Appraiser Talkback Blog

50 responses so far ↓

• 1 Regina Hoover // Feb 15, 2010 at 8:52 pm

  Personally, I feel like they put this language in there to appear to appeal to appraisers, beacuse it’ s basically dead weight. Unfortunately, what has happened , is that due to the implementation of HVCC on May 1, 2009, what is considered a “customary and reasonable fee” is now much lower than it ever was. From Who’s standpoint is that judgement to be made? From the AMC’s? or the Appraiser’s? Unfortunately, I think we all know the answer to that question…

  I had an AMC that is locally owned tell me they couldn’t use me because “you charge too much”. I asked them if their goal was to provide a high-quality, well-supported appraisal or if their goal was to pad their pocket. The silence gave me the answer I already knew. The average consumer is now paying more for “appraisal fees” than ever before and appraisers are being paid less for their training, experience and particular expertise than ever before. Unfortunately, those of us appraisers who weathered the sub-prime storm by denyting to do that which was illegal and unethical and have managed to keep the doors open despite HVCC are now being told that their “fees” are too high.

• 2 Regina Hoover // Feb 15, 2010 at 8:54 pm

  Sorry for the typos in the last post..Should have re-read prior to posting. My apologies…

• 3 Robert Coop // Feb 17, 2010 at 7:05 am

  After looking over the “Customary and Reasonable” Fees from the data produced by AlaMode I find that the fees I charge are pretty much in line.
  However. I find it dissapointing that these are the same fees I was charging 5 years ago. All of my expenses have gone up. That coupled with inflation means I am making over 30% less in real dollars.
  Why are we the only industry that is being penalized for the economic melt down?

• 4 Brent Smiley // Feb 17, 2010 at 7:16 am

  I just tell them what my fee is and if they don’t want to pay it I tell them to move on.

  If we don’t stand our ground they will take what they can get we have no one to blame but ourselves. Let them deal with the poor appraisals and the problems that will result.

  So far it seems to be working as I am hearing from some lenders that they have decided to not use the AMC’s and are going back to ordering the appraisals themselves, either directly or through sites like the Mercury network.

• 5 Drew Barnes // Feb 17, 2010 at 8:19 am

  I find that my fees are in line with the findings, except that this data was taken pre 1004MC. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I treat it as if it were a 1007 or 216 or REO addenda. Additional paperwork = additional fee. My clients were fine with this. Then came HVCC and my business has been reduced by 90% because I refuse to work for such ridiculous fees. My fees haven’t increased in 10 years & what is offered now is well below what I made day 1 in the profession. State & or Federal regulation in this matter is great, but WE NEED ENFORCEMENT!!! The lenders, AMC’s & the like continue to conduct business the way they do because there is no meaningful, swift enforcement. Until that issue is addressed, nothing will change.

• 6 Tony Powell // Feb 17, 2010 at 8:20 am

  The problem with most of these posts is that they’re 99% complaints. My question is, “What’s the plan?”
  No-one cares about an appraisers financial problems. The only leverage we have is the ‘Public Interest’
  Consumers might ask, “Why am I paying $400.00 for a $225.00 appraisal?”
  or
  “Why does the appraiser only spend about 4 hours on my appraisal that should take over 8 hours?” (or whatever).
  or
  “How do ‘Appraisals Fees’ affect me?
  “Why should I care?”
  I’m sure we have the talent in our group to pose questions which are more concise & relevant to the consumer than mine.

• 7 Ed // Feb 17, 2010 at 8:39 am

  I really appreciate the efforts by Dave. Great work on our behalf. I would like to add that the fees don’t reflect FHA fees which are usually $50 higher in our area and they don’t reflect the MC form - another $30-$50. This report is a good weapon to use on the AMC’s if they try to say that usual and customary is what they pay.

  Isn’t the usual and customary fee what the AMC charges the borrower though? I’d say it is. Emphatically.

  Tony - you want a plan? How about supporting Cuomo’s opponent in his run for Governor of NY? Think that would get any press? Appraisers, brokers and consumers across the country contributing to Cuomo’s opponent in a state Governors race! Free press to educate the consumer about this dark knight and returning to Cuomo the favor he paid us. Sound good? I’m thinking protest his run in his face in NY on the streets also. The putz will not allow the HVCC to go through due process to make it legal - because he knows it’s illegal! This will bring the HVCC out into the light where it’ll melt away like snow on a hot sunny day and the cockroaches running AMC’s will scatter. I’m sick to death of this HVCC and this Kleptocracy - government of the elite, by the elite and for the elite. Hit them at their weakest chink in their armor - Cuomo’s ambitions. I’ll be starting the $ pledge site soon. 120,000 people signed the petition to get rid of the HVCC and Cuomo ignores it. He thinks it’s working well! Imagine what pledges of $100 from 120,000 or $12 million would do?! I have to laugh at this, giving the putz his due lol. Keep your eyes open for the pledge site.

• 8 Ed // Feb 17, 2010 at 8:54 am

  I also heard Dave Summers of FHA said that he thinks 80% of appraisers need to go. Well gee Dave, maybe if only the best were hired and paid reasonable fees, the bottom 80% would see they can’t make any money at appraising and move on. Instead the AMC’s have it where the most inept and obviously stupid are given priority in assignments. Kind of a reverse Darwinism where the weakest and most inept are the ones that are given preference to survive. Sure makes their AVM’s look good - and that’s the point, right?

• 9 Brian // Feb 17, 2010 at 12:27 pm

  I applaud Dave Biggers intentions regarding fees and alot of other things he has done on behalf of appraiser, however, as noted by other posters the fees are most likely skewed down due to the now required 1004mc addendum which may only be included in a small percentage of his data set. The fees reported are low for experienced appraisers in my area (Virginia Peninsula). $400-$475 for typical URAR with 1004mc is where it needs to be. VA (Veterans Administration) appraisal fees are currently set at $400 including the 1004mc, which sounds like a better starting point than the A La Mode data. Appraisers who work for much less than that are not realistic about the sustainability of their business due to expenses, fluctuations of business income, etc.

• 10 Sandra // Feb 17, 2010 at 2:36 pm

  I had an AMC tell me the other day that the typical fee in my area was between $185-$300. Now, how could an AMC in California, Utah, Pennsylvania, etc…. know what the typical fee is in my area. He must have been looking at pricing in the 1960’s. I live in the rural/mountains of Western NC and there are only about 20 appraisers in the whole area. We know what each other charges for a 1004 and we are all in the $350-$450 range.
  This AMC told me they were reducing their fees across the board by 10% and if I didn’t reply, they would assume I was OK with that.
  I told them that a reduction in my fees, when they are including additional instructions that are sometimes 8 pages long and wanting a TAT of 1-2 days is CRAZY and they could look for someone else, I was not going to agree with such a rediculous notion. This is my business and I will not do business with such BLOODSUCKERS………..
  Well, needless to say, they didn’t like what I had to say. They just said “we are sorry you don’t want to comply with our 10% reduction, but, could you do anything else?
  WHAT??????
  Anything Else??? What do you mean? I am doing everything I can to comply with all your requirements and additional comments>>> What MORE do you want me to do??????
  I will NOT reduce my fees and urge all of you to STICK TO YOUR GUNS and not give in to their pressure.

• 11 Richard // Feb 17, 2010 at 2:44 pm

  I’ve talked to AMCs who insist that the usual fee for an FHA case is $150, “as set by the appraisers.”

