appraiser since 1981.
The National Association of Realtors has an appraisal designation RAA. If more appraisers would join NAR or if the Appraisal Institute would affiliate itself with NAR we would then have a very powerful voice in Washington.
Realtor’s interests are always very strongly represented by NAR. If appraisers had strong representation we would benefit greatly. I do not think it would solve all the problems but it would make sure our interest were defended in a powerful way.
NAR for appraisers is like having a big brother in a school yard full of bullies. Its that simple
If you want to know what one little appraiser can do, Join NAR’s appraisal arm now!
Will this ever happen?
well I can dream can’t I
446 Mark // Jan 25, 2010 at 5:24 am
I have been in the profession for over 20 years. I could have made at least twice the amount of income I have over the years but my constant refusal to hit numbers, inability to not adequately describe the property (ie: deferred maintenance, external issues, etc), not allowing others to choose the comparables, etc. So I hear now that the AMC’s are here to solve the issues, to make a system that allows the appraisal process to truly work. Well…… this is how my 20 years of experience, hard work, ethical behavior is be rewarded….. the amount of work that I am getting is down over 66% and the fees that are being offered to me is down about 25-40%. All the client relationships that I built over the last 20 years is gone. The lenders that wanted a good ethical, hardworking appraiser and would pay a fair fee for that experience and ethical behavior can no longer choose me over the guy that has little to no experience or was a local appraiser that any lender that cared about not getting crap appraisals would stay away from. It’s funny, these AMC’s will grade your report, post your turn time and than treat you like you are some form filler and tell you how to do your job. It just blows my mind sometimes when I talk with a reviewer and learn how they think an appraisal is completed, their complete lack of an understanding of the appraisal process. You can do a complex appraisal, really utilize your experience, knowledge and intelligence to provide them with a high quality appraisal and if there is an angle in the picture they don’t like, a comment that some reviewer at the amc (out of the blue) wants in the report you will get a grade of like a 7 out of 10. So some hack appraiser can slap together some report, could use inappropriate sales, really be off the mark as far as value and not truly describe the property and if the reviewer likes the angles of the picture and doesnt deem they want some additional abitrary comment in, than wow, he gets a perfect score of 10 out of 10. I could go on and on of how this system is so flawed and how it truly is killing the industry and I am sure we will get back to some common sense one day but I bet you there will be far less good appraisers around. God help us all.
447 Jim // Jan 14, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Yes their are good amc’s out there, Quantrix comes to mind. Their are also bad ones, Lincoln Appraisal for one. Constant pressure to hit the value their clients, such as Crecent Mortgage, needs.
448 bryan // Jan 9, 2010 at 10:10 am
its ashame that as appraisers we are willing or more correctly if we want to continue doing appraisals we have to put up with amc’s. amc’s are nothing more than what use to be internal appraisal departments at the banks. now the banks that own these amcs are profitting off of our industry and they aren’t even licensed appraisers. nice business model. they are collecting appraisal fees and they supposedly want an independent appraisal!?! what a joke our industry has become. until the banks get their hands out of our pockets im ashamed to say were are nothing but form fillers.
this is corruption plain and simple and our elected officials allow this to continue and voted on allowing this sytem to take hold.
the american consumer will not stand for this and change will happen.
449 Ken Maurer // Dec 23, 2009 at 10:26 am
I hate to say it but we knew this was coming especially with all the mortgage fraud during the real estate boom. AMC’s have been around as long as I have been appraising, 21 years. Appraisers are a funny bunch, if we had a strong lobby group (sorry appraisal institute you dropped the ball) maybe we could have been involved in this transition. Were we tired of lender pressure, yes for the past 20 years!! But all we do is complain. If every appraiser refused to work for AMC’s paying the low fees, than we would control the fees and our destiny.
450 John // Dec 11, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I just got off the phone with a major AMC. I called them to complain that it doesn’t matter how fast I text them back for an assignment, it has already been accepted by another appraiser. I got five text messages in the last two days and didn’t get one assignment. I complained that every time they text message it costs me $.15 and that I wouldn’t mind paying the $.15 if I got an occassional appraisal. The woman said that the way they assign appraisals is, when an appraisal comes in the put the address in their computer and all the appraisers within a certain radius gets a text message. First one to text back gets the assignment. I told the woman on the phone that I didn’t think it could be any worse than that. I was told that what I should do is get a PO Box in a busy area and they could feed me work that way. They are already doing that with a few appraisers. She told me that she thinks that I am nasty and that is why I not getting any work. She said they want to have a mutual friendly working situation and that by being nasty it was making it hard for them to assign me work. I said you want to talk nasty, I did two appraisals for your company and I am waiting over 60 days to get paid a lousy $210 an appraisal. She hung up on me. Anyone who thinks that this AMC is a good thing, is out of their minds. After twenty-five years in the business I think it’s time for me to find a new profession.
451 Vicki // Dec 1, 2009 at 12:00 pm
More feedback from our marketing efforts:
Maybe you have read this advertisement from Special Asset Management (SAM): Bank Appraisers Needed - Valuation Opportunities for Bank REO Properties
Amid the current housing market crisis, the nation’s banks and financial institutions need qualified real estate valuation experts for third-party services on their foreclosed and troubled real estate properties, both residential and commercial. This is one intermediary source that matches work with appraisers and other vendors. There is a one-time registration fee. Orders are awarded on a bidding system, so there is no guarantee of work. Appraisers/vendors keep 100 percent of their negotiated fees. OREP members qualify for a significant group discount at sign up. Please visit https://specialassetmanagement.com/UserDetails.aspx?UserType=M and be sure to enter code OREP27 when paying, to receive a $115.00 discount from $250.00 to $135.00.
We paid the fee many months ago (8 months or so) and have not received any opportunities. I recently emailed and received this reply (in part): Let me share with you some overall numbers on opportunities provided to our panel. Since June of this year, we have forwarded in excess of fifty (50) opportunities to the panel, in 30 different states. The quantity is varied–August was an unusually strong month with 23 opportunities forwarded, while October and November only provided a handful of opportunities. By all accounts, home sale activities for distressed properties are expected to greatly increase early in 2010.
50 opportunites since June and today is December 1st? Not great numbers.
I like to believe this organization is legitimately trying to provide a service for the money received. I hope they are successful.
Be leary in spending $250 or $135. You may not receive any opportunities as we have not.
I hope this feedback helps!
452 Vicki // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:25 am
I’ve been asked to provide this feedback from our Chief Appraiser. iMortgage’s retrospective review department lacks seasoning and review staff tend to view reports with an eye for new financing instead of as a retrospective valuation. This group needs education. Our chief appraiser was not allowed to speak to the review appraiser after having 8 requests to revisit a retrospective valuation to determine if a retrospective review was required. None of the additional requests for information had any merit or the information was fully explained in the original report. iMortgage is also among the lowest paying. At this time it is questionable if we will continue the appraiser-client relationship.
If hope this feedback helps!
453 Carter // Nov 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Less than $300 for a single family report is a failed business model in my mind. So far I have managed to stick by this. If if can’t I will start the process of finding another profession and or job. Accepting $200 fees for a full report is pitiful. I was getting more in the early 1990’s. There are other options out there and working as a tenant farmer for AMC’s is not one.
454 Vicki // Nov 17, 2009 at 9:53 am
Allen, thanks for your comments. I think your comments are what this blog is about. We need to get away from the “if you don’t like it - don’t work for them attitude” and figure out which ones we can work with (fees, turntime, hassle factor).
455 Allen // Nov 9, 2009 at 8:23 pm
AppraiserLoft.com- does not pay on time…3-9 months after completion of assignment. 6 months average.
ProTeck- ranks the appraiser based on turn time and quality…enphasis on turn time and not quality. My ranking 3 out of 5 starts….99% quality rating 70% turn time.
Southwest Financial- very low fees and high demand on fast turn time.
LSI- pays on time and fees are reasonable.
My state is requiring all AMC’s to register prior to doing business in the state of Arkansas, but they do not have the man power or revenue to “regulate” the activity.
As a whole, I think we asked for this type of business model, it just isn’t what we expected. I think that management companies should be regional, not national. An appraisal management in California has not business working with appraisers in New York or Tennessee. If the appraiser needs to be competent in his market, then so should the management company. How can a AMC company employee “review” and appraisal for a market they know nothing about? Insurance companies have to be licensed in the state they operate, we should apply the same principle of “knowledge” to AMCs. I really can’t wait for the AMC’s “USPAP” to come out. Should make for some interesting reading.
456 LarryXA // Nov 6, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Thx, this has definitely made my day!
_______________________
wtf
457 Cracker // Nov 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I don’t get all this unrest. If you think the fee is too small don’t accept the job. If you don’t like having to commit to a 48 hour turn around then don’t accept the job. You are still free to cultivate clients with the lawyers, banks, ect. You are still free to make the appointments at your conveniece, you are still free to work out of a large appraiser shop or your garage. And you are still free to go sell cars if you don’t like the deal. So, Whats up??
458 Vicki // Oct 28, 2009 at 11:59 am
I just read most of this blog and wanted to comment on an AMC I recently came across.
I am the marketing person for a ten appraiser firm (I am also a certified appraiser). It is my job to find and negotiate business when we are slow and to complete appraisal assignments when we are busy.
I recently looked into and signed up for ProVal USA. It appeared that some appraisers were receiving assignments in our area through this AMC. I left two messages for someone to call me back so I could better understand this AMC (no one answers their phones!) and received no calls back. Shortly thereafter we started to receive emails to pay them $50 to sign up with them and we would have to also pay them around $75 for each order we receive. They would debit our credit card. It looks like we would have to collect from their clients as well. What if their clients didn’t pay? We declined to do business with them. Pretty scary! I don’t even know what they do to earn their money.
Please feel free to correct me if my information is wrong. I wasn’t able to veryify anything with this company because they wouldn’t call me back.
We do work with many AMCs but our priorty clients are banks, credit unions and government agencies.
459 Tony Grubb // Oct 22, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I have to say that accepting an order for $175 is shocking given how hard we’ve all worked to obtain our licenses/certifications. I remember just about a year ago I was getting paid $400 for a 1004 and now I’m doing them for $275 on average.
We all know the horror stories of how AMC’s work and the fees they dangle in front of us like a worm on a hook. However, those of you accepting orders for a percentage of the fees we used to command are helping drive our fees down.
As a father of 4 I understand the need to put food on the table. However, we’re supposed to be better than that. We’re supposed to tell THEM our fee and get paid for our work. Not the other way around.
