As suggested by readers, this space is designated for appraisers to comment on their experiences with AMCs that they have worked with. Whether it’s a major or private AMC, a good experience or bad, please share with your fellow appraisers. Include fee expectations, turn time expectations, unusual requests, flow of business, reporting requirements, ease of technology platform, payment and pressure issues or any other criteria. This is intended as a free exchange of information to help appraisers make informative decisions about the AMCs they work with. Please keep all comments constructive, factual and fair.
Please note that Working RE and OREP do not substantiate or verify any of the comments posted here.
156 responses so far ↓
1 Bill Jackson // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:32 am
I hope that the “tide is finally beginning to turn” for appraisers and dealing with AMC’s. I began doing work for them about 11 years ago, and while there WERE some downsides, thre also were some upsides. i.e 1. volume, 2),a certain degree of comfort in getting paid, 3, somehat automated, 4. fees although LOW were sinewhat reasonable, 5.).call backs were few, and for the most part legitimate questions.
That has all now changed, i will have to address moore comments in another Blog,response
Now that has ALL changed.
2 Bill Jackson // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:34 am
end for now
3 Jennifer James // Apr 15, 2009 at 10:02 am
I’ve worked with many AMC’s and never seen the extremely low fees some are stating, ie $145…who are these???
4 Irate Appraiser // Apr 15, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I have worked for several AMC’s and for the most part they are OK, low paying but OK. I have worked in the past for a company which is headquartered in Toledo, OH. This company offers its clients a very low fee and pays it appraisers next to nothing (ie: 1004 = $100; 2055=$72.00; 2000 review $90.00, etc) and all of this is with a 24 hour turn around time!! It also charges the appraisers a 15% penalty if the report is late or if it needs corrections - no matter how small! Needless to say I do not work for them anymore!! Has anybody else had similar experiences?
5 Jim Gibson // Apr 15, 2009 at 4:04 pm
If you are excepting low fees with quick turnaround times you only have yourself to blame, I have actually been called by an AMC and asked to do appraisal for $170.00 which I refused. This is a profession, have some respect for yourself and your colleagues. It took time and effort to become an appraiser don’t sell out, if you do it will only get worse.
Jim Gibson
6 Just Maybe // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Who is Jennifer James ?
7 Just Maybe // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:33 pm
ANSWER - AN AMC
8 Average Joe // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:38 am
I have been working with one AMC, and this is what I’ve experienced. An increasingly automated ordering process where orders are broadcast to all appraiser’s covering the area of the subject. Some preferred appraiser’s receive the order first and have the first chance to accept. This is usually one or two appraisers. This can be 15-30 minutes before it is broadcast to the rest of the average Joes; which can be 15 to 20 appraisers where I work. Good luck if you are not a preferred appraiser because you have about 30 seconds to click on the link before it is snatched up. Kind of like playing a slot machine. Most of the time you receive a message that the assignment has already been accepted by someone else. So, if that is happening already, good luck once everyone has to deal with them. Keep in mind this is for an average fee of $200 for a URAR with a 1004mc. If you make more than a few mistakes, or turn in a report late, forget about becoming a preferred appraiser. You have to be cheap, fast, and good to compete. It looks like Jennifer is trying to find some appraiser’s to work for her AMC for $145.00. Sad thing is that she will probably find someone.
Bueno Suerte.
9 Bill Jackson // Apr 16, 2009 at 10:44 am
I think that many AMC’s had best WAKE UP. In the past two weeks, with the MCS required, many have bit raised their fees at all. I am beginning to see some AMC’s who WILL pay more than others, so what i am now doing is to begin to “pick and Choose”. those assignments that are close to my ofice i accept. ithers that are far away or appear to be difficult i turn down. hence i think the AMC’s are going to have dificulty having enough appraisers to meet some of their unreasonable demands.
Having a PROFESSIONL designation from a TOP organisation, i always try to do a thorough job, regardless of fee. therefore now i am turning distant or difficult appraisal work down. the “HALF TRAINED” bozos take that work.
i feel like the scrutiny i approach each asignment with results in less risk for the lender. What happens i fear is that those “half trained appraisers know so little about the affects on value that they do not realize just HOW little they do NOT know. i suspect (and indeed in doing field reviews, that they DO miss a lot of things. This is a major factor in the mortgage loan crisis.
10 Colleen Patterson // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:18 pm
I wish there were top, long term established appraisers contributing their experience and opinions to this survey. As it is, with respect, we are not getting the input we need.
11 Appraiser // Apr 16, 2009 at 7:50 pm
Illinois just passed a lwa appraiser must put fee in report not just an invoice, the AMC are made calling sending Emails demanding appraisers take out thier fee, why? what do they have to hide? I know that one tells the homeowner the fee they charge and the appraisers fee is all one.
I love the new law , I have nothing to hide.
12 Sharon // Apr 16, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I’ve seen on the appraiserforum that they are trying to get everyone working for AMC’s to turn all the work down for a two week period once this all starts. I think it sounds like a great idea, especially since I typically turn them down anyways…I would love to see appraisers stand up for themselves for once.
I will tell you I “requested” to raise my fees with RELS (I’ve probably done 5 reports for them in the past 2 years). They “denied” my request. I called them and told them that I could charge anything I wanted to charge and that I was going to turn them in for price fixing. I told them they didn’t have to pay my fee, but I could change it whenever I wanted to. Guess what, they called back and said they would be glad to change my fee…raised it to what I asked for…haven’t heard from them since then…HA HA I am really going to be relying on my bank work come May 1st.
If EVERYONE would refuse to do appraisals for these tiny fees then EVERYONE would benefit in the long run.
13 Pam Teel // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:11 am
Hello from South Texas. Our firm has been in the business since 1986 and have seen these threats come and go and come again. When you have a reliable AMC that is willing to be a fair and reasonable fee, the relationship can work very well, from my perspective. But, I agree. I have the right to charge what I see fit to charge, not what anyone else (including a national AMC) says I should charge. I have and will continue to turn down work based upon low fees.
14 Pam Teel // Apr 17, 2009 at 8:13 am
I would welcome input on AMC’s that you have had success with. We currently do business with LSI Relocation and Landsafe.
15 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 10:26 am
I think that many AMC’s had best WAKE UP. In the past two weeks, with the MCS required, many have bit raised their fees at all. I am beginning to see some AMC’s who WILL pay more than others, so what I am now doing is to begin to “pick and Chooseâ€. Those assignments that are close to my office I accept. Others that are far away or appear to be difficult I turn down. Hence I think the AMC’s are going to have difficulty having enough appraisers to meet some of their unreasonable demands.
Having a PROFESSIONAL designation from a TOP organization, I always try to do a thorough job, regardless of fee. Therefore now I am turning distant or difficult appraisal work down. The “HALF TRAINED†bozos take that work.
I feel like the scrutiny I approach each assignment with results in less risk for the lender. What happens I fear is that those “half trained appraisers know so little about the affects on value that they do not realize just HOW little they do NOT know. I suspect (and indeed in doing field reviews, that they DO miss a lot of things. This is a major factor in the mortgage loan crisis.
16 Day Late Dollar Short // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:39 am
My firm takes orders from no less than a dozen AMC’s and has for the past 5 years. There are good ones and bad. They all pay “less than market” fees. I would say the best overall taking into consideration fee, TAT, and underwriting hassles are LandSafe, Kirchmeyer and TSI. They all pay fair amounts, increased their fees for the 1004mc and give ample time to complete assignments without hassle (as long as they are updated).
There are more bad AMC’s than good however I will not name the worst other than to say they are the ones that were involved with the mess that started the HVCC in the first place.
As far as boycotting AMC’s in hopes that fees will go up I do not believe there will ever be a unified front large enough to make this happen. There will always be someone that will do it for less.
Take what you can and turn the rest back to the sharks.
17 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 11:44 am
The AMC’s seem to have had it so good in the past four (4) years, I feel they have been lulled into a fantasy world, wherein the have begun to consider place themselves as someone who can do no wrong, and their way is the only way..
When I first began to accept AMC work my typical fee was around $275.00. One major AMC was offering $$195.00, which low, was not all that bad, considering that they were somewhat realistic in their expectations. There were times when they would ask us to pick up a Cashiers Check or Money order payable to them for around $470.00, so they were making $275.00 for their part. I was not all that pleased with that BUT at least I was getting a volume of work AND not a lot of “hassleâ€
Beginning in about 2004 they began to ask for MORE and MORE. They wanted:
• Interior photos of EACH room
• Two instead of one street scene
• A photo of the left and right side of the home
• A photo of what the subject faced across the street.
About that time we were told that our fees were higher than others in my area, and suggested that a fee of $175.00 would result in more work.
Then along came the MCS form, and after a long time asking, they did agree to pay $195.00, because of the MCS form.
Bear in mind that the current fee of $195.00 does NOT favorably compares to the same fee in 1998, because cost for about every area of the appraisal business had gone up. A dramatic cost increase was gasoline cost, which had gone from around $1.20 per gallon in early 2002 to over $3.65 per gallon in THE SUMMER OF 2008 that is more than ALMOST triple, and is over $2.45 per gallon more.
If an appraiser drove just 25,000 miles per year in a car that got 25 MPG he/she would consume 1,000 gallons per year. At an INCREASE OF $2.45 PER GALLON, THAT WOULD RESULT IN AN INCREASED COST OF $2,450. I would say THESE numbers are conservative and many appraisers drive much more than 25,000 miles, and many have cars that may only get 18 to 20 miles per gallon. In that case the EXTRA cost of gas would be over $5,400 more.
Just at the time when expenses were increasing, the AMC’ not only demanded more, but lowered fees. There was absolutely NO compassion for the appraiser. And all the below were added:
• Interior photos of EACH room
• Two instead of one street scene
• A photo of the left and right side of the home
• A photo of what the subject faced across the street.
• Then along came the MCS form.
• And the demands for corrections increased. Bear in mind that many times the “corrections†were NOT flaws in the appraisal but many times were a failure of the reviewer to thoroughly read the report.
• Many reviewers began to become very picky and I think must have misinterpreted proper appraisal techniques. (One example is that one reviewer requested another comparable that would “bracket†the room count.) I had NEVER heard of that before. While “bracketing†is nice, there really is NO consensus among appraisers and /or Realtors on how to count rooms.
As time went on the AMC’s became more and more demanding about things such as:
• Turn around times; they demanded reports being tuned in within 24 hours of inspection, without any credit for weekends.
• About the appraiser making contact with the name given on the order. They demanded a call to the contact person within 24 hours.
• The irony of the contact is that in a majority of the orders, the AMC did not have the correct phone number or
• A call to the contact either would not result in a return call, OR the contact number had NO WAY of leaving a message OR was a wrong number.
On many orders we got we could hardly do our appraisal work for having to respond to calls from the client asking:
• Did you get the order?
• Have you called to customer?
Then within a short time another call would come in:
• When is the appointment set?
The day of the appointment would generate ANOTHER call asking,
• Did you see the property? then
• When can we expect the report?
All of these things combined would make it very difficult to get ANY WORK DONE.
18 Bill Jackson // Apr 17, 2009 at 12:18 pm
I HAVE WRITTEN no less THAN FIVE (5.) RESPONSES ON THIS BLOG. And i JUST read this comment from-
Colleen Patterson // which was posted at- Apr 16, 2009 at 7:18 pm
She said-
“I wish there were top, long term established appraisers contributing their experience and opinions to this survey. As it is, with respect, we are not getting the input we needâ€
I agree that we do need more comments, BUT I must say Collen you must NOT have read any of my comments. I have been in business since 1972, hold a senior designation from the Appraisal Institute, so I think perhaps I may qualify as a “long term established firmâ€
19 Lori Davenport // Apr 21, 2009 at 3:37 pm
I think Colleens point is that this bog is not to complain, there are other blogs for that. This blog is supposed to be too list the good, bad, and the ugly (by name) as far as what AMC’s are worth working for. It is a pain in the derriere to have to sign up for all these companies and then find out your not getting any work or they are too cheap. Again we can help each other out…I don’t have any info yet, cuz I just signed up for a few of them and haven’t gotten any work yet. So I was hoping to get some info here. Oh well.
Besides, dont you think it would affect the AMC’s to see there bad rating here?
20 Elana Riedel // Apr 25, 2009 at 4:12 pm
I have been appraising for over 25 years. I used to do work for all of the major AMCs several years ago when they were more of a “distribution center” and paid fees similar to non-AMC work. But over the past 10 years, as they have cut their fees, I have gradually let them go. Ocassionally, I will still do the more complicated assignments that they don’t trust the “low fee” appraisers to complete, and they will pay full fee for those. As of last year, I was only doing work for Ocwen (foreclosures) and Appraisal Bank (reviews). Ocwen is nice since they pay quickly by direct deposit. But this year, Ocwen cut their fees and I no longer accept work from them. However, there are obviously enough appraisers willing to do their foreclosure appraisals (including listing comps, repair addendum, and MC addendum) for $275 that they have not felt pressured to raise their prices. This is true for all the AMCs. They are in a business where their primary objective is to make as much money for them as the market (i.e. appraisers) will allow them to make. As long as appraisers are willing to take the fees, they will thrive. If they no longer have the ability to sell their services to the lender (i.e. they no longer have appraisers willing to work for those fees), then they will either have to go out of business or take a smaller percentage of the pie and give a larger piece to the appraiser. It is up to every individual appraiser to decide what they are willing to accept for their product.
21 Hubert Sawyers III // Apr 26, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Hi, I am from DartAppraisal.com - please feel free to e-mail me directly with any complaints you have regarding our organization. We know that the only way we can get better is actually hearing it directly from those that work with us. At the end of the day, we want to be one of the favorable AMCs.
22 Rita Bradley // Apr 26, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I don’t think you’ll get too many honest comments here as we’ve already see Pam Crowley get sued for speaking out against E-Appraise-IT (one of the biggest players) for opening signed, PDF’d appraisal reports! $175 a pop appraisers can’t afford to get sued.