  That’s just total BS.

  The VA is always at the low end of the market and surveys lenders in the area. Their fee in Virginia is $400. Most appraisers are charging $400-450 here.

  Oh, yeah, I talked to the LO who referred me to the AMC. He said they are charging him $600 for an FHA appraisal. Their take for “management” is $450?!?!? That’s pretty damn good money for emailing an order and a report.

  We are the licensed appraiser professionals. They need us. Stop whoring yourself. ONLY ACCEPT REAL MARKET FEES.

• 12 George // Feb 17, 2010 at 2:46 pm

  Complaining about fees paid by AMCs is rather pointless as no one cares except appraisers. However, the blatant disregard for any semblance of quality in favor of turn-time is a disgrace that should be made public. Those who pay for appraisals should know where their money is going.
  And why doesn’t this profession have standardized fees so that choosing appraisers is based on talent…not typing speed or cut and paste?

• 13 P. David Rij // Feb 17, 2010 at 3:07 pm

  Great article David. I am glad to see the AMC job posting for the Appraisal Coordinator is being distributed nationally. I have discussed this with several mortgage clients (now ex clients) who have no trouble believing low bidders are getting AMC work based on the poor quality of the reports they receive. They have forwarded reports to me to look at and some are very poorly completed with inadequate research, analysis and reconciliation of the value conclusion. One in particular appeared to have been prepared by an appraiser with no more than a months training and obviously was not thoroughly reviewed in-house because no experienced reviewer would ever let such a report be delivered to the client without significant revisions.

  Thanks for the information on customary appraisal fees. I hope that information makes a difference.

• 14 John // Feb 17, 2010 at 3:39 pm

  Be careful about discussing fees with fellow appraisers. There are Federal Anti-Trust laws on the books that can make it a Federal offense for price fixing. a la mode is doing a great service for the appraisers by compiling fees paid to appraisers. No, I don’t use a la mode

• 15 Aaron // Feb 17, 2010 at 3:45 pm

  Why are the fees not refective of what is being charged currently by AMC’s. AMC’s charge 450.-550. for an FHA report. Why now since their dead weight is not involved in the fee, is the fee reduced. These are the fees that are currently customary and reasonable.

• 16 George // Feb 17, 2010 at 6:14 pm

  I’m not speaking of price-fixing but it is absurd to see the numbers tossed around on here. The AMC that gives me the most business used to be quite willing to up their base fee ($175) for any property that figured to come in over $500k (there was no guarantee either way). A couple of years ago, they requested a fee increase in writing. I went along but found the job re-assigned…and I never got an answer.
  Appraisers getting $350-$400 for a 1004 should be happy campers. I suspect they’re just blowing smoke or not working much.

• 17 Mike Favela // Feb 17, 2010 at 7:00 pm

  This has nothing to do with price fixing. It is all about control and power for the big banks. I was getting $150-$175 fees in 1974 when I started full time a a fee appraiser, and I will be damned if I will go back to those days. At least then, we submitted the report and we didn’t have some $10/hr hack pretending to be a reviewer telling me how to write a report. We are to blame for this because we have been to busy worrying about our fellow appraisers getting more work than us or some other BS, instead of banding together to have a voice. If you think I am full of it, then ask yourselves, why is it that the Mortgage Bankers ramroded the HVCC petetion when we are the ones that this has hurt the most. We cry pretty loud but that is about it. Its time to stop this madness and take back our industry, and quit lying down for these parisites. Quit working for them. Take an HVCC holiday, do no low priced assignments, we all need to get together, raise some money and don’t work for peanuts. We can bring this to a head pretty fast as, there are only so many appraisers and most need a reason to stop having their asses handed to them in the form of a sub-prime appraisal fee. But, what the hell, sub-prime appraisal fees for sub-prime loan fiasco. We are the scape-goats and we need to stop acting like it. Anyone interested in helping organizing a national HVCC vacation, please contact me at the above address. Don’t expect any of the petitions or bills to have any teeth as no votes on the issue will be made until the next legislative session. We have had the help of several lobbyists who worked for the Credit Unions against the big banks, they advised us not to expect much from the bills that are out there or the petitions. He said, its most likely gathering dust on Cuomo’s Desk. So it’s up to us, to take care of ourselves, instead of waiting for someone else to do it for us. The Appraisal Institute included. It’s time to fight, take no prisoners. Don’t tread on us!!!! Come on, What’s it going to take?? Quit worrying about price fixing, worry about how you are going to pay your mortgage, basic necessities and overhead on $200 appraisals. Get mad, quit whining, get to work and organize your group.

• 18 David // Feb 17, 2010 at 9:53 pm

  Do the customary fees reported by A La Mode include only FHA orders? I don’t think so. It appears the customary fee report was done in response to the new FHA requirements although the median and average fees do not appear to be based on FHA orders, which typically have a higher fee by $50-$100 in my area. Relying on median and average appraisal fees by region that include conventional appraisals will typically result in low fees, below the true median and average FHA appraisal fees.

• 19 David // Feb 18, 2010 at 2:00 pm

  Mercury Analytics confirmed the median and average appraisal fees include conventional, FHA (& VA?). Since FHA and VA fees are typically higher than appraisal fees done for conventional loans I have asked the Mercuary Analytics dept. to provide a disclaimer on the “customary fee” sheet indicating FHA and VA fees are typically higher than the average and median fees they report, because their data includes appraisals done for conventional loans.

  Through email I was told this suggestion would be considered and they might also consider posting median and average fees for FHA appraisal orders. Since the median and average fee data appears to be reported in response to the new FHA guidelines it makes sense to tie the appraisal fee information to FHA appraisal orders or at least inform the readers of the reports what the data represents so they don’t assume the fees reported are customary FHA and VA fees.

• 20 George // Feb 18, 2010 at 4:30 pm

  Don’t do low-priced assignments? You mean there are others? I’ve been doing this since 1992, only with AMCs (I didn’t know anyone or any better). I got up to $75k for a few years absolutely busting my butt. I went to the various association meetings, heard the “talk”; never saw the “walk”. USPAP arrived (yawn), new forms arrived (expensive yawn) and I’ve never seen any government regulation…not one… that gave any benefit to an appraiser. What do our so-called lobbyists do with their time? They sure aren’t working on my behalf! This profession/industry is heading towards your C drive and the applicant’s credit score. It won’t work but lenders and even AMCs could care less. There will always be an appraisal fee in the contract…there just won’t be a real appraisal!

• 21 William Pruett // Feb 19, 2010 at 6:51 am

  I received an FHA order from one of the largest banks that own their own managment company with an FHA case number ordered after Feb. 15th. I reminded them of Mortgagee Letter 09-28 and the requirement to meet the customary and reasonable fee for the market area. This would mean my fee is $70 higher than previously “contracted.” They cancelled the order based on fee. I called the local FHA resource center who forwarded me to an “appraiser” on their staff who informed me “customary and reasonable” fees are established by the DE underwriter for the area and this has not changed in the past 3 years. I told her she was clearly misinformed but she insisted she was correct. I would like to pursue this so if anyone has a website, phone number, etc. that will help me find someone knowledgeable on this topic I would appreciate it.
  I agree appraisers must have a plan to deal with the issues we face. If nothing else, we can hold the legislators’ feet to the fire on the very legislation they write. Realtors in my State have a “Bus In” day where they visit the State legislature session. Perhaps this would be a good idea for appraisers? I plan to suggest this to the local appraiser chapter I belong to.