To hear an appraiser say $175 is ok is a disgrace to the appraisal profession. You should get out immediately because any appraiser proud of their career and hard work would never accept an assignment for that amount.
We may not have a lobbying group or union organization, but we do have our Email and phones. Something must be and can be done to give us back control of our profession. Call or Email your Senator or member of Congress and tell them what the AMC’s are doing. Demand that lenders pay them and allow us to bill the lender directly. We can do this if we all want fair fees. But as long as appraisers accept orders for next to nothing it’ll just make the task that much harder. Stand your ground and we can make things happen.
460 Mike Read // Sep 28, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Could you arrange to have the comments so the latest is at the top of the list, not at the bottom.
461 Lori Davenport // Sep 25, 2009 at 9:20 am
To Chris in FL, even though you didn’t mention me as a well-read professional, I’m OK, really, I am.
I agree with you on forming a union. Not sure on standardizing fees - but it might actually be a good thing.
Lets get the “National Independent Fee Appraisers Union” going. I’m on board in CT.
462 Chris // Sep 18, 2009 at 7:43 am
Certified Residential Appraiser, FL
I have now read virtually every comment in this blog. I want to say that I appreciate the suggestions and comments put forth, particularly by several obviously experienced and well-read professionals, such as Chuck Miller, David in NC, Jeff Oliver and others. I am from a family of appraisers, mostly on the commercial side. My father thought I was crazy to want to be a residential appraiser–his comment to me was “they (meaning the lenders and government) step all over you…you have no lobby, no voice.” Sadly, he has been proved right.
I love our line of work and I have watched our profession be hounded, beat up and railroaded in the past two years. We need to be unified, we need to act as one voice. As David from NC put it, “without an appraisal, there is (typically) no loan.” We have got to find a way, state by state, nationally, or both to unite as one. If we, as a PROFESSION, would take some initiative and stop viewing each other as competition and instead act on ALL our behalf, I think we could all work at a higher fee, make a better living and be our own advocates instead of taking whatever is shoved down our throats.
I think standardizing fees and/or forming a union is an excellent start.
463 Randall Haines // Sep 17, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I see all the comments that are satisfied with AMC’s, but no percentages on the values they do not get. AMC’s quit sending my Company assignments in late 2006, since I would not get there desired values. If you do not provide value for them, they will slowly phase you out for someone that will. Are these satisfied appraisers the same undertrained appraisers that got values for the AMC’s and lenders during the high inflationary period when they used unreliable data from some “rubber stamper”. If you do market research like your suppose to, and not plug in pretty numbers to meet desired ratios, you do not get rich in this business.
464 Jim // Sep 16, 2009 at 7:30 am
This appraiser has it RIGHT. The lack of independence has helped us down this path of inflated values. The only appraisers against HVCC are the ones whose next assignment depends on pleasing the mortgage brokers/lenders who can NEVER be pleased completely. Good editorial.
465 Z // Sep 14, 2009 at 2:54 am
Is there any professional office where a client can call/walk in and say “I need this and I will pay you X” and you have to take it? It’s called a flea market as far as I know….
My favorite is the “Independent Valuation Protection Institute ” established by Cuomo for appraisers to turn to for complaints, assistance etc…It consists of 1 web page, no real info, no phone number for complaints which is supposed to be there, no email, no address….nothing.
Lastly, I wonder why Mr Cuomo who is so intent appraiser independence from lenders turning around and allowing lenders to own the AMC’s? It is like having a farmer hire a wolf to watch his henhouse.
My 2 cents….
466 Dana Matonis // Sep 11, 2009 at 5:30 pm
As an appraiser with 26 years experience, if a client asked me what my fee was I would tell him. I’m under no obligation to shelter the income of the AMC.
First I don’t work for AMC’s which is why I’m looking at early retirement.
Second; by working for them for any fee you are helping them to stay in business.
Lastly, Cuomo is the Attorney General of New York and soon will have to deal with the Department of Justice for overstepping his bounds. They will find him guilty of any number of violations of law not to mention his monetary gain from the “Code”, but because of his connections and wealth little will be done !!
They are already touting him as the next Governor of New York because he has done such a great job ? WTF
467 Richard Hardy // Sep 3, 2009 at 9:11 pm
I have been appraising in Hawaii for more than 15 years and elsewhere for longer. It is tragic to me that I haven’t yet seen any comments regarding the root of the ‘financial Crisis’. We (the people) had sufficient regulations in place to prevent what happened - Unfortunately it was NOT enforced. I am NOT the Bank that loaned my customers money to someone who walked in as a “Janitor” and stated he made $10,000/month and walked out with a loan far exceeding his ability. I am NOT the Underwriter who turned a blind eye to discrepancies in the loan package. I an NOT FNMA nor FHLMC who allowed continuing and exxceedingly higher and higher LTV’s to be acceptable. I am NOT the AMC who is owned by a bank, or an AMC who is owned by ‘that’ banks brother-in-law. I am NOT the appraiser who inflated the values. I AM however, an appraiser who spent the last 15+ years developing a good relationship with a variety of entities - some are AMC’s - some are Lender’s - some WERE Mortgage Brokers. But alas, Our government, in it’s infinite wisdom, has allowed an individual who nearly collapsed HUD to now ‘cramdown FNMA’s throat’ the “HAVOC” ,(read HVCC) which absolutlely will NOT solve the problem. Just as in the ’80’s, the appraisers were blamed for the collapse of the S & L Industry - We (Appraisers) have yet again risen to the ‘top’ and have single-handedly bankrupt the world . . .Unfortunately, the national appraising community is diverse, meaning we are 150,000 independant business people. I know AI is trying, along with others, bet we really are too fragmented - I wish I had an answer that would give all of us a common voice. But Wait . . .How about the Government? Don’t they work for us? Can’t we find someone in Congress who could see our plight? Or is it just going to be the continuing downward spiral . . .For me, I am a Flag Waving American - I believe in the ability of this country to wright itself. I am a hugh believer in that “One person standing alone is still a majority of one”. Damn the torpedos - full speed ahead
468 ALLEN CHAMBERLAND // Sep 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I would be in favor of bypassing the AMCs by forming a trade assoication with direct contact with mortgage lenders. I no longer get orders from AMCs as I will not work for any less for someone who does not care about my appraisal license nor my livelihood verses the regular client pool I have in my local area. I have to laugh when I get a call from an AMC asking about price and will “get back to you”. 1-2 weeks have gone by and they call back and still insist on a 24 hour turnaround time- by this time I have picked up 2-4 new assignments that have become my new priority. ..
469 Margie Gosser // Sep 1, 2009 at 8:25 am
Hello, after 26 years in the business of having regular ethical clients, deciding how to handle pressure, deciding to be and act professional, I am pretty much leaving the profession. Pressure did not start with the real estate crisis. Who does not have day-to-day pressure in their business? Pressure to do OR not do the right thing? Lawyers, Politicians, Judges, Doctors, Government Lobbyist…come on!!! Now, the most unethical people in my day-to-day are the AMCs. AMCs want my professional services for a fee of $140, pressure me for a turn-time, don’t use me again if I don’t comply, & capture me with uneducated pressure & requests. I have heard there is a “appraiser black-list”…guess I am or shortly will be on it! I just can’t do it…I can not do ‘enough’ ethical services to PAY my monthly “running a business” expenses. How about this since “price fixing” is NOW where we are with AMCs. The Government form a Research Group inclusive of Appraiser’s from sections and sub-sections across the country to Provide a fair “Appraisal Service Form Fee Schedule” based upon time-Type of form that AMCs, Banks, Mortgage Personel would be mandated to use. It could be a “range” BUT fair to the appraiser in their Area- Scope. You could still discuss special circumstances but at least the fee would go up not down! This task would not take long or be complicated. Appraiser’s input would be paramount. As far as government cost…no more than the HVCC notification! AMCs have no regulation, not mandated to pay for services or abide by any rules. Government was at fault for not describing the clear use of AMCs in the beginning, AND AMCs owned by Banks are robbing appraisers of our FAIR WAGE. I believe the Government’s master plan is to get rid of appraiser’s…it must be because they have pretty much killed the profession. Who would want to go through all the education down time, pay all state fees, CE, E&O, software, advertising, and all else to make less than …being able to afford it?
470 liz // Aug 26, 2009 at 10:54 am
It has been very helpful reading this blog. When I first entered this world 12 years ago I was full of hope and excited about the appraisal profession. I feel I had great hands on training by my certified. I feel very confident about the quality of my appraisals and I am very thorough. I am horrified by the work that I review. So much so that it is not worth my time to review most of it as it takes too long to go over all the errors. It is a joke… I recently reviewed a report by an appraiser who has taken my workload by undercutting my fees and turntimes. He is a licensed appraiser and turns out terrible reports. He obviously did not receive adequate training. Back to the problem. I think there is a fundamental issue with this industry. I think it is poor practice to leave the training to individuals who view trainees as competition and use them for their gain until they can wobble out into battle and hopefully last long enough to establish themselves. Not all do, but a lot take advantage. What is going to happen to this industry if someone does not start turning out quality appraisers. It is left to us yet we don’t want to due to the liability and as soon as you train someone they leave and they are competing for the same work. I think bad appraisers give all of us a bad name and has added to the problem. I think low fees are not the core and or only issues here. I have a mortgage to make and you do what work you can each day. I don’t think not accepting an appraisal due to fee alone is going to change anything. There is not an organized front and at least i know that even though i occasionally take discounted orders I know they will get quality work from my office regardless of fee. I get irritated by the personal attacks by many in this blog saying accepting the lower fee is the problem! Because I accept a lower fee does not validate abuse nor does it condone poor appraisal practice by everyone involved.
My dad started an AMC when all this talk of the HVCC first started. He had the idea that as an AMC developed by an appraiser would be fair and it would be an opportunity for appraisers to be compliant and keep some of the work they had established before hvcc hit. he only charges $50 per order so most work would still sit in the $300 range. He started contacting appraisers nationwide to get their workload processing through the AMC before the deadline so they could keep their business. It was pathetic! We were hung up on, laughed at, told we were trying to take their work, that HVCC was never going to happen and many appraisers knew nothing about HVCC two months before it happened. We have only ourselves to blame because we are clueless as to what is going on in this industry. We are cut throat and do not work together. I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that we are dropping like flies and I am so burned out I don’t care that I have lost most of my work due to my fees. I am still hopeful that this will still be a good business for me but I am looking for a back up as much of the braindamage may not be worth it anymore…
side note: who is regulating the amc’s it seems it is left to each state to have certain guidelines. Why are we the only ones with heavy financial penalties not only from our board but civil as well!! Who is our advocate anyway.
