Appraiser Talkback Blog

214 responses so far ↓

• 1 Fred // Mar 21, 2013 at 12:24 pm

  I’ve watched my fees decrease while I have been working with AMC’S like every body else. However I have been working with AMC’S since 2005 long before the crash. I started working with them, as I got tired of having to go drum up new clients every month. As most every mortgage company I did work for had the same routine. Send over an order, need $150,000. Send over the completed appraisal with an $140,000 value, as that was all it was worth. Broker says hey yeah that’s ok, sends over another order. This was doesn’t meet his “number” and that’s the last you here from him. Out you go to find new clients again. Sound familiar? If it doesn’t then your either one of lucky few to have banks and credit unions who actually hold their own paper, or your one of the appraisers the broker went too to get his “number”. So I went to work for AMC’S, There was only a few of them then and they promised to not care about values and would act as a buffer between you and the home owner or broker. I took a $50-75 dollar loss for reports, but in return I got work regardless of the value, and no longer had to talk to angry homeowners and brokers whose homes did not appraise for the value needed for their loan. When the market crashed, suddenly there is AMC’S everywhere and my fee were suddenly dropped a $100. Not that I am defending AMC’S actions in the last few years, as I am feeling it too. Just wanted to point out they didn’t start out they way they are today.

• 2 CA Appraiser // Mar 1, 2013 at 2:37 am

  You guys under estimate how many appraisers are out there doing $200 work with no issues. My work level slowed down recently so I started contacting AMC’s from the OREA website of approved AMC. I talked to numerous AMC and not a single one paid more than $250 for an appraisal in SoCal. Many were not taking new appraiser because they had so many willing to take the $200 fee. Now some other states might be different??? But these people that talk about boycotting??? #1 there are thousands of appraisers happy in todays economy to be making $1500 a week for doing 7 appraisal = $70k a year working from home. #2 no way could you get to the 100,000+ appraiser that are licensed in the united states to organize anything.
  also if you are truely making over $350 an appraisal and busy….be thankful you are and get off these message boards and stop complaing…. the people complaing should be the ones like me that feel forced to do this low paying work or try to get a job in the real world. i do $200-$250 work and make $70K a year. in this economy with over 10% unemployment in my area i dont have many options. what really bugs me is these amc’s are making millions of dollars a year skimming off our fees. again it would be great to say just dont do the work…but literary 10’s of thousands are for streetlinks, rels, pvc, etc….

• 3 Angry Appraiser // Feb 20, 2013 at 12:40 pm

  What has happened to our industry is a travesty. Initially I was furious at the AMCs (I still can’t stand most of them), but have since revised my views. What has become more clear to me is that where there must be an establishment of a required minimum fee (along with that for the appraiser), is that fee paid to the AMCs themselves! If all that is done is a minimum fee established for appraisers, but not for fees paid TO the AMCs . . . then this could put multiple AMCs out of business, leading to fewer, more monopolistic AMCs that will have too much power.

  Required MINIMUM fees, that is to say, base fees which may be added to, but not subtracted from, are an absolute MUST for both appraisers AND AMCs.

  I wish to GOD the appraisers of California would realize just how much power we have and focus on organizing work stoppages that would devastate the banks and AMCs, but not ruin the appraisers. What I believe would be the most effective along these lines would be to organize state-wide two week long boycotts of any substandard fees (below $450 minimum for SFRs/Condos and $800 for 2-4 Multi-units). The idea is to hurt the lenders/banks/AMCs who are taking advantage of the divided, weak appraisers and NOT hurt the appraisers . . . The vast majority of us can manage two weeks with no work out of a two or three month period of time . . . Further, the vast majority of us can manage this multiple times throughout the year. The banks/lenders/AMCs, on the other hand, would be crippled by this within one year. If this proves to be ineffective, then the work stoppage for substandard fees could be extended to a full month, which would certainly deal a series of devastating blows to these thieves.

  The main point is that there are no scabs in our industry (unless you consider newer appraiser’s willing to work for horrible fees) . . . they cannot go pull random people off the streets to do our job until we break and accept their crappy fees . . . we are not replaceable in any sense of the word!

  So my question is this . . . Why in the hell aren’t we doing this?!? Who are the people who are supposed to be representing our industry? Why haven’t they come up with a viable plan? Why haven’t they labored to coordinate appraisers statewide to this end? I believe the short answer is that they don’t really give a damn! It seems to me they are doing the bare minimum to collect their pay, offering little more than lip service to the Appraisers of California, and effecting little.

  How about we fire these clowns and get representatives with guts and intelligence to fight for our industry? How about WE do the same on an individual level?

  Personally, I am moving in the direction of commercial appraisal, for which I am both glad and grateful . . . but this is simply NOT an option for the majority of appraisers out there (it took me ten years to finally get my foot in the commercial appraisal door . . . and it only happened then because I KNEW somebody!).

  If anyone out there has any ideas about how the appraisers of California can come together in some sort of limited guild or organization or etc., with the only purpose being to pull together in our struggle for fair fees, nothing more . . . please . . . put them out there! And please respond to me . . . I’d love to hear them!

• 4 Edd // Dec 10, 2012 at 5:53 pm

  Thanks New Appraiser,

  You’ve wrapped up the AMC discussions with one short statement. But OMG, what has become of our profession?

  “Appraising is an easy step up from flipping hamburgers.”

  We no longer need to ask why AMCs persist with their ridiculous and counter-professional demands. It is because we offer employment opportunities to those qualified at Hamburger U. I’ll bet the courses there on market analysis and H&BU were challenging.

  How this ever came to be is the real question we should be discussing and dealing with.

  Clearly the AMCs do what they do because too many of us are glad we are no longer working only at McDonald’s.

  Keep raising that bar!

• 5 New Appraiser // Dec 7, 2012 at 3:36 pm

  I am a new appraiser , been appraising 6 months.
  My prior employer was in fact McDonalds.
  I am very happy with what these AMC are paying me, try working at McDonalds.
  My cousins are going to school now and they will be helping me with orders.
  Anytime you can make 170-225 a day….it’s a good day!
  You people cry a lot.

• 6 Susan Wolfson // Dec 5, 2012 at 10:24 am

  When I challenged one AMC, they responded that they were using a la Mode’s average fee for our area. I responded to them that they are NOT allowed to use any other AMC for their analysis of what typical fees are. OF course, most do NOT know that a la MODE IS an AMC. IF a company has AMCs and Lenders AND brokers as clients, AND has an appraisal processing service, THAT the appraisers pay for, THEN IMHO, it is an AMC.

  When I complained about this problem to a la Mode, who at the time was my forms service provider, they said they were sorry that I was unhappy with their service, disconnected my entire office and REFUNDED two years worth of payments.

  Why does a la MODE report such low typical fees for most areas? Because the fees that go through their ordering service are from AMCs and other people that offer low fees. NOT VA, FHA, or Banks that pay typical fees.

  BTW, I NEVER got even ONE real order from The Xsite service. Even though I paid for it for over 7 years. The three orders I did get were cancelled and It took me forever to get my pre-paid order fee credited back.

  Just my two sense,
  Susan Wolfson
  Azalea Appraisal Associates
  Wilmington, NC

• 7 Verna // Oct 19, 2012 at 2:52 am

  I’m amazed, I must say. Rarely do I encounter a blog that’s both
  educative and engaging, and let me tell you, you have hit the nail on the head.
  The problem is an issue that not enough folks
  are speaking intelligently about. I am very happy
  I stumbled across this during my hunt for something
  regarding this.

• 8 Bill // Oct 5, 2012 at 3:47 pm

  I told Epic Real Estate to take a hike. They use the appraisers money to finance their operation, and I warned them 2 years ago about how they were stealing from appraisers 2 ways. They wanted the appraisers to lower their fees; but I never saw them raise their fees when the fair and reasonable thing surfaced. The other way they steal is to only pay twice a year.

  Everyone needs to tell these guys to go away.

• 9 Retired Appraiser // Sep 7, 2012 at 7:24 pm

  Linda

  Can you elaborate on exactly how you intend to “go down fighting”? The majority of appraisers appear to have the idea they are somehow fighting back when in reality they are doing nothing.

  Did you join the AMC boycott when the opportunity was presented to you a year ago? THAT my friend is going down fighting.

• 10 Linda in Louisville // Sep 6, 2012 at 9:46 am

  Seems the latest strategy by AMC’s to get appraisers to work for even lower fees is to “hire” them and give them benefits such as health insurance, workmans comp, 401k savings plan. Problem with the fees they pay no one can save anything! It’s barely enough to live on. They say it is not “exclusive” so you can do appraisers for others. Unfortunately they require at least 5 a week and expect you to do theirs first, so who would have time to do appraisers for anyone else!! I have had DataQuick contact me. They pay $140 for a urar! Are they insane!!! The “benefits” they offer could easily be compensated with 1 or 2 of my regular fees for an appraisal each month. Also I have to pay my gas and at $4.00 a gallon, that is a lot. Also don’t forget about wear and tear on my auto and computer expense, internet, software, MLS, etc. I have seen a couple other AMC’s offering similar pay. They offer you consistent work load, but seriously…I could make just as much money working at a Walmart or McDonalds! I have put too many years into this profession to let them tear it down…I’ll go out fighting!

• 11 B Stuart // Jul 18, 2012 at 11:24 am

  I have been discussing the problems freely on well known Appraiser blogs - I guess THAT was wrong if I want to keep working. AMC giving me most of my biz has cut me off, will not return emails or speak on phone - but I did get the hint before the cold shoulder, they didn’t like appraisers who bad mouth AMCs. All I did was discuss the problems we all face without names mentioned in open manner and in an appraiser to appraiser forum. Ah well.

• 12 Working Appraiser // Jun 24, 2012 at 7:53 am

  Data quick, http://ls.dataquick.com, sent me an email the other day saying they are looking for staff appraisers who can work for them and still do your normal course of business. All they wanted was for me to complete 8 appraisals for them guaranteed. I was like great send me over some information and I’ll get back to you. The guy sent me an attachment with there fees they paid. $170 on a 1004URAR. I couldn’t believe it. They also only pay a trip fee if the borrower doesn’t show up if the lender pays. So you basically have no control over anything. Sad thing is that appraisers do this work because they are guaranteed 8 jobs a week. As an appraiser I’m not asking for an enormous fee. I get paid an average of $300-$375 for an appraisal. If the home is complex or larger is square footage say 4000 square feet I get $450-$550. If it’s over 1 million $600. $250 or lower is crazy. Especially when the AMC is probably getting atleast $400-$450. I know for a fact a lot of appraisers are doing work for Streetlinks at $250 because they are first ones to get the orders.

• 13 Kamikaze Appraiser // Jun 8, 2012 at 11:48 am

  Georgetta

  It’s a pipe dream. Only a handful of people who have access to 60,000+ appraiser email addresses exist:

  Alamode
  AppraisalBuzz
  Working RE/OREP

  I wasted 3 years trying to coax these groups into helping appraisers by sending out emails so appraisers can organize and boycott. All refused.

  Note: Working RE/OREP was kind enough to provide this space for appraisers to complain to each other however. Unfortunately that doesn’t go far in solving the problem.

  Best of luck. Keep dreaming!

• 14 georgetta // Jun 6, 2012 at 5:58 am

  Creating a day once a week for all suffering from low fees and sticking to that same day may have an impact. The problem is getting this message to all of the folks at once. There is no real coordinator to do this because you must be organized for anything big to happen. I see Chris Pearson’s name are you the blogger or are you associated with appraisers? Is there anyone that is willing to be in charge? If not then I guess we have a serious problem and it will continue unless someone is willing to put in a lot of work because it will take much work to organize something that will have an affect. There are still lots of low paying AMC.

• 15 John Pratt // May 23, 2012 at 7:33 am

  I wrote this a few moths ago, since that time I will only accept assignments which pay $ 400 or more, reviews $ 350 or more. May fees for the last 3 months have average over $ 425 and over $ 8,000 / month. I turn down request every month for a variety of reasons. Just think if no one responds to those request ( and I don’t) for any request under $ 300, the AMC with have to up their price. If they offer $ 300 just reply with a fee of $ 400, 80 % of the time you will get the assignment. Also I do not let the AMC set the due date. There are 60% less appraiser today then 4 years ago and the work is increasing. This is the time to raise our fees and only the appraisers can do that.
  Open Letter to Appraisal Blogs
  Every appraiser in the U.S. knows the negative impact that the AMC’s have had on income of appraisers over the last 3 years. The appraisers and the appraisal industry have done several things over that period to get appraisal fees back to reasonable levels with little success. There has been an enormous amount of time and effort to get the government to solve the problem. Let me tell you, if you are waiting on the government, hell with freeze over and you will be in the poor house before things get better.
  All appraisers know that the requirements and pressure put on us have increased over the past 3 years with additional forms, types of report (forensic, expanded, enhanced and others), turn times and other requirements. Additional educational requirements to become a Certified Appraiser, 2 year degree required to upgrade in addition to require more basic and continuing appraisal courses and longer training periods. I am not saying these are bad or unnecessary things, just that the fees paid to appraisers have not increased to correspond to these changes. In addition there have been several increases in the cost to produce an appraisal including but not limited to E & O insurance, software cost, MLS fees, travel expenses and many others.
  I was getting $ 375.00 to complete a standard SFR in a suburban area 5 years ago, more if it was in a rural area. Today I get request, broadcast, from AMC’s for as low as $ 225.00(I don’t even respond to these) and sometimes they will increase the fee slightly and send it the following day and continue this process until some appraiser accept their fee. It is time to change this process and the appraisers are the only ones that have the power to do it.
  Appraisers need to realize that we have the Hammer. The AMC’s have agreements with their Lender clients (appraisers are not part of that agreement) to produce and deliver appraisals, they NEED appraisers to fill this commitment therefore the appraiser has the hammer if we stick together. It is time that the appraisers band together and call a Holiday or 2 or 3 or even a week if necessary. NO appraisals will be accepted, worked on or completed during this time frame. After this date (pick a date Feb 1st,March 1st or whatever day) the minimum fee for a SFR 1004 will be $ 500, more if it is out of town or additional forms or requirements, $ 800.00 for multi-family, 2-4 units. If the appraisers stick together the AMC’s will have no choice but to pay the fee, they need to service the needs of their clients and produce an appraisal and they can’t do it in house.
  I realize that not all appraisers will stick together but if we could get 75 % to band together it would work. The other 25% could not handle all the work that is out there and the turn times would be unacceptable to the clients. The appraisers got over 16,000 signatures on a petition to send to the government which produced few results, we need to take matters into our own hands.
  NOTE: I do not accept assignments with reduced fees, my fees for 1004’s average over $ 400.00 and for reviews form 2000 over $ 325. and multi-family over $ 650.
  John Pratt, Certified Residential Appraiser

• 16 AJ // Apr 2, 2012 at 1:25 pm

  You guys all talk about these great AMC’s. I took another job rather than keep appraising because the only work I was getting was the $200 range. If you idiots weren’t so afraid of something stealing your secrets, the AMC’s would not be a problem. You have forced out so many good appraisers-they have to work for peanuts!!!! If you’re getting more than $250 for an appraisal now days stop griping!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• 17 Maria // Mar 28, 2012 at 5:28 am

  Reply to “Richard” March 20 - appraisers who accept these low fees and brag about it? You are ruining this profession (which I have been part of since the 1990’s). I hope the quality of your work doesn’t reflect the fee you are being paid. I feel that I my experience and appraisal quality are worth more than these ridiculous AMC-generated fees. It is people like Richard who are perpetuating the problem by giving AMCs and lenders this option - fastest and cheapest, they’ll get what they pay for.

• 18 Retired Appraiser // Mar 21, 2012 at 10:20 pm

  Cheers To Richard!

  Hopefully he will be completing every appraisal in the U.S. for $200 as more and more appraisers wise up and find careers that ARE profitable.

  Watch for the upcoming BankRape video on April 1st (an appropriate anniversary). Sure to fire up banks but guaranteed to anger homeowners.

• 19 Dave // Mar 21, 2012 at 1:15 pm

  Shame on You richard.

• 20 richard // Mar 20, 2012 at 3:25 pm

  go ahead and not accept the work, I have no problem doing them for 200+. I get work all the time and now am in a position of financial stability. DO I STILL WISH FOR DAYS OF $350, sure but then again I dont have to deal with the loan officers anymore or have to do those comp checks. The home value is what is it now and no more bs adjustments to help hit a value . As for the reviewers conditions that they sometimes ask for, I ususally just send the report right back without any changes and they just send it on. I even get conditions for stuff that is already in the report. The reviewers have a real hard time reading I guese. The more of you leave the business the more work I will be getting. Off to the bank with another check from my lovely AMC that HAVE ALWAYS PAID ON TIME.

• 21 Taylor // Mar 7, 2012 at 9:44 am

  I have refused to do the cheap volume AMC appraisals and stuck with banks and small inhouse type management companies. Have been able to maintain a reasonable fee structure. One of these small co’s is hiring another peroson in the management and trying to cut the appraisers fee to compensate for the new hiree. What is wrong with passing this on to the consumer/borrower. The new hiree does not lihhjten my load any and I am expected to pay for it? I’m tired of being at the bottom of the food chain.

• 22 Jim // Mar 3, 2012 at 8:49 am

  As far as appraising is concerned, I am just hanging on until I reach retirement in a few years. No trainees, no staff. Cutting back on serving underserved areas, as no one pays for driving 3-4 extra hours, gives me time to take local work and relax a bit more. As a real estate broker, I can go back to selling real estate. Appraisers should bill more like lawyers for time. That would probably backfire and the banks would get the rules changed to eliminate field work. I think that is more likely than paying the real costs of field appraisals.

• 23 Retired Appraiser // Feb 29, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  Been there tried that. We collect around 120 appraiser signatures in April on an improvised web site. Spent months on a professional site and appraisers wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole.

  The site can still be found at BankRape.com but we recently removed most references to appraisers in order to simplify it so that homeowners can grasp exactly what happened.