• 22 David // Feb 19, 2010 at 1:34 pm

  Right now “customary and reasonable fees” is a rule without enforcement and rules without enforcement are not really rules. There is currently nothing in place that requires any party to change their current fee structure for FHA appraisal orders.

  You were to receive a fee only $70 below customary and reasonable? In my area AMC FHA orders are typically $200-$250 below, which is why I have never take them.

• 23 Ken Maurer // Feb 19, 2010 at 4:20 pm

  I agree with Tony Powell, we as appraisers like to complain, but what plan of action can we take to make sure our fees are “customary” for the area. One suggestion is to contact the borrower and tell them exactly what they are paying for on the HUD statement for an appraisal and the amount the AMC is getting. If we get the public complaining, than washington will listen. They dont care about us, but if its affecting the voting public in the communities they represent, than maybe someting will get done.

• 24 George // Feb 19, 2010 at 5:35 pm

  This is your profession…your life…and there are 24 responses (from a much fewer number of contributors). Appraisers really appear to be dumb as sheep…include me. All these calls for “action”…and nothing ever happens. The appraisal fee is a miniscule joke among the fees in a realty transfer and yet the deal stops if we don’t think it works. Why are there not 10,000 replies here? Appraisers are stupid and going to tank!

• 25 Tom // Feb 24, 2010 at 7:32 pm

  You are worth what you are paid.

  Those are words that appraisers often respond to with a negative reaction. But, we as appraisers are paid what we are worth, as a whole. The whole I am referring to is our industry.

  I have been within the appraisal industry for more than 25 years and have been in many different positions. Trainee, staff appraiser, reviewer, subprime, regional manager, have run my own fee business, and now work for an AMC.

  And with HVCC in full effect, many appraisers are angry, resentful, bitter, and even find themselves contemplating a different type of profession. I admit, I have even thought more than once about entering some new profession. With all of the new regulations, lower fees, increased demand for additional information, and of course the never ending requests for the two additional comparables within 90 days, it gets to be a bit mind boggling.

  Within the time span of my career, I have reviewed thousands of appraisals. Of the number of appraisals that I have reviewed, many appraisals are not worth the fees that were paid. I know that this statement would anger most appraisers, but it is also very troublesome for lenders trying to determine risk. Let’s face it; there are some pretty good data sources available for free across the internet. Lenders are running this data and scratching their heads wondering why this data was not used. They are wonder why they are paying for appraisals. Hopefully, this is where we come in. We should be answering this question for them before they feel a need to request more information.

  It has been my experience that many appraisals and appraisers often think that they are helping the loan process, helping the lender, or helping the mortgage agent by providing an appraised value that everyone can use. What we often forget, is that we are an auditing function that is in place for a reason. We are here to give the current market value for the property (in most cases). We are paid to determine the risk for a particular lender. Other than that, we are not here to “help” anyone other than our client.

  So, with that being said, in order to provide the current market value, we need to gather data and analyze this data. Now we have technology that does that for us. All we need to do is plug in a few parameters that will pull the data, plug it into our forms, add a few comments and send it on to the client. The problem that I see with the majority of appraisals is, the appraiser may have the most recent and comparable data in the report, but they fail to analyze the data. Reviewers often see six comparables with large gaps in adjusted values and a statement that reads “equal weight given to all comparables”. An AVM could have told the client that.

  Funny enough though, value is not the only thing that the appraisals fail to reveal to the client. What about the site, location of the property, condition of the property, functional or external obsolescence, cost approach, health and safety concerns? Some of these properties can create quite a challenge to appraisers, and what was the fee they were paying for the appraisal? Many appraisers say that they are not getting paid enough to complete a thorough appraisal. They think that the value they are providing is enough. Risk has much more involved than just value.

  We all like to think of “poor” appraisals as appraisals other appraisers complete. For appraisers who have never reviewed another appraiser’s work, please take a shot at it. You will find some significant errors and omissions that may make you scratch your head. I guarantee when you are scratching, you are going to say “now who is the appraiser that completed this appraisal?” And you will remember their names. Some examples are: not disclosing the International Airport 2 blocks from the subject property; overlooking comparables in the same subdivision with the same floor plan because they were not sold within the last 90 days; providing pictures in the appraisal of blatant health and safety issues without commenting; or not providing pictures that should have been attached and explained; making $20/sf. adjustments on homes sold for more than $1 million; stating R1 or residential as zoning when they really have no idea what the zoning is – these are all risk issues.

  Then we get to the cost approach. I am sure the owners of Marshall and Swift are some of the wealthiest people in the world because every appraiser subscribes to their services, right? Then I wonder why the costs for the same type of construction are all over the place? Are reviewers and lenders really not remotely aware of building costs? I understand FNMA is not too concerned about the cost approach any longer, although does that mean we do not have to give it that much consideration? If our clients ask us to provide the cost approach we should be doing a pretty good job of producing results, right?

  With all of the new technology and availability of data sources, we are much more transparent appraisers than we think we are. And names make it around this country about as long as it takes to send an email. So when I say “you are worth what you are paid”, why don’t we as appraisers make ourselves more valuable? Say “NO to low fees”. How can we do that?

  One of the ways we can say no to low fees, is make ourselves more valuable by producing a more credible and reliable appraisal. Good appraisers get more repeat business. They receive a better name in the industry (also gets around as quick as an email), and they become more valuable to lenders. More value requires higher payment. I know appraisers may not think that AMCs pay more for better quality, but in fact they do. And they will repeatedly. As an AMC, I am going to use an appraiser who creates the best quality product, which in turn creates the least hassle with my client.

  If you receive an assignment that has been determined to be a “problem property” do not assume that the AMC will not pay more for the appraisal. They will. If they will not, DO NOT ACCEPT the assignment. If appraisers repeatedly accept assignments for less than they are worth, what does that do to our worth? Do not do it. Are there really single family (1004) appraisals being completed for $175. If appraisers are doing this, they are getting paid what they are worth.

  I also know the old adage that appraisers like to use “I have to feed my family”, or “If I don’t accept the appraisal someone else will”. I can completely sympathize with these two points, and they are great points to make. However, the appraisers that are accepting these assignments are typically creating appraisals to match the fees, as they start rationalizing that “this fair quality appraisal is all they are paying me for, what do they want for $175?” This, of course, lowers the appraisers worth or ranking within the Client’s eyes and then they will move on to another appraiser that will complete the appraisal with better quality which means less hassle to their client.

  I also realize the importance of paying bills and trying to make the type of money that some are accustomed to making. I really think that it is possible to do this by exploring all of the newer gadgets and technology, reviewing all of the free tutorials provided by our software companies, and only accepting assignments we are familiar with. Have you ever noticed it takes twice as long to do appraisals that are out of your area of expertise? Have you ever noticed that some of those difficult assignments you know you should not have accepted for that lower fee end up wasting all of your time?