For what is it worth I have not had any issues with rels, my fees are 290 and i get more work when they are busy and random orders when it is slow. I have had a good experience with servicelink until recently now they want 200 and 225 per order. mda solutions i receive 260 to 300. After that, it is the random trickle when companies need something quick or a certified. I did not have a good experience with national and i am not inerested in their work. My dad has had decent work load with LSI at a discount of course. a little input from my experience hope that helps. Nice to vent to folks in the same boat.
471 Guy in La // Aug 17, 2009 at 8:59 pm
David,
I’m not sure if you were responding to my comment…if you were, let me say this. I don’t disagree with “anything” you say…I certainly understand the value of the service I and other appraisers like yourself perform - it’s the other guys (i.e. AMCs) who don’t! To them, this “is” a game - a numbers game playing one appraiser against the other - that’s my point.
All I refer to in my previous comment is the very same “psychological marketing” tactics the marketing experts have been advocating for decades. And let’s face it - we are human beings - we have a brain, which immediately implies there is always some sort of “psychology” going on - especially when the other side (AMCs) is trying to use it on us. It’s human nature - and not a sin - let alone to raise question to my or any other appraiser’s professionalism. Personally, I don’t see the connection.
My professionalism is there and apparent in every step of the process when I am performing an appraisal assignment. The “psychological marketing” tactics I use on AMCs have nothing to do with how I appraise - they’re just to achieve my desired fee. Not to mention those “professional” marketing experts (everybody pays money to hear lecture) would certainly approve.
472 David // Aug 17, 2009 at 11:42 am
Certified Residential Appraiser, NC:
First of all, appraising is not a “game.” Why would an appraiser consider it as such? This is not a game! It’s a responsible profession that carries dire consequence if you falter in your representation of property data and value conclusions.
The HVCC does not apply to appraisers, but to lenders. It has proliferated the use of AMCs and has promoted their purpose, whether intended or not. However, nothing has given more power to AMCs more so than the real estate appraiser. Appraisers simply do not understand the value of the “appraisal” in the overall lending process. They do not understand the Value Theory of Business and those who make decisions to accept the lower fees, ridiculous turn times, and allow the AMC to MANAGE their business are affecting the businesses of those who consider themselves to be true professionals who possess a sense of business and value contribution to the lending process.
Try the following and see what results you get. Walk into a Doctors office for treatment. Tell the Doctor you are only going to pay $50 total for treatment, and this is not a co-pay, it’s a total of $50. You’ll immediately be told to “take a hike.” The Doctor knows that you will not get treatment for that price from another Doctor. You’ll simply do without treatment!
This scenario may also be contributing to the low fees accepted from AMCs. An appraiser trains new appraisers and the trainees’ fee is $150. And suppose the fee, after experience is gained, reaches $175. The overall fee as an example is $350. The trainee, once licensed or certified, sees an opportunity to establish their own business. Keep in mind, it is very cost effective to register a company name, buy your own software and E&O, business equipment (which nearly everyone has anyway), and work out of your home. The newly certified appraiser sees this….”I can make $75 to $100 more for an assignment on my own versus working for my supervisor.” This is where the lack of business experience creates poor decision making and the decisions made by these inexperienced individuals becomes detrimental to other appraisers. Many appraisers have no clue as to what it cost to operate their businesses. I see this as a huge dilemma for those who do know.
I recently made the following calculations regarding who is paid what in the loan process. It is based upon a loan of $175,000. The lender/investor is excluded as we all know their profits are astronomical. This scenario assumes mortgage brokers get 1.5%.
Broker - $2,625, or ……….. 1.5%
Realtor - $10,500, or …………6%
Attorney - $600, or ………..3/10 of 1%
Appraiser - $275, or ………..1/10 of 1%
Let’s look at the contribution of the appraiser AND the appraisal in the lending process.
I’ve applied my own scenario afterwards to show how appraising compares to the discussion.
The following writings are from mathematicians and business scholars who have won Nobel prizes or have made contributions to the business and economic worlds. They include John Nash, John von Neumann, Adam Brandenburger, and Barry Nalebuff. The theory states, and by the way is proven to be true:
The definition of added value is, “Added value equals total value created with you in the game, minus total value created without you in the game.” Consider the mortgage lending process as a “game.” A key concept of the “game” theory of business is added value. This theory states that if competition is left unfettered, no player will get more than his or her individual added value in a game. Thus, added value allows us to characterize who has power and who does not. It allows us to understand how the pie is created and how it is divided. Following is a way to think about creating value and capturing value. Understand, there is a dual purpose here. The first is where appraisers have failed, in my opinion.
1. CREATING VALUE is an inherently COOPERATIVE process. To create value, people CANNOT ACT IN ISOLATION. They have to recognize their INTERDEPENDENCE. The IMPORTANCE OF THE PRODUCT, good, or service CREATES THE VALUE.
2. Capturing value is inherently COMPETITIVE. Single entities wishing to capture value will make the individual determination as to the value of the product to be captured. Creating value that can be captured is the essence of business. However, one must realize, when more and more players contributing similar products enter the game, individual value can be diminished. This is competition.
For example, what is the added value of the glass that makes up the screen in a laptop computer? Without strong and lightweight glass, there would be no laptop computers. So, the added value of the glass is the same as the added value of the laptop computers, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are several makers of computer glass. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of glass, but what is the added value of their particular glass.
Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting small manufacturing cost advantages. The computer makers would not miss any one manufacturer very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a glass that was even slightly less likely to break than that of its’ rivals. A broken screen renders a laptop practically useless. Thus, the added value of a tougher glass would equal the whole pie multiplied by the reduction in the chance of breakage, which is likely to change the value of the particular glass to dollars per computer rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the laptop computer) rather than one’s link in the chain (making glass).
Now, let’s rephrase the above scenario to apply to the mortgage lending “game.”
What is the added value of the appraisal that provides the property condition and value to a lender? Without an appraisal there would be no mortgage loan. So, the added value of the appraisal is the same as the added value of the mortgage loan, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are countless appraisers providing appraisal services. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of the appraisal, but now becomes what is the added value of the individual appraiser.
Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting competitive pricing for similar, undifferentiated services. The lenders or AMC’s/VMC’s would not miss any one appraiser very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a means of completing quality, mistake-free reports in two hours rather than two days at lower fees. No appraisals renders the loan process worthless. Thus, the added value of a more reliable, faster, and cheaper appraisal would equal the whole pie multiplied by the improved service, which is likely to change the value of the particular appraiser to dollars per appraisal rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the mortgage loan) rather than one’s link in the chain (the appraisal).
This is a clear indication that the value within the mortgage lending process, or “game,” is the appraisal, not the appraiser. Lenders and AMC’s/VMC’s do not consider the value the individual appraiser provides to the process as they have injected their own guidelines that every appraiser must follow. Simply meet those guidelines and you have an acceptable appraisal, regardless of the quality of the data content. AMC’s/VMC’s primary goals are to find the cheapest and quickest, and those who can follow guidelines.
For now, think of the “game” as a “pie” consisting of several “slices.” Each slice represents the entities involved in completing a mortgage lending transaction. They would most likely include: 1) the lenders; 2) the borrower; 3) the attorneys; 4) the AMCs/VMCs; and 5) the appraisal. One must ask, which slice of pie contributes the most value to the pie, and if that slice were removed, what then becomes the value of the pie? Remove the lender, no money, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the borrower, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the attorney. Deeds can still be recorded. Title searches can still be made. The pie may retain value, but the real effect is undetermined. Remove the AMC/VMC. Value is not affected. Remove the appraisal. The pie becomes worthless. However, replacing the appraisal slice with a multiple slices called “appraisers” diminishes the value of each appraiser slice of the pie. If one appraiser leaves the pie there are countless others to fill the void. The slice entitled appraisers has lost value until such circumstance arises where all appraisers leave the pie. At that point the pie is once again worthless.
We are not an industry, we are a profession. And until we realize this and act as a profession rather than as individuals, we will never reach a plateau similar to that of Doctors, attorneys, or other highly skilled professions. I, for one, do not allow others to manage my daily business operations. I do not allow others to coerce, pressure, or intimidate me. I consider myself a professional and my business a profession, not an industry. I, like Doctors, provide a much needed service that has economic ramifications tthroughout the U.S. If that’s not responsibility I don’t know what is.
473 Guy in La // Aug 16, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I share the frustrations of everyone here. I will offer a little advice that has worked for me to some extent with AMCs, but first I have to share something my father told me years ago - and I have to laugh at its present relevence. He once told me as I go through life…”son, if you ever have to be a whore, make sure you’re not a cheap one.” At a young age it didn’t make much sense to me back then, but I’m understanding he wisdom now.
But for my advice at how I’ve kind of stuck it back at some AMCs. When they first contact me with an absurd low-ball fee, I give them a speech about how they are getting a “Rolls-Royce service for the price of a beat up Volkswagon” - I little fun on my part. I also ask them to take note of the quality of my work compared to other appraisers who work for the same peanuts.
Then, after doing one or two jobs for them, I email them and ask them what they think of my work. I get a reply thanking me with a compliement on the quality of my work. I then email them back and say “okay, now that you recognize the quality of “my” service, here is my revised fee schedule of what I’m willing to work for. If I don’t hear back from you with any jobs, then I’ll understand your desire to use another appraiser.”
What happens? Most of the AMCs I do this to will phone me. Naturally they’re not happy, they try to convince me to go back to my previously agreed fee. Now at this point, what does this tell you? It says they like my work and definitely want to continue using me - and of course I throw that in their face and let them know I know that’s why they’re calling me.
I alway act magnanomous and say something like “oh, I perfectly understand if you wish to use a poorer quality appraiser at a lower fee, and I’m sure your lender/client will also understand.” They catch on quickly I’m not budging.
The end result: they cave! Oh, there’s a few who won’t, but you would be surprise they will cave. Sure, the quantity of jobs much drop off - by a little - but I make that up by pulling this stunt with more AMCs to make up the difference.
Trust me, this works. I have some of the biggest name AMCs paying me $300+. The trick here is you have to first “suck them in” by doing a couple of jobs at their fee, then pull the bait and switch. It’s about time we appraisers beat them at their own game. By no means am I trying to brag here, my intention is to help every appraiser in this country accomplish the same with these clowns as I have. I wish everyone great success!