  There are several groups out there who say there are fighting for appraisers but they refuse to communicate with each other. I suggest a confederation of these groups for this one cause. Anyone up for the challenge?

• 24 Riick // Feb 29, 2012 at 11:00 am

  Anyone here remember reading about the young woman who stopped Bank of America dead in its tracks on charging a $5 or $10 fee per month to use ATM card?
  If I recall correctly, she tweeted and passed around (via the WWW) a petitiion to complain & stop BOA from assesing that fee.
  Same sort of steps should work for killing the banks relationship to AMCs.

  We need to let the public know that
  (a) They are being grossly overcharged for appraisals by the AMCs, and
  (b) ***As a side issue*** appraisers are being grossly underpaid.

  Opinons!?

• 25 Ed Carrillo // Feb 15, 2012 at 11:49 am

  Low fees = low quality. The idea of informing lenders of how little AMC’s are paying their appraisers (below the norm) can go a long way toward making AMC’s more competitive in terms of their fee structure.

• 26 Jim Plante // Feb 15, 2012 at 9:17 am

  You guys are amazing! Complaining that the AMC’s won’t pay you $300 for a 1004 is shortsighted. My base fee is $600–and that’s for the simplest of the simple. When it takes 25-30 pages to meet the analysis and support requirements desired my today’s lenders, the fee has to be higher. I won’t do a $1MM+ house for less than $1,500.

  And while I agree with the complaints about PCV, Rels, and CoreLogic, I did get an order for diminution in value on 250 acres of land for $2,500–from an AMC! They’re not all bottom-feeders.

  I summarily reject any AMC that has a 20-page contract. Period. I won’t even read it. On advice of counsel, I neither admit nor deny carrying E&O insurance. Turn time? I can’t forecast that until I see the property (rural area, no zoning, no permits; could be anything.) Background check? You’re free to do that–at your own expense.

  Take control of your professional lives. Quit quoting fees that were standard and customary ten years ago. And be worth what you charge.

• 27 Jorge Velarde // Feb 4, 2012 at 1:14 pm

  This thing about the AMCs paying low fees has become a puzzle to me. I can not understand how is it that the “PROFESSIONALS” as we appraisers are called, would take whatever fees the AMCs decide to pay. I don’t ever remember going to a professional (Physician, or a CPA etc.) and paid what ever I wanted to pay. Why? because they are the “professionals” and they set thir fees and are rendering the services. So,…. if you are a proffesional appraiser, then you decide what to charge! When the economy crhunch down came to, I lost most of my clients, and had to start soliciting work from AMCs like anybody else.
  I went through hard times, I couln’t get work because of my fees, but I did not sell myself out, nor did I prostitute myself for whatever fees the AMCs would pay. I declined a lot of orders and I let them know how much my work was worth. To this day, I don’t do 1004s for less than $375.00 for not complex appraisals. I take pride in what I do. I can call mysself a “professional” I do good work and I charge for it. I know some of the answers to this;
  I charge $200.00 because “I have to eat” …….
  yeah? well … if you have to eat go to some governmental agencies and they will feed you for free, in the mean time refuse to work for peanuts! simple as that. When ALL Appraisers do that, then we all be just fine and will eat a lot
  more than ever.

• 28 JAMES // Feb 3, 2012 at 3:43 pm

  WHY DO WE NOT JOIN THE UNION. THEN WE CAN LEGALLY STRIKE. THIS WON’T HAPPEN WITHOUT UNION HELP. WE CAN SHUT IT DOWN…

• 29 BankRape.com // Jan 11, 2012 at 3:01 pm

  The new book entitled Public Trust Betrayed by Appraiser James Manning should go a LONG LONG way towards turning the media’s attention to the plight of the appraiser when it comes out next month.

  This is a story the media thus far has chosen to ignore. With a little luck this book will also lead to the documentary that we were attempting to get off the ground. One can only hope that the director of Inside Job (Academy Award Winner) will purchase the rights to screen rights to the book.

• 30 Mike Ford // Jan 4, 2012 at 1:25 pm

  When people start thinking that a $300 fee is ‘adequate’ for a 1004MC/UAD Compliant 1004 URAR, complex SFR over a million dollars, then something is seriously wrong. When people tell me they regularly do two or three appraisals a day, then something is ‘wrong’. It cannot be done (and still be fully USPAP compliant).

  (1) Start telling clients how long a GOOD job takes on ALL assignments. (2) Start charging for your time. IF a simple URAR PROPERLY completed, takes only 8 hours, then charge for 8 hours! At $50/hr that is $400. Our overhead is a minimum of 25%. My SSI is 15%, My adjusted tax rate is usually 28% to 35%. At the low end, that reduces the 50/hr fee down to around $22.95/hr. I did not get into this business to earn $22/hr.

  I base most of my own fees on $75/hr for routine production work. I have raised my expert witness fees from $150 an hour to $300 an hour after two attorneys laughed in my face at how low they were at $150 (low enough to raise creibility questions).

  ANY and ALL AMCs offering only $195 (LSI) to $210 (CoreLogic & others) for SFR assignmetns should be shut down immediately. The 97% deficiency findings (75% egregiously deficient) by FHFA in recent lawsuits involving both the aforementioned should be all the proof one needs about the negative impact of low fees.

  In Southern California, I cannot imagine anyone doing a non complex SFR, within conforming loan limits for less than $450 (what I charged over two years ago), yet AMCs keep saying they have pleanty of appraisers who will work for less.

  Frankly with 1004MC (when PROPERLY researched and actually analyzed as opposed to auto populated software); and the new requirements under UAD for far more explanatory comments on items that used to be self explanatory in a grid (at least it was self explanatory to those familiar with appraising), even fees of $450 are inadequate. I feel $600 is more reasonable.

  I routinely charge from $750 to $3,500 for complex, or especially complex and difficult, or very high end housing appraisals; and have quoted up to $8,500 for estate complexes in the tens of millions ranges.

  Real professionals understand when higher fees are warranted. They may negotiate these in good faith, but usually understand that they are not going to get ‘amc range’ fees for quality work.

  I urge boycotts of all AMCs.

• 31 angry at jvi // Jan 4, 2012 at 12:28 pm

  JVI is not making payments which are overdue. Just to alert others who are hard working appraisers. It doesn’t matter how much work you get and at what fee. If they don’t pay , it doesn’t count. To make matters worse we have to accept and deliver the reports thru appraisalport. We are losing money from the gitgo. What shame to a company owned by appraisers.

• 32 Jim Davis // Jan 4, 2012 at 8:50 am

  When I get a request for less than $350 for a 1004 I tell them that $350 is our R&C. If they are not willing to pay that I tell them to call me back after THEY have received a 40% pay cut.

• 33 Lynn Kerchen // Dec 21, 2011 at 9:26 pm

  As of 1/1/2012 I will lose my best customer to an appraisal company/AMC. At best they are offering 65% of the fee after 90 days. 60% for the first 90 days. I am not willing to work $210 or $240. I have no respect for the man who owns the company and has never been a licensed appraiser. Boycott MI FHA Appraisals, Synergy and MI Credit Union Appraisals.

• 34 Laura // Dec 21, 2011 at 9:42 am

  CoreLogic, RELS and iMortgage…are CRIMINAL. I have reported to the States Attorney. These companies should be boycotted 100%. I cannot comprehend why appraisers do not STOP taking work below C&R. I hear “but I need the work” however if no one would take this low ball work, then you would have to be paid full fee. Full fee here is $350-400 1004/FHA. There are AMC’s who pay this.

• 35 David // Dec 1, 2011 at 9:35 am

  Dear SoCal Appraiser

  Visit http://bankrape.com/?page_id=118
  Read the article entitled The Anatomy Of An Appraisal Fee. This article may assist you in sprout a brain. In the likely event that you are employed by an AMC don’t bother, brains are not a requirement in that line of work.

• 36 SoCal Appraiser // Nov 29, 2011 at 10:59 am

  Greedy old appraisers are all the same. Can’t wait for you old farts to die or retire. You cry about AMCs and about only earning 80k vs. the good old days of 100k+. A typical appraisal takes a few hours to write. At $200 a pop you’re looking at $66/hr. Most of you have no other option but to appraise. At $400 you’s be earning around $133/hr. I’ve seen many of you in my CE courses. Where are you going to earn that much in the real world? There is a new breed of appraiser out there that isn’t so much concerned about earning 5 times more an hour than his neighbor. $66 an hour works fine for me if forced to. Fortunately I have some good clients and don’t do the $200 jobs. Also, data sources and running the “shop” are minimal. Crying over a couple of grand yearly that is deductible make you look like trivial fools. Keep crying while I take your money to the bank. Oh yeah, I don’t like AMCs but have to work and am not bitching about not being overpaid anymore. Go out in the real world and let me know how well you fare.

• 37 MARC SEIGLEMAN // Nov 23, 2011 at 10:27 am

  oh sorry forgot about CLEAR CAPITAL- probably worse than PCV MURCOR- while PCV doent pretend to be anything other than what they are Clear Capital staff act like they are your buddies- fellow appraisers- i spoke with one regarding a question on an order and he was “clueless” - I had to ask him if his parents had any children that lived… yuch

• 38 MARC SEIGLEMAN // Nov 23, 2011 at 10:19 am

  Although I am sure there are plenty of them out there, by far the worst offender is PCV Murcor. These “bottom feeders” routinely offer $200 fees from Citibank on orders that they are in fact getting paid $450.00 which had been told to me by several homeowners. They also have the unmitigated gall to deny fee increase requests by stating that they are not getting paid enough to give them and when asked what they are getting paid they say they cant discuss that.

• 39 Don // Nov 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm

  I have worked directly for US Bank for several years at 390 for URAR which was the lowest fee I accepted from clients. Now with UAD, MISMO, extra photos the fee is no longer reasonable. The manager of the fee panel told me tough #### when I complained about fees. He has daily requests to join the panel at those fees, take it or leave it. Unless other US Bank appraisers complain too nothing will change.

  Also I think Baron Kelly T above is right, if they tell you how to dress, when to work, report,check in etc they may be violating California State law for contract employees.

• 40 Baron // Nov 21, 2011 at 10:23 am

  KellyT-

  When they start treating you like an employee it is time report them to the IRS and state employment tax authorities. The amount of control over an individual worker determines employer tax status.
  I do it and I love the results. Some of those control freaks need tax audits. It helps them think straight.

• 41 Baron // Nov 21, 2011 at 10:14 am

  Don’t blame the AMCs. The exploitation would not be possible if it were not for weak-kneed appraisers, especially the newer ones who think of themselves as form fillers as opposed to traditional Professional Appraisers. Two things are needed at this time: one, learn to say no: two, solidarity within the ranks is important.

• 42 David // Nov 11, 2011 at 8:44 pm

  If you are serious about taking back your profession you will be well advised join an organziation that advocates TURNING DOWN ALL AMC work. It’s really quite simple, if no appraisers will accept their orders they’re ship out of luck.

  BankRape.com

• 43 Rob // Nov 10, 2011 at 11:05 am

  IF you are serious about getting better fees, then you must set a minimum fee you are willing to live with and STICK with it. When you get calls you must state the minimum fee our company will do an appraisal for is ?? I have been doing this for several years, now I have over 20 clients, one of which is RELS and none pay less than $300. I currently have a $450 order from RELS, I had to explain the reason for increase fee and it was accepted. I currently have over 15 open orders all over $300. There is also a key to getting better fees - QUALITY, I consistently have review appraisers say I receive top marks on my reports. At least once a week some company calls (credit unions, AMC, banks) asking to add my company to thier approved appraiser list - most of the time it is they have seen my work and know the quality of the reports. Do quality work and become known for it and stick to your fee schedule, the work will come! Life has never been better for my company! Other companies are trying to steal my apprentices, inbox is full and I have great clients! But it started 10 years ago with quality and integrity!

• 44 Mike Ford // Nov 9, 2011 at 4:20 pm

  DS and JE above are both right. STOP WORKING for sub par fees! Get another part time job outside appraising if you have to, but stop accepting inadequate fees. We have already proven we can force fees back up ‘partly’. It is those who keep accepting $300 or $350 for what should be $400 to $450 jobs, or even more, that are perpetuating th elow fees.

  Give up mortgage transaction work completely if you have to! Set your fees based on assignment complexity and the time it takes to do them RIGHT and in full compliance with USPAP. The number of complex assignments I see that should be done by certified appraisers, being done by lower licensed people leads me to offer the following: Complex as a term may be arguable, but USPAP compliance is not.

  Dont risk your license and reputation for insultingly low fees. Turn the work down unless you can spend the time it takes to do it right! My website offers some free (copy as you like) fee analyses.

• 45 KellyT // Nov 9, 2011 at 10:37 am

  An AMC I have done some business with not only pays below CR fees (which has limited the amount of work I will accept) but now wants higher coverages on my E & O insurance and auto insurance. My responces was for them to use better appraisers that are better drivers. The cart is leading the horse again.

• 46 JE Phillips // Nov 9, 2011 at 6:56 am

  I work in rural areas and set my own fees. If an AMC says the will pay only $250 for a 1004, I tell them that they have to pay reasonable and customary fees, and since I am the only appraiser who will go to these rural areas, my reasonable and customary fee is $425 to $500. I would guess that I get 90% call backs with fees approved.

• 47 Las Vegas Appraisers // Oct 5, 2011 at 10:28 am

  Street Links in Vegas pays between $263 - $290. Normally we would charge $350 - $400.

• 48 D.S // Sep 28, 2011 at 9:51 am

  I’ve been an appraiser for over 40 years and the current fees go back almost 25 years. It is really foolish to accept fees that are going to force you out of business. You younger/new appraisers need to face the facts and just don’t except these low fees. You will never be able to make a living at these low fees. All appraisers need to join forces. We should be paid for our hard work, as we are normaly the ones being blamed for all the problems in the mortgage industry.

• 49 L.A. // Sep 15, 2011 at 8:43 am

  Wake up appraiser’s. The year is 2011 & soon to be 2012. I have been an appraiser for 10 yrs. & the fee for a non-complex residential appraisal has stayed in the $300.00 dollar range since day one. Ever heard of giving yourselves a cost of living raise. Well I have no doubt that the appraisal fee the consumer is charged $500.00 as reported on the HUD statement in our state is every bit mine & yours. Since 2006-2007 it would be a $30.00 per year raise! Come on! The amount of work, dedication, experience & education dictates that. Reading the blog we seem to be happy to make $350.00. Blah!!!The AMC does not provide a service to me. We should not have to pay for an assignment or pay to deliver one(Appraisal Port). Absolutely Ludicrous!. More over there is not one other profession where fee’s or billable hour is dictated by the gov’t. Please! My damn CPA charges me per page. My attorney charges me for every phone call & cereal is $4.00 a box soon to go up in a grocery store in your area.

  L.A.

• 50 L.A. // Sep 15, 2011 at 7:59 am

  Turn them in……

• 51 Alan // Sep 14, 2011 at 1:06 pm

  Just got an order from Clear Captital for a 6,271 square foot custom home. This home is currently listed for almost $4,000,000 and I know this market. The fee on this is $225.00.

  Seriously I’ve seen it all now.
  Never have I done any work for them but the solicitation is outrageous. Here is there reply to my email telling them their fee’s are way out of line.

  I would love to see the other appraisers work at these fee’s I can only imagine!!!

  Hello,

  Thank you for your e-mail. We appreciate your thoughts and concerns regarding customary and reasonable fees. We value your insight, and expertise in your profession. All e-mails will be reviewed as soon as possible. Below is some information you may find helpful until you hear back from us:
  How is Customary and Reasonable (C&R) defined?

  Regulators have provided two basic methods for determining C&R:

  Lenders and AMCs are presumed to comply with C&R if the fee is reasonably related to their recent rates paid for similar appraisal assignments in the market area. This is basically a market-based approach and the approach that Clear Capital uses.
  Lenders and AMCs can alternatively choose to rely on third-party fee schedules, studies and surveys that exclude fees previously paid by AMCs. Clear Capital does not use this approach.

  Are you required to pay C&R fees for default work as well as originations?

  Dodd-Frank and the Interim Final Rules are directed at origination work, but we are choosing to apply our C&R process to origination and default assignments.

  How do you determine a recent rate for my market area?

  At Clear Capital, we look at rates paid for similar assignments over the preceding 12 months and calculate a median fee.

  You can find additional details provided on our Clear Capital Connection Blog available by clicking here. Thanks again for your feedback on this topic, as we appreciate your insights.

  The Clear Capital Compliance Team

• 52 Certified Appraiser // Sep 14, 2011 at 5:54 am

  RELS Valuation is notorious for low fees. When you decline an order because of a low fee $265, they increase the fee without a blink of the eye to $350.

• 53 Retired Appraiser // Sep 7, 2011 at 4:45 am

  As I stated before, I will gladly send anyone an digital copy of an invoice that Appraiser Loft paid 24 months after they received the order. Payment was received 2 months ago.

  Needless to say I have filed a lawsuit against them to collect the outstanding 48% in late fees (2% per month interest as stated on the original invoice) which they chose to ignore.

  APPRAISER LOFT…THE WORST OF THE WORST!

• 54 Nick Monte // Aug 31, 2011 at 9:30 am

  I’ve read with great interest the eloquent postings by those who have legimate complaints about AMC low fees. I would like to add another factor in this discussion. Not only are the AMC’s notorious for low fees, but if and when an appraiser accepts the order and meets the “24 hour TAT”, it then takes more than 60, sometimes up to 90 days to get paid. In spite of the “contracts” or “engagement letters” an appraiser is aske to sign, I have not yet witnessed a single AMC (there are two exceptions) that lives up to that contract or engagement letter. Appraisers’s are forbidden to accept an assigment that is conditioned on some future evernt, yet, I believe that many AMC’s are underfunded and wait until the closing to pay the appraiser. Has anyone looked into this?