  In my experience, I have found it to be true that to increase your worth as an appraiser, the most direct way of doing this, is to consistently return good quality appraisals. I am not talking about the good quality appraisals most appraisers think they are returning by filling in the form with all of the best comparables. This is only the first step. Give them more than they are expecting. Mention things surrounding the property that have an influence on value of course. But also mention things that may just be of some concern. Why don’t appraisers tell their client what surrounds the property any longer, because it is not required? Surprise them and give it to them anyway. Why do appraisers not get detailed concerning an issue you know the lender is probably going to ask you about anyway, because it is a summary report? Don’t leave questions unanswered.

  But, the number one issue I think most reviewers and lenders get frustrated with is the lack of analysis leading to a value conclusion. Even in the most common and ordinary appraisals, there is very little in the way of commentary which leads the reader to how the appraiser determined the value of the subject property. Appraisers often put a great amount of time and data into an appraisal, discuss why they exceeded typical adjustment guidelines, discuss why they have dated comparables, discuss why they went further than 1 mile, etc., but then do not tell the reader how they pulled their value estimate from within the range of adjusted comparables. The more complex properties require some lengthy analysis concerning how the value was derived. Even then, many appraisers come up with the standard comment “equal weight given to all comparables”. Isn’t this analysis supposed to be the support of the appraised value? Again, give them more than they are expecting here and I guarantee you will receive less phone calls looking for revisions, more appraisal jobs, and you will get fewer refusals when asking for fee increases. They will know that your appraisal will be worth what they are paying.

  By producing good quality reports, you will have longer relationships with your clients, you will be contributing to building trust between the lending and appraisal industries, you will have less corrections, and you will not only make yourself worth more, you will make the appraisal industry worth more. There are new products being developed by the National Association of Realtors and even by appraisal software companies which are looking to sidestep the need for appraisers.

  Let’s try and be proactive appraisers instead of reactive appraisers. We need to show the lending community that we not only know how to do appraisals, but we know how to read markets, we are familiar with all that is going on in our areas, we know specifically what the zoning is on a property, we have supplied plat maps even though plat maps are not required, we do know building costs, we do know how to extract adjustments, and we do know how to analyze comparables to report a supportable value. Let’s try and answer the questions before they are even asked. Let’s be worth more!
  TS

• 26 George // Feb 28, 2010 at 5:51 pm

  Tom:
  You seem comfortable and a bit pompous with your AMC. You make no comment about 24 hour turn-times (that certainly promotes quality) and requests for fee increases generally range around $25-$50. If the job is turned back; that is noted and rather than getting high marks for my standards, I become a “trouble-maker”.
  And let’s ignore the off-shore reviewers (or even on-shore) that can barely speak english and are grading appraisals by flipping thru a template.
  The 1004MC form is more of a mystery to these clowns than it is to me.
  Better work doesn’t accomplish squat! I have NEVER received a “thank you”, much less a fee increase for a job all parties knew was a ball-buster!
  You are now the all-knowing AMC “advisor”! If you were/are so good; what happened to your private practice; your appraisal shops? You went bust…and sold out…and now you’re preaching that hard work reaps the rewards.
  “Hypocrite” should be on your license plate!

• 27 North Carolina Appraiser // Mar 4, 2010 at 9:02 am

  Hello All,
  I want to comment on a la Mode’s report on “average appraisal fees”. As the office statistic Geek, I always ask, “average of what”?
  FYI, Dave Biggers, Chairman and founder of software provider a la mode, makes money off of all appraisals that go through his system. He charges a flat fee, billed to the appraiser. He probably charges lenders a fee for ordering through the system too.
  He says “his firm has appraisal fee data based on hundreds of thousands of independently contracted URAR assignments from all over the country” and that “The fees are from non-AMC, URAR only, address-validated “real” reports which utilized a la mode’s Mercury Network in the prior 12 months”.
  Well, what do you call a service that facilitates appraisal ordering, requires an appraiser to use their system for delivery when the appraisal is ordered through them, and then charges the appraiser for it? Is Appraisal Port an AMC? I and many others, including lenders think so, and Dave charges more per order than Appraisal Port. If it Quacks, it must be a DUCK!
  In our office we use a la mode softwear because my current analysis shows that for now, it is less expensive of other softwear providers out there for a multi desk office network. At least with last years “special” it was. This year it might be different.
  But, we don’t take orders through his system. Why? because I can’t afford to give him any more money that I already pay to him on a yearly basis.
  And my data shows that Bigger’s reported “average fee” for our area is not correct. Its about 60% of what is really charged. I know this because, our office networks with all the appraisers in our area. First of all, most appraisals being done in our area and really, in most areas are FHA, they have the market share now. Most of the appraisals coming through our office are VA. These are not ordered through his system.
  Secondly, he doesn’t know what we charge because he didn’t consider our fees posted on his system, and he didn’t ask us what are fees are.
  Finally, he didn’t report what his market share is for our area, and probably not for other areas either.
  So, what we need to ask Dave to put his “average” fee into perspective is, “What is your market share”? Again “average of what”?
  The bottom line with appraisal fees should be, what is your usual and customary fee? What do appraisers need to earn to operate their business COMPETANTLY? Do residential appraisers get training and do they know how to estabilish a fee schedule? Or are they at the mercy of getting paid whatever some client / AMC decides to to pay them?
  Real Estate Appraisers are suppposed to have high ethical standards, experience, and specialized training. New appraisers coming into the profession are required to have at minimun a 2 yr college degree and over the next 10-20 years, those that don’t have one will be dropping out. So, appraisers need to ask themselves, do they want to get paid like a form filling clerk, or do they want to get paid for the professional service they are REQUIRED by law to deliver?
  Many appraisers have the same education and responsibility as an attorney. Most appraisers have as much training as a electrician or a plumber. (Mine charges $85 an hour!)Appraisers have way more education, experience, and responsibility than mortgage brokers and real estate agents. Since the real estate agents, mortgage brokers, and attorneys all need residential appraisers to close their deals, why are we expected to make the least amount of the other players? We are the most important player, we should be paid accordingly. General Appraisers are unquestionably.
  Since the single largest purchase any person will make in their life is probably their home, why wouldn’t they want to pay to get the highest quality report on its value?

  Just my two SENSE

• 28 t // Mar 11, 2010 at 8:48 am

  Tom, I agree with your insight of how an appraisal should be conducted. But, the rest is unrealistic and only in your world of appraising. There are hundreds of great well experienced appraisers doing work out there. Your not alone. These appraisers are also complaining about the AMC issues. If your theory was fact, they all would be good. How can you generalize such comments? Please provide us with the names of these particular AMC’s whom will pay feasible fees (that is feasible enough to stay in business and provide) for a good appraisal. We’ll all give it the benifit of a doubt and sign up. I’ll surely keep you posted on the outcome when I give them our fees and ask for reasonable turn-time to perform a quality appraisal. Remember, your working for AMC’s now, Im sure you want them to continue staying in business, what have you got to lose. If you can’t back up your “theory” and prove others wrong, then your just “shooting beans or convinced of this theory from a single amc you’ve had experience with. THEN It would no apply to all. WOULD IT

• 29 Don // Mar 22, 2010 at 9:11 pm

  AMC’S if they survice need regulation if everyone else in the industry has regulations to follow. Why one earth wouldnt the AMC’s. The are being allowed to steal hard earned money from the american consumers and appraisers. I understand the ideal behind this but come on the government has created another problem by letting unregulated AMC’s make there own rules with no one to check up on them. I have allready witnessed first hand value pressure, fee theft from low or non payment, extremely long payment time, unrealistic turn time pressure, etc. How one earth is anyone thinking this is going to lead to high quality appraisals? The housing market does not need any more problems right now. Lets all put our heads together and figure a way to do this correctly. Its to critical to take lightly, spread the word, speak out, its important! Thanks Don

• 30 Bob // Mar 23, 2010 at 4:53 pm

  I used to have my own appraisal business and now I am forced to work for an AMC who is in control of my fees. Is this constitutional??What happened to our basic rights to have our own business and not work through a middleman who is making most of the money doing nothing. They charge the client more for an appraisal and pay us less. Something needs to be done to rectify this absurd situation but appraisers need to come together and unionize or do whatever it takes to regain control of our profession.