23 Chuck Miller // Apr 27, 2009 at 9:10 am
Unionized Appraisers;
I am not the ultimate authority on this stuff nor do I claim to be anything more than a concerned appraiser who is watching the business go haywire. Do I think the the profession should be unionized? maybe, it does have its good and bad points. I just perused the 2008 USPAP for anything on pricing/ fees. It is a big document and it is dry as a bone and maybe I missed it. What I got out of it is there is no particular stance of USPAP other than disclosure of fees, discounts, coupons, tit for tat agreements or as they put it “any event” and is to be disclosed in the transmittal letter or addenda. It does not say that there can be no discussion of fees. It has always been my understanding that somewhere in those documents there is a clause that prohibits appraisers as a group from setting a standard fee. Which is why I did a quick read through (Ethics Management section) of it before I commented. Unions, I have been a member of various unions for 38 years, in that time I have participated in strikes, walkouts, actions, been a shop steward. A union is only as good as the employees representing it to the employer. In other words you can have the best union ever but if those that have been elected by the local work force to be stewards and reps are lame brained, guess what? you will lose. The reverse is also true, strong reps equals strong union. But nothing is ever gained without some type of sacrifice. So be prepared to cease working when somebody has a conflict and the union pulls a stop work tactic to force negotiation. And be prepared to accept a contract negotiated on your behalf whose parameters are for the majority or aim only to gain one or two items in particular at the expense of everything else. (that’s called negotiation) Be prepared to pay dues. My guess is a either a flat fee per appraisal or per month. But it should be noted while all this talk about consolidation and solidarity are good we are dealing ultimately with the Federal Government and as such the feds enjoy one congressional stipulation nobody else does. A no strike, no work slowdown / stoppage clause. Does anybody remember Reagan envoking it during the Air traffic controllers strike? So what then any federal union can do is litigate, protest and throw harsh words. Don’t get me wrong Unions have and continue to do good things and I personally feel that they are a necessity. I should now say that I am a 29 year veteran of Federal employment and have worked for several agencies which does qualify me for at least having some idea what relationship uncle and unions have with each other. The one really good thing that would come from unionization of this profession would be regulated fees which would keep price undercutting and back door deals out of the picture or at least to an acceptable minimum. Secondly they (Unions) would provide a medium by which to resolve issues equitably, Third, Access to legal counsel, representation usually part of the dues process for a limited or prolonged engagement. Fourth, if the body of the union was large enough we could conceivably manage health / dental care. If the union had 20,000 members nationwide it could negotiate affordable health care with the many providers. Fifth, Pensions, IRA’s yup negotiable. What would and should happen is in my opinion we (appraisers) get our fee regardless pass or fail, it keeps us disinterested parties. our fee is managed by an agency federal or private that remits to us or negotiated fee, 350, 450 sfr plus for 2 to 4 and so on , what they collect would be more and of that would be our negotiated benefits. Commercial work is another story, very complex and fee structure varies too much due to scope and work, timing etc. But for residential work AMC’s so on I think if it were unionized it would be good. It could work, might be a little shaky at first and I’m sure there would be resistance to change. I for one like to count my money at the time of service also, but if it meant I had health, pension, etc. I could change that too. Do I have a favorite union in whom I could place my trust? true some are better than others, there are hundreds of things to cinsider when unionizing, best to have counsel on this so all that perticipate are served and when a provider does not work out then provisions other than membership need to be in place to give the bad union the boot. Just food for thought, but for me ,I’m in
24 Jesse Michaels // Apr 27, 2009 at 7:10 pm
In the Working RE Winter 2009 issue you featured an article written by the owner of an AMC; HVCC/AMCs-Change Equals Opportunity by Paul E. Chandler Founder and CEO of Property Sciences. I am extremely disappointed you printed an article by an individual whose business takes income from appraisers. Having him extol the virtues of AMCs is tantamount to asking Adolph Hitler to explain the benefits of concentration camps to Jews. As I see it, the only entities that benefit from AMCs are AMCs.
25 Jesse Michaels // Apr 27, 2009 at 7:30 pm
Speaking of fees. I received an appraisal request from an AMC, contacted the borrower and she said she had not committed to getting the loan yet. A few days later she called me back and wanted to know why her credit card had an appraisal charge on it in the amount of $385.00, the amount the AMC was willing to pay me for the appraisal was $200.00.
26 Bruce Lennick // Apr 29, 2009 at 8:15 am
This is to Bill Jackson, if you want to look and sound professional, try to at least use good grammar and spelling in your statements
27 Jeff Taylor // Apr 29, 2009 at 10:19 am
I do work for lots of AMC’s and have for probably 10 years. The bottom line is that some are good, some are bad, but they are a part of our industry and you better get used to it. I agree that you shouldn’t do work for the ones that pressure for low fees and impossible turn times, but some are just trying to do their jobs like we are. To be honest, Landsafe, RELS and LSI have always been fair to me, paid me adequately and been reasonable on their turn times. I know these are some of the least popular ones, but my experience has been overall positive. I think the biggest travesty is that the government, in their infinite wisdom, is pushing the HVCC as a solution to the mortgage crisis and in reality they are just adding additional fees to the end user (the borrower). I always thought it was a violation of USPAP and other laws to be an unethical appraiser - I didn’t realize we needed more laws. Why can’t we just enforce the laws on the books already instead of confusing and complicating the loan process even more?
28 Jeff Oliver // Apr 29, 2009 at 12:12 pm
I am part of a cooperative of appraisers in Los Angeles running our own AMC. Trying to compete with the national companies is next to impossible, but we are winning with the companies looking for local, good quality, well trained appraisers…that being said some people have a very negative view towards AMC’s and yet don’t seem to have any answers or solutions. I agree with Pam Teel regarding fees. The answer is for everyone to charge what they feel fit and are willing to do work for and let the market sort it out. Our AMC only takes a small fee to pay for our marketing and administration overhead. Nothing like LSI or the other that take 200-250 bucks!!! That is theft, fraud, etc…
29 JP Allen // Apr 29, 2009 at 12:57 pm
In response to Jeff Taylor; maybe in New Mexico a $200 fee is fair. (nice site & I’m sure you do fine work) However, in Illinois it doesn’t pay for the gas. RELS, EAppraise-IT & LSI have rarely been fair & only when work volumes demand it. Does a hierarchy of granting first service to firms with 25 or more appraisers sound fair? I choose not to be a baby sitter & am therefore, penalized by the large AMC’s for remaining a small & focused firm.
30 herm // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:14 pm
After 24 years in the business, through the good times and the lean, I’ve had it. My last clients have all gone to using AMC’s. Even the banks and the Credit Unions. My good friend recently took a job that paid $197 for a complex appraisal. Normal fees out this way are $450, plus she couldn’t get a person to speak to who had a reasonable command of the english language at the AMC, …..
Like it’s been said before, when all else fails, blame the appraiser. That’s happened before and behold, once again. We, as the most regulated profession in the country, in turn have little to no power. Letters to politicians and commissions have gone unheard.
A pat on the head, and be off. That is what it feels like.
I really liked working with mortgage brokers and companies. If one pressured me in any way, I simply moved on. At one of these forums it was said that 90% of appraisers had been pressured. That doesn’t mean that 90% of us gave in to that pressure. Only that we had a choice to compromise our ethics, or simply walk away and find a company with integrity. That’s what I have done over and over. My current clients have never asked me to stretch or “create” a value, nor look the other way on an issue. That is why I think the old way worked. We truly were “independent” fee appraisers, and until we are that again, I think the lending institutions are in for an even bigger fall.
Inflated appraisals did not create the problem. Greed of the big institutions did. If the programs did not exist, the stated income loan, aka, lie-ers loans, adjustable rate loans (not all were bad), 100%, 105% and even 125% financing, high LTV,to name a few, were the mark of the fall. Come on. We knew this made no sense, but no one was listening, just as no one is listening now.
But, as I digress…..I understand there is a Canadian AMC that has started doing work in the US. (Not my area yet) That pays full fees, and is said to be a good company. It is called SOLIDIFI. I think that is what it is called. My friend works for Eappraisit, and after 20 years in the business, she is getting out. That is what is happening. Many of the people with the most experience are getting out. I am on the precipice, and figure the next month or so will decide. Best Wishes. Herm from the Pacific Northwest.
31 Southern Calif Appraisers // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:19 pm
We have 4 Certified General Appraisers in our office that will not work for AMC’s. Our experience with Landsafe and several other AMC’s have been drastic fee cuts, inaccurate payment of fees, accounting nightmares, unreasonable turn times, and constant harassment for the report/status/corrections they want but not required. I agree that appraisers should unite and be a voice to stand for the profession that took years of expense and education to acquire. We are in challenging times but I don’t see the solution as cutting appraisers fees as the solution. It will only prostitute the appraisal process and give the profession a bad name. I believe a real solution can start where the AMC’s charge the lenders who use their services a processing fee. They can figure out the process from the thousands they stand to make with the loan. Makes more sense to us in this senseless world right now.
32 STEVE SOUZA // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I have been approached and work for 3 fairly good AMC’S that pay “reasonable fees” even though they are less than my normal fees I’ve been charging for the past 4 years. I had a Borrower call me about a week ago and wanted to know what his lender was paying me because they were charging him $750.00 for an appraisal and he felt he was getting ripped off for that fee by me. None the less, per privacy I told him I could not discuss that issue with him. He said he knew where I lived and I asked him if he was threatening me. He said take it for what is worth. I filed a police report. Bottom line, the Borrower is thinking we are the one’s getting these fees. Crap, my fee was in the $200’s range. No wonder we are hated huh? Lenders and AMC’S are sticking it to us good and we need to stand up “together” and stop this. I for one will be out of business in 2 years if this continues and can’t say I’ll miss it. Tired of working for minimum wage.
33 Jim Smith // Apr 29, 2009 at 7:11 pm
What is the question to this answer? The unholy alliance that exists between those mortgage brokers/loan originators, etc. et al and the appraiser selected (the one most likely to hit the number) must be broken. This can only be done by mandating minimum requirements and then having all qualified applicants placed on an absolute rotating blind panel.
I would love to other(s)’ input!
34 noname // Apr 29, 2009 at 11:24 pm
STEVE SOUZA // Apr 29, 2009 at 5:54 pm
I have been approached and work for 3 fairly good AMC’S that pay “reasonable fees†even though they are less than my normal fees I’ve been charging for the past 4 years. I had a Borrower call me about a week ago and wanted to know what his lender was paying me because they were charging him $750.00 for an appraisal and he felt he was getting ripped off for that fee by me. None the less, per privacy I told him I could not discuss that issue with him. He said he knew where I lived and I asked him if he was threatening me. He said take it for what is worth. I filed a police report. Bottom line, the Borrower is thinking we are the one’s getting these fees. Crap, my fee was in the $200’s range. No wonder we are hated huh? Lenders and AMC’S are sticking it to us good and we need to stand up “together†and stop this. I for one will be out of business in 2 years if this continues and can’t say I’ll miss it. Tired of working for minimum wage.
YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM DOING THE APPRAISAL FOR THE $200 RANGE.
35 Susan McMillan // Apr 30, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Chuck Miller and Jeff Oliver suggest interesting possibilities. Form our own union and/or AMC. Let’s bite the bullett and become “co-dependant fee appraisers”
36 Jeff Oliver // Apr 30, 2009 at 7:54 pm
I agree with Southern California Appraisers in that the companies need to simply charge a processing fee to the banks. Our AMC is simply charging a slightly higher fee to the client, then only subtracting a minimal amount so the appraiser is still in most cases getting between $250 to $325 per job. This may be less than what we are all use to getting from $350 to $450 per job, but granted the appraiser does not have to do any marketing or anything to get the job except do good work. I think one of the keys to this whole problem is appraisers deciding not to give into the pressures of doing shotty work even when the fees are lower. As a reviewer for many companies I am seeing really awful reports coming across and it seems to be based on the fees being paid to the appraiser.
37 Elana Riedel // Apr 30, 2009 at 10:55 pm
So Jeff Oliver, what is the name of your AMC and are you adding to your experienced appraiser panel?
38 Lee Bell // May 1, 2009 at 1:45 pm
I had the same question as Elana.
If I was a trainee I’d be glad to give up half the fee for mentoring, but my trainee days are long over.
39 Lori Davenport // May 2, 2009 at 5:55 am
Many of you are saying you work for a decent AMC, but wont give up the name.
Secrecy, afraid of sharing work. Appraisers are a weird bunch. Maybe this is why we have let the lenders, AMC’s, brokers and lawmakers make our decisions for us… because we are afraid. Are we a bunch of greedy, secretive, wimps? Appraisers like to complain and we dont play well with others. By nature we cant band together. We cant even share the name sof the good AMC’s. Come on people, maybe if we helped each other out from the beginning, we would not be in this current situation.
We let this happen. We need some spinal cords and we need to demand respect.
I wont work for beans. And yes, I have less work. But I have a conscious and I wont be used. If we stand up to our belief that our work is worth more, instead of submitting, we might be heard. Im on strike. Wont work without respect.
40 Rick Stillman // May 2, 2009 at 10:11 am
Thanks for the dead on observation Lori. We all deserve what we get because we all cowered and allowed our so called profession to be hijacked. Someone else said they won’t prostitue themselves - well put. As of yesterday, I have lost 90% of my customers - which really hurts because my business more than tripled after the 1004MC form from hell came into the picture. Oh well - have at it boys and girls - fight over the scraps. I won’t miss working 7 days a week, day and night. I might get a real job and have a real life - yeah, a weekend is sounding better all the time… thanks for the experience and knowledge. I hear the train whistle now - time to leave. Good luck and Good riddance.
41 Bernard... // May 5, 2009 at 5:51 am
The AMC’s are good for appraisals who are afraid to grow a business & rather be order takers or told how to run thier business. Appraisers you are small business owners act like it. Why in a million years would you give up your control to an AMC’s. Who the F*** are they to control YOUR salary. What are they doing except answering an e-mail or phone call from the Lender. Real talent, I just took an appraisal order now I will take half your pay & you will say AMC’s there not that bad to work for. WOW, Now, at 40 years old I understand how Hitler came in to power. He didn’t take the power. The people just let him have it.
42 Chuck Miller // May 5, 2009 at 9:12 pm
Sigh… yes we are a wierd bunch, secret squirrel and morocco mole types, put us all in a room and appraisal stories overcome nascar and women, believe it, actually seen it from the inside. But never the less it is the nature of the business we have all worked so hard to build by that same secrecy. The all important client list has been laid waste to by the stroke of the pen. I’ve read 99 % of these remarks and replies from both appraisers and employees of various AMC’s and other institutions. It is interesting to see the lack of understanding by those who question why a business man or woman would be upset at having their workload increased and fees cut at the same time. My self I still am of the belief that we should be united, our fees be standardized at a reasonable figure that would allow us to succeed rather than merely survive eking out a meager existence. If you look beyond the initial rant each of us have contributed something here. Union, Standard fee, Rotating selection pool and so on. If you put these all together it really might work. I’m sure those on the other side of the fence who stand to lose a little of thier new income might balk but hey welcome to our world. The real question is how do we do it, sucessfully organize to be a unified force and retain some semblance of our independence. any suggestions? I have one lets get the brokers and loan originators who get 6 to 25k per sucessful loan to cut thier fees and meet our full fee right? I mean if it is going to be a symbiotic relationship why would you cut off your nose to spite your face
43 Jeff Oliver // May 6, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I completely agree with Bernard…we have done this to ourselves. The sad part is that many people like to complain about things and very few come up with REAL solutions. A union is probably not gonna happen just by the sheer nature of the industry and the fact that the larger money lies in the hands of the AMC’s, which are nothing more than puppets of the big banks. That is why my company has banded together to do concerted marketing, ordering, technology, etc and tried to minimize the admin fees that are necessary to run any good company.