• 55 Bruce Consaul // Aug 31, 2011 at 8:10 am

  Sorry about the email, I thought it posted automatically. It’s consaul@roadrunner.com

• 56 Bruce Consaul // Aug 31, 2011 at 8:08 am

  I charge what I think is a fair price for my work. As far as I can tell, I am in the middle of the range ($350 -$450 for a 1004 w/MC) for my area, which is rural and in the mountains of NH. I have never lowered my fee, and in fact I am considering raising them for the UAD hassle. I often get emails or phone calls offering lower fees, sometimes much lower. I ignore the emails and on the phone I state my fee and turn time. Sometimes they call back, sometimes they don’t. Other than a time back in ‘07-’08 when things slowed down, I have stayed pretty busy. I think it’s because there are a limited number of appraisers in the area and as far as I can tell they are all standing their ground. I know several who won’t accept work from AMCs at all. I have a mix of AMCs and banks, mostly AMCs though. If anyone wants a list of the AMCs I work for, email me. They aren’t as easy to work for as the banks used to be, but I get paid and keep working. As for all of the additional requirements, I tell people when they call or email that my fees are for a USPAP and Fannie compliant report and that I will have to quote for additional requirements above Fannie and USPAP guidelines. I will admit I don’t get many of those, which is OK so far. They were killing me with extra requirements. I just don’t take them unless they are willing to pay more. If all of the appraisers in a given area had the attitude that most in my area do, we wouldn’t have these issues. Time to all stand together and refuse the work for lower fees.

• 57 admin // Aug 4, 2011 at 10:12 am

  The results are available free to everyone and have been for months: http://www.workingre.com/mms/survey-register.asp

• 58 Terry Shannon // Aug 4, 2011 at 6:36 am

  Keep this in mind. There is absolutely NO justification for any AMC receiving even 1 penny of the actual appraisal fee. There is no one from any AMC out there holding the tape for us. They contribute absolutely nothing to the process of completing an appraisal report. The benefit of ALL their services accrue to the lender. Ergo, the lender should pay whatever fees they deem appropriate to the AMC for those services over and above the cost of the appraisal.

• 59 Terry Shannon // Aug 4, 2011 at 6:30 am

  Recently, Fifth Third Bank began paying $350 for standard 1004 appraisals ordered through AMCs. I was truly impressed and have done a # of assignments for them since. However, they recently began adding new requirements that add significant time and effort in completing a report. When I saw the new requirements - eg - an aerial photo plus a “detailed” discussion of what is visible in the photo and the inclusion of 3 to 5 comparables NOT used in the report and a “detailed” discussion as to why they were not used - I asked for an increase in my fee which the AMC - NationsValuation - refused to pay.
  I saw this as “mission creep” - an expansion of the scope of work which has been an ongoing phenomena for years. Each new requirement which may have come either directly from a lender and/or from a particular AMC was accompanied with a disclaimer stating that no fee increases were justified or would be accepted as “All of this should be in your file, anyhow. You are just adding it to your report.” Never mind that “adding it (whatever that might be) to my report” could take half an hour or more. Somehow the notion that “time is money” is lost on them when it’s OUR time. If my files had everything in them that AMCs and others suggest, each one would challenge “War and Peace” for shear volume.

• 60 Bill Leverson // Aug 3, 2011 at 8:20 pm

  If Working RE really wanted to help appraisers they would allow us to get into their fee survey data base so we could send to AMCs per presumption of customary & reasonable fee requirement of the Frank - Dodd bill. BTW the blame for the damage to the C&R portion of the Frank-Dodd bill can be traced directly to the Bankers lobby and the Federal Reserve.

• 61 Brent Chitwood // Aug 3, 2011 at 12:55 pm

  Most appraisers are independant entrepreneurs that are also capitalist. Capitalism includes competition. Too many appraisers and too few loans means that the buyer will pay less and we will receive less. We cannot eat a boycott. That aside. We have been taking the work at the offered price and then pushing back on the price to take it to $300 (and more). If you don’t take it at the price offered then someone else takes them within seconds and we get nothing. So far it is working. Not a full boycott but we aren’t doing any work under $300 for a 1004.

• 62 Expertguesser // Jul 27, 2011 at 11:55 am

  Hey David ID. statement 103 …

  thank God its July … !!!

• 63 Retired Appraiser // Jul 22, 2011 at 3:42 pm

  Appraisers have been complaining to the “right people” for over two years. The problem however does not lie in the fact that the “right people” are unaware of the problem. They are well aware that HVCC created a system for banks to legally extort appraisers through the use of AMCs. They are also well aware that Dodd Frank provided the means to continue this extortion style business model (after all they created the loophole).

  It has nothing to do with the level of complaints that have been filed. The law will not save appraisers because the banking lobby is the most powerful lobby in the U.S. (think billions). The only thing that could save appraisal careers at this point in time is a boycott (which began in mid April and is now on hold). We quickly found that a boycott would not work after hundreds of appraisers wrote to us stating they would love to sign up but couldn’t afford to alientate their only source of income.

  Come up with an alternate income source for appraisers and they will gladly boycott against the rape of their profession. That’s what we are currently working on at our own expense.

• 64 Sandy // Jul 21, 2011 at 3:05 pm

  I am so frustrated. I thought with the Dodd Frank bill the AMC’s would be forced to pay reasonable fees. It is no secret that appriasals have been $400.00 without an REO Addendum and withoug the 1004MC forms, for many many years. As time goes on costs go up and so does minimum wage for god sake. So how can an appraisal with an REO Addendum and the 1004MC form at a fee at $275.00 be considered reasonable??? Anyone can deduce that. So why do the AMC’s need to do surveys. Thats a bunch of bull. In most jobs, if you have been doing it for 16 years, your salary doesnt get cut, it usually goes up. I have been appraising for 16 years now and I, like everyone else leaving comments, am forced to do appraisals at what ever they will pay me. This is no way to live. I dont see alot of us holding out in order to get proper fees. So we just need to complain to the right people. Please let me know if anyone out there has any suggestions of where else I should be posting this information.

• 65 Mark Wilson // Jul 21, 2011 at 11:36 am

  Coestar Appraisal Group has a webinar on YouTube nad the speaker states that the “average appraisal takes approximately 4 hours to complete”. I don’t know where or how he has arrived at the 4 hour time frame to complete and appraisal. I can only guess this is why AMC’s like ‘Coester’ only pay their appraisers’ 60% to 70% of their fee.

  There are only 3 AMC’s that I accept work from who pay a reasonable fee, they are:
  1. STARS (Speedy Title & Review Appraisal Services).
  2. RELS Valuation (Wells Fargo’s AMC choice)
  3. REM Corp.
  Sometimes I do accept work from LSI, but I have to stand my grounds with them and request a higher fee. Most of the time with groups like this you need to request a higher than your standard fee, by the end they will usually offer you are original fee. They key here is to not let them know in the begining what your standard fee is or bump it up a tad. You can alway go down.
  By the end you either accept it at your standard fee or refuse the work.

• 66 Richard Sammarco // Jul 8, 2011 at 6:24 am

  Customary and Reasonable Fees;
  The arguement and or discussion could go on for a long time. I recently read a comment from an appraiser on the west coast that made me think. The key to customary and reasonable is on every HUD statement; Customary and resonable is what is being charged to the owner/buyer. This fee is clearly laid out at the closing of every loan.

• 67 tom // Jul 7, 2011 at 7:40 am

  I had it after 25 years I had a AMC ask me to change the SQ FT of a house to what the owner said it was. I refused they no longer send me work. Finiti. Going into sales a more honorable profession. What a change.

• 68 KellyT // Jul 6, 2011 at 10:38 pm

  Boycott…..OK. How about every appraiser refusing to do work without being paid a reasonalble fee! We all turn away the $175 1004 reports. The appraisal gets completed for a client, the appraiser gets paid a reasonable fee and the boycott is averted. Gee…what a novel idea!!

• 69 Fed Up Appraiser // Jul 5, 2011 at 11:55 pm

  I used to make a decent living as an appraiser but now that the banks screwed us all I’m done.
  (1) The banks screwed us when they sold adjustable rate loans and other to folks who couldnt afford a house to begin with, (2) then screwed us by betting that we couldnt pay pur mortgages, (3) they screwed us by getting bailed out by the US tax payer, (4) now theyre screwing us by blaming the appraiser again (Dont forget the S&L scandle), (5) increasing the workload and information level and (6) the lowering our wages to less than 1/2 what we used to make..

  Its sad the feds bought into the banks BS hook line an sinker.. again..(Dont forget the S&L scandle),we are screwed! I quit! I’m going on a permanent vacation..

  The best I can wish for is the Saturday Night Live ’s lost ending of “Its a wonderfull Life”..

  http://www.hulu.com/watch/4267/saturday-night-live-its-a-wonderful-life-lost-ending

• 70 Retired Appraiser // Jul 1, 2011 at 8:45 pm

  It would not matter if there were one official site for appraisers to complain to about fees.

  T H E Y D O N ‘ T C A R E !

  Loving that IVIP site that appraisers were supposed to complain to?
  Yeah…still waiting on that one myself.

  MAKE NO MISTAKE; THINGS WILL CHANGE. Appraisers have had enough of being told they will be paid in beans for orders requiring 3 days work and 9 comparable sales.

  NATIONAL APPRAISERS BOYCOTT
  Google It…Join It…Take Back Your Career and end AMC abuse.

• 71 NC Appraiser // Jun 30, 2011 at 10:14 pm

  What really amazes me is the fact that those in a profession that is required to identify the problem and find the data to solve the problem, can’t figure out how to complain or who to complain to about banks and AMCs who continue to violate federal laws and directives related to fees. Could this be the reason of failure within our profession? I hope those who are having problems with this don’t have problems with what to do when you run out of food, or bath soap, OR toilet paper.

• 72 Kim // Jun 29, 2011 at 5:49 am

  As all Appraiser, I to am fighting the fight of low appraisal fees. I DON”T except work for a 1004 for anything less then $300. I have explained the amount of work, quoted FD, C/R Fees, surveys from Working RE, Mercury etc. I have even emailed them the list.
  I would say I do normally get the fee requested but there are appraisers in my area accepting full 1004 way to low.
  Since there is not any good place to currently report the AMCs in PA at the moment. I have now created a folder of all the LOW FEE requests. I am hoping that a few of the appraisers in my area will join me. Once we reach over 100 orders, I am planning on sending it to the FBI, since it is a FEDERAL CRIME under FD.
  This may not be the best solution but at least I will have the ammo to shoot when needed.

• 73 George // Jun 28, 2011 at 7:36 pm

  As another (recently) retired appraiser, it appears that AMCs and banks are laughing at “customary and resonable” fees. NJ is certainly doing nothing to cure the problem. I filed a complaint with the appraisal board months ago…not a word in response.
  I finally gave up. Took a job within my family…and I sleep and eat better.

• 74 Retired Appraiser // Jun 28, 2011 at 8:24 am

  Include IN LARGE BOLD TEXT within the URAR on Page 1:

  “The appraiser was paid a cut rate fee (50% of the normal fee) by the AMC who ordered this appraisal. The appraiser therefore provided service that was commensurate with the fee that was paid therefore the likelyhood of an accurate determination of value is highly unlikely”.

• 75 CO Appraiser // Jun 28, 2011 at 7:56 am

  Do we not have the right to include statements such as this in our conditions addendum?
  “This report was ordered on behalf of the client/lender listed in the URAR by an Appraisal Management Company. The fee offered by the company was made at a rate that was below the “customary and reasonable fee” established in this market area and therefore is not compliant with the Dodd-Frank Act.”

• 76 Bob White // Jun 28, 2011 at 6:07 am

  Chuck, the problem with letting the banks know what fee the AMC is paying is that the banks set the fee the AMC is paying us. Case in point - the fee Core Logic pays differs depending on the lender.

• 77 Chuck in CA // Jun 27, 2011 at 12:48 pm

  It is sad for all of us. I went from making a good living to just making it. What do we do? If I dont except amc orders I could not support my family. Maybe we should all individually, hit the banks and mortgage companies in our area, and let them know what amc’s are doing. Its my understanding that the banks and mortgage companies can still order appraisals directly, just cant have lo’s have contact. Maybe this strategie will work!? If not, after 15 years appraising, I may need to look at a new career.

• 78 Paul in TN // Jun 26, 2011 at 12:04 pm

  One avenue we have in TN (beginning July 1) is to file a complaint against the AMC. I don’t feel that a complaint against the Federal Reserve Board, FDIC, or FTC will get much notice when it’s from one appraiser. However, since AMC’s must be licensed in my state and many others, each complaint must be rebutted by the AMC’s, who are responsible to the R.E.Appraiser Commission here. Let them defend themselves againts a few complaints and see how they put pressure to get our fees up.

  I don’t care if the lender charges the borrower $1,000 per appraisal, but don’t offer me less than $300 for a simple one. Keep a printed copy of the solicitation for the order to accompany your complaint. The banks are responsible, but to my way of thinking the AMC’s are legally bound to uphold the law (and defend themselves to a panel made up mostly of appraisers).

  I follow this issue closely and I can say there is a lot of buzz on this topic. Not since we were required to be licensed in 1991 have I seen one issue change this industry like third party fees have.

  File a complaint against CoreLogic, StreetLinks, etc. in your state if you have that option. And remember, we have no greater friends than Barney Frank and Chris Dodd (puking sound).

  Good luck to all!

• 79 Retired Appraiser // Jun 24, 2011 at 5:42 pm

  You guys can shout “don’t accept low fees” at each other until astronauts explore Uranus (pun intended). The truth of the matter is that it does no good because nobody is listening.

  Newbys are eating up these $175 appraisal orders because to them it spells freedom from their past employer and a perceived raise in income (since they haven’t crunched the numbers yet they don’t realize they are working for free).

  National Appraisers Boycott
  (The only answer to ending the rape)

• 80 Dr. Bean // Jun 23, 2011 at 8:11 am

  Terry thanks for your comments.

  We spend a lot of time, effort and money to be in this great profession along with the RISKS as with any business.

  When anything goes wrong with a mortgage loan we are the first people in the cross-hairs to put the blame. Some are rightly deserved but I feel we offer a valuable honorable service.

  I know when you have bills, a family and everyday life expenses turning down money can be very difficult.

  We have to remember that all professions have its negatives which includes competition that will accept ridiculous fees. They have that right it is called capitalism however, I believe they will not be around long because they cannot be offering the best work.

  If people truly understood the relationship of money as it relates to our lives they would demand to be paid just as other professionals demand.

  Money is an exchange of your life. We all have the same amount of time each day regardless of who you are.

  Once you have spent that time you cannot gain it back. Example: If it takes you 6 hours to work on a report you have spent 6 hours of your life in exchange for your fee. Why should you degrade your knowledge and expertise that you have worked so hard to gain for unreasonable fees?

  Ask these people who are offering you ridiculous fees how would they feel if asked to accept 0.50 cents an hour for their pay?

  I usually laugh at them a little then I explain to them why I demand my fee and under no circumstances would I even consider such a low fee and 95% of the time I get the order.

  Since I am fully responsible for the work I do then it is my responsibility to demand reasonable fees.

  I do not complain about what other appraisers charge I just know what is not an acceptable fee for me and anything below $300 which is my starting fee on a 2055 (depending on the scope of work) does not work for me.

  Take heart Guys and Gals do not let your heart faint and do not let anyone drive you out of this business by accepting low fees. Demand the respect you deserve for your profession. Give the best possible service and you will always come out on top.

• 81 Terry // Jun 23, 2011 at 6:07 am

  If ONLY all appraisers would simply take the Doctors advice ! This Doctor actually prescribed a solution that treats the real “cause” and uncovers the symptoms !
  It’s a “no-brainer” appraiser’s out there , STOP accepting the low FEE offers, STOP degrading your “Profession” and Demand to be paid for your Knowledge … (great prescription Doc)

• 82 Dr. Bean // Jun 22, 2011 at 6:55 pm

  I have been in business for 35 years.

  Having a degree does not make you competent.

  If anyone qualifies based on the standards they should be allowed to practice this profession.

  I have met a lot of fools with degrees.

  There are many successful business people past and present that do not have degrees. Bill Gates, Henry Ford, Mary Kay Ash, Richard Branson, Coco Chanel, Michael Dell, Milton Hershey, Steve Jobs, and Frank Lloyd Wright just to name a few.

  Do not let your degrees cloud your judgment.

  Understanding your profession and giving the best service is the key to success.

  I have a very successful appraisal practice and have no problem getting business.

  I have never accepted low fees. I simply tell them that if they can find someone that will accept their ridiculous fee call them and never call me with a low fee.

  I ask them do you tell a lawyer, doctor, plumber, electrician, etc. what you will pay them?

  I demand to be paid for my knowledge and I do not work cheap.

• 83 John Daugherty // Jun 22, 2011 at 11:42 am

  There are still too many residential appraisers in the industry. I know many have left, but not enough. The standards for licensing need to be raised, if we expect to be paid as professionals. I have a bachelors and MBA. Most licensed appraisers only have a high school diploma (if they had an AA, they would be certified). Most certified appraisers have AA or less.

  How can you expect to call yourself a professional and receive professional level fees if you have no formal higher education. You cant. Look at any other job which deals with disposing of millions of dollars worth of assets every year. Minimum of bachelors degree, with MBA or masters preferred. Show me a CFO or controller at even a small company who doesnt at least have a BS.

  An AL with a high school degree is willing to work for peanuts, because that is still better than what he could earn at any other job consistent with his education level.

  Appraisers should push for tougher standards on entry into the profession. Requiring someone who handles millions of dollars of assets every year to have a bachelors degree is not too much to ask. Squeeze the bottom feeders out.

• 84 Retired Appraiser // Jun 22, 2011 at 10:18 am

  If AppraiserLoft is paying you within 60 days be thankful. They just contacted me over an order I completed for them 2 years ago. When I called them back with the info they requested they hung up on me (three times).

  APPRAISER LOFT IS A THIEF.

• 85 San Jose Appraiser // Jun 21, 2011 at 8:24 pm

  AppraiserLoft starts out low, $225, but every time I ask for a fee increase, they do raise it to either $275-$325. They pay late, 60 days on the nose…but at least the check arrives.