• 31 objective1 // Mar 26, 2010 at 11:58 am

  The surveys have revealed average fees per market area. One would conclude that it means average fee for average work. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that for top quality professional service one would have to pay accordingly. It is apparent that many lenders are not interested in quality work judging by the caliber of appraisers they normally choose. Quality work will never be acheived by hiring the lowest bidder then browbeating him into a series of addendums or “corrections” to fit their needs. Notice too that the AMCs don’t recognize nor respect the professional status of appraisers. They are referred to as “vendors” and condescendingly addressed as such. When I hear the term it reminds me of the peanut VENDOR who pushed his little handcart through our neighborhood. And to think the demise all started with licensing. But that is another debate. Have a nice day folks.

• 32 objective1 // Mar 26, 2010 at 12:11 pm

  Help me on this folks.

  But isn’t price fixing a crime?

• 33 Real Issue // Mar 26, 2010 at 8:48 pm

  The real issue is not the Big AMCs. The Big AMCs pay customary fees. This issue is common among smaller non-established AMCs which take advantage of an inexperienced appraiser who is willing to do work cheap due to inexperience or econimic conditions. Sure quality issues will be a issue but the smaller inexperienced AMCs just focus on turn times. Once when a quality issue arises a new inexperience appraiser will get the work. This is a big risk for the consumers, lenders, and the loan portfolio since this type of practice is appraisal fee shopping without factoring geo-graphic competence or overall quality. State laws should be pass on what is customary for a geographical location and the fee should be fixed so smaller management companies wont take advantage of an appraiser to maximize profits at the cost of quality and lack of geo-graphic competence. If management companies are going to manage the appraiser they should also manage quality and be liable for quality issues on the appraisal report.

• 34 An Appraiser // Jun 8, 2010 at 7:39 am

  Currently there is legislation that is supposed to address what AMC’s can pay the appraiser and charge the lender for their services. This is being stonewalled by the AMC’s. The goal of the AMC is to stall any revision to the HVCC that addresses customary and reasonable fees. The have highjacked the profession utilizing improperly trained and supervised trainees. We have trainees in our area that are sponsored by appraisers 300 miles away that have never appraised in the area. Trainees are desperate to get there experience credit thinking once certified / licensed they can go up on their fees so they are willing to do appraisals for a fee split that gives them $75.00 - $100.00 dollars ( I have been told this by several trainees). The supervising appraisers are willing to sign off on these appraisals for $75.00 - $100.00 as they have little more than an hour in the appraisal. AMC’s are shaping what will be customary and reasonable fee’s utilizing these low fee trainees and will eventually quit fighting the amendments to the HVCC concerning customary and reasonable fees once they have a sufficient history in a area of low fee appraisal payments…as this is what they will show they have paid and therefore deem it to be customary and reasonable. I was trained properly by a well respected appraiser in our area and do not believe in cut-n-paste appraisals. While certain information can be imported (neighborhood boundaries, census tract, flood maps, etc.) I approach each and every appraisal as a new individual assignment and re-evaluate the neighborhood and market each and everytime, regardless of how recent the last appraisal performed in the area was. Typically at best I can complete an appraisal in about 6 - 8 hours including inspection, sketching, comp search and photographing, and report preparation. At the customary and reasonable fees as deemed by AMC’s of $200.00 - $250.00 I am at $40.00 per hour or less depending on complexity. I spent 4 years of studying and apprenticeship to get a license (same as many college degrees) yet I cannot get the same pay as other fields. What I find truly amazing is that lenders and the government believe that an AMC making as much and often more for an appraisal than the appraiser for doing little more than taking an appraisal in, assigning it, and sending it back isn’t unreasonable. Instead of punishing the lenders and bad appraisers for their actual misconduct the government has punished every single reputable appraiser in the country with the HVCC. The true effects of the HVCC will not be known for a few more years when a second round of mortgage defaults hits in which AMC’s will be exposed for utilizing unqualified appraisers and having no expertise in identifying bad appraisals in which values were overstated. They will become the new sacrificial goats that the government made the appraisers with the HVCC. The sad part of it is that by then, these unqualified trainees will have manged to get a license and be allowed to practice. Remember, the supervising appraiser is held soley responsible for a trainees work when he signs the report and the trainee is held harmless. The supervising appraisers will be gone by the time it blows up, reputable appraisers will have gone bankrupt or just quit, and the unqualified improperly trained will be left to create an additional housing bust where the banks will be holding bad notes on over-appraised properties. Of course the banks will get bailed out, will have made billions in appraisal fees via owning AMC’s that have cut the price, and will be held harmless because it was the AMC’s responsibility to use quality appraisers and even though they owned the AMC they were not allowed to be involved in the appraisal process. I am all but out of business because I wont work for their ridiculous fees and meet unreasonable turn times allowing them to make as much or more than me for no appraisal experience. All I can hope for is that eventually the same people that shafted me and every other reputable appraiser gets it back 10 fold. Yes, that is heartless as it will hurt innocent family members of these crooks but no one was worried about what it did to our families.

• 35 Cat // Jun 8, 2010 at 8:07 pm

  To Don–Do not sugget unionizing. They would only become the largest AMC . I would like to see ALL appraisers boycott All AMC’s for even one day, preferably longer, and/or never accept an assignment below the customary fee of at least $350. This I know is a pipedream because there are not enough ethical and professional apraisers out there. There are still too many that do a shoddy job on a part time basis. I have been doing this for 10 years and have great pride in everything I put my signature on. I am signed on with a dozen AMC’s and I turn down all assignments because they don’t offer customary fees or turn times. I am fortuante enough to work for a direct lender that does not sell on the secondary market at this time. Appraiser’s should keep in mind that any AMC can blacklist you for any lame reason and ruin your career. Make sure it is worth it. I suggest appraisers google pending litigation between appraisers and AMC’s, especially RELS.

• 36 unknown // Jun 11, 2010 at 1:49 pm

  How pithetic, shameful and self-absorbant. Lets read the heading on this forum… Amc’s, rating and fees is what we should be DISCLOSING not complaining about. IF YOUR AN APPRAISER AND WANT TO COMPLAIN AND WRITE YOUR MISERY, THEN GET A HEAD SHRINK. WE CAN ACCOMPLISH MORE BY STATING SOME EFFECTIVE INFORMATION INSTEAD. Otherwise get out of your hiding space and lets begin posting our honest AMC FEES by state and AMC experiences/ratings. By doing so we will simply give your fellow appraisers the advantage and put the AMC’s “low ball thinking” and there own competition at some disadvantage for now. Lets stop holding back our fears of loosing business to other appraiser, stick together and put it all out there for now. There will be plenty of work to go around . Anyhow, Id rather do 5 appraisals at $350.00 than 7-8 at $250.00 any way. Here’s a reality check. Appraisers are the only individuals being financially affected by this. Its ethicaly wrong but legal. Considering, no politician, bank, investor, homeowner will care to stick there nose in this issue because it is not affecting them. The only way to better this is to begin, talking, networking and informing each other of better opportunities regarding AMC’S AND FEES. AMC’s NEED appraisers, and when they begin loosing appraisers to their own competition, their only atlernative will be to increase there fees to gain apprasiers!!!!! Just as Lawyers and Accountants know what there going fees are and stick to them, we should begin to do the same.. Honesty, budding, communication and networking is what will help us otherwise we shall accept whats come.