I truly believe and have been saying this for a while now that we ought to start getting angry with the various state governing boards. Here in Calif, they act like their hands are tied. If a person commits fraud, or any other illegal act, they ought to lose license, be fined and jailed!!! Period. Stop trying to play nice guy…the so called watchdogs have ruined the industry by allowing puppy mills, and not prosecuting people when they are caught. Start weeding out the bad appraisers who defile this great career. Think about it, if the bottom 1/3 of bad appraisers were removed from the pool, this would not be an issue because there would be more work for you and me…
44 Chuck Miller // May 7, 2009 at 6:11 am
I too agree in part with Bernard and Mr. Oliver that as a whole the appraiser has allowed the industry to dictate and lessen the role of the appraiser. Also I agree the those who commit fraud or grevious errors in judgement should be held accountable and liable for punitive measures. Unions more than likely are logistically impossible under the current structure. I also imagine that every other unionized business sector said those exact same words. The desired end result we all should agree on is business, the right to a reasonable fee for service provided. We as apprasiers get the least amount of money for any real estate related transaction, a mandatory service with a hefty chunk of accountability attached. Doesn’t seem quite right does it. No matter how you do it, one service, bundled services or part of a larger management service the appraiser gets squat. Yes, there are unscrupulous, untrained and sub standard (insert your profession here). Its not just appraisers, each of you appraisers, brokers, reviewers etc. have contributed to the mess and each has applied pressure in some form to make a report conform to a preconception of value wished for etc. Before anybody gets on the higher horse and says not me I will say B.S. It is about cultivation and retention of clientele in short business. I know it and you know it. Granted some go further than others but absolutley no one is innocent. At this point the implementation of HVCC and its directives towards AMC’s is unavoidable. Nobody, myself included has come up with a way to retain what little percentage of the pie we get. For licensed proffesionals that are required to know the various values of a dollar how can we be so stupid to think that rising cost and shrinking fees would be ok, because we are told it will be better? Unified presence, pressure and voice to the Governing body, ASB, USPAP those 2 bodies that govern all appraisal writing need to be persuaded that an implementation of legislation promoting fairness of fees to be paid to the appraiser be consistent with the economic equivilent of the cost of doing and maintaining an appraisal business. Change the laws…Everybody else can tack on what they like over and above our fee. That I beleive is the solution, we get a set fee, starting at $350 with incremental negotiable steps of $100 for complexity. 2-4 family start at 450 with the same negotiations. Pass or fail an order is accompanied by a remitted fee. If I have to be the horse that pulls the cart I want carrots and apples too.
45 Jeff Oliver // May 7, 2009 at 8:47 am
Chuck Miller…you are absolutely correct. I wish, for my own benefit, that there was standardized pricing!!! Then the quality would be the only thing companies would have to pick their appraisal company by. Also with standardized pricing the lending companies would realize that we are united at least on one small part which would pressure the goverment types to take heed and pay attention when we say there are horrible appraisers out there who need to be dealt with. As it stands right now policing ourselves does no good when they won’t punish these people!!! I think Mr. Miller is onto something. We should begin to communicate this with gov’t and get them to pass some sort of legislation as to minimum fees or some sort of regulated pricing!!!
46 mister d // May 8, 2009 at 9:21 am
I hear everyones complaints and I myself am quite upset about the HVCC as everyone is well aware that it is a truly absurd joke that will accomplish nothing it claims to correct. Following are a couple things I suggest appraisers due to combat this fraud.
First: Create your own AMC. It is quite easy to file corporate papers and the costs are minimal. You can then accept orders from your own AMC. Be sure to follow all the rules within the HVCC. It is simpy a matter of paperwork.
Second: Do not perform work for any other AMC’s period. I personally have only found one out of the 30 that I looked into that I could work with that didnt violate the HVCC rules they claim to adhere to. Over 25% stated they performed pre-comps on their web sites. Not to mention that most of the contracts they offer a retard would know not to sign.
I personally have decided to stay away from mortgae appraisals for the time being as the process to eliminate quality appraisers from the industry is beyond obvious. Jp morgan’s act of filing 2000 complaints with numerous state boards says everything. Most people do not know why they did this and the answer is quite simple. They filed these complaints to remove unwanted quality appraisers from their AMC’s roster. Shortly after filing these complaints they required all of the appraiser on their AMC’s approved list to reapply due to the new HVCC guidelines. One of the first questions on the list was one about compliants filed against you or your cmpany and of course if you have a complaint they would deny you access to their list. Removal of quality appraisers accomplished.
The most amazing thing about the HVCC is that the author MR. Cuomo not only was one of the key players in the demise of fannie and freddie as he destroyed all quality control measures in place while he was the Sec. of HUD. He also was on the board of an AMC named AMCO just prior to becoming Attorney General. Amco was bought out by dwellworks then renamed Valuation Services. This is an obvious attempt to disconnect ties to Mr. Cuomo. He actually had an advisory title. He was their advisor on government regualtions.
If you want to understand Mr. Cuomo and his objectives I highly suggest you search “cuomo hud and fraud” you will need sevearl days to absorb all the facts.
A few more hilarious facts about the HVCC, Fannie and Freddie.
1: The same week the HVCC went into affect fannie and freddie anounced that they will now offer a streamlined refi with no appraisal required. They are claiming concern for making quality ledning decisions while performing loans without appraisals in a time when most markets are decling. Obviously their only interest is protecting the banks principal inetrest. In my opinion they are simply kicking the can down the road.
2: Just yesterday Wells refused to accept an appraisal performed by my AMC and required a review performed by their AMC resdirect. I cant wait to see it as i had 4 sales, within 6 months, within 200 square feet, from the same subdivision. They actually made me provide a 5 comp that bracketed the square footage. Nowhere in the HVCC does it state that the lender can require that you use the AMC that they require. It simply states that an AMC must serve as a firewall. Steering by lenders to utilize service providers they require is in violation of FIRREA, RESPA and Title XI. As a matter of fact it is the fundamental foudation for RESPA. Keep up the good fight and good luck to all of us who were foolish enough to choose this profession.
47 Lori Davenport // May 11, 2009 at 5:59 am
Chuck Miller says: “We as appraisers get the least amount of money for any real estate related transaction, a mandatory service with a hefty chunk of accountability attached. Doesn’t seem quite right does it.”
And that is the reason we are in this predicament. We are on the lowest rung. Money speaks. Are we just patsies in the big game?
I am also a Realtor and I have to say, for all the dues I send to NAR (National Association of Relators) and the local boards as well, in the end, its worth it. They speak for us, watch out for us and lobby for our best interest. Its nice to have a voice in Washington. The lending institution has it….Appraisers dont.
But NAR is on our side. They have fought against the HVCC. They have done more for appraisers than any appraiser association or governing body. All the ASB and the Appraisal Foundation do for us is give us more guidelines to follow.
48 Chuck Miller // May 12, 2009 at 5:35 am
Ms. Davenport, that is exactly my point “All the ASB and the Appraisal Foundation do for us is give us more guidelines to follow.” they govern what we do and how we do it. Get them to mandate a fee structure we can live with.
49 Lori Davenport // May 13, 2009 at 8:30 am
At first thought, a fee structure sounds terrible and something I didn’t think I would ever consider, but may be worthy of a ponder. Maybe (big maybe) its not such a bad idea, as long as there is a way for us to make changes without too much bureaucratic ado.
But there are too many “what ifs”.
It may work for “standard” appraisals, but what about difficult ones? I can see that it would help to keep AMC’s from access to our pockets, but how would it help otherwise?
Maybe we should all just be subcontractors for the government.
In real estate, the market governs the commission. Appraisers cannot work for commission but if we let the market govern our pay, then we get what we got now. There are too many appraisers willing to work for half of what we are used to, which means we all have to lower our rates (or the quality) to stay competitive. In real estate, if half the agencies lowered their commission rates, the rest would have to follow to stay in the game.
Part of the desire for us to become independent fee appraisers is because we want to work for ourselves, we don’t want to answer to others, we want to set our schedules, our fees and we trust our skills and our competency. We don’t want others telling us what to do. Those are strong qualities, but we also don’t like to stand up for ourselves. We are alike a bunch of spoiled children, we want to play by our own rules, but we still want mommy to fix things when the big bully tries to take over…problem is, in this game there is still the whiny child and the big bully, but no mommy.
Do we need one? Or can we take this bully on, on our own? It remains to be seen. I’m not sure I want to play this game anymore. Life is too short.
I’m not opposed to finding other ways to pay the bills, being multifaceted is a good strategy in this economy. I never liked relying on one source of income.
50 Lori Davenport // May 13, 2009 at 8:40 am
Just came across this…
http://www.petitiononline.com/hvcc/petition.html
We should all sign it, and forward it to others. I’m not sure if it will do any good, but it cant hurt. There are 9,598 signatures as of this post.
51 bajou // May 13, 2009 at 9:20 am
After nearly 20 years of appraising, I’m making better money in accounting & bookeeping services, normal work week, far less liability.
AMCs are the appraiser’s pimp.
52 Chuck Miller // May 13, 2009 at 11:51 pm
The fee structure would be the minimum with negotiable increases for complexity. We can take on the bully, one voice you’ll hardly hear 10,000 voices you can’t miss. I am writing a draft to send to the ASB and others to see what kind of feed back I get
53 Lori Davenport // May 15, 2009 at 11:35 am
Interesting….I’d like to see where that goes.
54 Stacker // May 15, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I have been contacted by one AMC and their offer for a fee has been more than what I normally charge. Told my FHA lender how much more they will charge and he told me they may reconsider using AMC for their FHA.
I don’t see the big deal with AMC. When you do work for an appraisal company like I have been doing for 15 years with a split fee of 50-55% then what the AMC pays seems in line. But now that company has to receive orders from AMC and if their fees are lower than going thru the lender that means my percentage will be even lower. Instead of around $150-180 my cut will drop lower. So the $145 which is mentioned from someone else may be in line. THat means the appraisal fee must be about $290 which is only about $10 less than the normal fee for the URAR. I guess we gotta be glad for what ever it is in this rough economic times. Just be glad we got work even though it isn’t much and we gotta supplement it with something else for now. We have to hope the economy turns around and we all get business again. If not, its not worth renewing license.
55 Jeff Oliver // May 19, 2009 at 10:19 am
I am guessing Stacker works in an area where that kind of fee will suffice and pay his/her bills. Here in Los Angeles makes $150/appraisal wont even pay my mortgage. Things are way over-priced here, yes I know, but the fact of the matter is if you spend on average 4-6 hours doing an appraisal then you are only being paif $30/hour for your time…that is ridiculous for a professional these days. I see other people going into careers where they make $30-50/hr with no experience or anythign required…I love appraising but we have got to come up with a united voice. I agree completely with Lori Davenport that we are like spoiled kids and I dont think any of us would be complaining if the fees dropped slightly, but getting cut in half is absurd!!!
56 ken // May 28, 2009 at 10:25 am
I am yet to see one AMC that has decent fees. At least five of them contact my office on a regular basis looking for bids. The fees are never in line with the industry and they want the appraisal back in two days. If you had a decent business with mortgage bankers and brokers the AMC’s just destroyed it. With all the new requirements on residential appraisals it is taking a lot longer to complete each assignment. I am working fifteen hours more each week and lucky to make two thirds the money in past years. Unfortunately we do not have a real national organization that would have paid someone to lobby against the management companies. This business will never be what it was in the past. We are better off finding a side way to supplement our incomes versus hoping for positive changes. Until we have a true voice in the industry we will always be thought of last.
57 30+ yrs & considering leaving the profession // May 29, 2009 at 12:30 am
I just reviewed my first application to work with a large AMC. Am I the only one that has a problem signing their broad and invasive “Authorization For A Background Investigation.”
I understand an AMC’s need for a credit report, a state disciplinary check, a criminal background check, a verification of my education, verification of my experience, and speaking with my past employers or clients but I do NOT understand authorizing an AMC to speak to “any other persons,†or investigate my “mode of living†(what does that mean?), or obtain records that are unamed in the request (they use the term: but is not limited to), or have copies of my medical records. Yes….MY MEDICAL RECORDS.
I am an excellent appraiser. I have 30 plus years of appraisal experience. I have no criminal record, no prior or pending disciplinary actions. I have extensive appraisal education. A couple of designations. I am a participating member of my community and volunteer. I have no existing medical problems and take no medication (I would be okay with a drug test), and I know of no one that would state a negative thing about me (not even my ex) but feel they ask too much of an Independent Contractor.
There is no disclaimer that this information will not be sold, how safe it will be, and the only expiration of this authority is when your relationship with the AMC ends. In fact, in goes on to states that you can be investigated “at any time” AND unless you live in 1 of only 5+/- states that require them to make the investigation available to you, you will never know what is in your file or how many times you are investigated.
I have had two attorneys review this very broad and invasive investigation request. Both advised me not to sign. Please explain to me why you did? I am not saying you are wrong…just explain to me why. Do you feel safe that it will not be misused or somehow not go into some database?
I guess being brought up in the 70’s has made me paranoid about “Big Brother” watching our every move but truly I have nothing to hide. It just feels wrong. It feels like I am slowly giving up some of my precious US citizen’s rights.
58 Lori Davenport // May 29, 2009 at 6:10 am
By the way, I have signed up for a few, 3 or 4 AMC’s and still have not gotten ANY work from any of them. So how is that possible if they are supposed to rotate appraisers and use them autonomously?
Is it because now instead of the brokers picking up the phone and calling their favorite appraiser, its now the AMC’s that keep using their favorite appraisers based on the lowest fees and willingness to submit to their pressure?
What the hell is the difference other than another layer of greedy hands skimming off our pay?
Only difference is, now I have no work in that arena. Thank god for FHA.
59 John A. Humm // Jun 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm
So, now we are forced to accept fees which are from the 1970’s which are much less than escrow, title and of course, the mgmt. company’s fees. The mantra now is: “Make the appraiser pay for the AMC fee! They are the ones to blame. The lenders can’t pay for THAT… ” Seems fair. On top of that, the borrower is paying more for the appraisals than before this insanity and they are mad at the appraiser for that. Our expenses are from the 21st. century but they want us to work for 20th. century wages. Its an outrage but that’s what you get when you get the government involved in things as they usually make a mess of everything they touch, unless of course its Congress’s salaries. Where was our industry leaders when this insanity was being put together? Probably making more regulations and setting us up for more classes to take. Why should we as an industry accept anything less than full fees and reasonable turn-times. We need fair compensation. We’ve worked hard to get those fees up over the years and to be told to shut up and sit down is wrong. I too have found that the majority of the orders in my area have been going to the big shops. I can’t even get into these AMC sites fast enough to grab an order. I even got a Blackberry to speed up the process only to learn that Blackberrys are on a time delay as is Outlook and Outlook Express. So you’re dead if you try and use these. I questioned my cable provider as I thought someone had to have some kind of an auto-responder but no, the cable company doesn’t offer that type of feature. So the big guys have an in and the rest of us are told: You can’t talk to your old clients, you can’t engage new clients either and you can’t get in to get any orders. Unfortunately, the cure is worse than the disease ever was and its likely to ruin a good many of us honest appraisers before something is done to correct the mess this Obamaination of desolation has caused.
60 Lori Davenport // Jun 3, 2009 at 7:48 am
I dont think there is any other job where no longer can you put your name out there, do a great job and expect your good product and service to be good advertising for you. In fact, there is no point to advertise at all. We have no freedom to run our business. We are at the mercy of being picked out of a hat.
I think the issue here is bigger and worse than we can imagine. We have lost all control and have no freedom to be INDEPENDENT FEE APPRAISERS, as the name suggests.
All the work and effort….It is extremely hard to get an appraisers license in this state (CT) with all the classes, finding a supervisory appraiser and actually getting enough assignments for your hours needed (not to mention your split will be ridiculously small now) and now you have to have a college degree and the state exam is very difficult with a very low pass rate.
Who is going to be stupid enough to enter this field now?
But hey, who needs appraisers now anyway? All you gotta do is call a RE agent and get a BPO, because they seem to be just as good as an appraisal these days.