• 86 Bob White // Jun 8, 2011 at 4:52 pm

  Teresa, regarding Lincoln Appraisal. I use to do appraisals for them untill one day they told me the lender needed the value raised about $100,000. That I would not do, so they emailed me to say they would not pay for the appraisal. End of Lincoln Appraisal work. I warn you all, work with Lincoln Appraisal and you will be burned.

• 87 Retired Appraiser // Jun 8, 2011 at 9:34 am

  Don’t fear the raper Dave. They think they’re in charge of the universe. In a few short months they will wake up to learn otherwise.

• 88 Dave B. California // Jun 8, 2011 at 9:05 am

  I performed an appraisal for Quantrix, a complex assignment for $370. Three months later, Quantrix, now Corelogic called me to change the intended user to Corelogic. I explained that this is a new assignment and would require an additional fee. They agreed. After submitting a new appraisal report they paid me. However, the next check they debited my account the $370 for the second appraisal. I questioned the debit. They refused to discuss it. Meanwhile, I had performed another appraisal on a complex property for $370, but refused to send it to Corelogic due to the fact that Corelogic was on “CREDIT HOLD.” Needless to say, I haven’t been paid for either assignment. Screw them!

• 89 Dave B. California // Jun 8, 2011 at 9:05 am

  I performed an appraisal for Quantrix, a complex assignment for $370. Three months later, Quantrix, now Corelogic called me to change the intended user to Corelogic. I explained that this is a new assignment and would require an additional fee. They agreed. After submitting a new appraisal report they paid me. However, the next check they debited my account the $370 for the second appraisal. I questioned the debit. They refused to discuss it. Meanwhile, I had performed another appraisal on a complex property for $370, but refused to send it to Corelogic due to the fact that Corelogic was on “CREDIT HOLD.” Needless to say, I haven’t been paid for either assignment. Screw them!

• 90 Gary Whaley // May 29, 2011 at 5:29 am

  Ok, folks! We may be missing the boat here! Licensees are an extension of Government! We are carrying out Government’s mandate! You should be receiving in essence the prevailing wage or pay any other skilled Government representatives are making, after all, you again are an extension of Government as a licensee! The least government should do is protect your pay for protecting their interest. Are there any lawyers willing to file a class action suit for Governmental disparate treatment against these classification of licensees / workers? Good luck and Nut up!

• 91 Old Dog // May 26, 2011 at 8:22 am

  Banks have turned over their responsibility to these uneducated money grubbing AMCs and when FNMA and Freddie Mac audits start in 2012, a lot of them will come to realize they are in deep doo-doo for their laziness. No agency ever said the banks needed to give up their responsibility to an AMC. They can each just appoint a division of their own aside from the mortgage department to make a stupid phone call or email and keep licenses on file. The end!!

  Customary and reasonable …what a joke!! The banks should always have been paying a separate fee to work with the AMC and have no relationship with our fees. Common sense is just not common when there is an opportunity to get someone else to pay and make a buck off their backs. There are a couple of AMCs I work with that are operating reasonably well and giving me my fee, however that fee was set at $400 in 1995!!! I cannot meet my debts in 2011 with what is even less (more time spent/larger reports now) than a 16 year old income. The future looks even dimmer if I am not in control of my own business and how can I ever keep up with increasing costs…how would I ever “ask” for a raise. Customary fees only keep us within in THEIR CONTROL in the future and forever more. KILLING THE AMCs is the only way out of this, to get back to fair fees and competition for the production of quality appraisals.

• 92 TERESA // May 26, 2011 at 6:20 am

  HAS ANYONE ELSE GOTTEN THE FEE SCHEDULE FROM LINCOLN APPRIASAL AND SETTLEMENT SERVICES?? THEY ARE OFFERING SINGLE FAMILY 1004 -$275 AND 1004 FHA FOR $325- I WAS DOING APPRAISAL’S IN 1998 FOR $275. THESE FEE’S ARE TOO LOW FOR OUR RURAL AREA IN GEORGIA…. HAS ANYBODY SIGNED THE AGREEEMNT WITH LANDSAFE?? VERY DISTURBING… NOT SIGNING-THEY HAVE CALLED ME TWICE. NOT GOING TO KEEP RECORDS FOR 10 YEARS. THIS HAS TO STOP-I WILL NOT DO APPRAISAL’S FOR LESS THAN $325…

• 93 appraizer // May 26, 2011 at 1:41 am

  First, I believe no one eagerly does appraisal work for such low fees. It is purely a financial decision on the part of the appraiser…pay your mortgage/feed your kids or not. Plain and simple.

  Second, the AMC’s have a monopoly sanctioned by the government. We are the only profession that has our fees dictated to us by others. I have no problem with an AMC charging for their services. That said, it should be charged above and beyond appraisal fees. The appraisal costs X and the AMC service is an additional Y. End of problem. The simple fact is that the service the AMC provides, where it to be itemized, the banks/government/world would see that the service they provide is not worth the fee. You charge your fee I’ll charge mine. Yes it will raise the cost of an appraisal, but guess what? With time comes inflation. Things cost more these days..gas, food and services - even appraisals.

  The AMC’s gather lending clients by cutting their fees - the same way any competitor in any business does. The lender wants the work done as cheaply as possible - as any consumer does these days with anything.

  That said…The AMC’s are not going away..they are making too much money.

  Legislators will not provide any real assistance. Appraiser’s have no consolidated voice or deep pockets for lobbying..banks and bank owned AMC’s do. Complaining doesn’t change anything.

  For things to change we need a multi pronged assault.

  First with the start of UAD new forms Sept 1st start letting the AMC’s know that fees will go up. Non negotiable. $50 for each appraisal start low, additional costs, training, etc. Require additional turn time due to new processes, etc. Don’t spring it on them…start greasing the wheels.

  Next, start charging $10 more for each report for the next 3 months. Then another $10 the next 3 months….an AMC will balk at a $100 increase, but if it is slow and incremental they will accept it.

  We need to educate our CLIENTS - the lenders. Explain to them that they can use Mercury Network by alamode for example and have the same work done at the same price or lower. The work will be completed faster with no middle man. QC requests handled quicker, etc. Ask your clients why they use ABC AMC or 123 AMC. Find out what they are getting, for how much and why.

  Call your all your old clients, any person/company you have ever dealt with. Let them know there is an easier, quicker and cheaper way to order appraisals…at no cost to them. Give them an option. Without another option they will always choose the only one they have in front of them. The only one that calls and contacts them..the AMC account reps who spend 8 hours a day calling clients. If I were to ask you do you want A or B you would hopefully make an educated decision. If I offer your A or A…your choice will always be A.

  Lastly…..Don’t automatically assume every appraiser out there is joyously accepting low fee work and doing it to spite the rest of us. We are all in the same boat. Not everyone has the option of waiting for full fee work…I know I don’t.

  Good luck to all!

• 94 Southeast US Appr // May 25, 2011 at 1:45 pm

  Got an order from Data Quick (used to be MDA probably until nobody would talk to them anymore) for a 1004 w/o MC for $270…said if it was unacceptable to decline and put fee on it so they would know what was customary/ reasonable…didn’t like my counter so never heard from them again…and probably one of my fellow “professionals” accepted their low offer making them feel justified.

• 95 Bob // May 25, 2011 at 8:37 am

  Here’s another Corelogic story. Bank of America/Landsafe who pays $230 for a drive by appraisal (Minus $12 portal fee, Minus fee to transmit AI ready) could not get someone to appraise a million dollar property for this fee. So one day I was in the town hall and saw an appraiser friend of mine who lives approximately 50 miles away and has been having trouble getting full fee work. He was doing this appraisal for corelogic. The total fee for the appraisal was $335. The fee to him was $110. The fee to Landsafe/Bank of America was $120 and the fee to Corelogic was $105. That’s right!, an AMC was farming it out to Corelogic and both were taking a cut off the top while my friend who was not familiar with the area, and was hurting for work did this Million Dollar property for $110!!!! Corelogic (and others) is criminal and snubs their noses at this Reasonable & Customary Fee statement in the Bill. They take advantage of individuals who are trying to get by to support their families to take these crazy fees. Something has to be done!!!

• 96 Illinois; Carrie // May 25, 2011 at 5:51 am

  C&R, in Illinois $245.00 I was told is too High per 1004 with a 1004MC by all the AMC’s I work for. Complex, Rush, extremely high value homes, over 5,000 square feet, week-end turns times, they don’t consider any complex factors. Most appraisers in Illinois are conducting appraisals for $175.00 or less. One appraiser I heard of is doing 1004, with a 1004MC for $125.00, he says he does not need the money, but wants to stay connected to the industry, BUT when appraisers are in short supply he will then turn up his fee? Hello I can’t afford to work for FREE anymore. I was told to do volumn, really? in this market. I was also told to not do so much work, really?

• 97 David Douglass // May 20, 2011 at 5:03 am

  Jorge,

  Two Words….SPELL CHECK!

• 98 Jorge Velarde // May 12, 2011 at 12:41 pm

  In response to Greg B., … It actually be great if a bit of socialism be injected in our Capitalistic system. That would probalby put the brakes-on to some businesses, such as Banks, Oil Companies, Telephone Companies etc. Their greed to make more and more money is so big, that the financial enslavement of unintelligent people is inevitable.
  As far as Appraisers not having the borrowers’ personal information, and being “IMPARTIAL”, I have to desagree. Should Appraisers would have taken their professions as what it really is, (A Profession), we wouln’t be in the predicament we are now. In the past I have compitted with many an Appraiser that always “brought the value” as requested, even if that meant going out of the area or other extremes to get higher values. In my opinion, the majority of appraisers saw themselves as the LENDERS’ PEONS, not as professionals. Today again, they see themselves as the AMCs’ peons’. When is everybody going to realize that APPRAISERS are PROFESSIONALS, and professionals set their own fee schedules. Professionals are not supposed to waggle tails, nor take bones to knaw on. Professionals pay for education, licensing, data, insurance etc. Acting like professionals would change all in our favor, I don’t see this happening though. There are a bunch of so called “APPRAISERS” that rather take a miserable appraisal fee than sticking to their guns. I wish these comments be mandatory to read by all appraisers, maybe they would realize and change their attitudes and start thinking as professionals.

• 99 KCValu8r // May 11, 2011 at 7:18 pm

  We cover the Kansas City market. I am on the approved list of many AMC’s but work for them only if they pay my standard fee of $400. We raised our fees to $350 in 1991! Those of you who are holding out for $300 are still doing an injustice to the rest of us. I also work for Corelogic. I have read many complaints about their $210 fees. I have accepted two assignments from them in the past week, both for $400. I simply explain that I will be happy to handle this for our standard fee of $400. Sometimes they decline but usually it is accepted. Quit caving to these folks. You are a highly trained professional. Act like it.

• 100 Eric // May 11, 2011 at 4:44 pm

  19 years and counting. If I spent as much time appraising as negotiating fees I would be more productive. We have become a commodity with no value added anymore. When you become a commodity it is all about the fastest and lowest fee. The moral hazard that securitization of loans has created is why we are a commodity. The lenders want the appraisal to fit in the square box so that Fannie or Freddie will buy the loan. They have no skin in the game and with the government bailouts only makes the moral hazard worse. Credit Unions and lenders who hold their loans have skin in the game and to them we are not a commodity and a valued partner and will seek out the best and pay a decent fee. I started this adventure when I was 22 and now I am 41 and know nothing else. If things don’t right themself soon, then the second I get another opportunity to do something else I am long gone!!

• 101 Greg B // May 11, 2011 at 2:42 pm

  It is a travesty that Socialism has taken over or is gaining ground over Capitalism in USA.

  I can not recall having ever watched a TV commerical or listened to a Radio Commercial warning the General Public of Predatory Appraising!!!

  It would seem that as usual, the Government puts bandaids on their elbows for cuts to their knees. What I mean is, as appraisers, we were not the ones with the Borrower’s personal information, Debt, Income, Payment History, etc. We are impartial Unbiased 3rd party observers, yet are being submitted to the most brutal form of punishment for the debacle caused by every lender and bank, along with Wallstreet. What needs to be implemented is a form of Lender Management Company to oversee that the Underwriters and Bank CEO’s stop rubber stamping Loans for borrower’s who have no business owning a home they can not possibly pay for.
  For my part, since I am sole proprieter is to keep pushiing forward, the 1004MC, glut of REO’s and Short Sales will continue to keep the markets down and let the lenders suffer with not being able to make any loans due to low value. Market Values are never going to increase with the current arrangment, so continue to be conservative and throw the mess right back in their faces. Eventually, the AMC’s will go away by natural attrition and all this will be put to rest as a bad idea. I have read your responses and can only add that in my area a lot of appraisers are gone, many that are left are retirees with monthly income regardless of appraisal work. They will work for almost nothing just to have something to do. I too let the low fee work pass by in hopes that “those appraisers” will be overwelmed by the low fee stuff and I will be available for the decent fee orders. Hang in there everyone, I predict it will actually get worse for a while longer before it starts turning around.

• 102 Retired Appraiser // May 11, 2011 at 9:39 am

  Dodd Frank = Dud Flunked

  Google: National Appraisers Boycott Criminal Justice Petition

  Quit whining and join the fight.

• 103 Raj Appraiser CA! // May 11, 2011 at 7:57 am

  we are seeing “Capitalism” at its worst. correct Dodd Frank law.

• 104 Raj Appraiser CA! // May 11, 2011 at 7:55 am

  it seems that we are all just swaping war stories.. It’s time that we take action… or we will all be out of business and broke by time this gets all sorted out.. as AMC’s do not worry about the doff frank law allready in effect..no one is going to enforce this law not even a lawsuit!!!

• 105 AZ Appraiser // May 11, 2011 at 6:47 am

  Just saw a Nations Valuation Services order for a full 1004 for $210. Not even close to r. & c. in this market area.

• 106 Jeremy Hall Appraisals // May 9, 2011 at 7:14 am

  Predatory lending practices and subsequent preferential appraiser selection choices is an ongoing event which the implementation of HVCC, and related policies have not successfully managed. Amc’s have walked right over the appropriate intention of their business position to quell predatory lending, & real estate valuation flipping & flopping, the same way they have walked right over C&R appraiser fee laws. Lack of round robin rotating fee panels allows for a multitude of advocacy related problems in real estate appraisal distribution.
  What works is the tried and true traditional approach, similar to the VA panel, as well as many existing in house distribution rotating panel credit union methods.
  Having a biased middle man who seeks to appease the wishes of lending client commission based brokers is not much different than an appraiser being pressured directly by a biased lenders agent who utilized preferential assignment practices at the expense of fair consumer protection to maximize their profits. In fact, they are markedly similar.
  The amc will preferentially choose appraisers that show advocacy in favor of the lenders more often than not. Lack of rotating panels means one single appraiser can cause a systemic problem with valuation security and that can go on indefinitely because the amc will not risk losing their lender clients any more than that one bad appraiser will risk losing his preferentially assigned appraisal work. Independent valuation opinions essentially cannot co exist within a climate of preferential appraisal assignment.
  These are advocacy related issues which drive the entire structure of appraisal ethics. An appraiser must not be an advocate. However, feeding consumer appraisal charges back to the lender, their subsidiary amcs, or even making deals work so an appraiser can keep up their automated amc grading to receive more work, are points in fact which are at odds with proper ethical appraiser rules.
  Is it too late for someone who knows how this works to examine this? The current implementation and interpretation of these rules is clearly erroneous. “The fox guarding the hen house” rings so true
  The appraiser is many times the only person on the front end of loan to be a truly unbiased party, they are supposed to be uniquely qualified to assure the collateral worth is adequate. Preferential assignment practices have and will continue to cause these basic checks and balances involving appraisers, salesman, and brokers to be meaningless.

• 107 Retired Appraiser // May 8, 2011 at 8:30 pm

  With response to the following comment noted above:

  “State level legislation needs to be passed to impose a hefty fine on any lender or third party provider who appropriates (or attempts to appropriate) any portion of an appraisal fee”.

  That sounds good in theory, however our states are as hell bent on sucking up to the banks that created this mess as the federal government is. I’m embarrassed to say that my own state still refuses to recognize that HVCC or the Dodd Frank Appraiser Fools joke caused a problem for appraisers. Congratulations Kentucky, you are really on top of things. Unfortunately Kentucky if not alone in living this life of denial. It reminds me of Pakestan…they use one face to say they are a friend of the appraiser and another face to wiggle their little brown noses intimately against their banker’s %$*.

  Our state goverments are as much of a disgrace as our national government with ragard to the current bank rape that appraisers are experiencing.

  If you really want justice just wave a million dollar check in front of your state or federal politician. If you want to win your careers back be prepared to wave a billion dollar check under their brown noses.

• 108 Steve Devon // May 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm

  “Customary and Reasonable Fees” are exactly what the Appraisal Management Companies (and any self-styled “Appraisal Services Company”) have been charging for the past year and not a penny less. Our fees going forward must be pegged at full current market amount, defined as what the AMCs (or any other third party) have been charging the American consummer, as well as what we independent appraisers have been charging for non-mortgage appraisals we perform.

  AMCs need to start earning their fees the old-fashioned way: charging the lenders for the services they provide to the lender. We need to be able to set our fees based on our operating costs and the amount of quality appraisals we can reasonably turn out in a work week to achieve a reasonable yearly income for what we do.

  The AMCs pay none of the costs of being an appraiser, so why should they set our fees for appraising? We are not employees of the AMCs; and as a third party “gate-keeper” in between us and our lender-clients, they should not be dictating the fee-for-service that we independent contractors charge. Nor should they, as a third party with a self-interest in off-setting their own fees for service, be determining the “reasonableness” of our fees.

  This is not rocket science, but it may be racketeering: “unlawful interference with business or employment” (Webster’s).

  There is also an issue of consumer fraud: “intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value” (Webster’s).