• 37 Daisy // Jun 11, 2010 at 7:09 pm

  I agree! I just read the article in Working RE, discussing “customary/reasonable” fees. Realtors are organized with good lobbiests, and appraisers simply are not being properly represented, protected, or considered for that matter. We appraisers CAN get paid what we’re really worth, if we would just get organized within our states. Maybe an appraisers union, because despite what happens with HVCC and AMC’s, if anyone needs an appraisal within a state, and all appraisers refuse to work for less than reasonable feess, than they will HAVE to pay us reasonable fees! Okay, so, lets do it, and do it right. In the article it discusses surveys done for “customary/reasonable” fees for the industry as being anywhere between $259 and $442; now how long before HVCC, have these been typical?? FOREVER, with no common business increases, which business professionals outside the industry seem to be easily implementing for there increased costs, liablilities, etc.. So, let’s be honest here, it’s not the AMC’s, the HVCC, or anything else that’s destroying our worth; its US, the appraisers. Over the past few years of the real estate crisis, the new liabilities, additional education, costs, etc., that have been put on us, our “typical” fees should have gone up, not down. So, how many good, honest, hard working, well educated, well experienced, ethical appraisers do we really have in our industry? Only the few, who REFUSE to be paid peanuts for their work, that is so scrutinized over by everyone else involved in a real estate transaction that is and has been receiving an insane fee and/or compensation for their “services”, which usually is not attatched to any real liability or intense regulation. Just an FYI for those who don’t know, borrowers whom actually pay for the appraisal, are being charged anywhere from $450 to $550 for a full URAR standard, typical, appraisal in my state (CO).

• 38 David Cudworth // Jun 27, 2010 at 9:11 am

  I don’t know where David Biggers is getting his fee sources from but they are way off. I conduct VA appraisals, and the VA did a market analysis last year of what fee to charge for a single family home. The VA pay scale went from $350.00 to $425.00.

• 39 George // Jun 30, 2010 at 5:22 pm

  Let’s try some of my favorites…LOL.
  E-Appraiseit…now Corelogic as they try to stay out of jail; Lenders Service, IMortgage Services (stay by the phone), Nationwide Appraisal Services. These outfits actually seemed to perform a useful service at reasonable fees…but that was a long time ago…and before they went morally bankrupt while driving the dumb appraiser to real bankruptcy.

• 40 Oregon CR Appraiser // Jul 15, 2010 at 3:21 am

  I’m praying that all the good stuff for appraisers doesn’t get stripped out of HR4173 before it goes to senate vote in the next week; the bill already passed the house. Here’s link to what I think is the current bill version and you should check out discussion of appraisal fees on page 2215: http://financialservices.house.gov/Key_Issues/Financial_Regulatory_Reform/Conference_report_final_2.pdf

  “CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEE.—
  IN GENERAL.—Lenders and their agents
  shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised. Evidence for such fees may be established by objective third-party information, such as government agency fee schedules, academic studies, and independent private sector surveys. Fee studies shall
  exclude assignments ordered by known appraisal management companies.”

  Irregardless whether this bill passes or not, it’s time we start fighting back against anti-fair trade practices resulting from HVCC. Here where I live, we’re (finally) planning a local peer group meeting only for appraisers physically located within our 4-county MLS coverage area, to initially take a formal fee poll and to provide a moderated discussion forum for local appraisal issues. We are excluding out-of-area MLS subscribers in this meeting, because we don’t really think they should be considered peers to local appraisers (see USPAP guidance for determining peers in scope of work rule).

  It is always harder to organize larger groups, so my suggestion is to first try organizing a smaller group… even if it’s only 5-10 local appraisers. Initially we plan to hold monthly meetings in the free banquet room of a local buffet restaurant; for a 2-hour no host dinner meeting beginning at 6 pm on the second Wednesday of the month. I think these conditions might resolve cost and time issues that often prevent small groups from initially forming.

  In the old days, it seems like conventional appraisal fees often followed whenever FHA fees were increased and I think that method makes more sense than a current trend of FHA being $50 more than conventional… especially since work/requirements for conventional are now more similar to FHA. Some may say it’s price fixing if we openly discuss fees in a formal meeting, but since I didn’t see anyone calling anti-fair trade foul when HVCC took 90% of my hard earned clients… I’m not going to worry about it. Wording in HR4173 also requires formal fee polls, so I think we’re more than protected when we discuss “customary & reasonable fees” out in the open.

  Considering increase cost of doing business over recent years, and that we have mostly been prevented from charging for the new 1004MC form, and now have more reporting requirements and regulatory scrutiny than ever before, and that we probably haven’t had a fee increase in maybe 10 years (or more) and may not get another increase for another 10 years… I think a standard 1004 fee of $500 for our area is “reasonable and customary”. Considering many local property owners are charged $550 on the HUD 1 appraisal line, a $500 standard 1004 fee (excluding acreage, distant, unusual or extensive featured property) will also save many borrowers $50!

  And after we begin getting paid what we’re worth, we better ALL start doing the job we’re getting paid for! And for those too lazy to do their job appropriately… everyone needs to begin turning in that type of appraiser to your local state board. I truly believe that just 20 bad cheap/fast residential appraisers in a state, can ruin the profession for the rest. In protecting the public trust, I also believe it is each of our duty to either help others become better appraisers or help them out the door. Standardized fees and new rules requiring appraisal violations be reported should also force lazy appraisers out of business and promote quality appraisal work.

  Our group is also going to vote whether local appraisers should require minimum 3 business day turn time AFTER date of inspection. Around here, most of us are fed up with getting bullied by an AMC defined scope of work that dictates reports be uploaded within 24 or 48 hours after inspection; or as LSI requires… uploading on a weekend or holiday. This practice routinely applies inappropriate development pressure on the appraiser and it needs to stop!

  Another issue we will discuss is how to combat certain AMC’s like CoreLogic, who have poorly trained staff and poorly written Talon online software and procedure intended to inappropriately harass appraisers for QC corrections for things already included in the original report; but they won’t move it out of your cue until you respond to QC issues by making changes and re-uploading the report. It’s one thing if there really is an error, but to insistently pound the appraiser for comment on something that is already in the report… absolutely unbelievable.

  I don’t regularly read these posts, but if anyone wants to learn more about how our meeting results go… leave a post here or track me down and give me a call. Max @ OC.NCOPA

• 41 George // Jul 29, 2010 at 6:20 pm

  The CoreLogic/E-Appraiseit connection is a tribute to the absolute “balls” of players in this industry.
  Yesterday, I received an e-mail…with CAPS and bold face ranting about the imprtance of “teamwork”. Who are they kidding! There is no team…there are no partners!
  And the entire page was about turn-time! There was not a single mention of quality…or the importance of such a silly thing.
  There was, however, a threat that if you don’t meet the TAT you will not be getting future orders.
  This is an absolute disgrace to the appraisal profession and the American home-buyer/refinancer.
  Legislation has been passed…and seems likely it will be ignored.
  The arrogance of these “middlemen” who do virtually nothing is beyond comprehension.