61 Loidene Acworth GA // Jun 3, 2009 at 8:38 am
I have had it with government intervention in the name of helping the appraisers not circum to the pressures from Mortgage lenders. I have run my own business for 7 years. I picked and chose who I worked with in order to keep my license clean. So I could trust who I was working with and they, in turn, could trust me to keep them out of trouble as well. Since the HVCC, I have lost every one of my clients! What happened to Free enterprise?? I believe HCVV is Unconstitutional ! I am being helped right out of the business. What other business in the US is told they can no longer work with, talk to have a relationship with their current clients? I don’t need a mediator to run my business, especailly one that seemingly has no rules of engagement! I am on 20 lists and received 5 appraisals last month with reduced fees!!! Guess I have to get on 100. So why did I go ahead and become certified? I am hoping that FHA never becomes HVCC and I might still have a bit of independence! Take a look at the statistics for the number of appraisers for your state listed on the ASC website. You can get a complete listing of all the appraisers that have been licensed in your state. Of the 12,191 appraisers in GA there are only 4600 +/- who are still active. (Over 600 went out of business last year!) Of those 4600 +/-, there are only 2700 +/- who hold the CR or CG designation! Guess there should be plenty of FHA appraisals if I can survive until October! Let’s tell the oil companies that they need to pay a third party to pass their paperwork through, see how well it works in other professions! No, actually they would just raise gas prices. Shame we don’t have that same opportunity to control our fees!!
62 Jeff Oliver // Jun 10, 2009 at 7:26 am
So iwas reading that 54% of appraisers at least some of the time are asked to re-examine a report to potentially adjust the value to make the deal work….that is amazing to me because the AMC I am a part of has never done that once to my knowledge. The only thing we have ever sent back to the appraiser is requests for revision when there is an error. I am shocked that we as appraisers give in to this kind of pressure, knowing you could lose your license over something like that. Nearly 85% of all appraisals are being reviewed according to a friend who works higher up at a bank. So why run the risk. I get that we need the work and are therefore more willing to “bend” the rules to get it, but come on…if anyone loses their license they lose 5, 10, 20 years worth of income!!!
We just kicked one appraiser off our list because they could not be bothered to update our company of a problem getting into the house and therefore the appraisal report was late…we gave this person more than 7 days to complete it. Come on people, you can complain all you want but you also gotta be somewhat flexible with companies who have clients to keep happy also. Some appraisers need to get over the arrogant appraiser attitude and start doing a good job or start losing business!!!
63 Dana Matonis // Jun 11, 2009 at 11:10 am
I’m going to support what was written by Lori Davenport earlier. AMC’s do not appear to be distributing work fairly, if they distribute it at all. I have been a appraiser since the early 80’s and over the years when approached by a AMC let them know under no uncertain terms what I thought of them and where they might direct their work.
Fast forward to 2009 - and you guessed it - no work from AMC’s. Now I have been hearing rumors that later this year (August ?) FHA may start distributing their work through AMC’s.
It would appear that those people that had a relationship with AMC’s in the past have faired well. I know of one local appraiser that is getting between 15 to 25 jobs a month and others that spend their day reading. Doesn’t sound like it’s being evenly distributed to me !
64 Dana Matonis // Jun 11, 2009 at 11:49 am
For those appraisers that have not read the information and findings provided by C. Butterfield et. al. with the Appraisers Union also know as the Real Estate Professionals Free Trade Coalition . Drop them a request at info@Appraisalunion.org
The information is well documented and it is a thourough and detailed explanation of the players, as well as the how and why, those in control are as commited to taking our income as much as we wish to keep it.
65 Lori Davenport // Jun 24, 2009 at 10:38 am
Thanks Dana for the supporting comment.
Going over some old paperwork from Realtor orientation back in 2001, I came across this page: “Appraisal vs CMA vs BPO”
I am not going to copy all of the text, but there are some important things we were taught then, and I wonder if any of this is STILL the LAW in CT today. If so, lenders and RE agents are violating the law constantly by using BPO’s. Here are the items of note:
“An appraisal is an analytical method of arriving at an opinion of value…developed using the guidelines of USPAP…requires an apppraisal license or certification…a CMA is not an appraisal but simply an analysis of properties that have sold or are on the market made in anticipation of obtaining a listing for sale…A licensed real estate broker may perform a CMA ONLY as part of listing a property…A BPO is similar to a CMA but is generally performed for a lender who has or intends to foreclose on a property. A licensed real estate broker or salesperson CANNOT perform a BPO except under the same conditions as a CMA…A real estate broker or salesperson MAY NOT CHARGE A FEE for either a CMA or a BPO without violation of the laws of the state of CT regarding licensing. ONLY A LICENSED OR CERTIFIED REAL ESTATE APPRAISER MAY RECEIVE A FEE FOR ESTIMATING THE MARKET VALUE OR MARKET PRICE OF REAL ESTATE”.
I think many lenders and RE agents are in violation. First off because they know they are not doing it for the listing, but there are ways around that. But they ARE being paid a fee and that is in clear violation of what was taught to us in Realtor school. Unless of course this law has been done away with. Does anyone know if it has? What about other states?
I know alot of our work has gone out to RE agents doing BPO’s but I had no idea that it might actually be illegal.
66 Mike Goff // Aug 10, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I don’t work for unreasonable fees and unrealistic turn times. Look at VA fees and turn times, that’s the norm for residential assignments.
I have over thirty five years in this profession and refuse to pimp myself, or my appraisers. Lenders, AMC’s, and form filling cut rate appraisers get what they deserve.
When anyone wants the job done right, and wants to pay an reasonable fee with a realistic turn time, my office will accept the assignment. I get very few assignments from Lenders and/or AMC’s, what does that tell you.
I turn in all “crap” work to the appropriate agencies, whether it is in review or if I find about it from another source. There is a lot of crap out there. I don’t review the appraiser, but the work product.
It appears there is a lot of demand for review work. Get qualified to do this work, and clean up your profession. Get the “crappers” out of the business. If you want to accept low fees, I don’t have a problem with that, just do your job and govern yourself accordingly.
Most AMC’s shun quality appraisers, and I am politically active in this regard. Get involved, it is your profession. Lots of States coming up with legislation on AMC’s, they need input from the quality appraisers.
How do I live? My clients generally are attorneys, county and state government, and compliance review clients. Learn to testify or teach, it separates the wannabes from the real thing.
67 Jodi Langford // Aug 13, 2009 at 12:46 pm
I was recently contacted by an AMC called Valuation Support Services. The approval packet they asked me to fill out included their fee schedule which I was required to agree to and sign. These were the lowest fee’s I have ever seen. Insultingly low. For example their 1004 URAR/Single Family fee is $200.00. In our area, the usual and customary fee is $310 at rock bottom to $350.00+. For a 2055 exterior they offer $145.00! Of course, I declined at their fees, but sent them a letter with my fee schedule attached, offering my services, should they decide to pay the customary fee’s. I am confident that NO competent appraiser would join their panal at their insultingly low fee’s. I only hope no one in my area sells out to them.
68 GFC // Aug 15, 2009 at 8:26 am
Since May 1st when the appraisal industry was turned over to the AMC’s my 35 years of honest quality appraisal work by a staff of up to 24 appraisers in 3 locations is finished…….I quit! I just recently closed all offices and laid off all appraisers and trainees. The AMC’s still send a few low fee - fast turn around assignments which I accept, only to let them rot on the shelves never to be inspected or completed. Hope this helps the AMCs with their client relations. So long and good luck to all you good and honest appraisers.
69 Guy in La // Aug 16, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I share the frustrations of everyone here. I will offer a little advice that has worked for me to some extent with AMCs, but first I have to share something my father told me years ago - and I have to laugh at its present relevence. He once told me as I go through life…”son, if you ever have to be a whore, make sure you’re not a cheap one.” At a young age it didn’t make much sense to me back then, but I’m understanding he wisdom now.
But for my advice at how I’ve kind of stuck it back at some AMCs. When they first contact me with an absurd low-ball fee, I give them a speech about how they are getting a “Rolls-Royce service for the price of a beat up Volkswagon” - I little fun on my part. I also ask them to take note of the quality of my work compared to other appraisers who work for the same peanuts.
Then, after doing one or two jobs for them, I email them and ask them what they think of my work. I get a reply thanking me with a compliement on the quality of my work. I then email them back and say “okay, now that you recognize the quality of “my” service, here is my revised fee schedule of what I’m willing to work for. If I don’t hear back from you with any jobs, then I’ll understand your desire to use another appraiser.”
What happens? Most of the AMCs I do this to will phone me. Naturally they’re not happy, they try to convince me to go back to my previously agreed fee. Now at this point, what does this tell you? It says they like my work and definitely want to continue using me - and of course I throw that in their face and let them know I know that’s why they’re calling me.
I alway act magnanomous and say something like “oh, I perfectly understand if you wish to use a poorer quality appraiser at a lower fee, and I’m sure your lender/client will also understand.” They catch on quickly I’m not budging.
The end result: they cave! Oh, there’s a few who won’t, but you would be surprise they will cave. Sure, the quantity of jobs much drop off - by a little - but I make that up by pulling this stunt with more AMCs to make up the difference.
Trust me, this works. I have some of the biggest name AMCs paying me $300+. The trick here is you have to first “suck them in” by doing a couple of jobs at their fee, then pull the bait and switch. It’s about time we appraisers beat them at their own game. By no means am I trying to brag here, my intention is to help every appraiser in this country accomplish the same with these clowns as I have. I wish everyone great success!
70 David // Aug 17, 2009 at 11:42 am
Certified Residential Appraiser, NC:
First of all, appraising is not a “game.” Why would an appraiser consider it as such? This is not a game! It’s a responsible profession that carries dire consequence if you falter in your representation of property data and value conclusions.
The HVCC does not apply to appraisers, but to lenders. It has proliferated the use of AMCs and has promoted their purpose, whether intended or not. However, nothing has given more power to AMCs more so than the real estate appraiser. Appraisers simply do not understand the value of the “appraisal” in the overall lending process. They do not understand the Value Theory of Business and those who make decisions to accept the lower fees, ridiculous turn times, and allow the AMC to MANAGE their business are affecting the businesses of those who consider themselves to be true professionals who possess a sense of business and value contribution to the lending process.
Try the following and see what results you get. Walk into a Doctors office for treatment. Tell the Doctor you are only going to pay $50 total for treatment, and this is not a co-pay, it’s a total of $50. You’ll immediately be told to “take a hike.” The Doctor knows that you will not get treatment for that price from another Doctor. You’ll simply do without treatment!
This scenario may also be contributing to the low fees accepted from AMCs. An appraiser trains new appraisers and the trainees’ fee is $150. And suppose the fee, after experience is gained, reaches $175. The overall fee as an example is $350. The trainee, once licensed or certified, sees an opportunity to establish their own business. Keep in mind, it is very cost effective to register a company name, buy your own software and E&O, business equipment (which nearly everyone has anyway), and work out of your home. The newly certified appraiser sees this….”I can make $75 to $100 more for an assignment on my own versus working for my supervisor.” This is where the lack of business experience creates poor decision making and the decisions made by these inexperienced individuals becomes detrimental to other appraisers. Many appraisers have no clue as to what it cost to operate their businesses. I see this as a huge dilemma for those who do know.
I recently made the following calculations regarding who is paid what in the loan process. It is based upon a loan of $175,000. The lender/investor is excluded as we all know their profits are astronomical. This scenario assumes mortgage brokers get 1.5%.
Broker - $2,625, or ……….. 1.5%
Realtor - $10,500, or …………6%
Attorney - $600, or ………..3/10 of 1%
Appraiser - $275, or ………..1/10 of 1%
Let’s look at the contribution of the appraiser AND the appraisal in the lending process.
I’ve applied my own scenario afterwards to show how appraising compares to the discussion.
The following writings are from mathematicians and business scholars who have won Nobel prizes or have made contributions to the business and economic worlds. They include John Nash, John von Neumann, Adam Brandenburger, and Barry Nalebuff. The theory states, and by the way is proven to be true:
The definition of added value is, “Added value equals total value created with you in the game, minus total value created without you in the game.” Consider the mortgage lending process as a “game.” A key concept of the “game” theory of business is added value. This theory states that if competition is left unfettered, no player will get more than his or her individual added value in a game. Thus, added value allows us to characterize who has power and who does not. It allows us to understand how the pie is created and how it is divided. Following is a way to think about creating value and capturing value. Understand, there is a dual purpose here. The first is where appraisers have failed, in my opinion.
1. CREATING VALUE is an inherently COOPERATIVE process. To create value, people CANNOT ACT IN ISOLATION. They have to recognize their INTERDEPENDENCE. The IMPORTANCE OF THE PRODUCT, good, or service CREATES THE VALUE.
2. Capturing value is inherently COMPETITIVE. Single entities wishing to capture value will make the individual determination as to the value of the product to be captured. Creating value that can be captured is the essence of business. However, one must realize, when more and more players contributing similar products enter the game, individual value can be diminished. This is competition.
For example, what is the added value of the glass that makes up the screen in a laptop computer? Without strong and lightweight glass, there would be no laptop computers. So, the added value of the glass is the same as the added value of the laptop computers, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are several makers of computer glass. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of glass, but what is the added value of their particular glass.
Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting small manufacturing cost advantages. The computer makers would not miss any one manufacturer very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a glass that was even slightly less likely to break than that of its’ rivals. A broken screen renders a laptop practically useless. Thus, the added value of a tougher glass would equal the whole pie multiplied by the reduction in the chance of breakage, which is likely to change the value of the particular glass to dollars per computer rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the laptop computer) rather than one’s link in the chain (making glass).
Now, let’s rephrase the above scenario to apply to the mortgage lending “game.”
What is the added value of the appraisal that provides the property condition and value to a lender? Without an appraisal there would be no mortgage loan. So, the added value of the appraisal is the same as the added value of the mortgage loan, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are countless appraisers providing appraisal services. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of the appraisal, but now becomes what is the added value of the individual appraiser.
Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting competitive pricing for similar, undifferentiated services. The lenders or AMC’s/VMC’s would not miss any one appraiser very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a means of completing quality, mistake-free reports in two hours rather than two days at lower fees. No appraisals renders the loan process worthless. Thus, the added value of a more reliable, faster, and cheaper appraisal would equal the whole pie multiplied by the improved service, which is likely to change the value of the particular appraiser to dollars per appraisal rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the mortgage loan) rather than one’s link in the chain (the appraisal).
This is a clear indication that the value within the mortgage lending process, or “game,” is the appraisal, not the appraiser. Lenders and AMC’s/VMC’s do not consider the value the individual appraiser provides to the process as they have injected their own guidelines that every appraiser must follow. Simply meet those guidelines and you have an acceptable appraisal, regardless of the quality of the data content. AMC’s/VMC’s primary goals are to find the cheapest and quickest, and those who can follow guidelines.
For now, think of the “game” as a “pie” consisting of several “slices.” Each slice represents the entities involved in completing a mortgage lending transaction. They would most likely include: 1) the lenders; 2) the borrower; 3) the attorneys; 4) the AMCs/VMCs; and 5) the appraisal. One must ask, which slice of pie contributes the most value to the pie, and if that slice were removed, what then becomes the value of the pie? Remove the lender, no money, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the borrower, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the attorney. Deeds can still be recorded. Title searches can still be made. The pie may retain value, but the real effect is undetermined. Remove the AMC/VMC. Value is not affected. Remove the appraisal. The pie becomes worthless. However, replacing the appraisal slice with a multiple slices called “appraisers” diminishes the value of each appraiser slice of the pie. If one appraiser leaves the pie there are countless others to fill the void. The slice entitled appraisers has lost value until such circumstance arises where all appraisers leave the pie. At that point the pie is once again worthless.
We are not an industry, we are a profession. And until we realize this and act as a profession rather than as individuals, we will never reach a plateau similar to that of Doctors, attorneys, or other highly skilled professions. I, for one, do not allow others to manage my daily business operations. I do not allow others to coerce, pressure, or intimidate me. I consider myself a professional and my business a profession, not an industry. I, like Doctors, provide a much needed service that has economic ramifications tthroughout the U.S. If that’s not responsibility I don’t know what is.