474 GFC // Aug 15, 2009 at 8:26 am
Since May 1st when the appraisal industry was turned over to the AMC’s my 35 years of honest quality appraisal work by a staff of up to 24 appraisers in 3 locations is finished…….I quit! I just recently closed all offices and laid off all appraisers and trainees. The AMC’s still send a few low fee - fast turn around assignments which I accept, only to let them rot on the shelves never to be inspected or completed. Hope this helps the AMCs with their client relations. So long and good luck to all you good and honest appraisers.
475 Jodi Langford // Aug 13, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I was recently contacted by an AMC called Valuation Support Services. The approval packet they asked me to fill out included their fee schedule which I was required to agree to and sign. These were the lowest fee’s I have ever seen. Insultingly low. For example their 1004 URAR/Single Family fee is $200.00. In our area, the usual and customary fee is $310 at rock bottom to $350.00+. For a 2055 exterior they offer $145.00! Of course, I declined at their fees, but sent them a letter with my fee schedule attached, offering my services, should they decide to pay the customary fee’s. I am confident that NO competent appraiser would join their panal at their insultingly low fee’s. I only hope no one in my area sells out to them.
476 Mike Goff // Aug 10, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I don’t work for unreasonable fees and unrealistic turn times. Look at VA fees and turn times, that’s the norm for residential assignments.
I have over thirty five years in this profession and refuse to pimp myself, or my appraisers. Lenders, AMC’s, and form filling cut rate appraisers get what they deserve.
When anyone wants the job done right, and wants to pay an reasonable fee with a realistic turn time, my office will accept the assignment. I get very few assignments from Lenders and/or AMC’s, what does that tell you.
I turn in all “crap” work to the appropriate agencies, whether it is in review or if I find about it from another source. There is a lot of crap out there. I don’t review the appraiser, but the work product.
It appears there is a lot of demand for review work. Get qualified to do this work, and clean up your profession. Get the “crappers” out of the business. If you want to accept low fees, I don’t have a problem with that, just do your job and govern yourself accordingly.
Most AMC’s shun quality appraisers, and I am politically active in this regard. Get involved, it is your profession. Lots of States coming up with legislation on AMC’s, they need input from the quality appraisers.
How do I live? My clients generally are attorneys, county and state government, and compliance review clients. Learn to testify or teach, it separates the wannabes from the real thing.
477 Lori Davenport // Jun 24, 2009 at 10:38 am
Thanks Dana for the supporting comment.
Going over some old paperwork from Realtor orientation back in 2001, I came across this page: “Appraisal vs CMA vs BPO”
I am not going to copy all of the text, but there are some important things we were taught then, and I wonder if any of this is STILL the LAW in CT today. If so, lenders and RE agents are violating the law constantly by using BPO’s. Here are the items of note:
“An appraisal is an analytical method of arriving at an opinion of value…developed using the guidelines of USPAP…requires an apppraisal license or certification…a CMA is not an appraisal but simply an analysis of properties that have sold or are on the market made in anticipation of obtaining a listing for sale…A licensed real estate broker may perform a CMA ONLY as part of listing a property…A BPO is similar to a CMA but is generally performed for a lender who has or intends to foreclose on a property. A licensed real estate broker or salesperson CANNOT perform a BPO except under the same conditions as a CMA…A real estate broker or salesperson MAY NOT CHARGE A FEE for either a CMA or a BPO without violation of the laws of the state of CT regarding licensing. ONLY A LICENSED OR CERTIFIED REAL ESTATE APPRAISER MAY RECEIVE A FEE FOR ESTIMATING THE MARKET VALUE OR MARKET PRICE OF REAL ESTATE”.
I think many lenders and RE agents are in violation. First off because they know they are not doing it for the listing, but there are ways around that. But they ARE being paid a fee and that is in clear violation of what was taught to us in Realtor school. Unless of course this law has been done away with. Does anyone know if it has? What about other states?
I know alot of our work has gone out to RE agents doing BPO’s but I had no idea that it might actually be illegal.
478 Dana Matonis // Jun 11, 2009 at 11:49 am
For those appraisers that have not read the information and findings provided by C. Butterfield et. al. with the Appraisers Union also know as the Real Estate Professionals Free Trade Coalition . Drop them a request at info@Appraisalunion.org
The information is well documented and it is a thourough and detailed explanation of the players, as well as the how and why, those in control are as commited to taking our income as much as we wish to keep it.
479 Dana Matonis // Jun 11, 2009 at 11:10 am
I’m going to support what was written by Lori Davenport earlier. AMC’s do not appear to be distributing work fairly, if they distribute it at all. I have been a appraiser since the early 80’s and over the years when approached by a AMC let them know under no uncertain terms what I thought of them and where they might direct their work.
Fast forward to 2009 - and you guessed it - no work from AMC’s. Now I have been hearing rumors that later this year (August ?) FHA may start distributing their work through AMC’s.
It would appear that those people that had a relationship with AMC’s in the past have faired well. I know of one local appraiser that is getting between 15 to 25 jobs a month and others that spend their day reading. Doesn’t sound like it’s being evenly distributed to me !
480 Jeff Oliver // Jun 10, 2009 at 7:26 am
So iwas reading that 54% of appraisers at least some of the time are asked to re-examine a report to potentially adjust the value to make the deal work….that is amazing to me because the AMC I am a part of has never done that once to my knowledge. The only thing we have ever sent back to the appraiser is requests for revision when there is an error. I am shocked that we as appraisers give in to this kind of pressure, knowing you could lose your license over something like that. Nearly 85% of all appraisals are being reviewed according to a friend who works higher up at a bank. So why run the risk. I get that we need the work and are therefore more willing to “bend” the rules to get it, but come on…if anyone loses their license they lose 5, 10, 20 years worth of income!!!
We just kicked one appraiser off our list because they could not be bothered to update our company of a problem getting into the house and therefore the appraisal report was late…we gave this person more than 7 days to complete it. Come on people, you can complain all you want but you also gotta be somewhat flexible with companies who have clients to keep happy also. Some appraisers need to get over the arrogant appraiser attitude and start doing a good job or start losing business!!!
481 Loidene Acworth GA // Jun 3, 2009 at 8:38 am
I have had it with government intervention in the name of helping the appraisers not circum to the pressures from Mortgage lenders. I have run my own business for 7 years. I picked and chose who I worked with in order to keep my license clean. So I could trust who I was working with and they, in turn, could trust me to keep them out of trouble as well. Since the HVCC, I have lost every one of my clients! What happened to Free enterprise?? I believe HCVV is Unconstitutional ! I am being helped right out of the business. What other business in the US is told they can no longer work with, talk to have a relationship with their current clients? I don’t need a mediator to run my business, especailly one that seemingly has no rules of engagement! I am on 20 lists and received 5 appraisals last month with reduced fees!!! Guess I have to get on 100. So why did I go ahead and become certified? I am hoping that FHA never becomes HVCC and I might still have a bit of independence! Take a look at the statistics for the number of appraisers for your state listed on the ASC website. You can get a complete listing of all the appraisers that have been licensed in your state. Of the 12,191 appraisers in GA there are only 4600 +/- who are still active. (Over 600 went out of business last year!) Of those 4600 +/-, there are only 2700 +/- who hold the CR or CG designation! Guess there should be plenty of FHA appraisals if I can survive until October! Let’s tell the oil companies that they need to pay a third party to pass their paperwork through, see how well it works in other professions! No, actually they would just raise gas prices. Shame we don’t have that same opportunity to control our fees!!
482 Lori Davenport // Jun 3, 2009 at 7:48 am
I dont think there is any other job where no longer can you put your name out there, do a great job and expect your good product and service to be good advertising for you. In fact, there is no point to advertise at all. We have no freedom to run our business. We are at the mercy of being picked out of a hat.
I think the issue here is bigger and worse than we can imagine. We have lost all control and have no freedom to be INDEPENDENT FEE APPRAISERS, as the name suggests.
All the work and effort….It is extremely hard to get an appraisers license in this state (CT) with all the classes, finding a supervisory appraiser and actually getting enough assignments for your hours needed (not to mention your split will be ridiculously small now) and now you have to have a college degree and the state exam is very difficult with a very low pass rate.
Who is going to be stupid enough to enter this field now?
But hey, who needs appraisers now anyway? All you gotta do is call a RE agent and get a BPO, because they seem to be just as good as an appraisal these days.
483 John A. Humm // Jun 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm
So, now we are forced to accept fees which are from the 1970’s which are much less than escrow, title and of course, the mgmt. company’s fees. The mantra now is: “Make the appraiser pay for the AMC fee! They are the ones to blame. The lenders can’t pay for THAT… ” Seems fair. On top of that, the borrower is paying more for the appraisals than before this insanity and they are mad at the appraiser for that. Our expenses are from the 21st. century but they want us to work for 20th. century wages. Its an outrage but that’s what you get when you get the government involved in things as they usually make a mess of everything they touch, unless of course its Congress’s salaries. Where was our industry leaders when this insanity was being put together? Probably making more regulations and setting us up for more classes to take. Why should we as an industry accept anything less than full fees and reasonable turn-times. We need fair compensation. We’ve worked hard to get those fees up over the years and to be told to shut up and sit down is wrong. I too have found that the majority of the orders in my area have been going to the big shops. I can’t even get into these AMC sites fast enough to grab an order. I even got a Blackberry to speed up the process only to learn that Blackberrys are on a time delay as is Outlook and Outlook Express. So you’re dead if you try and use these. I questioned my cable provider as I thought someone had to have some kind of an auto-responder but no, the cable company doesn’t offer that type of feature. So the big guys have an in and the rest of us are told: You can’t talk to your old clients, you can’t engage new clients either and you can’t get in to get any orders. Unfortunately, the cure is worse than the disease ever was and its likely to ruin a good many of us honest appraisers before something is done to correct the mess this Obamaination of desolation has caused.
484 Lori Davenport // May 29, 2009 at 6:10 am
By the way, I have signed up for a few, 3 or 4 AMC’s and still have not gotten ANY work from any of them. So how is that possible if they are supposed to rotate appraisers and use them autonomously?
Is it because now instead of the brokers picking up the phone and calling their favorite appraiser, its now the AMC’s that keep using their favorite appraisers based on the lowest fees and willingness to submit to their pressure?
What the hell is the difference other than another layer of greedy hands skimming off our pay?
Only difference is, now I have no work in that arena. Thank god for FHA.
485 30+ yrs & considering leaving the profession // May 29, 2009 at 12:30 am
I just reviewed my first application to work with a large AMC. Am I the only one that has a problem signing their broad and invasive “Authorization For A Background Investigation.”