• 42 marion // Aug 15, 2010 at 12:33 pm

  To understand Customary and Reasonable Appraisal fees, we need to know the existing and historic Federal usage of the term and how HUD has treated Appraisal Fees.

  HUD’s Mortgagee Letter 97-22 stated that a lender could not charge a borrower a fee for an appraisal that was more than what the appraiser was to be paid. In the same letter it stated that Lenders using service providers could only charge the borrower the fees that were paid to the appraiser, and no more.

  HUD’s Mortgagee Letter 97-46 then states that “the Department will allow the mortgagor to pay a fee for the appraisal which may encompass fees for services performed by an appraisal management firm as well as fees for the appraisal itself. However, the total of these fees is limited to the customary and reasonable fee for an appraisal in the market area where the appraisal is performed.

  HUD’s Mortgagee Letter 09-28 dated September 18, 2009 stated the fee for the actual completion of an FHA Appraisal may not include a fee for the management of the appraisal process or any other activity other than the performance of the appraisal.

  So what we are left with is that all fees charged to borrowers for FHA appraisals since September 18, 2009 have been the Customary and Reasonable Fees for Appraisals, and all other lending appraisals established the Customary and Reasonable for these types of appraisals as these those appraisal fees for conventional lending, as stated in HUD’s Mortgagee Letter 97-46 were not superseded by HUD’s Mortgagee Letter 09-28, which only dealt with FHA Appraisals.

  The current issue stems from the 1997 Mortgagee Letter 97-46’s use of the term “which may encompass fees for services performed by an appraisal management firm as well as fees for the appraisal itself,” and the lack of enforcement and oversight on the part of the FHA to ensure that borrowers using FHA loans were not being charged appraisal management fees as part of the FHA loan package.

  Even the new RESPA (Real Estate Settlement and Procedures Act) allows only the name of the Appraisal Management Company be recorded on line 809 of the HUD 1 and the Good Faith Estimate, further cementing that the fees paid by the borrower are the Customary and Reasonable Appraisal fee, not the fee received by the Appraiser.

  The new Financial Reform Law states that, “i) CUSTOMARY AND REASONABLE FEE.—Lenders and their agents shall compensate fee appraisers at a rate that is customary and reasonable for appraisal services performed in the market area of the property being appraised.”

  For more than 10 years the fee for appraisal management services and any “other” service fees have been hidden from the public because these fees were incorporated as being Customary and Reasonable Appraisal fees. Today there are many groups running around trying to prove that Customary and Reasonable Appraisal Fees are fees that an Independent Appraiser will accept for the work. and are less than the fees that have been charged to the borrowers over the past year.

  But sadly for the Lending and AMC industries they cannot have it both ways. Either the fees that have been paid by borrowers have been the Customary and Reasonable Appraisal Fee without appraisal management or any other fees, in regards to FHA appraisals, or have been the Customary and Reasonable Fee that allowed the appraiser to accept less in order to accommodate fees to other entities in the transactions. Any survey or study presented now that states the Customary and Reasonable Appraisal Fee is less than what buyers have been paying will open a Pandora’s box of potential class action lawsuits from borrowers that were mandated to pay over and above customary and reasonable appraisal fees in contrast to HUD requirements that the fee was not more than customary and reasonable.

  This singular issue could be the prime focus of the new Consumer Finance Protection Bureau, considering the pure volume of residential lending appraisals that are being handled by Appraisal Management Companies.

• 43 Minimum Wager // Aug 16, 2010 at 1:47 am

  Point #1

  Appraisers are treated like miminum wager earners because we have ALWAYS charged like minimum wager earners. But, look at a Realtor that makes thousands, even tens of thousands of dollars on even a single deal and they are brilliant people. Everyone listens to them. Of course, everyone knows what an appraisers job is except for the appraiser. (Just ask a homeowner!) This fact is borne out by the lobbying efforts of Realtors vs Appraisers.

  You (buyer), You (banker), You (homeowner) want to invest in a “long term, non-liquid asset” so you get a professional opinion of present value as defined, but you only want to pay the Happy Meal price tag….GOT WHAT YOU WANTED! Am I the only one who remembers the adage….”you get what you pay for”?

  Calling for a trade group to represent appraisers? What a joke! Where have the trade groups been? AI, NAIFA, NAMA, and others? Appraiser groups have never lined the pocket of one congressman, and it shows.

  Allow me to be the first to say it….appraisal fees should not be based on the end value, but they sure as heck should be based on degree of difficulty, and no appraisal fee should be less than $2,500….do the math…when you’re spending tens of thousands…it’s still a bargain! And, because you are still cheaper than that Realtor that does that oh so accurate BPO.

  Point #2

  Its laughable that FNMA and others find “irregular” appraisal practices and “inflated” values, et al, that have led to the current melt down. It is mind boggling that it is even suggested that the way to fix the mess we are in is through “tougher” appraisal standards.

  Let’s take another poll….

  Ok, every appraiser who has ever caused a mortgage to be a late pay, please raise your hand….

  Every appraiser who has ever caused a mortgage to end up a short sale, raise your other hand….

  Every appraiser who has ever caused a mortgage to end up in default, please stand….

  Ok, now that no one is standing and I can’t see any hands what was the real problem?
  The suits that offered the mortgage schemes in the first place! Schemes like 105% equity lines, 103% purchase schemes, hidden, gauging, and inflated points, backdoor commissions for brokers. I have an idea, let’s set up our underwriting to approve individuals with no proof of income. Let’s have our underwriters approve loans for those that filed bankrupcy two years past. Oh, but like Realtors they have lobbyist lining the pockets of our honorable congressman. Shouldn’t an underwriter be licensed? Wasn’t it the underwriter’s decision to approve the loan the catalyst that led to loan in the first place? Why does an underwriter review and judge my work when they have no idea what the heck an appraisal/market is in the first place?

  There are really, really, REALLY bad appraisers out there, but they didn’t exist in numbers until congress mandated licensing…ironic isn’t it!

  You can’t sue me and hurt me. You can’t take my license away and hurt me. Stop sending me work…you’ll kill me! And ladies and gentlemen, that’s how it used to be! Self regulation does work BECAUSE IT DID WORK!

  Point #3

  Everyone dies and yet we all can buy life insurance even though we will stop making our (life) mortgage payment. Insurance companies do alright.

  Just put me out of my misery and do away with the entire appraisal industry. There is plenty of data to formulate actuary tables for morgtage “lives”. Just charge buyers/owners/borrowers an insurance premium.

  Point #4

  Zillow.com and other sites tell you what you property is worth, but I can’t say you broken down arm pit, or your wall street castle is worth $1 unless I take a vial of my own blood, and offer my first born to the alter like Abraham.

  LONG LIVE ZILLOW!
  LONG LIVE THE BPO!
  LONG LIVE NY POLITIANS THAT RUINED MY LIFE!
  LONG LIVE THE APPRAISER…(well, I was going to say kill the appraiser, but you know….you need him around to punch)!