  It can easily be demonstrated that consumers have a reasonable expectation that the “appraisal fee” they are paying (usually outside of settlement) is going, in its entirety, to the appraiser who came to inspect their home; that person who wrote and signed the appraisal report, a copy of which they are entitled to receive. They have had no idea of what is really going on, and that the appraiser has been forced to accept a greatly reduced appraisal fee than what they paid, the balance of which was appropriated by an undisclosed third party who has nothing to do with the actual act of appraising.

  Appraising is a solitary endeavor, it is not a relay race or a group effort. Lenders need “appraiser managment”, not appraisers.

  Since most AMCs operate across state lines, this constitutes “wire fraud”, federal offense: jail time. I also don’t see why this should not be grounds for a class action suit to claw back our reduced fees for past years of lost income, up to the statute of limitations. This could be big, and a nationwide appraiser’s guild joined by all could be just the vehicle to initiate action.

  The only way to assure true appraiser independence is to remove appraisers from the lender/AMC collusion to shift the cost of retaining appraiser services away from the lenders who require it and onto the backs of those in the appraiser community.

  State level legislation needs to be passed to impose a hefty fine on any lender or third party provider who appropriates (or attempts to appropriate) any portion of an appraisal fee.

  Appraisers MUST STATE the fee they have been paid in the report, CERTIFY that it is the “Customary and Reasonable Fee” that they receive for non-mortgage equivalent appraisals.

  We are up against a formidable nationwide cartel with a lot of state and federal level clout; it’s not going to be easy to dislodge them. They are blood-suckers and they are not going to willingly let go.

  Just saying “no” to low fees is not going to do it, especially after they stop sending you orders.

  Lets get organized, lets get clout! Join and support the organizations mentioned in this publication and in many of the appraiser comments.

• 109 Retired Appraiser // May 4, 2011 at 11:24 am

  We are currently informing LSI appraisers (directly) about the National Appraiser’s Boycott. LSI should see the light with regard to fair fees very very soon.

  If you have a sizaable database of appraiser’s email addresses feel free to foward it to me at davidf104@aol.com

• 110 shouldagonetomedschool // May 2, 2011 at 6:32 pm

  Appraisers: I’m having success in getting AMC’s to raise there fees considerably!!!!

  Just in the last 10 days I’ve been approached by no less than 3 new AMC’s with orders they had for me. All three of them were readily willing to pay be $315 which, while still below the $400+- full fee for my market, this is a positive development.

  Even more exciting, I got a call today from Finiti out of Maryland (One of Citimortgage’s biggest AMC’s). I have done almost no work for them for over two years because they want to still pay $230 with all the extra work to be done but, today, when they said they had an order, I told them I was hesitant to even consider it because my fees were very outdated/low in their system relative to current fees AMC’s are now paying in wake of reasonable and customary fees rules and she quickly told me that $300 for the 1004 conventional refi order was considered reasonable. I took the order. Still not the $400 that I should be getting but I never thought I’d see the day that Finiti would quickly offer $300 fee. Guys, keep asking the AMC’s everytime a new or old one calls with an order to please quote you a reasonable fee and see how they react. Maybe LSI really is increasing their fees upwards of $300, if you ask for such a fee (as one writer on here indicated to be their experience). No Utopia but things appear to be improving with AMC’s a bit. Also noted that several are backing of the “2 extra listing/pending” and only requiring it if in a declining/soft market (my market is healthy)!

  Keep telling the AMC’s that most of their competitors are backing off the 2 pending/listing requirement since this is a big time saver if we can get more of them to stop requiring more work than guidelines technically require. I fight all the extra requests above and beyond the call of duty every change I can and I let them know they are asking more than the norm and the fee should be in line with the extra requirments. Had one company asking for me to paste all comp mls sheets to report, add aerial photo from google maps, add book/page for all closed comps, etc and I just tell those types to raise the fee or find somebody else.

  Again, things are looking up. Still taking a few sub$300 orders if within 10 miles of office and no extra pending/listing comps or other extra requirements but those are becoming fewer and further between lately with $300 to $315 becoming the new “norm” with AMCs from my perspective!! Ask and you may well receive the higher fees!!!

• 111 David ID. // May 2, 2011 at 9:33 am

  I’ve been appraising since 2003. I’ve never been in any kind of trouble with my state Board nor have I ever had any complaints. At one time I had a pretty good business. All the schooling, computers, licensing, E&O insurance, scanners, printers, cameras, paper, ink, wear and tear on my car, running it in the ground. Continuing Ed classes, State License fees, MLS listing fees, National Association of Realtors fees, cost for computer programs, phone costs, Fax machines and other office equipment, And God knows how may other expenses. All of this expense and the AMC’s like EPIC, REl’s, PCV Murcor and the rest have dropped our fees down to nothing. My license expires in July and this will probably be the end of my Appraisal Practice. I would like to take a second to thank the Stupid appraisers who have let this happen to us and me. There are appraisers who will work for minimum wage and let the AMC’s do this to us. Your future in this business is going to be short. But, Not before you run this industry in the tank. Maybe you think you are smart by taking these jobs and keeping busy. But it is just a matter of time until you will be in the same boat myself and many other appraisers are. And just in case you didn’t know this. AMC’s are NOT LOYAL TO YOU. If they find someone who will do it for less than you charge, YOU will be out of work too. They act like your important to them, But you are not, YOU ARE REPLACEABLE TOO. Then you’ll get what you desive and you’ll wonder what happened. I had several AMC’s I worked for. They have dropped their fees so low I don’t work for them any more. If I do get a call. It’s for a property out in the middle of no where, with no comparables within 50 miles and no one else will do it. But do you think they will pay me for it being complex or the miles I’ll have to drive. NOT ON YOUR LIFE. They still what me to do it for nothing. But they say “If you do this for us will give you some more work to make up for it” But like I said THEY LIE LIKE A RUG, and you’ll never hear from them again.

• 112 Retired Appraiser // May 1, 2011 at 11:46 am

  Have your AMC sent over a list of comparable sales for you to consider and comment on?

  Many appraisers don’t even realize that this is the new way for AMCs to say “alter the value or you’ll be getting no more business from us”.

  Before I closed my shop I had AMCs sending me computer prinouts of 40+ comps (after I had submitted my report). They wanted me to consider each comp and comment on the value in relation to the subject. Needless to say I told them where to shove their list of comps. In turn, they sent over a request to cancel the appraisal order (after it was completed and submitted to them). In turn I promply notified them that they had been turned in along with all of their emails as prove of coersion to force me to alter my value. I received payment for the appraisal by express mail the following day. This happened 2 1/2 years ago. It was my glimpse into the future of appraising. It was critical factor in walking away and finding a better career. Trust me guys, better careers grow on trees when you compare it to appraising.

• 113 D.R. // May 1, 2011 at 10:11 am

  Streetlink $275, Clear Capital $220, PVC a Joke! The AMC’s are stating thier clients are not requesting an appraisal so that do not have to pay customary fees, however the requirements requested as the same as an appraisal usually with FHA guidelines & 1004 MC form & Reo Addendum with additional non typical photo requirements. More work - Less Fee’s - you better get it done quick! They must think they are APPRAISAL GODS! They are building PYRAMIDS (w/our money) and we are the slaves!! Either conform to their ways or they’ll move down the list to the next desperate sucker appraiser! WHY DO THE AMC’s HAVE ALL THE POWER! Oh yea & I’m still being pressured to hit certain values. I also increased my fee on the AMC list and they still send request for below customary fee, I stopped accepting their orders as I’m sure many good appraisers are doing. The work doesnt match the fee I’m sure the quality of appraisals will soon deminish….again!

• 114 Retired Appraiser // Apr 30, 2011 at 8:20 am

  Randall

  So why not take a different job and join the National Appraiser’s Boycott until the problem is solved? It’s not like you’ll be missing out on anything (except for bankruptcy).

• 115 Randall // Apr 30, 2011 at 4:30 am

  @S. CA Appraiser #13; I have raised my fees and/or asked for what would be in the range of R&C. Work has either stooped from those who I raiseed or cancled fromthose who ask for an increase, one amc said, and I qoute “Chase did not raise their fees so we and other management companies are business as usual”. I qouted a fee of $500 to appraise a 4600+ sqft home built in 1900 on a 1.2 acre lot with a cottage, in ground pool and waterview, assesed at $4 million, I have not seen the order, I quess they foud someone else for a lower fee.

• 116 Randall // Apr 30, 2011 at 4:11 am

  I have begun to tell the lenders/creditors that call looking for payments that I am falling behind on about this “funny” circle. That I am an Appraiser and that banks dont want to make sure we are being payed R&C fees, or make sure the amc’s do, to us so how can I pay my bills?

• 117 shouldagonetomedschool // Apr 29, 2011 at 6:26 am

  One of the commenters was correct that we need to attack this problem from the angle/perspective that the “borrower/home owner/consumer” is getting the shaft with $525 appraisal fee paid and a $250 appraiser received. I had an order last week where the borrower called me in my car after a quick inspection on an order that I had already appraised twice before and had sketch/page one all saved in PC. She said she didn’t think it was fair to have to pay for another $525 appraisal 1.5 years later when I had much of the work saved in my PC. She had no clue that I was actually getting $300 less a $10 AppraisalPort fee of $290 to do 6 or 7 hours of quality work. I had to bite my tongue as my kids would starve without this AMC that pays $300 less $10. Back to my point: The Washington Post and the Washington Journal both had recent articles which used this plan of attack with the articles being all about consumers/borrowers getting screwed. The talked about crappy appraisers being sent out and royally missing the market by giving an example of a high end home that was appraised for $200K below what the good appraiser quoted in the article later told the borrower it was worth when he changed banks.
  The borrower thought the big $525 fee was going to the appraiser coming to their house but bank actually sent a low qualilty/bottom of the skill/expereience range appraiser that low-balled the property way too low by using comps from far away from this exclusive country club/golf course backing property. THIS IS THE SMART WAY TO ATTACK THIS. ALL POLITICS ARE LOCAL AND CONSUMER ADVOCACY IS WHAT GRABS THE HEAD LINES!! Try writing “free lance” articles to the mortgage/real estate/financial sections of your local newspapers with a flashy article name such as “Mortgage Borrowers Getting Cheated” or something along those lines. Give your free lance work away for FREE. Then go on to list a few of the smaller, local Credit Unions or a couple of National companies that actually do pay a reasonable fee over $300 and name a few AMCS and the banks that use them that pay well - OK, maybe can only find one. List a few of the biggest national culprits (BOA, Citibank, Chase, etc). Recommend “going local” with loans. Tell borrowers to insist on being informed what the actual appraiser coming to the house is getting paid!!!! This is the SMART approach to this problem. Here’s another good idea along the “all politics are local” approach. Call every appraiser in your market area from on line ads to yellow page ads to lists obtained from state licensing and get everybody from your local market (where it matters most to you) to agree to chip in $50 or whatever it takes to rent a big convention hall or a small meeting room in your nearest city and you all get together and discuss how to tackle the problem legally as a group. You may want to consult a laywer first since the “antitrust” laws need to be understood and all need to be on the same educated page regarding price fixing laws with respect to “banning together to set fees”. They have laws on the books that say it is often against the law for independent business owners to meet in private for the purpose of “price fixing” - these laws are to protect the consumers so that Exxon and Mobile can’t meet in secret to set gas pump prices, etc and screw the consumers at the pump, etc. The problem is that we as appraisers feel like a bunch of “screwed over consumer-little guys” but yet we still need to understand these antitrust/price fixing laws so that we can push it to the limit of the law without crossing over that line!! So in each local market somebody has to step up and start reaching out to local apprasisers in our markets to rent meetting rooms but instead of meeting for continuing ed, we are meeting to figure out how to legally join forces to get fees up without breaking the law.

  The meetings can also be used to collectively voice complaints and organize petitions to send to the proper gov’t agencies to complain against AMC’s in an organized fashion, etc. These same complaints/press releases can go to the good guys in your market so that the good local banks and good AMC’s can be rewarded for doing right by borrowers!! What a concept - you get the local S&L’s and credit unions (that still pay reasonable fees or the full fee to the appraiser )on your side and make them want to help your cause! They will want to use your “press releases” and “free lance articles” to help them market themselves as being better than the big national banks or other bad apples in banking!!

  Summary of the above 4-prong attack:

  1) try your best to feed your family while rejecting appraisal fees below the $275 to $300 range.

  2) become a free lance writer sending articles and press releases to local papers and real estate/finacial sections of papers in particular with the focus on the “borrower/consumers” getting screwed, not the focus on the “appraisers getting screwed”. Big media loves to latch onto “consumer advocacy” causes but they don’t care about “appraisers going broke” - that aint a headline!! Mortgage Borrowers Beware is a headline grabber!!! Let’s me SMART!!!!

  3) organize some actual or even virtual meetings online with as many local appraisers as you can (I prefer meeting belly to belly with the local appraisers so we can get to know each other better.

  4) Use that organizational effort to both fight back with complaints to power brokers/gov’t while also organizing ways to create a shortage of local appraisers working for peanuts in your back yard. Try to compile a list of all that have joined your local organization of sick and tired appraisers and then take it a step further and try to make a list of the licensed appraisers locally that are NOT part of your organization and then call them up on the phone and ask them to join your cause or else suffer whatever consequences that your group has been advised taht it can legally do. Anybody that understands the price fixing/collusion/antitrust laws should speak up on now and tell us how this can be done. Let’s be constructive and not a bunch of whining babies here - like the one appraiser wrote earlier - I thought this was a forum to attack the problem, not a place to vent!!! By the way, the appraiser that said they raised their LSI fee to $350 and still gets orders - I don’t believe you unless you live in Beverly Hills or some high priced market. LSI would NEVER pay such a fee in my NY market

  I have inspired myself in writing this to do the above myself - will you join me in doing the same or keep complaining and starving?

  Should have gone to med school when I had the chance!!!

• 118 Retired Appraiser // Apr 28, 2011 at 7:20 pm

  You are wasting your time FJG.

  You’re essentially asking the fox who ate the chicken to cough it up two years after he ate it.

  Amazingly petitions and tea parties with politicians continues to give appraisers hope and a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside.

  Also amazed that appraisers are putting up with this crap after the April 1st joke. They simply roll over and stick their butts up in the air and say stick it to me again banks…we haven’t had enough yet.

  It’s absolutely freaking incredible that appraisers are still putting up with this B.S.

• 119 FJG // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:22 pm

  ALL: IMPORTANT READ AND REPLY

  I will be meeting with Congressman Mike Fitzpatrick in approximately three weeks to ask for his supoprt in stopping Banks and AMC’s from stealing our appraisal fees and to make sure the consumer gets what they are paying for.

  The Congressman is on the Financial Services Committee.

  It is my belief that this is the final showdown for our profession and I am not giving up on something I worked so hard to build the past 20+ years. Therefore I am personally taking action. Nothing will be Sugar Coated in this meeting.

  You can help me.

  I have created an email address for you to voice your concerns. I will PERSONALLY hand your concerns to congressman Fitzpatrick to further support our position.

  Please do something for your profession. Be professional but direct with your opinion.

  Send to:

  ToCongressmanFitzpatrick@profapp.com

  AMC’s, Lenders and Banks are raking in Millions of dollars off the backs of appraisers. Take five minutes to help yourself today.

  Frank G.

• 120 CA appraiser // Apr 28, 2011 at 3:42 pm

  An example of where some idiotic lenders ARE willing to spend money. I recently refinanced my home and the LTV was 23%. The lender just ordered a field review. How do I know this? I was offered the assignment!

• 121 bubby1 // Apr 28, 2011 at 1:34 pm

  NJ Certified Appraisers and the rest of you good people.

  You are not alone. Here is some good news for a change:

  At that conference Virginia Gibbs, of the Federal Reserve Board, gave these same specific instructions. She also commented on Presumption 1 in the Dodd-Frank Final Rule which many have referred to as a “safe harbor”. According to Ms. Gibbs, it is in no way a “safe harbor” but only a “presumption of compliance”. AMCs will still need to prove “customary and reasonable” if a complaint is filed. Many appraisers have contacted me about receiving orders with a comment by the signature acceptance line that states “by accepting this order you agree that the fee is customary and reasonable” or words to that effect. I addition, these statements do not establish “customary and reasonable” fees nor do they satisfy the AMC responsibility to pay customary and reasonable fees. Additional information will be forthcoming.

  Have to share this with you too:

  TSI is now hiring staff appraisers to the tune of 40 bucks an appraisal. And I quote: “We want quality appraisers for quality reports” When asked what do you pay for that quality? Reply: “We pay based on volume” Ha ha ha

  How the hell do you get quality reports for 40 bucks a piece? You have to do a minimum of 10 assignments per per week to make less thank 40% of the appraisal fee they get. Do you think they will get quality or lots of re-considerations for the crap they get because of the volume the poor bastard has to do to feed the family.

  Hang in everybody

• 122 NJ Certified Appraisers // Apr 28, 2011 at 10:16 am

  Certified Appraiser Reviewer / Certified Residential Appraiser with 22 years experience. Most of our AMC work from 2 firms, LSI and RELS. Tried raising our fees to a level slightly below area C&R fees but calculated to be a level at which we can survive. WORK STOPPED DEAD. After a several weeks went back to our low rates but requested a few dollars more for the 1004($225 - RELS, $235 - LSI). Work renewed by fewer assignments. As for many out there, these low fees are driving us out of business but accepted in order to slow our fall. Can’t afford continuing ed classes, have to let my IFA designation lapse, had to cut coverage area where MLS fees were too high. Bankruptcy is just around the corner. I will try to report the situation to the appropriate authorities, but I’m not sure I can last long enough to see any results which will help me. Heaven help the housing industry and the economy when the appraisal industry crashes and burns.

• 123 Retired Appraiser // Apr 28, 2011 at 6:28 am

  Our appraisal board has always denied that a problem exists with AMCs, with HVCC, and with Dud Frank. The standard answer with regard to HVCC for two years was, “we’re not aware that a problem exists because HVCC is not a law”.

  My response was, “a problem certainly exists bozos, I was forced to surrender 98% of the clients that I spent 20 years finding and 50% of all future income (if any)”.