I understand an AMC’s need for a credit report, a state disciplinary check, a criminal background check, a verification of my education, verification of my experience, and speaking with my past employers or clients but I do NOT understand authorizing an AMC to speak to “any other persons,†or investigate my “mode of living†(what does that mean?), or obtain records that are unamed in the request (they use the term: but is not limited to), or have copies of my medical records. Yes….MY MEDICAL RECORDS.
I am an excellent appraiser. I have 30 plus years of appraisal experience. I have no criminal record, no prior or pending disciplinary actions. I have extensive appraisal education. A couple of designations. I am a participating member of my community and volunteer. I have no existing medical problems and take no medication (I would be okay with a drug test), and I know of no one that would state a negative thing about me (not even my ex) but feel they ask too much of an Independent Contractor.
There is no disclaimer that this information will not be sold, how safe it will be, and the only expiration of this authority is when your relationship with the AMC ends. In fact, in goes on to states that you can be investigated “at any time” AND unless you live in 1 of only 5+/- states that require them to make the investigation available to you, you will never know what is in your file or how many times you are investigated.
I have had two attorneys review this very broad and invasive investigation request. Both advised me not to sign. Please explain to me why you did? I am not saying you are wrong…just explain to me why. Do you feel safe that it will not be misused or somehow not go into some database?
I guess being brought up in the 70’s has made me paranoid about “Big Brother” watching our every move but truly I have nothing to hide. It just feels wrong. It feels like I am slowly giving up some of my precious US citizen’s rights.
486 ken // May 28, 2009 at 10:25 am
I am yet to see one AMC that has decent fees. At least five of them contact my office on a regular basis looking for bids. The fees are never in line with the industry and they want the appraisal back in two days. If you had a decent business with mortgage bankers and brokers the AMC’s just destroyed it. With all the new requirements on residential appraisals it is taking a lot longer to complete each assignment. I am working fifteen hours more each week and lucky to make two thirds the money in past years. Unfortunately we do not have a real national organization that would have paid someone to lobby against the management companies. This business will never be what it was in the past. We are better off finding a side way to supplement our incomes versus hoping for positive changes. Until we have a true voice in the industry we will always be thought of last.
487 Jeff Oliver // May 19, 2009 at 10:19 am
I am guessing Stacker works in an area where that kind of fee will suffice and pay his/her bills. Here in Los Angeles makes $150/appraisal wont even pay my mortgage. Things are way over-priced here, yes I know, but the fact of the matter is if you spend on average 4-6 hours doing an appraisal then you are only being paif $30/hour for your time…that is ridiculous for a professional these days. I see other people going into careers where they make $30-50/hr with no experience or anythign required…I love appraising but we have got to come up with a united voice. I agree completely with Lori Davenport that we are like spoiled kids and I dont think any of us would be complaining if the fees dropped slightly, but getting cut in half is absurd!!!
488 Stacker // May 15, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I have been contacted by one AMC and their offer for a fee has been more than what I normally charge. Told my FHA lender how much more they will charge and he told me they may reconsider using AMC for their FHA.
I don’t see the big deal with AMC. When you do work for an appraisal company like I have been doing for 15 years with a split fee of 50-55% then what the AMC pays seems in line. But now that company has to receive orders from AMC and if their fees are lower than going thru the lender that means my percentage will be even lower. Instead of around $150-180 my cut will drop lower. So the $145 which is mentioned from someone else may be in line. THat means the appraisal fee must be about $290 which is only about $10 less than the normal fee for the URAR. I guess we gotta be glad for what ever it is in this rough economic times. Just be glad we got work even though it isn’t much and we gotta supplement it with something else for now. We have to hope the economy turns around and we all get business again. If not, its not worth renewing license.
489 Lori Davenport // May 15, 2009 at 11:35 am
Interesting….I’d like to see where that goes.
490 Chuck Miller // May 13, 2009 at 11:51 pm
The fee structure would be the minimum with negotiable increases for complexity. We can take on the bully, one voice you’ll hardly hear 10,000 voices you can’t miss. I am writing a draft to send to the ASB and others to see what kind of feed back I get
491 bajou // May 13, 2009 at 9:20 am
After nearly 20 years of appraising, I’m making better money in accounting & bookeeping services, normal work week, far less liability.
AMCs are the appraiser’s pimp.
492 Lori Davenport // May 13, 2009 at 8:40 am
Just came across this…
http://www.petitiononline.com/hvcc/petition.html
We should all sign it, and forward it to others. I’m not sure if it will do any good, but it cant hurt. There are 9,598 signatures as of this post.
493 Lori Davenport // May 13, 2009 at 8:30 am
At first thought, a fee structure sounds terrible and something I didn’t think I would ever consider, but may be worthy of a ponder. Maybe (big maybe) its not such a bad idea, as long as there is a way for us to make changes without too much bureaucratic ado.
But there are too many “what ifs”.
It may work for “standard” appraisals, but what about difficult ones? I can see that it would help to keep AMC’s from access to our pockets, but how would it help otherwise?
Maybe we should all just be subcontractors for the government.
In real estate, the market governs the commission. Appraisers cannot work for commission but if we let the market govern our pay, then we get what we got now. There are too many appraisers willing to work for half of what we are used to, which means we all have to lower our rates (or the quality) to stay competitive. In real estate, if half the agencies lowered their commission rates, the rest would have to follow to stay in the game.
Part of the desire for us to become independent fee appraisers is because we want to work for ourselves, we don’t want to answer to others, we want to set our schedules, our fees and we trust our skills and our competency. We don’t want others telling us what to do. Those are strong qualities, but we also don’t like to stand up for ourselves. We are alike a bunch of spoiled children, we want to play by our own rules, but we still want mommy to fix things when the big bully tries to take over…problem is, in this game there is still the whiny child and the big bully, but no mommy.
Do we need one? Or can we take this bully on, on our own? It remains to be seen. I’m not sure I want to play this game anymore. Life is too short.
I’m not opposed to finding other ways to pay the bills, being multifaceted is a good strategy in this economy. I never liked relying on one source of income.
494 Chuck Miller // May 12, 2009 at 5:35 am
Ms. Davenport, that is exactly my point “All the ASB and the Appraisal Foundation do for us is give us more guidelines to follow.” they govern what we do and how we do it. Get them to mandate a fee structure we can live with.
495 Lori Davenport // May 11, 2009 at 5:59 am
Chuck Miller says: “We as appraisers get the least amount of money for any real estate related transaction, a mandatory service with a hefty chunk of accountability attached. Doesn’t seem quite right does it.”
And that is the reason we are in this predicament. We are on the lowest rung. Money speaks. Are we just patsies in the big game?
I am also a Realtor and I have to say, for all the dues I send to NAR (National Association of Relators) and the local boards as well, in the end, its worth it. They speak for us, watch out for us and lobby for our best interest. Its nice to have a voice in Washington. The lending institution has it….Appraisers dont.
But NAR is on our side. They have fought against the HVCC. They have done more for appraisers than any appraiser association or governing body. All the ASB and the Appraisal Foundation do for us is give us more guidelines to follow.
496 mister d // May 8, 2009 at 9:21 am
I hear everyones complaints and I myself am quite upset about the HVCC as everyone is well aware that it is a truly absurd joke that will accomplish nothing it claims to correct. Following are a couple things I suggest appraisers due to combat this fraud.
First: Create your own AMC. It is quite easy to file corporate papers and the costs are minimal. You can then accept orders from your own AMC. Be sure to follow all the rules within the HVCC. It is simpy a matter of paperwork.
Second: Do not perform work for any other AMC’s period. I personally have only found one out of the 30 that I looked into that I could work with that didnt violate the HVCC rules they claim to adhere to. Over 25% stated they performed pre-comps on their web sites. Not to mention that most of the contracts they offer a retard would know not to sign.
I personally have decided to stay away from mortgae appraisals for the time being as the process to eliminate quality appraisers from the industry is beyond obvious. Jp morgan’s act of filing 2000 complaints with numerous state boards says everything. Most people do not know why they did this and the answer is quite simple. They filed these complaints to remove unwanted quality appraisers from their AMC’s roster. Shortly after filing these complaints they required all of the appraiser on their AMC’s approved list to reapply due to the new HVCC guidelines. One of the first questions on the list was one about compliants filed against you or your cmpany and of course if you have a complaint they would deny you access to their list. Removal of quality appraisers accomplished.
The most amazing thing about the HVCC is that the author MR. Cuomo not only was one of the key players in the demise of fannie and freddie as he destroyed all quality control measures in place while he was the Sec. of HUD. He also was on the board of an AMC named AMCO just prior to becoming Attorney General. Amco was bought out by dwellworks then renamed Valuation Services. This is an obvious attempt to disconnect ties to Mr. Cuomo. He actually had an advisory title. He was their advisor on government regualtions.
If you want to understand Mr. Cuomo and his objectives I highly suggest you search “cuomo hud and fraud” you will need sevearl days to absorb all the facts.
A few more hilarious facts about the HVCC, Fannie and Freddie.
1: The same week the HVCC went into affect fannie and freddie anounced that they will now offer a streamlined refi with no appraisal required. They are claiming concern for making quality ledning decisions while performing loans without appraisals in a time when most markets are decling. Obviously their only interest is protecting the banks principal inetrest. In my opinion they are simply kicking the can down the road.
2: Just yesterday Wells refused to accept an appraisal performed by my AMC and required a review performed by their AMC resdirect. I cant wait to see it as i had 4 sales, within 6 months, within 200 square feet, from the same subdivision. They actually made me provide a 5 comp that bracketed the square footage. Nowhere in the HVCC does it state that the lender can require that you use the AMC that they require. It simply states that an AMC must serve as a firewall. Steering by lenders to utilize service providers they require is in violation of FIRREA, RESPA and Title XI. As a matter of fact it is the fundamental foudation for RESPA. Keep up the good fight and good luck to all of us who were foolish enough to choose this profession.
497 Jeff Oliver // May 7, 2009 at 8:47 am
Chuck Miller…you are absolutely correct. I wish, for my own benefit, that there was standardized pricing!!! Then the quality would be the only thing companies would have to pick their appraisal company by. Also with standardized pricing the lending companies would realize that we are united at least on one small part which would pressure the goverment types to take heed and pay attention when we say there are horrible appraisers out there who need to be dealt with. As it stands right now policing ourselves does no good when they won’t punish these people!!! I think Mr. Miller is onto something. We should begin to communicate this with gov’t and get them to pass some sort of legislation as to minimum fees or some sort of regulated pricing!!!