• 44 Minimum Wager // Aug 16, 2010 at 2:05 am

  By the way…I guess I should disclose that I did paid myself countles billions in bonuses when everything calapsed around me, and I did it all on a $175 fee.

  (Note to self: I think I need a private jet)

• 45 George // Aug 18, 2010 at 4:52 pm

  More thrills from Corelogic (formally known as morally bankrupt E-Appraiseit).
  I got a call from them today asking if I could do a 1004 nearby “tomorrow”. Since I’m doing nothing; and had not heard from this gang in a year, I said “sure”.
  Then came the fee question. (It’s always some variation of “your usual fee”). For the life of me I couldn’t remember what their base fee was (I’m beyond negotiating; just trying to get another job).
  I said $185 including the 1004MC (now that’s a garbage fee) but I read people pretty well on the phone. There was just the slightest pause…then, “ok, I’ll clear it with the agent and send you the order”.
  The order has not arrived. I looked up the last 1004 I did for them (July, 09). I charged $180.
  Yeah, let’s all ask for a $5 increase!
  What a sewer this job has become.
  Hopefully, I’ll be out soon…customary and reasonable…my ass!

• 46 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Aug 23, 2010 at 11:50 am

  OMG..George… you’re the reason we are were we are.. why would you except a measly $180.00 fee for all the liability and work needed to be performed. Im currently getting $275.00 from Corelogic, which is still not enough considering the liability and expenses involved in this business . Even accepting $275.00 for my fee’s are putting me into a negative. How would you do it. Maybe they were questioning your quality of work considering the quote given.?

• 47 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Aug 23, 2010 at 1:24 pm

  NY; bkly, queens, kings, richmond, nassau, suffolk,

  LSI and Corelogic:
  1fam & condo/coop $275.00

  2-3 fam- 425.00

  4 fam- They try to push 425.00 -450.00

  Exterior- 250.00

  Landsafe:
  1 fam/condo- 285.00-295.00 depending on area bkly usually the higher

  1 fam/condo- over 500k- 340.00-375.00

  multi- 495.00-520.00
  over 500k - 570.00-595.00

  Exterior- 240.00

  FHA +50.00

  Here are actual fees accepted by these companies. Any appraiser currently accepting less is an idiot…any appraiser currently accepting and getting more is an idiot for keeping it to themselves and not sharing this info as part of the solution to low fee hardballing in this industry… These fee’s by all means are yet not enough to keep us in business, but we need to stick together as one!

  with some exceptions such as complex properties etc. , minimum customary and reasonable fees to stay in business, cover slow month and time off, pay insurance and expenses, without antisipation or any retirement savings should be as follows;

  1 fam 350.00

  2 fam 500.00

  3 fam 550.00

  4 fam 600.00

  FHA +75.00

  Exterior 275.00

  OK, to those of you whom are getting less

• 48 ANTHONY S. APPRAISER // Aug 23, 2010 at 1:31 pm

  By the way…I just tried to refi with citibank(mngt co are LSI, rels etc)….the loan officer told me I would be charged $425.00 for a 1 family appraisal… this tells you how much we as appraisers are being shaken down.

• 49 W.R.Buchanan // Sep 1, 2010 at 12:00 pm

  We have been saddled with this term “Reasonable and Customary” .
  Now that we have this term, nobody knows what it means. Kind of like the lie that is told so many times it becomes the truth.

  Now, we have to define a term after the fact, that will govern how much we make for the rest of our lives. Does this not seem rediculous?

  Appraisers have not gotten a raise since I have been in the business. (10 years) all because our fee structure is based on a set fee for a specific job. What this does not take into consideration is the fact that the complexity of that job cannot always be adequately predetermined prior to acceptance, and the fee can generally not be altered after acceptance. As a result many times we end up having to spend many extra hours to complete a job that was NOT as it was represented . IE: we make considerably less per hour on that job that requires more of our expertise to deal with !

  I would submitt that if the customer is only willing to pay so much for an appraisal then ALL of that money should go to the appraiser. There is no reason other than greed that can justify a bank taking any money off an appraisal fee. They already make more than enough, with their absolute barage of fees. The only reason AMC’s were created was to skim more money off every transaction, and ultimately run us out of the business. Don’t bother to argue otherwise.

  We are supposed to be professional people and as such should be charging professional rates. We are licensed by the state, we have additional requirements to maintain that license and we have libility. The state says we are competant, that should be good enough for any bank. If they don’t like your work then they can go elsewhere. Incompetants would be purged from the business by attrition.

  Lawyers $300-600/hr, CPA’s $250/hr, Plumbers $95/hr, Auto Mechanics $99/hr. All are charging professional rates for professional services, and those rates are generally are NOT negotiable! Why are we taking less? WAY LESS!

  I have adopted a “billable hours” rate scheudule at $75 per hour. A normal tract house appraisal takes me about 5 hours to complete , thus $375. Obviously more complex appraisals will cost more, and I will bill extra for extra work!

  Obviously I have been met with total resistance from the lenders, but if more and more appraisers adopt a similar strategy, and as attrition removes more and more competition, the leverage will shift to our side of the fence.
  It is easy to come up with reasons why this strategy will not work, Instead why don’t you come up with reasons that it will work and implement them! One is positive, one is negative, you choose.

  I am urging everyone to adopt a similar rate structure and run it in the background. You can bid jobs based on this structure and when the leverage shifts to our side again you will already have this method of billing in place, and be able to profit from it instead of just hanging on like we are doing right now. If more and more appraisers adopt the “billable hours” payment model,,, IT will become reasonable and customary.

  Asking to be paid for your time is NOT un reasonable. And being told to include much more data in your product for no additional compensation is nothing more than theft enabled by a glut of incompetant’s in the workforce.

  This will change as more people are starved out of the business. Be ready!

  I also want to talk about joining an Advocacy Group in your area. I am a Member of the California Coalition of Appraisal Professionals. CCAP. We are an Advocacy Only group of appraisers, who are having a measurable affect on legislation after only being in existance since March of this year. Our letter writing and email campaign directed at the members of the House Finance Committee was instrumental in getting the “appraiser favorable” language put back into the bill, after it was removed. Henry Waxman was quoted as saying “it’s about time they organized.” Referring to appraisers.

  Come and look at our website and see what we are doing. Also don’t hesitate to sign up as we need the numbers to be more effective. With only 1000 members out of the 13,000 appraisers in CA We could pretty much dictate what legislation we wanted to protect appraisers from abuse. http://www.cacap.org Check us out.

  W.R.Buchanan

• 50 Elaine // Sep 1, 2010 at 1:48 pm

  The idea that appraisal fees on the HUD-1 represent what the borrower is willing to pay is ridiculous. First of all, the appraisal fee on the HUD-1 represents either only the appraiser’s cut of what the borrower is told the appraisal fee is or the entire AMC fee. And I’m pretty sure they never see what goes to the appraiser until they see the HUD-1. Secondly, the borrower does not negotiate the appraisal fee with the lender. They are told what the appraisal fee will be and they can either take it or leave and find another lender. Appraisal fees should be for the appraisal only, and if nothing else, based on pre-HVCC/AMC fees. AMC fees and other bank expenses are for what the lenders should have been doing prior to HVCC and the mortgage crisis, but that was just one more short cut they took to save money (read maximize profits).

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