71 Guy in La // Aug 17, 2009 at 8:59 pm
David,
I’m not sure if you were responding to my comment…if you were, let me say this. I don’t disagree with “anything” you say…I certainly understand the value of the service I and other appraisers like yourself perform - it’s the other guys (i.e. AMCs) who don’t! To them, this “is” a game - a numbers game playing one appraiser against the other - that’s my point.
All I refer to in my previous comment is the very same “psychological marketing” tactics the marketing experts have been advocating for decades. And let’s face it - we are human beings - we have a brain, which immediately implies there is always some sort of “psychology” going on - especially when the other side (AMCs) is trying to use it on us. It’s human nature - and not a sin - let alone to raise question to my or any other appraiser’s professionalism. Personally, I don’t see the connection.
My professionalism is there and apparent in every step of the process when I am performing an appraisal assignment. The “psychological marketing” tactics I use on AMCs have nothing to do with how I appraise - they’re just to achieve my desired fee. Not to mention those “professional” marketing experts (everybody pays money to hear lecture) would certainly approve.
72 liz // Aug 26, 2009 at 10:54 am
It has been very helpful reading this blog. When I first entered this world 12 years ago I was full of hope and excited about the appraisal profession. I feel I had great hands on training by my certified. I feel very confident about the quality of my appraisals and I am very thorough. I am horrified by the work that I review. So much so that it is not worth my time to review most of it as it takes too long to go over all the errors. It is a joke… I recently reviewed a report by an appraiser who has taken my workload by undercutting my fees and turntimes. He is a licensed appraiser and turns out terrible reports. He obviously did not receive adequate training. Back to the problem. I think there is a fundamental issue with this industry. I think it is poor practice to leave the training to individuals who view trainees as competition and use them for their gain until they can wobble out into battle and hopefully last long enough to establish themselves. Not all do, but a lot take advantage. What is going to happen to this industry if someone does not start turning out quality appraisers. It is left to us yet we don’t want to due to the liability and as soon as you train someone they leave and they are competing for the same work. I think bad appraisers give all of us a bad name and has added to the problem. I think low fees are not the core and or only issues here. I have a mortgage to make and you do what work you can each day. I don’t think not accepting an appraisal due to fee alone is going to change anything. There is not an organized front and at least i know that even though i occasionally take discounted orders I know they will get quality work from my office regardless of fee. I get irritated by the personal attacks by many in this blog saying accepting the lower fee is the problem! Because I accept a lower fee does not validate abuse nor does it condone poor appraisal practice by everyone involved.
My dad started an AMC when all this talk of the HVCC first started. He had the idea that as an AMC developed by an appraiser would be fair and it would be an opportunity for appraisers to be compliant and keep some of the work they had established before hvcc hit. he only charges $50 per order so most work would still sit in the $300 range. He started contacting appraisers nationwide to get their workload processing through the AMC before the deadline so they could keep their business. It was pathetic! We were hung up on, laughed at, told we were trying to take their work, that HVCC was never going to happen and many appraisers knew nothing about HVCC two months before it happened. We have only ourselves to blame because we are clueless as to what is going on in this industry. We are cut throat and do not work together. I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that we are dropping like flies and I am so burned out I don’t care that I have lost most of my work due to my fees. I am still hopeful that this will still be a good business for me but I am looking for a back up as much of the braindamage may not be worth it anymore…
side note: who is regulating the amc’s it seems it is left to each state to have certain guidelines. Why are we the only ones with heavy financial penalties not only from our board but civil as well!! Who is our advocate anyway.
For what is it worth I have not had any issues with rels, my fees are 290 and i get more work when they are busy and random orders when it is slow. I have had a good experience with servicelink until recently now they want 200 and 225 per order. mda solutions i receive 260 to 300. After that, it is the random trickle when companies need something quick or a certified. I did not have a good experience with national and i am not inerested in their work. My dad has had decent work load with LSI at a discount of course. a little input from my experience hope that helps. Nice to vent to folks in the same boat.
73 Margie Gosser // Sep 1, 2009 at 8:25 am
Hello, after 26 years in the business of having regular ethical clients, deciding how to handle pressure, deciding to be and act professional, I am pretty much leaving the profession. Pressure did not start with the real estate crisis. Who does not have day-to-day pressure in their business? Pressure to do OR not do the right thing? Lawyers, Politicians, Judges, Doctors, Government Lobbyist…come on!!! Now, the most unethical people in my day-to-day are the AMCs. AMCs want my professional services for a fee of $140, pressure me for a turn-time, don’t use me again if I don’t comply, & capture me with uneducated pressure & requests. I have heard there is a “appraiser black-list”…guess I am or shortly will be on it! I just can’t do it…I can not do ‘enough’ ethical services to PAY my monthly “running a business” expenses. How about this since “price fixing” is NOW where we are with AMCs. The Government form a Research Group inclusive of Appraiser’s from sections and sub-sections across the country to Provide a fair “Appraisal Service Form Fee Schedule” based upon time-Type of form that AMCs, Banks, Mortgage Personel would be mandated to use. It could be a “range” BUT fair to the appraiser in their Area- Scope. You could still discuss special circumstances but at least the fee would go up not down! This task would not take long or be complicated. Appraiser’s input would be paramount. As far as government cost…no more than the HVCC notification! AMCs have no regulation, not mandated to pay for services or abide by any rules. Government was at fault for not describing the clear use of AMCs in the beginning, AND AMCs owned by Banks are robbing appraisers of our FAIR WAGE. I believe the Government’s master plan is to get rid of appraiser’s…it must be because they have pretty much killed the profession. Who would want to go through all the education down time, pay all state fees, CE, E&O, software, advertising, and all else to make less than …being able to afford it?
74 ALLEN CHAMBERLAND // Sep 2, 2009 at 4:51 pm
I would be in favor of bypassing the AMCs by forming a trade assoication with direct contact with mortgage lenders. I no longer get orders from AMCs as I will not work for any less for someone who does not care about my appraisal license nor my livelihood verses the regular client pool I have in my local area. I have to laugh when I get a call from an AMC asking about price and will “get back to you”. 1-2 weeks have gone by and they call back and still insist on a 24 hour turnaround time- by this time I have picked up 2-4 new assignments that have become my new priority. ..
75 Richard Hardy // Sep 3, 2009 at 9:11 pm
I have been appraising in Hawaii for more than 15 years and elsewhere for longer. It is tragic to me that I haven’t yet seen any comments regarding the root of the ‘financial Crisis’. We (the people) had sufficient regulations in place to prevent what happened - Unfortunately it was NOT enforced. I am NOT the Bank that loaned my customers money to someone who walked in as a “Janitor” and stated he made $10,000/month and walked out with a loan far exceeding his ability. I am NOT the Underwriter who turned a blind eye to discrepancies in the loan package. I an NOT FNMA nor FHLMC who allowed continuing and exxceedingly higher and higher LTV’s to be acceptable. I am NOT the AMC who is owned by a bank, or an AMC who is owned by ‘that’ banks brother-in-law. I am NOT the appraiser who inflated the values. I AM however, an appraiser who spent the last 15+ years developing a good relationship with a variety of entities - some are AMC’s - some are Lender’s - some WERE Mortgage Brokers. But alas, Our government, in it’s infinite wisdom, has allowed an individual who nearly collapsed HUD to now ‘cramdown FNMA’s throat’ the “HAVOC” ,(read HVCC) which absolutlely will NOT solve the problem. Just as in the ’80’s, the appraisers were blamed for the collapse of the S & L Industry - We (Appraisers) have yet again risen to the ‘top’ and have single-handedly bankrupt the world . . .Unfortunately, the national appraising community is diverse, meaning we are 150,000 independant business people. I know AI is trying, along with others, bet we really are too fragmented - I wish I had an answer that would give all of us a common voice. But Wait . . .How about the Government? Don’t they work for us? Can’t we find someone in Congress who could see our plight? Or is it just going to be the continuing downward spiral . . .For me, I am a Flag Waving American - I believe in the ability of this country to wright itself. I am a hugh believer in that “One person standing alone is still a majority of one”. Damn the torpedos - full speed ahead
76 Dana Matonis // Sep 11, 2009 at 5:30 pm
As an appraiser with 26 years experience, if a client asked me what my fee was I would tell him. I’m under no obligation to shelter the income of the AMC.
First I don’t work for AMC’s which is why I’m looking at early retirement.
Second; by working for them for any fee you are helping them to stay in business.
Lastly, Cuomo is the Attorney General of New York and soon will have to deal with the Department of Justice for overstepping his bounds. They will find him guilty of any number of violations of law not to mention his monetary gain from the “Code”, but because of his connections and wealth little will be done !!
They are already touting him as the next Governor of New York because he has done such a great job ? WTF
77 Z // Sep 14, 2009 at 2:54 am
Is there any professional office where a client can call/walk in and say “I need this and I will pay you X” and you have to take it? It’s called a flea market as far as I know….
My favorite is the “Independent Valuation Protection Institute ” established by Cuomo for appraisers to turn to for complaints, assistance etc…It consists of 1 web page, no real info, no phone number for complaints which is supposed to be there, no email, no address….nothing.
Lastly, I wonder why Mr Cuomo who is so intent appraiser independence from lenders turning around and allowing lenders to own the AMC’s? It is like having a farmer hire a wolf to watch his henhouse.
My 2 cents….
78 Jim // Sep 16, 2009 at 7:30 am
This appraiser has it RIGHT. The lack of independence has helped us down this path of inflated values. The only appraisers against HVCC are the ones whose next assignment depends on pleasing the mortgage brokers/lenders who can NEVER be pleased completely. Good editorial.
79 Randall Haines // Sep 17, 2009 at 8:14 pm
I see all the comments that are satisfied with AMC’s, but no percentages on the values they do not get. AMC’s quit sending my Company assignments in late 2006, since I would not get there desired values. If you do not provide value for them, they will slowly phase you out for someone that will. Are these satisfied appraisers the same undertrained appraisers that got values for the AMC’s and lenders during the high inflationary period when they used unreliable data from some “rubber stamper”. If you do market research like your suppose to, and not plug in pretty numbers to meet desired ratios, you do not get rich in this business.
80 Chris // Sep 18, 2009 at 7:43 am
Certified Residential Appraiser, FL
I have now read virtually every comment in this blog. I want to say that I appreciate the suggestions and comments put forth, particularly by several obviously experienced and well-read professionals, such as Chuck Miller, David in NC, Jeff Oliver and others. I am from a family of appraisers, mostly on the commercial side. My father thought I was crazy to want to be a residential appraiser–his comment to me was “they (meaning the lenders and government) step all over you…you have no lobby, no voice.” Sadly, he has been proved right.
I love our line of work and I have watched our profession be hounded, beat up and railroaded in the past two years. We need to be unified, we need to act as one voice. As David from NC put it, “without an appraisal, there is (typically) no loan.” We have got to find a way, state by state, nationally, or both to unite as one. If we, as a PROFESSION, would take some initiative and stop viewing each other as competition and instead act on ALL our behalf, I think we could all work at a higher fee, make a better living and be our own advocates instead of taking whatever is shoved down our throats.
I think standardizing fees and/or forming a union is an excellent start.
81 Lori Davenport // Sep 25, 2009 at 9:20 am
To Chris in FL, even though you didn’t mention me as a well-read professional, I’m OK, really, I am.
I agree with you on forming a union. Not sure on standardizing fees - but it might actually be a good thing.
Lets get the “National Independent Fee Appraisers Union” going. I’m on board in CT.
82 Mike Read // Sep 28, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Could you arrange to have the comments so the latest is at the top of the list, not at the bottom.
83 Tony Grubb // Oct 22, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I have to say that accepting an order for $175 is shocking given how hard we’ve all worked to obtain our licenses/certifications. I remember just about a year ago I was getting paid $400 for a 1004 and now I’m doing them for $275 on average.
We all know the horror stories of how AMC’s work and the fees they dangle in front of us like a worm on a hook. However, those of you accepting orders for a percentage of the fees we used to command are helping drive our fees down.
As a father of 4 I understand the need to put food on the table. However, we’re supposed to be better than that. We’re supposed to tell THEM our fee and get paid for our work. Not the other way around.
To hear an appraiser say $175 is ok is a disgrace to the appraisal profession. You should get out immediately because any appraiser proud of their career and hard work would never accept an assignment for that amount.
We may not have a lobbying group or union organization, but we do have our Email and phones. Something must be and can be done to give us back control of our profession. Call or Email your Senator or member of Congress and tell them what the AMC’s are doing. Demand that lenders pay them and allow us to bill the lender directly. We can do this if we all want fair fees. But as long as appraisers accept orders for next to nothing it’ll just make the task that much harder. Stand your ground and we can make things happen.
84 Vicki // Oct 28, 2009 at 11:59 am
I just read most of this blog and wanted to comment on an AMC I recently came across.
I am the marketing person for a ten appraiser firm (I am also a certified appraiser). It is my job to find and negotiate business when we are slow and to complete appraisal assignments when we are busy.
I recently looked into and signed up for ProVal USA. It appeared that some appraisers were receiving assignments in our area through this AMC. I left two messages for someone to call me back so I could better understand this AMC (no one answers their phones!) and received no calls back. Shortly thereafter we started to receive emails to pay them $50 to sign up with them and we would have to also pay them around $75 for each order we receive. They would debit our credit card. It looks like we would have to collect from their clients as well. What if their clients didn’t pay? We declined to do business with them. Pretty scary! I don’t even know what they do to earn their money.
Please feel free to correct me if my information is wrong. I wasn’t able to veryify anything with this company because they wouldn’t call me back.
We do work with many AMCs but our priorty clients are banks, credit unions and government agencies.
85 Cracker // Nov 4, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I don’t get all this unrest. If you think the fee is too small don’t accept the job. If you don’t like having to commit to a 48 hour turn around then don’t accept the job. You are still free to cultivate clients with the lawyers, banks, ect. You are still free to make the appointments at your conveniece, you are still free to work out of a large appraiser shop or your garage. And you are still free to go sell cars if you don’t like the deal. So, Whats up??
86 LarryXA // Nov 6, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Thx, this has definitely made my day!
_______________________
wtf
87 Allen // Nov 9, 2009 at 8:23 pm
AppraiserLoft.com- does not pay on time…3-9 months after completion of assignment. 6 months average.
ProTeck- ranks the appraiser based on turn time and quality…enphasis on turn time and not quality. My ranking 3 out of 5 starts….99% quality rating 70% turn time.
Southwest Financial- very low fees and high demand on fast turn time.
LSI- pays on time and fees are reasonable.
My state is requiring all AMC’s to register prior to doing business in the state of Arkansas, but they do not have the man power or revenue to “regulate” the activity.
As a whole, I think we asked for this type of business model, it just isn’t what we expected. I think that management companies should be regional, not national. An appraisal management in California has not business working with appraisers in New York or Tennessee. If the appraiser needs to be competent in his market, then so should the management company. How can a AMC company employee “review” and appraisal for a market they know nothing about? Insurance companies have to be licensed in the state they operate, we should apply the same principle of “knowledge” to AMCs. I really can’t wait for the AMC’s “USPAP” to come out. Should make for some interesting reading.
88 Vicki // Nov 17, 2009 at 9:53 am
Allen, thanks for your comments. I think your comments are what this blog is about. We need to get away from the “if you don’t like it - don’t work for them attitude” and figure out which ones we can work with (fees, turntime, hassle factor).