498 Chuck Miller // May 7, 2009 at 6:11 am
I too agree in part with Bernard and Mr. Oliver that as a whole the appraiser has allowed the industry to dictate and lessen the role of the appraiser. Also I agree the those who commit fraud or grevious errors in judgement should be held accountable and liable for punitive measures. Unions more than likely are logistically impossible under the current structure. I also imagine that every other unionized business sector said those exact same words. The desired end result we all should agree on is business, the right to a reasonable fee for service provided. We as apprasiers get the least amount of money for any real estate related transaction, a mandatory service with a hefty chunk of accountability attached. Doesn’t seem quite right does it. No matter how you do it, one service, bundled services or part of a larger management service the appraiser gets squat. Yes, there are unscrupulous, untrained and sub standard (insert your profession here). Its not just appraisers, each of you appraisers, brokers, reviewers etc. have contributed to the mess and each has applied pressure in some form to make a report conform to a preconception of value wished for etc. Before anybody gets on the higher horse and says not me I will say B.S. It is about cultivation and retention of clientele in short business. I know it and you know it. Granted some go further than others but absolutley no one is innocent. At this point the implementation of HVCC and its directives towards AMC’s is unavoidable. Nobody, myself included has come up with a way to retain what little percentage of the pie we get. For licensed proffesionals that are required to know the various values of a dollar how can we be so stupid to think that rising cost and shrinking fees would be ok, because we are told it will be better? Unified presence, pressure and voice to the Governing body, ASB, USPAP those 2 bodies that govern all appraisal writing need to be persuaded that an implementation of legislation promoting fairness of fees to be paid to the appraiser be consistent with the economic equivilent of the cost of doing and maintaining an appraisal business. Change the laws…Everybody else can tack on what they like over and above our fee. That I beleive is the solution, we get a set fee, starting at $350 with incremental negotiable steps of $100 for complexity. 2-4 family start at 450 with the same negotiations. Pass or fail an order is accompanied by a remitted fee. If I have to be the horse that pulls the cart I want carrots and apples too.
499 Jeff Oliver // May 6, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I completely agree with Bernard…we have done this to ourselves. The sad part is that many people like to complain about things and very few come up with REAL solutions. A union is probably not gonna happen just by the sheer nature of the industry and the fact that the larger money lies in the hands of the AMC’s, which are nothing more than puppets of the big banks. That is why my company has banded together to do concerted marketing, ordering, technology, etc and tried to minimize the admin fees that are necessary to run any good company.
I truly believe and have been saying this for a while now that we ought to start getting angry with the various state governing boards. Here in Calif, they act like their hands are tied. If a person commits fraud, or any other illegal act, they ought to lose license, be fined and jailed!!! Period. Stop trying to play nice guy…the so called watchdogs have ruined the industry by allowing puppy mills, and not prosecuting people when they are caught. Start weeding out the bad appraisers who defile this great career. Think about it, if the bottom 1/3 of bad appraisers were removed from the pool, this would not be an issue because there would be more work for you and me…
500 Chuck Miller // May 5, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Sigh… yes we are a wierd bunch, secret squirrel and morocco mole types, put us all in a room and appraisal stories overcome nascar and women, believe it, actually seen it from the inside. But never the less it is the nature of the business we have all worked so hard to build by that same secrecy. The all important client list has been laid waste to by the stroke of the pen. I’ve read 99 % of these remarks and replies from both appraisers and employees of various AMC’s and other institutions. It is interesting to see the lack of understanding by those who question why a business man or woman would be upset at having their workload increased and fees cut at the same time. My self I still am of the belief that we should be united, our fees be standardized at a reasonable figure that would allow us to succeed rather than merely survive eking out a meager existence. If you look beyond the initial rant each of us have contributed something here. Union, Standard fee, Rotating selection pool and so on. If you put these all together it really might work. I’m sure those on the other side of the fence who stand to lose a little of thier new income might balk but hey welcome to our world. The real question is how do we do it, sucessfully organize to be a unified force and retain some semblance of our independence. any suggestions? I have one lets get the brokers and loan originators who get 6 to 25k per sucessful loan to cut thier fees and meet our full fee right? I mean if it is going to be a symbiotic relationship why would you cut off your nose to spite your face
501 Bernard... // May 5, 2009 at 5:51 am
The AMC’s are good for appraisals who are afraid to grow a business & rather be order takers or told how to run thier business. Appraisers you are small business owners act like it. Why in a million years would you give up your control to an AMC’s. Who the F*** are they to control YOUR salary. What are they doing except answering an e-mail or phone call from the Lender. Real talent, I just took an appraisal order now I will take half your pay & you will say AMC’s there not that bad to work for. WOW, Now, at 40 years old I understand how Hitler came in to power. He didn’t take the power. The people just let him have it.
502 Rick Stillman // May 2, 2009 at 10:11 am
Thanks for the dead on observation Lori. We all deserve what we get because we all cowered and allowed our so called profession to be hijacked. Someone else said they won’t prostitue themselves - well put. As of yesterday, I have lost 90% of my customers - which really hurts because my business more than tripled after the 1004MC form from hell came into the picture. Oh well - have at it boys and girls - fight over the scraps. I won’t miss working 7 days a week, day and night. I might get a real job and have a real life - yeah, a weekend is sounding better all the time… thanks for the experience and knowledge. I hear the train whistle now - time to leave. Good luck and Good riddance.
503 Lori Davenport // May 2, 2009 at 5:55 am
Many of you are saying you work for a decent AMC, but wont give up the name.
Secrecy, afraid of sharing work. Appraisers are a weird bunch. Maybe this is why we have let the lenders, AMC’s, brokers and lawmakers make our decisions for us… because we are afraid. Are we a bunch of greedy, secretive, wimps? Appraisers like to complain and we dont play well with others. By nature we cant band together. We cant even share the name sof the good AMC’s. Come on people, maybe if we helped each other out from the beginning, we would not be in this current situation.
We let this happen. We need some spinal cords and we need to demand respect.
I wont work for beans. And yes, I have less work. But I have a conscious and I wont be used. If we stand up to our belief that our work is worth more, instead of submitting, we might be heard. Im on strike. Wont work without respect.
504 Lee Bell // May 1, 2009 at 1:45 pm
I had the same question as Elana.
If I was a trainee I’d be glad to give up half the fee for mentoring, but my trainee days are long over.
505 Elana Riedel // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:55 pm
So Jeff Oliver, what is the name of your AMC and are you adding to your experienced appraiser panel?
506 Jeff Oliver // Apr 30, 2009 at 7:54 pm
I agree with Southern California Appraisers in that the companies need to simply charge a processing fee to the banks. Our AMC is simply charging a slightly higher fee to the client, then only subtracting a minimal amount so the appraiser is still in most cases getting between $250 to $325 per job. This may be less than what we are all use to getting from $350 to $450 per job, but granted the appraiser does not have to do any marketing or anything to get the job except do good work. I think one of the keys to this whole problem is appraisers deciding not to give into the pressures of doing shotty work even when the fees are lower. As a reviewer for many companies I am seeing really awful reports coming across and it seems to be based on the fees being paid to the appraiser.
507 Susan McMillan // Apr 30, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Chuck Miller and Jeff Oliver suggest interesting possibilities. Form our own union and/or AMC. Let’s bite the bullett and become “co-dependant fee appraisers”
508 noname // Apr 29, 2009 at 11:24 pm
STEVE SOUZA // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I have been approached and work for 3 fairly good AMC’S that pay “reasonable fees†even though they are less than my normal fees I’ve been charging for the past 4 years. I had a Borrower call me about a week ago and wanted to know what his lender was paying me because they were charging him $750.00 for an appraisal and he felt he was getting ripped off for that fee by me. None the less, per privacy I told him I could not discuss that issue with him. He said he knew where I lived and I asked him if he was threatening me. He said take it for what is worth. I filed a police report. Bottom line, the Borrower is thinking we are the one’s getting these fees. Crap, my fee was in the $200’s range. No wonder we are hated huh? Lenders and AMC’S are sticking it to us good and we need to stand up “together†and stop this. I for one will be out of business in 2 years if this continues and can’t say I’ll miss it. Tired of working for minimum wage.
YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM DOING THE APPRAISAL FOR THE $200 RANGE.
509 Jim Smith // Apr 29, 2009 at 7:11 pm
What is the question to this answer? The unholy alliance that exists between those mortgage brokers/loan originators, etc. et al and the appraiser selected (the one most likely to hit the number) must be broken. This can only be done by mandating minimum requirements and then having all qualified applicants placed on an absolute rotating blind panel.
I would love to other(s)’ input!
510 STEVE SOUZA // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I have been approached and work for 3 fairly good AMC’S that pay “reasonable fees” even though they are less than my normal fees I’ve been charging for the past 4 years. I had a Borrower call me about a week ago and wanted to know what his lender was paying me because they were charging him $750.00 for an appraisal and he felt he was getting ripped off for that fee by me. None the less, per privacy I told him I could not discuss that issue with him. He said he knew where I lived and I asked him if he was threatening me. He said take it for what is worth. I filed a police report. Bottom line, the Borrower is thinking we are the one’s getting these fees. Crap, my fee was in the $200’s range. No wonder we are hated huh? Lenders and AMC’S are sticking it to us good and we need to stand up “together” and stop this. I for one will be out of business in 2 years if this continues and can’t say I’ll miss it. Tired of working for minimum wage.
511 Southern Calif Appraisers // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:19 pm
We have 4 Certified General Appraisers in our office that will not work for AMC’s. Our experience with Landsafe and several other AMC’s have been drastic fee cuts, inaccurate payment of fees, accounting nightmares, unreasonable turn times, and constant harassment for the report/status/corrections they want but not required. I agree that appraisers should unite and be a voice to stand for the profession that took years of expense and education to acquire. We are in challenging times but I don’t see the solution as cutting appraisers fees as the solution. It will only prostitute the appraisal process and give the profession a bad name. I believe a real solution can start where the AMC’s charge the lenders who use their services a processing fee. They can figure out the process from the thousands they stand to make with the loan. Makes more sense to us in this senseless world right now.
512 herm // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:14 pm
After 24 years in the business, through the good times and the lean, I’ve had it. My last clients have all gone to using AMC’s. Even the banks and the Credit Unions. My good friend recently took a job that paid $197 for a complex appraisal. Normal fees out this way are $450, plus she couldn’t get a person to speak to who had a reasonable command of the english language at the AMC, …..