  Board’s response: “Oh”

  Why would a state board become in fixing a problem that it refuses to exist.

• 124 fred // Apr 28, 2011 at 4:46 am

  It appears the big amc’s are in collusion to win, and they know that the State Boards are weak and ineffective in controlling them. I suggest the State Boards set minimum fees for a 1004 of 400 and any amc not paying that amount will be fined 100,000 placed on suspension for 30 days for the first offense, for a second offense ability to do business in that state is revoked or they have to pay a million dollars to a fund to be given to the appraisers. Some States like Florida who fund their board on fining appraisers, yes over 1/3rd of the budget is forecast of appraiser fines. Stronger boards can be the answer to stop the collusion.

• 125 John Gedik // Apr 27, 2011 at 11:46 pm

  AMC’s SUCKS, period.. Ever since they got in our industry, Loan process has been falling apart by: the lenders, consumers, loan processors, appraisers e.t.c. We did not asked the AMC’s to get into our business and take controll of the industry. Who are they anyway? Why the banks do business as usuall, instead of paying those bastards big $$$.And not having a appraiser that they can discuss the overall appraisal on the loan..Those were the day’s my friend..

• 126 Arizona Appraiser/Steve // Apr 27, 2011 at 9:17 pm

  The AMC’s have interpreted “reasonable and customary” as any fee an appraiser “will accept”. Frank/Dodd Act is a total joke in protecting an appraiser and the consumer. There is NO BENCHMARK to establish reasonable and customary, therefore, AMC’s are going to pay whatever an appraiser will accept and call it “in compliance”. Rels has done this and also couple others I have worked with in the past. Some AMC’s are offering fees I saw in appraising in the 1980’s with one-tenth the work NOW required and minimal overhead as compared to trying to run a appraisal shop today. Another year of this nonsense, I’m going to bale from being raped.

• 127 UTAH APPRAISER // Apr 27, 2011 at 6:31 pm

  UTAH APPRAISERS: You are in luck. Recent legislation has the Division of Real Estate enforcing reasonable and customary through hearings with the offending AMC. All you have to do is go the division’s site and file a complaint.

• 128 Steve // Apr 27, 2011 at 6:28 pm

  UTAH APPRAISERS: You are in luck. Recent legislation has the Division of Real Estate enforcing reasonable and customary through hearings with the offending AMC. All you have to do is go the division’s site and file a complaint.

• 129 Kentucky Appraiser // Apr 27, 2011 at 5:03 pm

  First American sent an appraisal order in April 2011 for a fee of $225. I told them that this was not a reasonable and customary fee and they cancelled the order. Probably found a less experienced appraiser who would do it for this fee.

• 130 Mike // Apr 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm

  Got Appraisal - paying unfairly offered $280 instead of customery fee of $375 for appraisal.

• 131 Mark in San Diego // Apr 27, 2011 at 12:26 pm

  RELs (Wellsfargo), and well as Landsafe (Bank of America), both are paying below what is C & R. I refuse to do work for streetlinks and Clear Capital, as their fees are an insult. I consider myself lucky to have most of my work from full fee clients. I have been appraising for over 26 years, what a business.

• 132 Bryan Knowlton // Apr 27, 2011 at 11:33 am

  I just put together a website for reporting appraisal management companies that are not paying customary and reasonable fees.

  You can click on my name to get to the website.

  I will be sending lists of appraisal management companies to both the state and federal governments and hopefully get some national exposure as well.

  Please report them!

  Thank you,

  Bryan

• 133 Klara Lorinczi // Apr 27, 2011 at 11:18 am

  I called the Federal Resere Board and asked them how to file an anonymous complaint again a large AMC who pays very low fees. I am aware that borrowers are paying $400-500 in appraisals fees, while this AMC pays only $225 to my client/cmployer, who pays me half of that. For this particular client, I get only $120 per 1004, which is all that’s available right now. I’m also too close to retirement and too old to change careers — trust me, I already looked into it. The Federal Reserve Board told me I would have to file a complaint with my state attorney’s office, which would probably eliminate the anonymity I need so I don’t get fired from my employer, a large appraisal company. At this time, it’s a stalemate.

• 134 Retired Appraiser // Apr 27, 2011 at 11:16 am

  In response to:

  We need a appraiser’s lobby. You’re fighting the most powerful group in the U.S. (the banking lobby). Do a little research and you’ll quickly see that they have access to billions of dollars and do not hesitate to spend it when they need to buy a favor in Washington. Appraisers would be luck if they could raise $1.00 from each appraiser. That’s a $90,000 lobbying effort. Now assume that you can raise the money from 5% of appraisers and you have a $4,500 lobbying effort.

  In respone to “filed a complaint against U.S. Bank yesterday”. Much like signing the 7,000 name petition that’s going around, it’s nothing more than a feel good thing on the part of appraisers. The Dodd Frank loophole provided them with a legal means to continue raping appraisers. In other words: What are you complaining about? They followed the law.

  Visit the National Appraiser’s Boycott Against AMCs. You can google it. The few, the proud, and the angry are not after fair fees. They’re demanding a complete return of what was taken from them.

• 135 James Tracey // Apr 27, 2011 at 9:57 am

  There are very few AMCs that pay reasonable fees. They blame the lender, but I think they are lying. I ran into a lender who was angered by the low fees that AMCs pay appraisers while they mark up the appraisal fee to them. The worst I have encountered are PVC Murcor, Clearcapital, Dart. There are others. Then, many of them then run us into the ground with endless insane requests to make sure we lose money. It is slower this year as we enter a double dip recession, so appraisers are taking the lower fees. I think the underlying intent of the Uniform Dataset is to reduce the need for field appraisers by mining data. It will come just in time to compensate for the shortage of appraisers which will occur when the economy turns around. I am too close to retirement to change professions.

• 136 Raj Appraiser CA! // Apr 27, 2011 at 8:15 am

  AMC & Banks shorting the Appraiser on Fees needs to be dealt with by Boycotts & bring this issue to the National level on Consumer End. When the borrower becomes aware that Banks are charging & hidding additional fees under the AMC umbrella the consumers will demand refund of additional fees. Just need to get this info to Consumers via Internet and local News Channel consumer Advocate interviews!! Going to congress is fine but Banks have high paid lobbyist and have most of the Senators and legislators on the Bank & AMC side. So an update on the new law will only create more loopholes for banks & AMC to utilize.
  Grassroot campaign will be the most successful!

• 137 Sandy Hall // Apr 27, 2011 at 7:30 am

  JUST filed a complaint yesterday against US Bank, whose AMC is MDA. In Montana, we get higher fees due to complex, low-population markets and also MT is a non-disclosure state($475 for typical URAR); these folks offer $315 regularly, I counter bid every time and it always cancels. I have had enough; I am beyond afraid, and am angry enough to take some action. I filed through FDIC, under Contact Us, then clicked on the Customer Assistance Form. I asked for a response so when I hear back, if ever, I will share.

• 138 Jaycee // Apr 27, 2011 at 6:03 am

  I’ve read most of the comments on this site and experience it all. I’ve spoken with people at PVC asking what they are doing to determine R & C fees. They told me they calculate the R&C fee from the appraiser who accepts their $200 offered fee. Once they can’t get appraisers to take their offer then fees will increase until someone takes it. To them that’s reasonable and customary. If there was a way to make sure no one accepted their offered fee then their calculation of R & C would change.

  The problem is I can’t afford to boycott their work. I have clients that pay $300-350 but not in the quantity I need to say no to all sub R & C fees. I’m in no position to say no to the $200 fee but that doesn’t make it reasonable and customary. It’s more like extortion and robbery (E & R fees). As long as the lender and AMC can steel our experience and professionalism because they are not properly regulated, no one will be entering this industry. All our acquired experience and professionalism will be lost. We appraisers need a lobby that’s working for us and I think the idea of a guild would be a good start. Jaycee

• 139 Mark from Indiana // Apr 27, 2011 at 6:00 am

  Everyone is complaning but NOT doing ….I just joined The Appraisal Guild/Union yesterday they fight for me ,best $150 I ever spent. They have weekly conference calls (you can listen in even if your not a member) And don’t worry if you don’t want to join they will still fight for you. They are the only group that has met with Barney Frank, they give me weekly updates how the progress is going to file a complaint on a State level. You can get more info on them at Appriasalscoop.com

• 140 Dan STL // Apr 27, 2011 at 5:57 am

  There are so many AMC’S charging low fees. LSI, E appraise it, Dart, and reels. I was under the impression, this was going to be regulated and the AMC’s were going to have to pay standard fees based on market area. Not only do they want low fees but they come back with crazy underwriter requests. They have turned our business into a circus.

• 141 NC APPRAISER // Apr 27, 2011 at 5:49 am

  Not only are the low fees unacceptable so is the responses from the AMC - most do not have a clue what they are doing - 1 company who is offering $100 full appraisals when I spoke with them basically told me I was wrong about fees and my peers work for that - when I told them obviously they are not my peers as I have 30 years experience they told me they would remove me from their list. Others are demanding 49 hour turn times on complex appraisals and when you speak with the AMC they have not a clue as to what complex is and have told me I should have figured that out and done all my work in advance to make sure they get the report in 48 hours because that is what they want - how the hell are you going to do that before seeing the home on a complex appraisal - placing an AMC which is stealing my money between me and the lender has done nothing to help me and has reduced my income by 50% so what has this wonderful goverment or appraisal boards done to protect me — nothing!!!!!!

• 142 Nick // Apr 27, 2011 at 2:21 am

  You are so right. Corelogic is the worst of the worst. They are charging $450 to the buyer/seller and paying half that to whatever appraiser is hungry enough to take it.

• 143 Broke Appraiser // Apr 26, 2011 at 7:19 am

  CoreLogic ( Call Center in India ) called me a couple of days ago. They wanted me to do a 1004 with the MC and offered $ 180.00, wow what a insult. I rejected and told them I do not work for free. Why are we the Appraiser’s taking the hit for this. Banks in my area that can order appraisals with out using AMC’s are paying $ 350.00 to $ 450.oo for most 1004 assignments. So what defines Customary? CoreLogic is getting rich off of us. I can’t wait till we can disclose our fee in our report. CoreLogic is also taking our information and building AVM data bases to make more money with.

• 144 Retired Appraiser // Apr 18, 2011 at 12:03 pm

  Forget the boycott site noted above. The hosting company proved to be a dud and the majority of the appraisers who agreed to join the boycott proved to be duds as well.

  I wasted 2 1/2 weeks of my life as well as a few thousand dollars in lost income. Why? Because a large group of appraisers said they were willing to put their careers on the line to fight for their rights. Apparently it sounded better in theory.
  I quickly learned that appraisers love to whine but when it comes to putting in a little effort they’d rather sleep.

  The bottom line is that appraisers will need to lose considerably more to banks before they are truly willing to put up a fight.

• 145 Sean // Apr 18, 2011 at 9:28 am

  Here is a link to a story that gives some direction about filing a complaint. It appears that once a complaint is filed is could take years to sort out. This could not have been the original intention of this legislation.

  http://www.appraiserincome.com/2011/04/12/customary-reasonable-enforcement-3-to-4-years-away/

• 146 David MC Boise, ID. // Apr 17, 2011 at 6:12 pm

  O.K. so where do we file complaints. Just complaining about it isn’t getting us anywhere. We need to start doing something. NOW ! Before we are working for less than we already are. Our government officials are in bed with the banks. At least it sure looks like it.

• 147 Tony // Apr 17, 2011 at 10:29 am

  Everyone must not only accept low fees, but tell every business associate they must not either. Based on VA data/survey market fees for a 1004 ranges from $350-$400 depending where you’re living. No appraiser should accept less. If we all did this they would have no alternative but to pay those fees. Everyone stand up for our rights! Demand market fees and report any AMC who does not pay market fees period!

• 148 Retired Appraiser // Apr 15, 2011 at 9:02 pm

  Here is a link to a National Boycott Against AMCs that was launched this evening:
  http://www.change.org/petitions/national-appraisers-petition-to-boycott-appraisal-management-companies

  Another petition began circulation this week which begs federal regulators to close up the loophole they intentionally created so that banks can continue to rape appraisers.

  The National Boycott Of AMCs is seeking warriers rather than beggers. If you sign the agreement you are demanding alot more from banks than fair fees. You’re also telling the federal regulators how you intend to force an end to the extortion and rape that appraisers were forced to endure for 23 months.

  Don’t sign it unless you’re willing to put in a little effort.

• 149 Robert // Apr 14, 2011 at 7:52 pm

  Appraisers we must act on this and not think for a second that someone will. If we all act we will make a difference. See the above post. Take some time out of your day and let’s do this.

• 150 Robert // Apr 14, 2011 at 7:36 pm

  Appraisers,
  �
  This new email has been sent to me.  I am forwarding it on to you  Please read them and forward on to other appraisers you know.
  �
  Marion
  �
  I received this today from the ASC.  Please take heed and act.!!!
  They are damn well payin attention NOW!!!
  All the best,
  Pat
  �
  From: Claire M. Brooks [mailto:claire@asc.gov]
  Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 12:07 PM
  Subject: RE: AMC fees
  �
  Due to the volume of e-mails received regarding this subject, your e-mail has been forwarded to me for response.
  The appropriate agency to receive your concern about a creditor’s compliance with the Truth in Lending Act (TILA), including the creditor or the creditor’s agent paying an appraiser a customary and responsible fee, is the agency that enforces TILA for the creditor.  If the agent or appraisal management company (AMC) is affiliated with a federally-regulated creditor, the appropriate agency to receive complaints against the AMC is the affiliated creditor’s federal regulator.  If the agent (or AMC) is not affiliated with a federally-regulated creditor, the appropriate agency to receive the complaint is the Federal Trade Commission.  There are two websites that you can use to find the federal regulator for a creditor.
  ·       Federal Reserve System – National Information Center website: http://www.ffiec.gov/nicpubweb/nicweb/nichome.aspx; and
  ·       FDIC website at the “Bank Find” webpage:  http://www2.fdic.gov/idasp/main_bankfind.asp
  Questions regarding the appropriate interpretation of the Truth in Lending Act, including those on customary and reasonable fees, should be directed to the Federal Reserve Board at http://www.federalreserve.gov/feedback.cfm.
  �
  Regards,
  �
  Claire Brooks
  Administrative Officer
  Appraisal Subcommittee
  1401 H Street, NW, Suite 760
  Washington, DC 20005
  (202) 595-7580
  http://www.asc.gov
  �
  �
  Contact Information for Dodd Frank
  �
  Federal Reserve Board complaint line: (888) 851-1920

  Margaret Shanks (202) 452-3584 wants to hear from more appraisers at Fed Reser. Brd

  Jamie Goodsen (202) 452-3667 - she’s one of the attorneys that wrote the C & R provision on Dodd-Frank; recommend you call her only if you have something important to discuss.

  To find you Congressman; https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml.
  To find your Senator; http://www.senate.gov/general/contac…nators_cfm.cfm.
  State representative; http://legis.state.va.us/.
  Federal Reserve Board; Jamie.Z.Goodson@frb.gov, Lorna.M.Neill@frb.gov ; Virginia.Gibbs@frb.gov ; Walter.McEwen@frb.gov ; will.giles@frb.gov.

  The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau will be extremely important going forward.

  There are three kinds of people. Those being nailed to the cross. Those doing the nailing and those who stand by, watch and do nothing.
   

• 151 David MC Boise, ID. // Apr 14, 2011 at 2:27 pm

  Hey Darcy,
  Was it EPIC? If it is they did the same exact thing to me. I don’t get work from them any more. These new appraisers that use to work at McDonalds must think this more than they have ever made in their lives and so they are happy making minimum wage. But we all know they eventually will be gone. You can’t do this buisness for minimum wage and survive. I’ll be glad to see them go. Then maybe we can write our oun ticket.

• 152 DarcyGal01 // Apr 14, 2011 at 2:12 pm

  I just got an offer for $175 for a full 1004. When I requested a higher fee, iMortgage Services stated, and I quote ” If the fee is an issue I have other vendors in the area doing this at this fee.” I love my job and sincerely hope that one day we will earn what we are worth as we have in the past. Incidentially, in suburban Washington DC, $175 is barely a living wage.

• 153 Rob48 // Apr 14, 2011 at 12:59 pm

  Well, I must say, I got some good ideas, but no concrete info on exactly how to file the complaints, since as many have noted, often the lender’s contact info (except address, of course, so I guess we can snail-mail something), is not on the order. I looked at some of the complaint sites, and yes, it looks like you have to have filed a complaint with the actual lender before you can file a complaint with the regulatory agency.

  As to which AMCs in our area (Oregon) are best/worst…Corelogic,Quantrix, Talon (all Chase) are the worst as far as fees and unreasonable expectations. I just accepted one from them after they called back to say they couldn’t find another appraiser,(hmmm…wonder why?)after much negotiation on fees and turn-times they accepted our bid of $650 for a tri-plex. However, it is turning into a nightmare due to their system, so now I remember why (besides fees) I “fired” them before! Streetlinks has been good, actually offering a few dollars more than our posted fees! LSI has not cut our fees yet.

  My idea is that we should try a “boycott” of these AMCs…As in, all appraisers (or as many as we can get) refuse orders from CoreLogic for a specified period of time (maybe the 1st 2 weeks of May or something like that) with the explanation that their fees/expectations are unreasonable. Then, the next month, choose a different AMC to boycott. Maybe then, the AMCs and lenders will get the picture, and the appraisers will not be totally without work during that time, hopefully. If we band together, rather than just sporadically and individually trying to negotiate, it might get us somewhere.

  I see many comments I agree with, and very few I disagree with. Just hoping that we can actually find a way to combat this war on our profession!

• 154 Nancy // Apr 14, 2011 at 12:26 pm

  P.S. if the AMC that is paying $175 was only allowed to charge +10%, or $190 for the service, they would be out of business quicker than the appraiser….they would have way less interest in low balling “reasonable and customary” fees. You the math….and does anyone know where to report violations? My fingers are getting itchy, complaining doesn’t satisfy me, “a little less talk, and a lot more action”.