89 Carter // Nov 18, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Less than $300 for a single family report is a failed business model in my mind. So far I have managed to stick by this. If if can’t I will start the process of finding another profession and or job. Accepting $200 fees for a full report is pitiful. I was getting more in the early 1990’s. There are other options out there and working as a tenant farmer for AMC’s is not one.
90 Vicki // Dec 1, 2009 at 10:25 am
I’ve been asked to provide this feedback from our Chief Appraiser. iMortgage’s retrospective review department lacks seasoning and review staff tend to view reports with an eye for new financing instead of as a retrospective valuation. This group needs education. Our chief appraiser was not allowed to speak to the review appraiser after having 8 requests to revisit a retrospective valuation to determine if a retrospective review was required. None of the additional requests for information had any merit or the information was fully explained in the original report. iMortgage is also among the lowest paying. At this time it is questionable if we will continue the appraiser-client relationship.
If hope this feedback helps!
91 Vicki // Dec 1, 2009 at 12:00 pm
More feedback from our marketing efforts:
Maybe you have read this advertisement from Special Asset Management (SAM): Bank Appraisers Needed - Valuation Opportunities for Bank REO Properties
Amid the current housing market crisis, the nation’s banks and financial institutions need qualified real estate valuation experts for third-party services on their foreclosed and troubled real estate properties, both residential and commercial. This is one intermediary source that matches work with appraisers and other vendors. There is a one-time registration fee. Orders are awarded on a bidding system, so there is no guarantee of work. Appraisers/vendors keep 100 percent of their negotiated fees. OREP members qualify for a significant group discount at sign up. Please visit https://specialassetmanagement.com/UserDetails.aspx?UserType=M and be sure to enter code OREP27 when paying, to receive a $115.00 discount from $250.00 to $135.00.
We paid the fee many months ago (8 months or so) and have not received any opportunities. I recently emailed and received this reply (in part): Let me share with you some overall numbers on opportunities provided to our panel. Since June of this year, we have forwarded in excess of fifty (50) opportunities to the panel, in 30 different states. The quantity is varied–August was an unusually strong month with 23 opportunities forwarded, while October and November only provided a handful of opportunities. By all accounts, home sale activities for distressed properties are expected to greatly increase early in 2010.
50 opportunites since June and today is December 1st? Not great numbers.
I like to believe this organization is legitimately trying to provide a service for the money received. I hope they are successful.
Be leary in spending $250 or $135. You may not receive any opportunities as we have not.
I hope this feedback helps!
92 John // Dec 11, 2009 at 4:36 pm
I just got off the phone with a major AMC. I called them to complain that it doesn’t matter how fast I text them back for an assignment, it has already been accepted by another appraiser. I got five text messages in the last two days and didn’t get one assignment. I complained that every time they text message it costs me $.15 and that I wouldn’t mind paying the $.15 if I got an occassional appraisal. The woman said that the way they assign appraisals is, when an appraisal comes in the put the address in their computer and all the appraisers within a certain radius gets a text message. First one to text back gets the assignment. I told the woman on the phone that I didn’t think it could be any worse than that. I was told that what I should do is get a PO Box in a busy area and they could feed me work that way. They are already doing that with a few appraisers. She told me that she thinks that I am nasty and that is why I not getting any work. She said they want to have a mutual friendly working situation and that by being nasty it was making it hard for them to assign me work. I said you want to talk nasty, I did two appraisals for your company and I am waiting over 60 days to get paid a lousy $210 an appraisal. She hung up on me. Anyone who thinks that this AMC is a good thing, is out of their minds. After twenty-five years in the business I think it’s time for me to find a new profession.
93 Ken Maurer // Dec 23, 2009 at 10:26 am
I hate to say it but we knew this was coming especially with all the mortgage fraud during the real estate boom. AMC’s have been around as long as I have been appraising, 21 years. Appraisers are a funny bunch, if we had a strong lobby group (sorry appraisal institute you dropped the ball) maybe we could have been involved in this transition. Were we tired of lender pressure, yes for the past 20 years!! But all we do is complain. If every appraiser refused to work for AMC’s paying the low fees, than we would control the fees and our destiny.
94 bryan // Jan 9, 2010 at 10:10 am
its ashame that as appraisers we are willing or more correctly if we want to continue doing appraisals we have to put up with amc’s. amc’s are nothing more than what use to be internal appraisal departments at the banks. now the banks that own these amcs are profitting off of our industry and they aren’t even licensed appraisers. nice business model. they are collecting appraisal fees and they supposedly want an independent appraisal!?! what a joke our industry has become. until the banks get their hands out of our pockets im ashamed to say were are nothing but form fillers.
this is corruption plain and simple and our elected officials allow this to continue and voted on allowing this sytem to take hold.
the american consumer will not stand for this and change will happen.
95 Jim // Jan 14, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Yes their are good amc’s out there, Quantrix comes to mind. Their are also bad ones, Lincoln Appraisal for one. Constant pressure to hit the value their clients, such as Crecent Mortgage, needs.
96 Mark // Jan 25, 2010 at 5:24 am
I have been in the profession for over 20 years. I could have made at least twice the amount of income I have over the years but my constant refusal to hit numbers, inability to not adequately describe the property (ie: deferred maintenance, external issues, etc), not allowing others to choose the comparables, etc. So I hear now that the AMC’s are here to solve the issues, to make a system that allows the appraisal process to truly work. Well…… this is how my 20 years of experience, hard work, ethical behavior is be rewarded….. the amount of work that I am getting is down over 66% and the fees that are being offered to me is down about 25-40%. All the client relationships that I built over the last 20 years is gone. The lenders that wanted a good ethical, hardworking appraiser and would pay a fair fee for that experience and ethical behavior can no longer choose me over the guy that has little to no experience or was a local appraiser that any lender that cared about not getting crap appraisals would stay away from. It’s funny, these AMC’s will grade your report, post your turn time and than treat you like you are some form filler and tell you how to do your job. It just blows my mind sometimes when I talk with a reviewer and learn how they think an appraisal is completed, their complete lack of an understanding of the appraisal process. You can do a complex appraisal, really utilize your experience, knowledge and intelligence to provide them with a high quality appraisal and if there is an angle in the picture they don’t like, a comment that some reviewer at the amc (out of the blue) wants in the report you will get a grade of like a 7 out of 10. So some hack appraiser can slap together some report, could use inappropriate sales, really be off the mark as far as value and not truly describe the property and if the reviewer likes the angles of the picture and doesnt deem they want some additional abitrary comment in, than wow, he gets a perfect score of 10 out of 10. I could go on and on of how this system is so flawed and how it truly is killing the industry and I am sure we will get back to some common sense one day but I bet you there will be far less good appraisers around. God help us all.
97 George C. Jalil // Feb 3, 2010 at 9:14 am
I have been a residential appraiser since 1981.
The National Association of Realtors has an appraisal designation RAA. If more appraisers would join NAR or if the Appraisal Institute would affiliate itself with NAR we would then have a very powerful voice in Washington.
Realtor’s interests are always very strongly represented by NAR. If appraisers had strong representation we would benefit greatly. I do not think it would solve all the problems but it would make sure our interest were defended in a powerful way.
NAR for appraisers is like having a big brother in a school yard full of bullies. Its that simple
If you want to know what one little appraiser can do, Join NAR’s appraisal arm now!
Will this ever happen?
well I can dream can’t I
98 Jeffrey Key // Feb 4, 2010 at 6:13 am
I have been told by AMC personnel and personally experienced AMCs NOT using certain panel appraisers.
In seems they do so cause they don’t hit client’s required value!!!
(now of course they won’t tell you this - you just mysteriously stop getting work after the client questions the value on your appraisals)
And if the client complains about the value, the AMC requires numerous explanations from appraiser to explain value (sending you a msg).
I NEVER SEE THIS QUESTION ON ANY AMC SURVEYS…HMM..
Anyone else experience this?/
99 Mary Thompson // Feb 4, 2010 at 8:12 am
First thing I want to say…..Those appraisers that called in wanting to know what HVCC stood for!!! They need to get out of the business today. That is just plain scary!
As for HVCC (home valuation code of conduct) for those who want to know….LOL..
I am all for paying appraisers their reasonable and customary fees (as long as they produce a credible and informative report) and forcing AMC’s to follow suit, because most of them only look for those appraisers who will take the lowest fee. I know because I never get work from many of the large companies as my fees are not low enough..forget about my expertise or quality reporting.
I also believe strongly, those who stand to gain with the closing of a loan, ie: loan originators should NOT be allowed to order appraisals. We are going backwards if they do. They will go back to the game of pressure and giving assignments to those who produce the values they want.
HVCC is surely not perfect by any stretch, but since then we have seen a huge reduction in calls wanting to know what a property will appraise for before they even send a report. The good ol comp checks are a thing of the past, not to mention against USPAP. Desk reviews are now my offerings for those wanting an idea on value without paying for the entire report.
I think the movement toward using appraisers who are familiar with and who live in the same area of the homes being appraised is perfect. I think if you live and work in a certain city on a daily basis, you should be the first one they consider to do that appraisal, it only makes sense. We should not be driving 30+ miles to a property if there are others who live and work in that area all the time.
There of course are exceptions, but gone should be the days where appraisers travel all over gods country doing reports in areas they really have no clue about.
Thanks for letting me vent
100 Lori // Feb 4, 2010 at 10:15 am
Just watch this - it says it all and humorous.
Hitler on HVCC and AMC’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDUpXwoj5Ck
101 Dan // Feb 9, 2010 at 7:48 am
Instead of fighting the AMCs, we should be pressuring our state governments to regulate their fees thusly:
Fee split with 20% maximum going to the AMC. That way, we use their influence with the lenders to put more money in our pockets.
102 Ed // Feb 17, 2010 at 10:33 am
You a-holes that work for amc’s are destroying this profession. With the amc it’s a race to the bottom with their fees. When the cost of an appraisal is the same as an avm, guess what valuation will get chosen. You’ve all chosen to give this profession less than 2 years, maybe less than 1 year. You’re all idiots. The HVCC is ILLEGAL!! Don’t you know that? Why do you want to make deals with a criminal enterprise? Make the HVCC legal first if you want to make deals. I’m ashamed of you, going for the fast buck and guaranteeing you won’t have a profession in a year or 2. You are the problem with amc’s.
103 George // Feb 18, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Referencing back nearly a year ago; I came across the AMC Solidifi and its claims of full fees, etc. Filling out forms is a no-brainer but as a “tag” I added…”now how about some orders”? The answer astounded me. Their clients (lenders) had rosters of approved appraisers but “maybe” an opportunity might arise for me to do an appraisal! I asked the obvious question…”why are you soliciting new appraisers?” Never got a response nor can I figure out their game. If you want names of AMCs that really suck try these…E-Appraiseit, IMortgage, LSI. All had once had a nice reputation and were quite professional. They are now as professional as that corner in your town where you don’t stop for red lights!
104 George // Feb 22, 2010 at 6:38 pm
I just realised that this rant was supposed to be about rating AMCs yet in however many sob tales; not many appraisers were willing to name “names”. I can only conclude that you are talking out of the side of your mouth and stuffing those $175 checks in your shirt. Unions, strikes…what a joke! Half of you can’t even spell but you want to “negotiate”. Don’t you get it? The AMCs are laughing at you/me/us. I’m outta here!
105 salvo // Feb 27, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Hey George, were all here venting, not writing reports, otherwise Im sure my fellow appraiser’s would be much more diligent, profession, and careful with their spelling. By the way, you may want to consider spell check, REALISE is spelled with a Z not S.. I guess we all make spelling mistakes during the mist of venting out. Lets stick to the real issues here, your insults are useless.
106 George // Feb 28, 2010 at 6:22 pm
And the real issues are what, Salvo?
(Guess I can’t resist looking at a train-wreck…and I get a 99% in spelling). And use “professional” instead of “profession”…btw!
My point was/is this profession is dying. Every other entity in a real estate transaction wants appraisers to go away. The other players are doing a damn good job of getting it done.
Mr. Cuomo and his HVCC seem headed for the statehouse in NY and who knows where after that?
How are you gonna stop that train? You gonna have a cookout?
107 Mike // Mar 8, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I have to agree with the majority of the rants on this site. Unfortunately, the appraisal industry has been taken over by the AMC’s. I have never worked for an AMC because their “Mafia” style cut is ridiculous! At the moment I’m left with one full pay customer, which is a local credit union. I was working w/ 15+ clients prior to HVCC. Sadly,these folks are now all out of business. What I want to know, is what can be done aside from refusing work from AMC’s? I hate to throw away the career I’ve built up over the past 15 years, but the income just isn’t there anymore.
108 The Opinionator // Mar 9, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Looks like this dialogue is running out of steam - I see longer & longer time lapses between postings. Probably the reason is that everything that needs to be said about AMC’s has been said.
But, one major point that I don’t think has been raised is that AMC’s cost the CONSUMER hundreds of dollars over actual appraiser fees. No-one cares about us (the appraisers) - but politicians have to be on the side of the consumer and that’s where we need to concentrate our efforts.
Not how are AMC’s bad for us, but answer the questions, “Are AMC’s bad for the public? “If so, in what way?”
Then “How can we convey those concerns to the government?”
“How can the implementation of HVCC be changed to protect the public”.
It’s my opinion that you can’t do a thorough, professional job for $200.00.
Office, auto, E&O and and other essential expenses take up about half of that, so the appraiser is earning maybe $100.00.
Of course we all want to do a ‘professional’, quality report every time - but low fees and impossible deadlines don’t help at all.
The consumer pays for, and deserves our best product - but AMC’s impede the process.
Once the public knows what their money is being spend on, I’m confident a lot of the problems will go away. We have to do a MUCH better job of getting our message out.
So, “Who you gonna call?”
109 The Opinionator // Mar 9, 2010 at 10:21 pm
A word to Working RE - I would MUCH prefer for these submissions to be displayed “Last first”. In other owrds put the latest submission at the beginning, so we don’t have to slide all the way down the page EVERY time. Anyone agree? . . . .
110 George // Mar 10, 2010 at 5:50 pm
Another adventure into absurdity!
One AMC I have a good relationship with (tho they’re ruining it by going from an unlikely 48 hour turn-time to a ridiculous 24 hours. We got into the subject of reviews (desktop) and I heard a fee of $30; better than looking out the window! So I started…at a fee of $15! Any enthusiasm I had went out the window. Then I got an e-mail saying they had a “rush project” (does an AMC ever not have a rush project?) that would require about 10 minutes per report. The fee was $8 per hour! Am I selling donuts…and what are these reports?
But if you do 500 per month; that’s $4,000. This biz has become a total joke!
111 rich // Mar 15, 2010 at 11:18 am
I quit
112 salvato // Mar 16, 2010 at 6:16 am
IT IS WHAT IT IS! STOP BLAMING THE HVCC! The HVCC Rule is NOT the problem. As we know it, this rule was forced upon FNMA, FHFA and BANKS. The HVCC was created to eliminate influence and pressure. Unfortunately, this rule was also created and implemented by the same organizations and individuals who are / would financially, profitably and politically benefit from it—–AMC’s, banks and politicians(from political endorsements?). The problem…we fixed one problem, but created another…AMC’s have become a loophole for Banks to profit, reduce liability on their end and pass it on to the Appraiser. Banks made it clear, their to big to fail(tarp), they are lending the money, they run the market, as long as it is “legal” they are the bosses and call the shots. The majority of these AMC’s are fully or partially owned by these same banks. Some of these AMC’s are also involved in the TITLE / CLOSING services. Some have reportedly manipulated homeowners into utilizing their TITLE services, ATTORNEY’S and of coarse APPRAISERS. This is one of many reasons the code was favorably amended (announcement 09-01) allowing lender’s ownership of AMC’s. For these reasons appraisers have no chance– lawsuits, standard FHA customary fees, etc. etc., would be useless. WHY would anyone with this “legal” power and control give it all up?