Like it’s been said before, when all else fails, blame the appraiser. That’s happened before and behold, once again. We, as the most regulated profession in the country, in turn have little to no power. Letters to politicians and commissions have gone unheard.
A pat on the head, and be off. That is what it feels like.
I really liked working with mortgage brokers and companies. If one pressured me in any way, I simply moved on. At one of these forums it was said that 90% of appraisers had been pressured. That doesn’t mean that 90% of us gave in to that pressure. Only that we had a choice to compromise our ethics, or simply walk away and find a company with integrity. That’s what I have done over and over. My current clients have never asked me to stretch or “create” a value, nor look the other way on an issue. That is why I think the old way worked. We truly were “independent” fee appraisers, and until we are that again, I think the lending institutions are in for an even bigger fall.
Inflated appraisals did not create the problem. Greed of the big institutions did. If the programs did not exist, the stated income loan, aka, lie-ers loans, adjustable rate loans (not all were bad), 100%, 105% and even 125% financing, high LTV,to name a few, were the mark of the fall. Come on. We knew this made no sense, but no one was listening, just as no one is listening now.
But, as I digress…..I understand there is a Canadian AMC that has started doing work in the US. (Not my area yet) That pays full fees, and is said to be a good company. It is called SOLIDIFI. I think that is what it is called. My friend works for Eappraisit, and after 20 years in the business, she is getting out. That is what is happening. Many of the people with the most experience are getting out. I am on the precipice, and figure the next month or so will decide. Best Wishes. Herm from the Pacific Northwest.
513 JP Allen // Apr 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm
In response to Jeff Taylor; maybe in New Mexico a $200 fee is fair. (nice site & I’m sure you do fine work) However, in Illinois it doesn’t pay for the gas. RELS, EAppraise-IT & LSI have rarely been fair & only when work volumes demand it. Does a hierarchy of granting first service to firms with 25 or more appraisers sound fair? I choose not to be a baby sitter & am therefore, penalized by the large AMC’s for remaining a small & focused firm.
514 Jeff Oliver // Apr 29, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I am part of a cooperative of appraisers in Los Angeles running our own AMC. Trying to compete with the national companies is next to impossible, but we are winning with the companies looking for local, good quality, well trained appraisers…that being said some people have a very negative view towards AMC’s and yet don’t seem to have any answers or solutions. I agree with Pam Teel regarding fees. The answer is for everyone to charge what they feel fit and are willing to do work for and let the market sort it out. Our AMC only takes a small fee to pay for our marketing and administration overhead. Nothing like LSI or the other that take 200-250 bucks!!! That is theft, fraud, etc…
515 Jeff Taylor // Apr 29, 2009 at 10:19 am
I do work for lots of AMC’s and have for probably 10 years. The bottom line is that some are good, some are bad, but they are a part of our industry and you better get used to it. I agree that you shouldn’t do work for the ones that pressure for low fees and impossible turn times, but some are just trying to do their jobs like we are. To be honest, Landsafe, RELS and LSI have always been fair to me, paid me adequately and been reasonable on their turn times. I know these are some of the least popular ones, but my experience has been overall positive. I think the biggest travesty is that the government, in their infinite wisdom, is pushing the HVCC as a solution to the mortgage crisis and in reality they are just adding additional fees to the end user (the borrower). I always thought it was a violation of USPAP and other laws to be an unethical appraiser - I didn’t realize we needed more laws. Why can’t we just enforce the laws on the books already instead of confusing and complicating the loan process even more?
516 Bruce Lennick // Apr 29, 2009 at 8:15 am
This is to Bill Jackson, if you want to look and sound professional, try to at least use good grammar and spelling in your statements
517 Jesse Michaels // Apr 27, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Speaking of fees. I received an appraisal request from an AMC, contacted the borrower and she said she had not committed to getting the loan yet. A few days later she called me back and wanted to know why her credit card had an appraisal charge on it in the amount of $385.00, the amount the AMC was willing to pay me for the appraisal was $200.00.
518 Jesse Michaels // Apr 27, 2009 at 7:10 pm
In the Working RE Winter 2009 issue you featured an article written by the owner of an AMC; HVCC/AMCs-Change Equals Opportunity by Paul E. Chandler Founder and CEO of Property Sciences. I am extremely disappointed you printed an article by an individual whose business takes income from appraisers. Having him extol the virtues of AMCs is tantamount to asking Adolph Hitler to explain the benefits of concentration camps to Jews. As I see it, the only entities that benefit from AMCs are AMCs.
519 Chuck Miller // Apr 27, 2009 at 9:10 am
Unionized Appraisers;
I am not the ultimate authority on this stuff nor do I claim to be anything more than a concerned appraiser who is watching the business go haywire. Do I think the the profession should be unionized? maybe, it does have its good and bad points. I just perused the 2008 USPAP for anything on pricing/ fees. It is a big document and it is dry as a bone and maybe I missed it. What I got out of it is there is no particular stance of USPAP other than disclosure of fees, discounts, coupons, tit for tat agreements or as they put it “any event” and is to be disclosed in the transmittal letter or addenda. It does not say that there can be no discussion of fees. It has always been my understanding that somewhere in those documents there is a clause that prohibits appraisers as a group from setting a standard fee. Which is why I did a quick read through (Ethics Management section) of it before I commented. Unions, I have been a member of various unions for 38 years, in that time I have participated in strikes, walkouts, actions, been a shop steward. A union is only as good as the employees representing it to the employer. In other words you can have the best union ever but if those that have been elected by the local work force to be stewards and reps are lame brained, guess what? you will lose. The reverse is also true, strong reps equals strong union. But nothing is ever gained without some type of sacrifice. So be prepared to cease working when somebody has a conflict and the union pulls a stop work tactic to force negotiation. And be prepared to accept a contract negotiated on your behalf whose parameters are for the majority or aim only to gain one or two items in particular at the expense of everything else. (that’s called negotiation) Be prepared to pay dues. My guess is a either a flat fee per appraisal or per month. But it should be noted while all this talk about consolidation and solidarity are good we are dealing ultimately with the Federal Government and as such the feds enjoy one congressional stipulation nobody else does. A no strike, no work slowdown / stoppage clause. Does anybody remember Reagan envoking it during the Air traffic controllers strike? So what then any federal union can do is litigate, protest and throw harsh words. Don’t get me wrong Unions have and continue to do good things and I personally feel that they are a necessity. I should now say that I am a 29 year veteran of Federal employment and have worked for several agencies which does qualify me for at least having some idea what relationship uncle and unions have with each other. The one really good thing that would come from unionization of this profession would be regulated fees which would keep price undercutting and back door deals out of the picture or at least to an acceptable minimum. Secondly they (Unions) would provide a medium by which to resolve issues equitably, Third, Access to legal counsel, representation usually part of the dues process for a limited or prolonged engagement. Fourth, if the body of the union was large enough we could conceivably manage health / dental care. If the union had 20,000 members nationwide it could negotiate affordable health care with the many providers. Fifth, Pensions, IRA’s yup negotiable. What would and should happen is in my opinion we (appraisers) get our fee regardless pass or fail, it keeps us disinterested parties. our fee is managed by an agency federal or private that remits to us or negotiated fee, 350, 450 sfr plus for 2 to 4 and so on , what they collect would be more and of that would be our negotiated benefits. Commercial work is another story, very complex and fee structure varies too much due to scope and work, timing etc. But for residential work AMC’s so on I think if it were unionized it would be good. It could work, might be a little shaky at first and I’m sure there would be resistance to change. I for one like to count my money at the time of service also, but if it meant I had health, pension, etc. I could change that too. Do I have a favorite union in whom I could place my trust? true some are better than others, there are hundreds of things to cinsider when unionizing, best to have counsel on this so all that perticipate are served and when a provider does not work out then provisions other than membership need to be in place to give the bad union the boot. Just food for thought, but for me ,I’m in
520 Rita Bradley // Apr 26, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I don’t think you’ll get too many honest comments here as we’ve already see Pam Crowley get sued for speaking out against E-Appraise-IT (one of the biggest players) for opening signed, PDF’d appraisal reports! $175 a pop appraisers can’t afford to get sued.
521 Hubert Sawyers III // Apr 26, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Hi, I am from DartAppraisal.com - please feel free to e-mail me directly with any complaints you have regarding our organization. We know that the only way we can get better is actually hearing it directly from those that work with us. At the end of the day, we want to be one of the favorable AMCs.
522 Elana Riedel // Apr 25, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I have been appraising for over 25 years. I used to do work for all of the major AMCs several years ago when they were more of a “distribution center” and paid fees similar to non-AMC work. But over the past 10 years, as they have cut their fees, I have gradually let them go. Ocassionally, I will still do the more complicated assignments that they don’t trust the “low fee” appraisers to complete, and they will pay full fee for those. As of last year, I was only doing work for Ocwen (foreclosures) and Appraisal Bank (reviews). Ocwen is nice since they pay quickly by direct deposit. But this year, Ocwen cut their fees and I no longer accept work from them. However, there are obviously enough appraisers willing to do their foreclosure appraisals (including listing comps, repair addendum, and MC addendum) for $275 that they have not felt pressured to raise their prices. This is true for all the AMCs. They are in a business where their primary objective is to make as much money for them as the market (i.e. appraisers) will allow them to make. As long as appraisers are willing to take the fees, they will thrive. If they no longer have the ability to sell their services to the lender (i.e. they no longer have appraisers willing to work for those fees), then they will either have to go out of business or take a smaller percentage of the pie and give a larger piece to the appraiser. It is up to every individual appraiser to decide what they are willing to accept for their product.
523 Lori Davenport // Apr 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I think Colleens point is that this bog is not to complain, there are other blogs for that. This blog is supposed to be too list the good, bad, and the ugly (by name) as far as what AMC’s are worth working for. It is a pain in the derriere to have to sign up for all these companies and then find out your not getting any work or they are too cheap. Again we can help each other out…I don’t have any info yet, cuz I just signed up for a few of them and haven’t gotten any work yet. So I was hoping to get some info here. Oh well.
Besides, dont you think it would affect the AMC’s to see there bad rating here?
524 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I HAVE WRITTEN no less THAN FIVE (5.) RESPONSES ON THIS BLOG. And i JUST read this comment from-
Colleen Patterson // which was posted at- Apr 16, 2009 at 7:18 pm
She said-
“I wish there were top, long term established appraisers contributing their experience and opinions to this survey. As it is, with respect, we are not getting the input we needâ€
I agree that we do need more comments, BUT I must say Collen you must NOT have read any of my comments. I have been in business since 1972, hold a senior designation from the Appraisal Institute, so I think perhaps I may qualify as a “long term established firmâ€
525 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:44 am
The AMC’s seem to have had it so good in the past four (4) years, I feel they have been lulled into a fantasy world, wherein the have begun to consider place themselves as someone who can do no wrong, and their way is the only way..