• 155 Nancy // Apr 14, 2011 at 12:14 pm

  The “reasonable and customary fee” MUST be based on the current market value of the appraisal, i.e. how much is being charged the mortgagor/mortgagee for the appraisal service. If the cost for the appraisal to the mortgagor is $500, that is the “market value of the appraisal”, we should all understand “market value” (that is our job, get on the ball people), an AMC insisting on paying the appraiser a fee of $250 for an appraisal that has a “market value” of $500 is definitely in clear violation of the Dodd/Frank ruling. Particularly when the “reasonable and cutomary fee” was originally around $350.
  I have had homeowners aggressively complain about the appraisal fee, while I am receiving less than I was 2 years ago, the AMC’s are skimming, and need to be reported.
  I’m reading this blog to find ways to accomplish this, and noting AMC’s to avoid, since I’m aquiring new clients whenever possible. There are too many complaints, and not enough information so far.
  My advice is to ignore the “bottom feeding, undercutting appraiser” who is working for $175 or less, pursuing them is hopeless, and may be construed as an antitrust voilation of attempted price fixing. We should all find out what the mortgagor is being charged for that same appraisal, and aggressively report the AMC for violations concerning “reasonable and customary fees” vs. the actual “market value” that is being paid for that appraisal.
  The “market value” of an appraisal has increased significantly in the past two years, while the AMC’s are artificially driving the fees down to way below “reasonable and customary”.
  How many of you are on several AMC lists, and have had your banks switch to the AMC that is paying you less? How many of you have been swamped with work and had to turn assignments down, and in the same week had an AMC sending the orders reduce the fee they are paying once again? This type of action is against all laws of supply and demand, the demand should have increased the price, not lowered it, since when does an appraiser receiving plenty of work lower the fee?
  This same AMC is in violation of anti-trust laws, and requires appraisers who want to be on their “prefered appraiser list” sign a document agreeing to accept fees set (and subject to change) by the AMC. I refused to sign it, and was removed from their list, which amounted to no more orders.
  NO AMC should be allowed to do something a group of appraisers would be prosecuted for doing. NO AMC should be allowed to set the fee they are paying the appraiser to less that 10% of the “market value of the appraisal”, yes , you heard me, 10%. A $350 appraisal would cost the mortgagor $385, no more.
  I haved found an appraiser database, NOT an AMC, that does just that. The appraiser’s set fee, plus 10% is all they charge, and I hope they will round up all the business in my area aggressively undercutting AMC competition by lowering the “market value”, while paying me what is clearly “reasonable and customary”.
  Good Luck out there in appraisal land, and I hope next time I read this page there will be e-mail addresses and advice on how and where to speed up the demise of the illegal activity of the AMCs.

• 156 Las Vegas Appraiser // Apr 14, 2011 at 11:22 am

  The appropriate agency to receive your concern about a creditor’s compliance with the Truth in Lending Act (TILA), including the creditor or the creditor’s agent paying an appraiser a customary and responsible fee, is the agency that enforces TILA for the creditor. If the agent or appraisal management company (AMC) is affiliated with a federally-regulated creditor, the appropriate agency to receive complaints against the AMC is the affiliated creditor’s federal regulator. If the agent (or AMC) is not affiliated with a federally-regulated creditor, the appropriate agency to receive the complaint is the Federal Trade Commission. There are two websites that you can use to find the federal regulator for a creditor.

  Federal Reserve System – National Information Center website: http://www.ffiec.gov/nicpubweb/nicweb/nichome.aspx

  FDIC website at the “Bank Find” webpage: http://www2.fdic.gov/idasp/main_bankfind.asp

  Questions regarding the appropriate interpretation of the Truth in Lending Act, including those on customary and reasonable fees, should be directed to the Federal Reserve Board at http://www.federalreserve.gov/feedback.cfm.

  As more information is available we will post the information on our website (www.asc.gov). You may also register on our website for ASC Agency Updates Email Notices. Email notices will be sent periodically to disseminate important information, including announcements and FAQs relative to the Dodd-Frank Act.

• 157 appraiser // Apr 14, 2011 at 10:30 am

  this is a link for a petition concerning the wording of C & R fee surveys by AMCs
  http://www.petitiononline.com/CnR2011/

• 158 Dave // Apr 14, 2011 at 9:23 am

  As far as reporting AMC’s in which you are currently receiving work - I would think that if you were removed from the list for reporting them the appraiser should be protected by current “Whisle Blower Protections” To me this whole thing screams class action lawsuit!

• 159 Lisa Lance // Apr 14, 2011 at 9:10 am

  Today RELS offered a field review assignment. The scope of work included getting comp photos in a rural area of 25 miles difference between sales all in different directions. They asked for my fee. I requested $400. The RELS rep said she would try to get it approved. I called back 2 hours later and the order was assigned to another appraiser.

• 160 FL Appraiser // Apr 14, 2011 at 7:57 am

  I received a call from ISGN (formerly FISERV) wanting me to accept a 1004 with 1004mc at $168. I quickly advised the call center person from India that I would accept the appraisal order at a fee of $325 and could get out to the property the next day. Needless to say I did not receive the order due to the fee request.
  ISGN is probably the worst of all AMCs and again their main call center is based out of India.

• 161 p from the lou // Apr 14, 2011 at 7:31 am

  So I had an amc(EPIC) send over an order for a 1004 for $200. Property is 1.5 hours away in a rural area and is on over 10 acres. I emailed back saying thank you for the order but please resend the engagement letter showing the correct fee of $400 which is the VA fee for that area and what my peers would charge. She wrote back saying that they are cancelling the order.

  Now the question is…What do I do now? Who do I report this too? I have the paper trail but who is enforcing it?

  Any help would be great.

• 162 Raj Appraiser CA! // Apr 14, 2011 at 7:04 am

  We should hold a rally or boycott session in local city halls near your towns. with picket signs slogans exposing AMC and their true owners. Meet with your local Appraiser Group and plan a rally. Lets us the Frank dodd law to our advantage!!! Local news channel will pickup boycott session. Lets get the consumers (borrowers) involved.

• 163 David // Apr 14, 2011 at 5:32 am

  Here is a petition that is heading to D.C. please review it, sign it (electronically) and forward to other appraisers you know. This is a beginning point.

  http://www.petitiononline.com/CnR2011/petition.html

• 164 loosing battle // Apr 14, 2011 at 3:52 am

  Also the typical 350 - 400 fee was without a 1004MC form. They never added a fee for it in the beginning, but now they deduct if it is not needed.. the real fee should be 375- 425. Nominal fee $25. Has everyone forgotten!

• 165 loosing battle // Apr 14, 2011 at 3:48 am

  With the lack of work here now, you have to be kidding if we have any way to fight this, the new wording by RELs is if you excep this order you are agreeing it is customary and reasonable. If you say no you dont get the order! How slow is it on your end?

• 166 Muckracker // Apr 13, 2011 at 10:28 pm

  Mantra: AMC’s, can not exist without appraisers. AMC’s, can not exist without appraisers. AMC’s, can not exist without appraisers.

  Appraisers can exist with out AMC’s Dodd Frank does not stipulate AMC use. Therefore APPRAISERS have all the POWER. Guns don’t kill people, people do. AMC’s are not killing appraisers, APPRAISERS are. Understand this concept All you have to do is participate in upcomming boycott of low paying AMC’s Read Retired Appraiser post.

• 167 25+ years appraising in California // Apr 13, 2011 at 10:08 pm

  I recently received two appraisal requests from Clear Capital offering $248 for full URAR appraisals with the 2055 MC form. They demanded a two day turn-around time. I quoted the standard fee of $450 and a reasonable turn-around time. I know they will decline but that is fine with me because it is now perfectly clear that it is up to each one of us appraisers to stand up alone and collectively as a group and REFUSE to accept ridiculous fees and turn-around times. I was hoping that we would finally be able to earn a living wage with the passage of the Dodd-Frank bill but I now see that Dodd-Frank is a sad joke and we are once again on our own. The fantasy was fun while it lasted. My fellow appraisers, we need to refuse to accept ridiculous fees, refuse to work for wages that will send us into bankruptcy, and refuse to support but instead expose those who accept fees that only the worst appraisers will accept. Join any group or movement that will boycott AMC’s that refuse to follow the intent and spirit of the law. Boycott any AMC that will not pay reasonable fees. Take any an all legal action you can to report these offenders to the appropriate authorities. Make the media aware of their abuses. There are a very limited number of licensed appraisers in each state. If we refuse to appraiser absurd fees then appraisals will stop and lending will stop. As soon as lending stops not only will consumers but banks, shareholders, Realtors, regulators, brokers, government agencies, the media and many others will look to see what is happening. As soon they discover that AMC’s are not following the intent or spirit of the law, are continuing to charge consumers very high appraisal fees while still refusing to pay appraisers reasonable fees the AMC’s will finally be forced to comply with Dodd-Frank. Appraisers need to individually and collectively boycott all AMC’s that refuse to pay “reasonable and customary” fees. Stop their ability to do business and make money. Their “clients” will not stick with them if they cannot get appraisals / business done. Give them a taste of their own medicine!

• 168 Las Vegas Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 9:23 pm

  PCV, RELS, CoreLogic, valuation partners, they all need to be reported for their lack of compliance. I’ve been in this business for over ten years and things just continue to get worse, work harder for less and less.

  I think I made more as an intern in the 90’s.

  I agree, what type of system is available for appraisers to submit complaints yet stay anonymous.

• 169 The ZenSurfer // Apr 13, 2011 at 8:48 pm

  I’m not seeing any information on how to report CoreLogic, RELS, etc, who to report them to and how to stay anonymous in the process. All of the on-line complaint forms for FDIC, OCC, and FRB are for consumer complaints against a lending institution, not an AMC. Are we supposed to be logging the complaint against BofA who owns Landsafe and CoreLogic? We need a specific mechanism for AMC complaints and protection from retribution.

• 170 Robert // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:42 pm

  PCV still pays $200. For full 1004 appraisals from Citibank! Nations Valuations is $210. US Real Estate Services Just lowered their fees again. These companies should be investigated and shut down. It’s a disgrace and i refuse to work for them. The work product quality for these companies is so terrible, I don’t see how the government believes these AMC’s they are helping at all.

• 171 Mike in San Diego // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:27 pm

  I work for an AMC and we are currently in the process of picking and choosing which loop hole in the Frank Dodd bill suits us best. I couldn’t beat’em so I had to join them. Currently, we’re having staff meeting, after staff meeting in an attempt to keep placement staff, (people who place orders) from saying the wrong thing. I’ve read all of the postings and I feel that the following two methods will have the greatest impact:

  1. Appraisers need to stop accepting orders that pay less than $300 PERIOD. It is only through appraiser acceptance that low fee structures will continue. IT’S UP TO YOU MR. OR MS. APPRAISER!

  2. Use the internet to expose the AMC’s that are non-compliant and use mass e-mails and internet forums to boycott violators. In addition, we all need to start writing our congressional leaders.

  I know it’s difficult because these are economic decisions that affect our families and our future. If we continue to accept low fees, we are essentially negatively affecting or families and our future in the same fashion.

• 172 John - FL Appraiser ! ! ! // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:15 pm

  Appraiser are a unique set of people. I will be alarmed the day all appraisers agree. That said, the problem is the banks. They blamed the appraiser’s in the last downturn. Now, they defer to Wall Street and Appraisers. The banks have powerfull lobbiest as do the Realtors. The Realtors get BPO’s and listings. Doesn’t the government see a conflict??? DA! Who has ownership in the AMC’s??? The Dodd-Frank act will not give appraisers any higher fees. It’s going to pit the appraiser’s against the AMC’s. In the end, the banks will hire appraiser’s for a slightly higher fee than we are getting now and still have control. I have a solution! Let the government be the intermediary (Gov. AMC). I would let them collect $10 out of my appraisal fee of $400-$500. The banks then can hire legitimate reviewer’s and go through Gov. AMC to request legitimate revisions only. Plus, the government could use the money. I pray for us all. God Bless.

• 173 Raj Appraiser CA! // Apr 13, 2011 at 5:56 pm

  This problem with AMC’s low fee 175 -$250 offering and there charging & reporting to borrowers on HUD-1 appraisal fees of $500 - $500. This issue has to reach the consumer and public in general just like most issues come to light and solutions come about when the general public becomes aware of issues. we need to brings these issues to light via You tube publications , local news, maybe even an public rally or strike!! this will generate public awarnes! Rembmber the consumer (borrower) is also being mislead by the lender to true fees for the appraisal report.

• 174 Steve Souza // Apr 13, 2011 at 4:23 pm

  I have had assigned work “cancelled” due to AMC’s claiming my fee was “not” competative/low enough. On the do not work with list today: RELS, Property Sciences, dwellworks. It’s up to you individually to work for peanuts to survive, but in the long run you’re going to be finding yourselves shot in both feet working for less and less, little by little. Say no (hell no) I won’t do an appraisal for $265. from ANY AMC especially when “I know” they’re charging anywhere from $500 to $800. This is in direct violation to FIREEA.

• 175 John Adams // Apr 13, 2011 at 3:23 pm

  LSI says they now consider reasonable & customary to be $237. I increased my fee from $275 to $300 about 5 days ago. We will see.

  PCV Murcor is still offering $200 per assignment. Counter with $300. Sometimes you will get it.

• 176 T in CA // Apr 13, 2011 at 3:14 pm

  I second what Dave said . . . I thought I was going to find a way to formally complain . . . I want an answer to this question as well!

• 177 T in CA // Apr 13, 2011 at 3:12 pm

  Regarding Streetlinks and simply sending them an updated Fee Schedule reflecting customary and reasonable fees (i.e. $350 per job): My fee schedule was changed to $300 for a regular SFR ($50 below what was acceptable YEARS ago!!) . . . and I received NO ORDERS for more than 3 or 4 months!!!! It wasn’t until I lowered my fees that I started receiving work again. Don’t blame the appraisers . . . many of us simply have to put food on the table and keep a roof over our heads! If these AMCs are our only source of income . . . then I’m sorry . . . but all of your ideological mumbo-jumbo goes out the window! Until appraisers as a whole organize (and I’m NOT talking about a union), we will not realize or exercise the power that we actually have! THIS is what we need to do! Not heap blame on other appraisers less fortunate than you who have to accept these terrible fees just to survive.

• 178 Dave // Apr 13, 2011 at 1:04 pm

  I thought this blog was to challenge low fees not complain about them - I only read a couple comments where people did so. I am on a few panels where I don’t accept work - corelogic & landsafe - I want to report them which is the best way?

• 179 David MC Boise, ID. // Apr 13, 2011 at 12:22 pm

  I use to get a quite a bit of work from EPIC, but they told me there is a lady appraiser in my area that is doing 1004 appraisals for $175.00. I have not gotten any work since then. I have one of the people who assign work on tape telling me they will only give me work if I lower my fees to be competive with that woman appraiser. So I have not had a order from them since the first of the year. They know $175.00 isn’t customary, but they are completly ignoring the new law like so many other AMC’S. When is this madness going to stop? they would have us work for nothing if they thought they could get away with it. I don’t know if I can keep in business at this rate. If this is the lady appriser I think it is she is a lousy appraiser. I have done reviews for a company and there is a gal who is always wrong on her value. Getting comps three miles away when there were comparables in the same sub. If I turn the bad appraisals in to my Board maybe they will pull her license and then we won’t have her to deal with her any more. It’s just a thought but how else are we going to get rid of these crappy appraisers who do lousy work and do it for a nominal fee?

• 180 Cert AZ Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 12:09 pm

  Oh, and I agree wholeheartedly with Reviewer. Why should we have to sign up with numerous AMC’s when there is already a national database of appraisers that could be randomly selected by area and the fees be set (like VA?) based on the surveys of customary fees. I know some people don’t want more government control, but it can’t be worse than what we have now.

• 181 Cert AZ Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 11:45 am

  I have been able to make a living keeping my fees at $325+ for non-lender, non-AMC work (no 1004 MC required). A credit union agreed to pay $250 for Field Reviews, which I think is dirt cheap, but they pay timely and send me regular work. I charge more for complex properties. I received a request for Desk Reviews from the same credit union and I quoted them $200. I recieved over 100 orders (within a 2 week period!) and asked that I lower my fees since another appraiser quoted $100!! I begrudgingly agreed to lower my fee to $150, (more for complex properties) due to the pure volume and lack of deadline, and they said okay. I explained that for $100, they would probably get some trainee doing the review and a licensed appraiser would sign off. The auditors at FNMA said that I did good detailed, quality work, so they wanted to keep working together. I was plugging along for a few months, doing the orders, finding that many of the appraisals being reviewed were from seveal years prior and took alot more time than I anticipated. Then I got a call from my client saying that “management” had decided that they wanted to pay the $100 instead, so I said “No thanks” when I wanted to say “WTF!!”. They told me to just finish what I was working on, stop doing the Desk Reviews and continue to do the Field Reviews. I was in shock. Not only had they already filled my e-mail box with orders and appraisal copies, they had “agreed” verbally to accept the $150 fee. Shame on me for not having a written contract, even though I do have e-mails where the fee was discussed. I feel that our agreement is legally binding, but lenders in the past have just cancelled orders and not given me a reason, and I never questioned it. I am DYING to know who the SOB was that undercut the fee. Some appraisers don’t realize that when you do a review, you are taking on the same liability as the original appraiser. Thank goodness I am self employed and been able to find other types of per diem and hourly work (serving on boards, investigating mortgage fraud, etc) because if I had to rely on AMC or lender work I would starve. So you can add me to the WALL OF SHAME and if I find out who the “bottom feeder” was that undercut my fee, I’ll add their name, too.