AMC’s are a legal business and would be a productive one if done right, but what is irresponsible, unproductive and should be considered illegal is their business practice. Bank/AMC’S are forcing appraisers and homeowners to go through these selected AMC’s for business and loan services. They’re profiting from the appraisers services and discreetly charging homeowners a higher cost than what would be customary. Is this not a form of monopolizing, fraud/non-disclosure? From these discreet charges, the Bank/AMC’s are controlling and paying the appraisers an unfeasible fee and no benefits to do the work. Is this not a form of labor law corruption or taxation without representation at its best? AMC fees(splits) could have been absorbed by the banks themselves instead of stealing it from the appraisers income. After all it is their money they are lending. Does the IRS/GOVT take a split fee for accountant’s services? Who pays the IRS for their services? Considering these are irresponsible or corrupt forms of practice, the appraisal industry and support organizations seem powerless to make any difference.
HVCC rule does NOT state they must utilize AMC’s. Pressure and negative influence could have simply been eliminated by having banks create their own independent non-commissioned appraisal review department to “blindly” order appraisals, provide better trained underwriters and fairly hold all parties equally responsible for unethical behavior (Its called a check and balance system). They could have simply eliminated the needless expense of an AMC and/or created a not for profit, market specific, rotating appraiser network ordering system set up by appraisal software companies /or banks, charging a small annual fee paid by appraiser and lenders whom sign up. This system could have been utilized to distribute orders and leave appraisers responsible to make/collect there own feasible service fees (which would eliminate the AMC payroll costs we are absorbing) and hand in a quality report which is what an appraiser should be qualified and trained to do. This would also have created more Bank, Broker & Appraisal trainee jobs having no effect on the then existing AMC’s. BANK AMC’s business practice’s are really not the most productive, proactive and beneficial solution to the real problem. There are many other alternatives, but the financial benefits for banks, AMC’S and politicians are too tremendous.
Appraisers are now facing profitable/unfeasible fee cuts, unrealistic turn times, lack of benefits, lack of job security (if turn time and fees are not met.), additional schooling /hours requirements, lack of income and the loss of assistant appraisers to absorb the slow months. R.E. transactions are not closing due to inaccurate low appraisal values and delayed closing time, which is usually due to the time lost between the appraisals to the AMC’S review dept to the banks, etc,. Appraisers are voluntarily or involuntarily leaving this job market by the dozens and it doesn’t a great prophet to predict that they will be leaving by the hundreds when the general job markets improve. What will replace the Appraiser, computers? Is this the plan? Appraiser’s only possible hope would be to(by the use of media and pressure)organize and consistently mandated non-negotiable standard feasible fee’s’ along with “responsible and reasonable turn-time” throughout the states. There is no other way. Even so, without change and the empowerment of AMC’s in this industry there will continue to be job losses, a lack of Appraisal Independence and Job Security. AMC’s way of doing business is not going to easily go away, unless it causes a MAJOR unfavorable financial impact on the economy, banks, or politician. Without proactive, responsible and regulated change, BANK AMC’s and their business practice will kill the appraisal industry and continue to complicate the future recovery of the economically dependent American real estate market. It’s just a matter of time before. This once again is about irresponsible greed, power and political endorsements, which is really what got us into this mess in the first place.
113 Seattle Appraiser // Mar 17, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Like you all I watched my hard earned business evaporate due to the HVCC. I recently applied to a few AMC’s. What a frustrating experience! Most are nothing more then fronts for placing orders with the already approved appraisers, too bad for me my clients didn’t turn to this type of AMC instead of subjecting us/themselves to the low fee AMC lottery system.
Not to reiterate what is already mentioned on this blog my additional frustration is that the AMC underwriters have various “opinions” on E&Os that range from where they want comments on the 1004, how they want the form filled out, which boxes to check, when you can put NA, and exactly how they want addendum information stated.
Form filling protocol!!!
THEN they grade and rate you on this crapola. To them a good appraisal is nothing more then a form that is filled out right, turned fast, and hits the number.
We are the mushroom, kept in the dark, feed you know what. When we stop getting orders from them they can blame it on the fact that you didn’t check the driveway box a “no-no” for one underwriter or that you did check the driveway box a “no-no” for the other lender.
In a call to the “underwriting” department about a subject condo project with a high precent of REO/short sales I was told NOT to meantion the current listings of REO’s … I now have an unfavorable rating with this AMC.
Has anyone else faced this frustration?
114 Jay // Mar 19, 2010 at 8:56 pm
So long as we are beholden to the lenders for work we will be annoyances to them, held hostage by the threat of no new jobs. That’s the real pressure HVCC doesn’t address.
It was my experience that some AMCs at least were decent to work with, and as supplements to other client work, until those all died last year - or were shut off by HVCC. Landsafe was decent (”the Cadillac of AMCs” as I heard it called) up until ~last June, when BoA started sending a good proportion of their jobs God knows where. Now volume is slim and the new review system discourages an attempt to defend yourself by penalizing you longer if you do.
115 Carin // Apr 5, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Honestly, I didn’t start out hating the AMCs. Really I didn’t. I understand some of their cost of doing business. They have to market and find new accounts. They have to review reports. They have to track orders. There IS a cost.
BUT, after seeing the way they operate, i have increasingly become discouraged by the entire industry.
These “reviews” they do are jokes. I am amazed if I get a report through with out corrections. Their “client requirements” (let’s face it, they’re all being sold to the same giant), change with the wind, and have about that much logic. One company required every direction and treet type had to be spelled out. Another would make me clarify if the subject had a basement, after it was clearly in the grid that it did not. Response: “add a comment about no basement in the addendum”. WHAT??? They have $5/hour idiots that must be REQUIRED to send reports back to meet some lame quota.
The fees are insulting. We were asked to appraise an 8,000 sq. ft. house on 11 acres (ummmm, can we say NO comps?) for the astronomical fee of….$225. And sadly that is not even close tot the worst scenario we’ve encountered.
We have to turn in reports in 48 hours, and we have been informed, “that’s actual hours, not business” and we are REQUIRED to turn in reports on Saturdays and Sundays. And the clock keeps ticking on holidays like Chrsitmas and Thanksgiving. We saaw a house the day before Thanksgiving, and were questioned why the report was not submitted on that Friday. AUGH!
Loan officers and RE agents still belly ache that their flipped house won’t meet the sales price. We’re asked to “consider” 10 other properties in exclusive areas that are twice the size. And then, when we don’t change the value, we can get black-listed. Oh Yeah!
CitiMortgage has a list of appraisers they won’t use, and for no reason spelled out in the HVCC, they can decide to add you to the list because of “the comps that were used.”
Lenders are just running their own AMCs now, using their own appraisers and skirting the entire purpose of the HVCC…and the worthless HVCC allows it.
I really question what is going to happen to the industry. I think it will look completely different in 5 years. Most AMCs don’t allow trainees to sign, and for the meager fees we get, having a trainee isn’t worth it. Plus, why WOULD anyone want to get in the industry now? It’s not worth it. We’re getting paid crappy and slow, we pay for our own insurance, we don’t get vacations (at least not paid like regular jobs….like the one I quit for this one…sigh), and now we’re treated like minions who have to jump becasue some AMC said so.
And as much as I am sick and tired of the AMCs, I don’t know how to have a profitable business without them…. don’t really know how to do it WITH them, but I digress.
Rock Hard place
Well, I didn’t even rate the AMC’s, just whined about them….
Oh well, that’s about all I can muster today.
116 ventura county appraiser // Apr 8, 2010 at 10:27 am
after 30 years in the business, i have seeen alot of developments in the appraisal profession. much has been driven by circumstances in the market, ie licensing, e/o insurance, merging of professional appraisal groups, various appraisal standards etc. this latest development of “AMC’s” is a reaction to what the RE market has gone through in the last 3-4 years. Looking forward i really don’t see the AMC continuing to be a viable function when the RE market returns to a more normal condition. Right now they can offer LOW fees and quick TAT with HEAVY handed underwriting because market volumne is low and some appraisers have little choice. However, when the market returns to normal, AMCs will not be able to handle the step up in appraisal volumne. bottom line I really don’t see how AMC’s will survive when a normal market returns. I recently got a request from a AMC that wanted an appraisal on a multi-million dollar beach property in Malibu, CA for $225 and 3 day turnaround. Pretty laughable….i quoted them a fee of $2,000+ and 3-4 weeks. i have not heard from them for weeks but I’m sure they got somebody to do it…….now that’s even more laughable
117 Terry Shannon // Apr 15, 2010 at 8:55 am
I only read a smattering of the above comments, so I may be repeating some things stated in them. If so I apologize.
AMCs have long been the bane of many appraiser’s existence, but it has thus far, for me at any rate, been a losing battle.
In the Indianapolis market, there is little choice. Virtually all of the major lenders in this market use AMCs.
The ONLY advantage I see coming from working through an AMC is that they do serve as a middle man, the appraiser does not have to deal directly with irate loan originators, buyers, sellers, realtors, etc. Any such calls I get, I refer back to the AMC.
But the cost to us in lower fees is hardly worth it. If one works exclusively for AMCs, one must complete perhaps 50% more work per week/month in order to earn a living. And, as alluded to above, there is the added pressure of expected 24 to 48 hour turn times and all the “corrections” that come from their reviewers who often invent things to nettle their appraisers with either to justify their existence or just to salve their egos.
Keep in mind that many AMC reviewers are essentially failed appraisers.
Under current circumstances, appraisers have become pretty much the low man (or woman) on the totem pole. We get little respect and have virtually no political clout. We are, more often than not, the scapegoat.
Taking almost any appraisal class for continuing ed basically serves as a lesson in all the ways we can lose our licenses, get sued and/or get arrested. Appraisers essentially have no advocates. No one advocates on our behalf - not the Institute, nor any other organization. All they do is serve as a conduit for all the rules and regs that come along ad nauseam from Fannie, Freddie, HUD, VA, the AQB, the ASB, USPAP, etc. It is rare that anything is ever challenged on our behalf.
The rise of AMCs has further stripped us of any power or respect we may have at one time had. Now, we are told to bend over, and all we’re expected to ask is “How far?”
118 Therese Garrity // Apr 22, 2010 at 10:11 am
I am in Cook County, Illinois and I was told by one AMC that we have the one of the highest concentration of appraisers in the US. I believe that this is contributing to our appraisals woes; AMCs can pay low fees and still get an appraiser to accept the work. If you live in an area with fewer appraisaers, count your blessings (and your higher fees!).
119 Therese Garrity // Apr 22, 2010 at 10:13 am
Also, when I first started accepting AMC work the fees and client expectations were reasonable… Now, fees are lower and clients want more work for less pay.
120 Stan The Man // May 7, 2010 at 12:31 pm
OK, We all wrote letters and made all kinds of comments about AMCs. But where is the List and rating for the AMC and what they pay. Until we bring this list so all can see it we will all keep getting screwed by bad AMCs.
121 unknown // May 22, 2010 at 5:16 am
E-appraisite= fees succck ..staff sucks .. paid 160-200 for 1 family, 250 for 2-4 fam –took a few and requested to raise fee… 300 for 1 fam 475 for 2. they said I would be place from prefered status to fee status… never saw another order again…
LSI– fees . blahhh..great staff but was told 225 for 1 fam and 350 for 2-3 fam.. they can not pay any more than this??? lots of extras. a little less hassling with turn times.
Quantrix…. pays somewhat better than LSI…easy staff to get along with.. found them to give the least issues with turn time but very quick to cut you off if you get behind with turn time…(no security in this business).
imortgage… ridiculous fees… they only allow you 3 hours to accept reports before it is canceled…???
not sure about landsafe… heard they pay somewhat better…but no longer accepting appraisers?? 3 years now??
tried some unknown amcs… some never received any orders after hours of paper work application…some turned out to be appraisal companys pretending to come off as amcs offering similar fees.. pithetic and shameful to this industry…
merc network… pay best… takes a small fee 13.00 but overall worth it. little hassle with turn time, I beleive they understand the works ins and out of this industry on an appraisers business perspective regarding P&L , expenses and survival at first hand better than others. Give them plenty of credit for trying..
….These are still unfeasable fees to stay in business considering the additonal expenses we now encounter along with lack of paid benifits and slow times period that should be absorbed with reasonable and higher paying feasable pay. I feel the banks should be paying the amc’s for services and amc’s should leave the appraisers fees and collections up to the Individual Appraisers… no reason to “shake down” appraiser for there hard worked income.
122 Ms. D // May 28, 2010 at 9:04 pm
I’m afraid AMC’s are here to stay. So, we have to figure out how to live with them and ultimately (hopefully) make them work for us instead of feeling as though they are the enemy.
As to the original purpose of this blog:
Rels is good –not the highest fees but reasonable. Excellent time in paying and direct deposit.
I have heard good about LSI, as well.
I still have a few lawyers and tax grievance work here and there + a little AMC work and I am hanging in there.
Lori Davenport–Thank you for all your information and opinions. Yes, I totally agree that Brokers should not be doing BPO’s—it’s technically illegal. APO’s (Appraiser Price Opinion) should be created and utilized.
Dan–Fantastic idea! AMC’s should only be able to charge a set percentage (i.e. 20%) of the total fee. So that if they are going to tack it onto the appraisal fee at least the appraiser gets a reasonable fee by default of the AMC’s greed. Again great idea!
Also, all states should pass a law that says appraisers have to put their fee in the report–that would help us out greatly. Getting the public angry would make changes come more quickly.
I have had many conversations with those that have recently had appraisals (that I did not do) and they came out and asked me why appraisal fees have recently gone up so much–up to $500-$775??? I let them know it would be luck if the appraiser (who did ALL the work) got even $280 of it. I did not do the appraisal and so I’m not obligated to keep quiet about this “dirty little secret.” There should be transparency in regard to all the fees a borrower pays for any real estate transaction.
But none of these laws or regulations of AMC’s will happen until we get representation in Washington DC. Getting the public angry over inflated fees that do not even go to the professional doing the work will do some good, but ultimately we need A REALLY LOUD VOICE in DC.
Who shall be our voice?
And how much are we willing to pay to support that voice?
123 George // Jun 3, 2010 at 7:12 pm
FYI (if it is news) there’s a scam going on with something called AMC Appraisal Network (1-888-519-4447). They promise appropriate fees (NJ _$300-350) and 1 order guaranteed within a month of applying. So I bit for $129…and NOTHING happened. There are no call backs…orders; just wonder at the cost of the website. Pass it on.
124 unknown // Jun 8, 2010 at 8:20 am
I really dont get this forum…all I hear is complaints about fees and turntime , how we should unite as appraiser, but I only see two postings regarding fees and AMC ratings…what are the others afraid of, competition?? How can we move forward if every man/women is looking out for there own…If we all post our true fees per amc, state as well as ratings, maybe we can get a step ahead of ourselves and begin taking some control. There is no unity in this appraisal business, we are still in a competive state of mind… lets start posting!
125 h // Jun 8, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Here is another one to beware of. It is called “Appraiser’s Advantage”, they charge a yearly fee of $349 and promise they have plenty of work in your area, and not enough appraisers. They promise you a full fee for your work, and then after they get your annual fee, you get no orders, and they won’t return your calls.