When I first began to accept AMC work my typical fee was around $275.00. One major AMC was offering $$195.00, which low, was not all that bad, considering that they were somewhat realistic in their expectations. There were times when they would ask us to pick up a Cashiers Check or Money order payable to them for around $470.00, so they were making $275.00 for their part. I was not all that pleased with that BUT at least I was getting a volume of work AND not a lot of “hassleâ€
Beginning in about 2004 they began to ask for MORE and MORE. They wanted:
• Interior photos of EACH room
• Two instead of one street scene
• A photo of the left and right side of the home
• A photo of what the subject faced across the street.
About that time we were told that our fees were higher than others in my area, and suggested that a fee of $175.00 would result in more work.
Then along came the MCS form, and after a long time asking, they did agree to pay $195.00, because of the MCS form.
Bear in mind that the current fee of $195.00 does NOT favorably compares to the same fee in 1998, because cost for about every area of the appraisal business had gone up. A dramatic cost increase was gasoline cost, which had gone from around $1.20 per gallon in early 2002 to over $3.65 per gallon in THE SUMMER OF 2008 that is more than ALMOST triple, and is over $2.45 per gallon more.
If an appraiser drove just 25,000 miles per year in a car that got 25 MPG he/she would consume 1,000 gallons per year. At an INCREASE OF $2.45 PER GALLON, THAT WOULD RESULT IN AN INCREASED COST OF $2,450. I would say THESE numbers are conservative and many appraisers drive much more than 25,000 miles, and many have cars that may only get 18 to 20 miles per gallon. In that case the EXTRA cost of gas would be over $5,400 more.
Just at the time when expenses were increasing, the AMC’ not only demanded more, but lowered fees. There was absolutely NO compassion for the appraiser. And all the below were added:
• Interior photos of EACH room
• Two instead of one street scene
• A photo of the left and right side of the home
• A photo of what the subject faced across the street.
• Then along came the MCS form.
• And the demands for corrections increased. Bear in mind that many times the “corrections†were NOT flaws in the appraisal but many times were a failure of the reviewer to thoroughly read the report.
• Many reviewers began to become very picky and I think must have misinterpreted proper appraisal techniques. (One example is that one reviewer requested another comparable that would “bracket†the room count.) I had NEVER heard of that before. While “bracketing†is nice, there really is NO consensus among appraisers and /or Realtors on how to count rooms.
As time went on the AMC’s became more and more demanding about things such as:
• Turn around times; they demanded reports being tuned in within 24 hours of inspection, without any credit for weekends.
• About the appraiser making contact with the name given on the order. They demanded a call to the contact person within 24 hours.
• The irony of the contact is that in a majority of the orders, the AMC did not have the correct phone number or
• A call to the contact either would not result in a return call, OR the contact number had NO WAY of leaving a message OR was a wrong number.
On many orders we got we could hardly do our appraisal work for having to respond to calls from the client asking:
• Did you get the order?
• Have you called to customer?
Then within a short time another call would come in:
• When is the appointment set?
The day of the appointment would generate ANOTHER call asking,
• Did you see the property? then
• When can we expect the report?
All of these things combined would make it very difficult to get ANY WORK DONE.
526 Day Late Dollar Short // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:39 am
My firm takes orders from no less than a dozen AMC’s and has for the past 5 years. There are good ones and bad. They all pay “less than market” fees. I would say the best overall taking into consideration fee, TAT, and underwriting hassles are LandSafe, Kirchmeyer and TSI. They all pay fair amounts, increased their fees for the 1004mc and give ample time to complete assignments without hassle (as long as they are updated).
There are more bad AMC’s than good however I will not name the worst other than to say they are the ones that were involved with the mess that started the HVCC in the first place.
As far as boycotting AMC’s in hopes that fees will go up I do not believe there will ever be a unified front large enough to make this happen. There will always be someone that will do it for less.
Take what you can and turn the rest back to the sharks.
527 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 10:26 am
I think that many AMC’s had best WAKE UP. In the past two weeks, with the MCS required, many have bit raised their fees at all. I am beginning to see some AMC’s who WILL pay more than others, so what I am now doing is to begin to “pick and Chooseâ€. Those assignments that are close to my office I accept. Others that are far away or appear to be difficult I turn down. Hence I think the AMC’s are going to have difficulty having enough appraisers to meet some of their unreasonable demands.
Having a PROFESSIONAL designation from a TOP organization, I always try to do a thorough job, regardless of fee. Therefore now I am turning distant or difficult appraisal work down. The “HALF TRAINED†bozos take that work.
I feel like the scrutiny I approach each assignment with results in less risk for the lender. What happens I fear is that those “half trained appraisers know so little about the affects on value that they do not realize just HOW little they do NOT know. I suspect (and indeed in doing field reviews, that they DO miss a lot of things. This is a major factor in the mortgage loan crisis.
528 Pam Teel // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:13 am
I would welcome input on AMC’s that you have had success with. We currently do business with LSI Relocation and Landsafe.
529 Pam Teel // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:11 am
Hello from South Texas. Our firm has been in the business since 1986 and have seen these threats come and go and come again. When you have a reliable AMC that is willing to be a fair and reasonable fee, the relationship can work very well, from my perspective. But, I agree. I have the right to charge what I see fit to charge, not what anyone else (including a national AMC) says I should charge. I have and will continue to turn down work based upon low fees.
530 Sharon // Apr 16, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I’ve seen on the appraiserforum that they are trying to get everyone working for AMC’s to turn all the work down for a two week period once this all starts. I think it sounds like a great idea, especially since I typically turn them down anyways…I would love to see appraisers stand up for themselves for once.
I will tell you I “requested” to raise my fees with RELS (I’ve probably done 5 reports for them in the past 2 years). They “denied” my request. I called them and told them that I could charge anything I wanted to charge and that I was going to turn them in for price fixing. I told them they didn’t have to pay my fee, but I could change it whenever I wanted to. Guess what, they called back and said they would be glad to change my fee…raised it to what I asked for…haven’t heard from them since then…HA HA I am really going to be relying on my bank work come May 1st.
If EVERYONE would refuse to do appraisals for these tiny fees then EVERYONE would benefit in the long run.
531 Appraiser // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Illinois just passed a lwa appraiser must put fee in report not just an invoice, the AMC are made calling sending Emails demanding appraisers take out thier fee, why? what do they have to hide? I know that one tells the homeowner the fee they charge and the appraisers fee is all one.
I love the new law , I have nothing to hide.
532 Colleen Patterson // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:18 pm
I wish there were top, long term established appraisers contributing their experience and opinions to this survey. As it is, with respect, we are not getting the input we need.
533 Bill Jackson // Apr 16, 2009 at 10:44 am
I think that many AMC’s had best WAKE UP. In the past two weeks, with the MCS required, many have bit raised their fees at all. I am beginning to see some AMC’s who WILL pay more than others, so what i am now doing is to begin to “pick and Choose”. those assignments that are close to my ofice i accept. ithers that are far away or appear to be difficult i turn down. hence i think the AMC’s are going to have dificulty having enough appraisers to meet some of their unreasonable demands.
Having a PROFESSIONL designation from a TOP organisation, i always try to do a thorough job, regardless of fee. therefore now i am turning distant or difficult appraisal work down. the “HALF TRAINED” bozos take that work.
i feel like the scrutiny i approach each asignment with results in less risk for the lender. What happens i fear is that those “half trained appraisers know so little about the affects on value that they do not realize just HOW little they do NOT know. i suspect (and indeed in doing field reviews, that they DO miss a lot of things. This is a major factor in the mortgage loan crisis.
534 Average Joe // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:38 am
I have been working with one AMC, and this is what I’ve experienced. An increasingly automated ordering process where orders are broadcast to all appraiser’s covering the area of the subject. Some preferred appraiser’s receive the order first and have the first chance to accept. This is usually one or two appraisers. This can be 15-30 minutes before it is broadcast to the rest of the average Joes; which can be 15 to 20 appraisers where I work. Good luck if you are not a preferred appraiser because you have about 30 seconds to click on the link before it is snatched up. Kind of like playing a slot machine. Most of the time you receive a message that the assignment has already been accepted by someone else. So, if that is happening already, good luck once everyone has to deal with them. Keep in mind this is for an average fee of $200 for a URAR with a 1004mc. If you make more than a few mistakes, or turn in a report late, forget about becoming a preferred appraiser. You have to be cheap, fast, and good to compete. It looks like Jennifer is trying to find some appraiser’s to work for her AMC for $145.00. Sad thing is that she will probably find someone.
Bueno Suerte.
535 Just Maybe // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:33 pm
ANSWER - AN AMC
536 Just Maybe // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Who is Jennifer James ?
537 Jim Gibson // Apr 15, 2009 at 4:04 pm
If you are excepting low fees with quick turnaround times you only have yourself to blame, I have actually been called by an AMC and asked to do appraisal for $170.00 which I refused. This is a profession, have some respect for yourself and your colleagues. It took time and effort to become an appraiser don’t sell out, if you do it will only get worse.
Jim Gibson
538 Irate Appraiser // Apr 15, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I have worked for several AMC’s and for the most part they are OK, low paying but OK. I have worked in the past for a company which is headquartered in Toledo, OH. This company offers its clients a very low fee and pays it appraisers next to nothing (ie: 1004 = $100; 2055=$72.00; 2000 review $90.00, etc) and all of this is with a 24 hour turn around time!! It also charges the appraisers a 15% penalty if the report is late or if it needs corrections - no matter how small! Needless to say I do not work for them anymore!! Has anybody else had similar experiences?
539 Jennifer James // Apr 15, 2009 at 10:02 am
I’ve worked with many AMC’s and never seen the extremely low fees some are stating, ie $145…who are these???
540 Bill Jackson // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:34 am
end for now
541 Bill Jackson // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:32 am
I hope that the “tide is finally beginning to turn” for appraisers and dealing with AMC’s. I began doing work for them about 11 years ago, and while there WERE some downsides, thre also were some upsides. i.e 1. volume, 2),a certain degree of comfort in getting paid, 3, somehat automated, 4. fees although LOW were sinewhat reasonable, 5.).call backs were few, and for the most part legitimate questions.
That has all now changed, i will have to address moore comments in another Blog,response
Now that has ALL changed.
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