126 Cat // Jun 8, 2010 at 6:47 pm
Fine, lets name, names, Appraiserloft in San Diego. This company states on their website how appraisers do not need to send invoices or keep track of what’s owed to them because they do that automatically and send checks every 15-30 days. That is an out right lie. They hold on to your money, to keep you in their back pocket in case they need something else from you. It takes 3-6 months to get paid on any individual appraisal and not without a lot of begging for it. I won’t accept anymore work from them and neither will every other appraiser I personally know because of the same experience. How is that ethical? How is that customary or reasonable? How come the State Agency that licenses us can’t help? Who does Andrew Cuomo think he is? He does not know this industry!
127 Scott Wishart // Jun 11, 2010 at 7:53 am
I’ve been a licensed appraiser since 1996. A retail banker for 12 years before that. Worked with nearly every AMC imaginable over the years. They’re all in it for the same thing we are, maximize amount of $ they can earn. Though in their case it seems more like a shady skimming/kickback type operation. How much are YOU willing to pay, or refund, or kickback, to the AMC to receive assignments?
Here’s something I haven’t read much about here. the fact is….
Lenders LOVE the HVCC, for the mandatory AMC “firewall”. Banks had a choice: Either A: close down their appraisal ordering/tracking/compliance department, saving hundreds of thousands of dollars in salaries and benefits. or B: “spin off” their appraisal ordering department into “independent AMC’s” and turn them into a profit center! It’s a win-win all the way around for the banks (again)!
I currently only accept work through one AMC, RIMS. With RIMS they send out requests for bids, typically you have 1/2 a day to submit your bid. I always bid full fee (for my market) and have always received full fee (from the originating lender not RIMS). RIMS is truly a “pass-through” type AMC. I have never paid RIMS any fees. This is how it should work. I am paid every cent of my bid, nobody (but my rich Uncle Sam) takes a cut of my hard earned dollars.
My experience with the rest is like everyone elses. Ridiculously low fees, short TAT’s, and moronic AMC staff.
128 P. Joseph Siematkowski // Jun 11, 2010 at 8:17 am
As we as an industry move forward we must keep in mind that within the real estate field we appraisers are the lowest in the food chain.
We have been blamed for all of wall street’s corruption and cratering of the housing market.
With trillions of dollars lost lenders are now attempting to recoup these loses by exacting minutes amounts of monies from the lowly appraiser. No one is coming to save us !!!!!!!
129 Boondock slave // Jun 11, 2010 at 8:33 am
As and appraiser working in a rural area i have seen it all. AMC’s hiring appraisers from as far away as 300 miles to complete a report for $250.
In New York licensing led to a glut of new appraisers and thus allowed the lenders to spread the weath around. This assured that no
one would be able to make a decent living or save for a rainy day.
Although new regs have been implemented lenders,AMC’s and others have been hard at work making sure that appraisers cannot hire or grow their businesses by playing us one against another.
We are under-represented and until that changes we can expect more of the same.
May be as time goes on there will be so few appraisers left that those remaining will have more bargaining power.
I don’t think I’ll make it. Good luck to those of you who do !!!!
130 unknown // Jun 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm
H, cat,scott, p. joseph, Boondock and the rest. How pithetic, shameful and self-absorbant. Lets read the heading on this forum… Amc’s, rating and fees is what we should be DISCLOSING not complaining about. IF YOUR AN APPRAISER AND WANT TO COMPLAIN AND WRITE YOUR MISERY, THEN GET A HEAD SHRINK. WE CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE BY STATING SOME EFFECTIVE INFORMATION INSTEAD. Otherwise get out of your hiding space and lets begin posting our honest AMC FEES by state and AMC experiences/ratings. By doing so we will simply give your fellow appraisers the advantage and put the AMC’s “low ball thinking” and there own competition at some disadvantage for now. Lets stop holding back our fears of loosing business to other appraiser, stick together and put it all out there for now. There will be plenty of work to go around . Anyhow, Id rather do 5 appraisals at $350.00 than 7-8 at $250.00 any way. Here’s a reality check. Appraisers are the only individuals being financially affected by this. Its ethicaly wrong but legal. Considering, no politician, bank, investor, homeowner will care to stick there nose in this issue because it is not affecting them. The only way to better this is to begin, talking, networking and informing each other of better opportunities regarding AMC’S AND FEES. AMC’s NEED appraisers, and when they begin loosing appraisers to their own competition, their only atlernative will be to increase there fees to gain apprasiers!!!!! Just as Lawyers and Accountants know what there going fees are and stick to them, we should begin to do the same.. Honesty, budding, communication and networking is what will help us otherwise we shall accept whats come.
131 PAUL // Jun 12, 2010 at 8:26 am
ITS TRUE AMCS AND THE HVCC ARE RIUNING APPRAISAL!!! RELS AND LSI ARE THE WORST WITH THE RECONS PRESSURE-IT IS A WAY OF GETTING AN INFLATED APPRAISAL! PVC MURCOR ACTUALLY SENDS OUT INSTRUCTIONS WITH THE ENGAGMENT ON HOW TO DO THE APPRASIAL ! THERE ARE TOO MANY AMC’S THAT ONLY CARE ABOUT LOWEST FEES AND QUICKEST TAT (ALL OF THEM). WHY SHOULD THE AMC MAKE MORE MONEY THAN THE APPRAISER THAT DID THE WORK? I AGREE, NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS TO US.
132 unknown // Jun 12, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Ok, Thats great Mr fed up and paul, now lets post info on how much these AMC’s you rated are truly paying you on their fees. This can be helpful and advantagious in many ways to all in this business. Im sure the AMC’s wont like it but who cares.
133 Retired Appraiser // Jun 18, 2010 at 10:00 am
Stop wasting your time appraisers and dreaming of a better day. Face the facts that you are being squeezed out of business. There is nothing that anyone can do about it.
Either you left the business early on and saved yourselves from bankruptcy or you’ll learn the hard way (through bankruptcy).
Grow a brain guys and get out of this flea bitten career??? while you still have 1/100 of your original bank account left.
134 PAUL // Jun 18, 2010 at 4:17 pm
THERES JUST NO WAY TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING AS A RESIDENTIAL APPRAISER ANYMORE. THE ONLY ONES MAKING REAL MONEY (WITHOUT WORKING FOR IT) ARE THE AMCS. LSI AND RELS ARE NO PICNIC BUT AT LEAST THEY’VE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE. THE HVCC SCAM HAS OPENED THE DOOR FOR THESE SUPER LOW PAYING AND UNETHICAL AMCS LIKE QUANTRX, iMORTGGE, STREETLNKS, PVC MURCOR , VALUATION PATRNERS, NATIONS VALUTIONS, AXIOOS, APPRAISRLOFT, CLEAR CAPTAL, ETC. THESE AMCS ONLY CARE ABOUT THE LOWEST FEES AND THE FASTEST TATS, THEY PRETEND IT IS BUT QUALITY AN EXPERIENCE ARE NOT A FACTOR, JUST OUT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE AND MAKE A FAST BUCK THERE. AS LONG AS THERE ARE BAD SELL-OUT APPRAISERS TO ACCEPT THESE TERRIBLE FEES WER’E DOOMED. ITS LIKE THE AMCS ARE ALLOWED TO COMMIT HIGHWAY ROBBERY AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT AND IT’S OK & THE RESIDENTIAL APPRAISER HAS NO RIGHTS AND NO ONE CARES. THANKS TO HVCC THE PROFESSION IS RUINED. AFTER 24 YEARS IVE HAD IT.
135 Bill G. // Jun 18, 2010 at 6:31 pm
any AMC that sends out their low fee broadcast orders is just catering to the lowest common denominator, ie bottom feeders. you get what you pay for.
136 Jennifer // Jun 25, 2010 at 11:12 am
Agreed, PCV Murcor is just the worst!
137 WJ // Jun 28, 2010 at 4:36 pm
The day of the independent fee appraiser is over! How much lower can the fees go? This industry is dead! The HVCC has killed it. Thanks, Mr. Coumo, it’s all your fault!
138 ITS OVER // Jun 29, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Nations valuations services are crooks paying themselves MORE than the appraisier and then taking three months or more to pay. they are the worst
139 George // Jun 30, 2010 at 4:52 pm
An AMC I used to have a mutually profitable relationship with (Fiserv) was just purchased by an Indian group (ISGN) and now all bets are off. Reviews are done in India and I have to review the review. The CSRs, none of whom have english as a first language; have actually called the borrowers to ask if I’ve called them yet. They always mention 24 hour TAT (I always say “sure”…lol). The prior management team…erratic at best…seems to have vanished.
The answering service also has extensions for their BPO affiliates! That really turned my stomach. The stench from this business is suffocating!
140 johnt // Jul 7, 2010 at 9:42 am
I agree George, I just dropped ISGN as they lowered fees on top of everything else. They are an embarrassment but not all AMC’s are like that. I do work for several AMCS . Never once have I had any pressure, rarely an addendum or had to make any promises for kickbacks. While they pay average of $100 less per appraisal I can decline what I want and I never have to run down a payment. It works out about the same when you consider all the time spent on collections and getting stiffed.
141 Thomas Frye // Jul 13, 2010 at 9:26 am
I agree that AMC fees aren’t the best. However, AMCs have opened the doors of the good ol’ boy network to allow competent appraisers that have been trying to do bank work. I have been appraising for 17 years and I have seen lenders defaut to the good ol’ boy network on numerous occassions even though the quality of the appraisal work is pitiful.
142 JeremyHallAppraisals - CO // Jul 21, 2010 at 2:16 pm
If the AMC’s want to promote lower earnings, they should start with their own exorbitant expenses. The market rate for an appraisal is what the broker charges the consumer. AMC’s should bill separately. Lenders should mandate the appraisers bill be remitted, so they know how the AMC is handling their consumers money!
143 Mike Troccoli // Jul 21, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Am I dreaming or did the new financial reform bill that was signed into law effectively kill the HVCC? Check out this link
http://www.klgates.com/newsstand/Detail.aspx?publication=6554
144 George // Jul 25, 2010 at 10:07 pm
This newly passed legislation might save appraising but, if ignored (more likely) will kill it. Let some GED scholar fill out the form. It doesn’t seem to matter what’s in it.
The appraiser is the key to all residential loans but is paid the least and treated like dirt. Meanwhile, some part-time realtor fills out the MLS form incorrectly, pushes garbage comps at the appraiser and picks up $4500 on a $300k house. I am sure in the wrong end of this biz.
145 George // Jul 25, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Thomas Frye…please re-read your message and clarify what you are talking about!
Are you a good old boy…an idiot…or somewhere in between?
146 DONNA // Jul 28, 2010 at 11:05 am
Quantrix bought by First American OOPS! they call themselves Core Logic now.. It’s a disguise…. so they are not associated with the EAppraisit lawsuit in the works involving WAMU bank. Anyway Quantrix/CoreLogic aka First American pays $187.00 for a full appraisal and if you don’t agree off the list you go. So much for customary and reasonable fees.
147 George // Jul 29, 2010 at 5:44 pm
AMC Appraisal Network; which I alerted you all to; is now suspended from the internet…and I did get my money back!
148 WILLIAM R // Jul 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm
EAPPRAISE IT PAYS $165 FOR A FULL APPRAISAL IN MY AREA BUT NO AMC IS WORSE THAN PCV MURCOR, THEY ARE THE WORST EVER. TOTALLY UNEHTICAL BOTTOM FEEDERS.
149 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Jul 30, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Thomas Frye ……….what????? Im hoping you dont write reports as foggy as your comments. Your in the wrong business pal.
150 Gary M // Aug 3, 2010 at 4:10 pm
anyone know In House??
151 Jim // Aug 9, 2010 at 8:23 am
Experienced appraisers are leaving the field daily - the environment is just so different than what they have been used to (low pay, increased scrutiny, basically more work for less pay). Lenders are increasing placing appraisers on their blacklists - many cases basing it on appraisals performed 4-5 years ago - during a retrospective review as the borrower is now defaulting. AMCs are removing appraisers from their lists for a myriad of reasons that are not even quality related (requesting higher fee too often, complaining of not being paid on time, etc.). It is almost impossible for a trainee to get their experience now days and with all the news lately regarding the lower fees, there are a lot less people getting into the field. Do the lenders and AMCs actually believe there is a never ending source of appraisers out there that will bend to their will? This is simply a numbers game, like anything else, and if fees do not increase to a “reasonable” level again, then there will not be enough experienced appraisers left to fullfill the industry demands. So, what I see is even if the new legislation never has the teeth to make the lenders and AMCs pay higher reasonable fees, they will have to eventually due to simple attrition. After 25 years of appraising, I’m just not sure I want to hang in there until this happens. I will however give it a few more months to see what, if anything, this new legislation actually changes.
Oh - AMC ratings - almost forgot….until they raise their fees, non of them are worth a Sh#1!
152 Kelly R. // Aug 13, 2010 at 9:01 am
Valuation Partners is the MOST unethical AMC around. Avoid this AMC like the plague, they are terrible to work with.
153 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Aug 23, 2010 at 1:36 pm
NY; bkly, queens, kings, richmond, nassau, suffolk,
LSI and Corelogic:
1fam & condo/coop $275.00
2-3 fam- 425.00
4 fam- They try to push 425.00 -450.00
Exterior- 250.00
Landsafe:
1 fam/condo- 285.00-295.00 depending on area bkly usually the higher
1 fam/condo- over 500k- 340.00-375.00
multi- 495.00-520.00
over 500k - 570.00-595.00
Exterior- 240.00
FHA +50.00
Here are actual fees accepted by these companies. Any appraiser currently accepting less is an idiot…any appraiser currently accepting and getting more is an hipicritical idiots for keeping it to themselves and not sharing this info as part of the solution to help stop low fee hardballing in this industry… These fee’s by all means are yet not enough to keep us in business, but we need to stick together as one!
with some exceptions such as complex properties etc. , minimum customary and reasonable fees to stay in business, cover slow month and time off, pay insurance and expenses, without antisipation or any retirement savings should be as follows;
1 fam 350.00
2 fam 500.00
3 fam 550.00
4 fam 600.00
FHA +75.00
Exterior 275.00
OK, to those of you whom are getting less
By the way…I just tried to refi with citibank(mngt co are LSI, rels etc)….the loan officer told me I would be charged $425.00 for a 1 family appraisal… this tells you how much we as appraisers are being shaken down.
154 ANTHONY // Aug 28, 2010 at 9:18 am
NATIONS VALUATIONS SERVICES ARE REALLY INCOMPITENT. THEY KNOW ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING ABOUT APPRAISAL, FNMA GUIDELINES, OR USPAP AND DONT CARE ABOUT IT. THEY PAY THE LOWEST FEES IN THE INDUSTRY. THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY IS A JOKE TO NATIONS VALUTIONS AND JUST A WAY TO MAKE MONEY BY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF APPRAISERS. SOMEBODY SHOULD INVESTIGATE THEM, THERE CROOKS.
155 Marsha // Aug 30, 2010 at 8:59 pm
I am too new to rate any AMCs. However I have not accepted any assignments for less than $300, which I pray will help the appraisal industry. And I am not making enough money to do quit my other job and do this full-time.
156 mark // Aug 31, 2010 at 11:25 am
agreed about Nations Valuations, they are so clueless. i don’t think they even have any appraisers working there. they have no respect for theappraisal industry.
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