• 182 John Carlson, ASA // Apr 13, 2011 at 10:06 am

  Lending work has been the majority of my business for over 25 years and I do smaller commercial and residential appraisals. Most of my residential clients were taken from me and I worked hard to obtain good relations with them. I had no part of the brokers wanting a certain value. Underwriters trusted my work. Chase was one of my best clients but no longer. There fee schedule from 1996 is twice what they pay now from Quantrix. Their fee schedule keeps going down but the requirements and time frame is increasing. I used to be in charge of my own work schedule. I do not accept $200 appraisals but there are plenty that do. I have seen adds on Craigs list for $150 up to $1,000,000. I put in my fee of $350 for a standard single family but most orders are taken by the time I try to put in my fee. PCV/Murcor is still $200 for a standard sfr and $230 for a REO. They used to call for appraisals but I had to remove my cell number. I like to see the scope of work prior to accepting an assignment as they will give you a $2,000,000 home for $350 and will not change the fee. For larger homes over a $1,000,000 I typically charge $500 and up. My business have been cut in half over the past few years and the future is not looking good. Everything is going up but our fees. The slow creep of the scope of work is crazy with residential reports being between 25-35 pages. Designations have little to no meaning nor does experience. I like reviewers comments on how do I make the adjustments or provide me with two extra comps that sold in the past 3 months within a mile with adjustments under 10%. If they are out there we would use them. Most reviewers are from another state and many do not have licenses. This business is no longer a profession for being ruined by idiots. Lets vote them all out and solve the housing crisis not continue this madiness.

• 183 Cindy // Apr 13, 2011 at 9:55 am

  I just filed a complaint against Wells Fargo, they are by far the worst in my area. I hope that ALL appraisers will file complaints!! I accept all orders from them conditionally based on receiving a higher fee & more reasonable turn around time. Every single time the order is reassigned to someone else. I could go on & on, but will just say that I agree with the above comments. We need to refuse to work for less….

• 184 Reviewer // Apr 13, 2011 at 9:52 am

  The problem doesn’t start with low fees, it starts with the large number of lenders willing to trade off quality in exchange for a quick, cheap report. It is really no trick to do a quick $200 “appraisal”. All you have to do is sacrifice quality, or be willing to contribute a portion of your time and expertise for free. The solution is to actively push for all appraisals that will enter interstate commerce to be assigned from a central data base in Washington, and back this up with aggressive quality controls to weed out the make-believe appraisers. Attempting reform that leaves lenders or AMCs free to choose appraiser is a waste of time; no matter what they say, most lenders simply want a report that is fast and cheap, and an insurance pocket to run to if the “deal” goes bad later. In a publicly insured environment such as we now have, the role of the appraiser is not to provide a service to the lender, but rather to provide a service to the public; assignment of the appraiser needs to recognize this fact.

• 185 Charles Johnson // Apr 13, 2011 at 9:42 am

  I got a call just yesterday from a woman inquiring about appraiser education classes. Even though I am an appraiser and not an appraisal school. I could barely understand this person because of the accent and she probably works a job for less than $30k. I get inquiries from time to time from people who believe that appraising is a glorious career. Well, it is….but those of us jaded old farts who long for the good old days have to remember that there is a steady stream of new wanna be incompetents that are more than willing to trade their telephone soliciting jobs for their own business as an appraiser. Even at $175 for an appraisal, it is a better wage than what many people are making in this economy. And since all previously split-fee appraisers (trainees AL, etc)are out now on their own, taking a $200 appraisal is probably more profitable than it was in the past working for a fee split. The banks or AMCs don’t give a crap because the E&O page is on every appraisal. They’re supposedly protected even for using totally inept appraisers. They will realize that they get what they pay for. Garbage in - garbage out.

• 186 Chuck // Apr 13, 2011 at 9:29 am

  Several years ago Chase was my main client at about 40% of my business and had been for years. When they went to Quantrix and later Corelogic they dropped the fee they paid to appraisers dramatically but I had no choice but to keep doing work for them or I would have to let people go here in my office. I ended up reducing staff and appraisers anyway due to the slowdown of the economy but have added new full fee clients (it took several years) and am now refusing their low fee and high maintenance work. It is possible but it will take time and a concerted effort can succeed.

• 187 AMC Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 8:51 am

  If you challenge AMC’s, you won’t work for them again. There are no protections for appraisers who challenge fees — and, even if there were — it would be almost impossible to prove that your workload was cut because of the challenge. The only way to change things is to form an Appraiser’s Guild which would set minimum fees and negotiate with the AMC’s as a union. But…what appraiser is going to join such an organization? Or start such an organization? If the guild — like the Wrters Guild of America — is recognized as a union with the power to negotiate minimums by the federal govt, then all appraisers would be required to join. Its really the only way.

• 188 Chris Betcher // Apr 13, 2011 at 8:43 am

  I continue to not understand how these AMCs calculate their supposed customary and reasonable in sight of the fact they are not allowed to use data of the fees they have typically paid over the years. This suggests, IF they are being honest then there are appraisers out there that are charging these same substandard fees to non-AMCs as well.
  I just had ServiceLink order an appraisal from me for $275 for a typical 1004. As I began my research on the subject I found that the property is not typical for the neighborhood having a tax value over $600k in an area where the average home price is approximately $200k at best. I went back to them for a modest fee increase due to the increased complexity of the assignment just to have them cancel the order with me this morning because they are going to re-assign the order to another appraiser.
  The problem is that we still have too many appraisers that are willing to accept work at a third rate fee. Additionally, AMCs do not have any reason to make sure that they go for quality appraisals over cheapest fee appraisals. Over the last five years I have seen my appraisal company go from $250k/annual revenue to less than $10k/annual revenue the last two years in a row. I have gone from seven full time appraisers plus myself to only myself and one other person that works on a job by job basis for me. We have both had to take side jobs outside of our field of expertise just to pay the bills. I love appraising and I would love to stay in the profession but how can I continue to increase the quality of my work year in and year out while continuing to have my fees cut? I cannot.
  My hope is that one of these days ALL of us appraisers will truly band together and show these crooks that they are not in business if we do not exist. If we stand up together we can finally be paid true fair and reasonable fees. I mean the fee for appraisals has not increased in over 20 years for the most part while during that same time the cost for us to conduct our appraisal businesses has continued to increase. While customary and reasonable may be $300-$400 depending on the part of the country you are in what we really need is “Fair and Reasonable” fees which should be much closer to $500-$600 per standard 1004 appraisal.
  We need to find a way to make appraisers that are charging fees in the range of $100-$250 per appraisal understand that they are taking away from the professionalism that our profession should be seen as having. Until we do that nothing will change because as appraisers we are independant so we forget about all the other appraisers we hurt when we charge low fees just to gain more work. If we were all charging the same fees in the same area then clients would begin truly looking for the appraisers that provided the highest quality appraisal. Currently no one cares about the quality of the report. I actually had an AMC client tell me years ago that they preferred sending work to me because of the high quality of my work and reports but that they were being forced from their bosses to send work to the lowest fee appraiser without thought about the quality of the work. This seems backwards if quality is what they claim to sell.
  OK, I think I am done venting

• 189 FL-Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 8:27 am

  A distinguished appraiser has written a petition which asks that the Dodd-Frank law as written be enforced. You can read the petition here

  http://.petitiononline.com/CnR2011/petition.html ( please add ( www ) before petitiononline )

  as well as sign the petition.

• 190 MD Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:56 am

  Rels is owned by Wells Fargo which is governed by the comptroller of the currency. Can every rels appraiser file a complaint nationally against Wells Fargo/RELS? When the complaints add up I have to believe something will happen. Just a thought.

• 191 Texas Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:46 am

  Please Take A Moment To Sign This Petition To The Federal Reserve Board Regarding Customary & Reasonable Fees - Over 1,000 Appraisers Have Already Signed This Petition!

  http://www.petitiononline.com/CnR2011/petition.html

• 192 John Appraiser from N.O. // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:45 am

  I gotta agree. I now have a 4 plex for rental income and am seeking other revenue streams. I hate the fact that thanks to the HVCC I now need those pimps…. for the moment.

• 193 Christine // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:34 am

  Meant to say “SHAME”

• 194 Christine // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:33 am

  Same on any appraisers that are taking lower fees. I know we are and have all been comfortable in our appraisal professions but until we ALL make a change out profession will continue to be a joke. You all need to understand that you may have to work outside of the industry for awhile and only accept appraisal assignments that are paying a resonable fee on a part time basis. I have been doing this for two years now and I sometimes go months without an appraisal assignment but I don’t care because I am hoping that I am making a difference. I would much rather be doing appraisals full time instead of this other job that I have taken but the sacrafice will pay off I hope. Appraisers stop whoring yourselfs out. A $200 appraisal is minimum wage so I guess off your education, licensing and training means nothing to you if you accept these fees. This will NEVER stop until appraisers stop accepting these fees. No one cares we have to. Do not rely on some rule or law or body of government to help becuase they won’t they don’t care.

• 195 AZ Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:28 am

  I experienced the same issue with Nations VS as the FL Appraiser. I also put my regular fees ($350 for 1004), I guess I won’t receive any orders now. Our major problem in Arizona is that there are so many appraisers that have lowered their fees to $150 and $175, any appraiser that has their fees anything near the “real” reasonable and customary fee amount will never see any work. I have been submitting $350 fees for over 2 years to every AMC that requests a fee schedule. To this day, I have yet to receive an order because my fees are way above the $175 to $200 average that the Arizona Appraisers are charging. I have been appraising for 18 years, and I am disgusted to see that these appraisers not only have set this profession back 25 to 30 years, they have turned this profession into the ultimate “bottom feeder profession” there is.

• 196 John Appraiser from N.O. // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:26 am

  I am not sure what to do. I honestly am ashamed to be accepting orders for $255. The problem I have is that I cannot hold out long enough. 45-80% of ALL my oders are from CoreLogic. I am beating the bushes trying to find alternative work so I can raise my fees and help our cause. If I raise my fees right now, the work will stop, my house will foreclose, my 3 kids will be in public school (a nightmare in S. La), and I will be in another job/industry long before the higher fees are ever accepted. I know I will get flamed but this is the reality. Me falling on my sword won’t even be noticed as a blip on the screen by the auto-assign computer at CoreLogic, Street Links etc. I get e-mails about LOW fee orders from Valuation Partners all the time that are ALWAYS gone quicker than I can log in to see them. I have never worked an order for them yet. That’s how many people are there to gobble them 1004’s up at $200. I can only see surviving by getting out of lending work as much as possible. The banks can simply wait us out. As I offset my income I WILL raise my fees but I have to pay my bills right now. I feel like I am powerless in this sometimes.

• 197 Larry A. Bennett, SRA // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:24 am

  I send emails to my area manager with RELS requesting to renegotiate my fee schedule and get no reply. You cannot simply revise your fee schedule with all AMCs. Some, such as RELS, are set in stone and connot be revised by the appraiser. As a side note, my initial acceptance of the reduced fees was based on the anticipation of increased volume which of course never happened. That was more than three years ago. A very recent appraisal that I completed for the reduced fee with RELS was for a friend, I live in a small community, they stated that the fee shown on their lending statement was $525, my fee was $290. Where’s the “truth” in that lending statement? It is obvious that RELS will not attempt to work with Wells Fargo or any of their other recently acquired clients such as Edward Jones, to pay appraisers their customery fees. I advise anyone who asks, do not use a bank for their financing needs, try a credit union first. I hope that we as appraisers and members of private designating institutions will band together and form a stonger lobby group, otherwise we will continue to be subjected to market forces that we have no control over. Good luck to all, if I had it to do over, this would not have been a carreer choice.

• 198 Fed up appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 7:22 am

  If I did as much work as I turn down, I would be doing alright with C & R fees. I keep getting request from Imortgageservices that I conditionally accept orders for a higher fee, but they never accept my fee. They usually try to pay $175 for a URAR w/ MC, what a joke, I never have done one of those. Their most recent dissapointment is, I just turned down a FNMA 2000 reivew w/ 3 additional comps for $100, are you f-ing kidding me. I called them to ask about their fee, I asked if they just took the lowest bidder, but they said their fees are based on appraiser performance, what a LIE! DON’T ACCEPT THESE ASSIGNMENTS!

• 199 Jeff Pitts // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:59 am

  RELS and Corelogic are paying the lowest fees for my area. $305 and $230 when the customary fees for this area is $400. We do not live in a cookie subdivisions here, so it take longer to complete a 1004. Not to mention there are appraisers coming over from other counties to do work where they are not locationally competent at those low fees.

• 200 MN Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:51 am

  I just sent a request to Rels for fee increases on 1004 and 1073 forms to a minimum 15% discounted amount from my normal posted fees. I am pretty sure I won’t get any more work from them but somehow I will survive. I just can’t keep being a smuck and doing work for $255. Accepting any work for less than the $300 fee that was charged when I started 19 YEARS AGO is insane. EVERY expense that I have has gone up in the past year, MLS fees, gas, utilities, office supplies - and they expect me to work for LESS than when I started? We all have to stand up for ourselves. TELL THEM NO NOW!

• 201 Bryan Knowlton // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:50 am

  From what I have heard it is going to be up to 3 or more years for the government to get involved. I guess the states have many years to implement a way to oversee the AMCs. I hope I am not correct, but this whole ‘Customary and Reasonable’ provision is not going to do anything for us…. I guess I already figured that was the case, but at least I was hopeful at one point.

• 202 S.CA Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:39 am

  I figured out how to get paid higher fees. Call al the AMC’s you get orders from and change your profile to your new fees. It’s as simple as that; I have raised my fees to 350 with a LSI and streetlinks and they are still sending orders. Tell all other appraisers how it’s done. The reason they are not paying full fees to most appraisers is because they have simply not called to update the fee they charge fror there product. Think about it why would they pay you 350 for a URAR when your profile still say you are accepting 200 for a URAR. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

• 203 OH Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:32 am

  I think there are two problems we face with the “new” fees some AMC’s are offering. First, if you do the math, most of the fees will enable an appraiser to make a moderately decent living IF that appraiser completes at least 2 full appraisals a day for 50 weeks of the year UNTIL you factor in the lack of employment benefits. I think I figured Corelogics fees would pay about $20/hour with no benefits IF work was steady all year. Work is never steady all year. Second, when an assignment is offered, we don’t always know who the client is making it impossible to file a complaint with the proper authority. I recently had a request which did indicate the client. When I googled that client, I got no results. There needs to be ONE point of contact for filing complaints against the AMC’s regardless of who the client is.

• 204 Len Gladys // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:20 am

  It is too late for appraisers. They have let the government and their elected representatives rape them over in favor of the banks, once again. Big government and big banks have ruined the country and decimated the careers of way too many people. It is time to rethink our government and their money source, the banks

• 205 Don Fiore // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:05 am

  Sign & circulate the petition to the entity that’s at the heart of the problem.

  http://www.petitiononline.com/CnR2011/petition.html

• 206 Joe Kavanagh // Apr 13, 2011 at 6:02 am

  OK fellow appraisers, enough is enough! Now that the Dodds Frank bill has taken hold, all the AMC’s I deal with have stated they are in compliance with the bill. There are a couple I’m approved with, namely Rels (Wells Fargo) and CoreLogic (who, coincidentally owns Rels), that I refuse to do work for. Corelogic is the worst, paying $210 for a full 1004 with a 1004MC. When I called to tell them they are way below customary & reasonable for our area ($355 for a conventional URAR), they simple state they are in conformance with the bill. When I question them further asking if they want quality work, or just cheap work, they respond that they ARE getting very competent appraisals turned in. This tells me this problem is the appraisers’ fault for accepting these low fees! The ONLY WAY to stop this is for us, as appraisers, to turn down these orders and demand they pay customary AND reasonable fees, not customary OR reasonable! WAKE UP. I, for one, am done with this crap. I’m refusing any requests below $300.

• 207 Ken // Apr 13, 2011 at 5:57 am

  United we stand divided we fall! If appraisers continue to accept low fees, we will not succeed. Just a thought, we should post the names of appraisers who are accepting low fees, like a wall of shame.

• 208 fl appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 5:37 am

  Nations VS is asking their existing appraisers to provide them with an updated fee schedule. At the bottom of the fee schedule they ask you to check a box indicating that “the appraiser acknowledges that the fees provided to Nations Valuation Services by the appraiser are considered reasonable and customary in accordance with Section 129E (i) Customary and Reasonable Fee of the Truth and Lending act. “

  When I first applied to Nations VS over a year ago (as well as countless other AMCS) I gave them my fee schedule which reflects the typical fees paid for appraisals within this area. I did not receive any assignments until I lowered my fees to what they told me that “other appraisers” were charging. Now it appears that they are asking us to “acknowledge” that the low fees that we were forced to accept (if we wanted to receive assignments) are reasonable and customary. I don’t think so. I filled out the new fee schedule with the typical reasonable and customary fees for this area. I guess I will not be receiving any future assignments from them.

• 209 Dan Johnson // Apr 13, 2011 at 5:28 am

  If we all ban together and just say NO!! to any fee under $300 for 1 1004, they will have no choice

• 210 Dan Johnson // Apr 13, 2011 at 5:26 am

  Until appraisers just say NO!! this abuse will continue. In Saginaw Michigan it looks like AMC’s are demanding $225 24 hour turn time as R & C. I don’t do them as I do small banks and credit unions for $325-$350. If I had to work for AMC’s I would quit. I’m an SRA, certified general with 28 years. I will report any and all AMC’s that pay less than $300.

• 211 fee appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 4:58 am

  Corelogic has reduced fees to $210 an appraisal in my area as what they fee is fair in a market where 350-400 is typical

• 212 mike dunn // Apr 13, 2011 at 4:56 am

  Corelogic has reduced fees to $210 an appraisal in my area as what they fee is fair in a market where 350-400 is typical

• 213 Tx Appraiser // Apr 13, 2011 at 3:13 am

  PCV Murcor is still sending out $200 appraisals daily from Citibank Mortgage.

  SHAPE UP PCV!

• 214 Retired Appraiser // Apr 9, 2011 at 9:09 am

  Work has begun on a web page for those interested in joining a NATIONAL BOYCOTT AGAINST AMC. Our intent is to force the issue home by creating a buzz in the national media. No appraisers…no appraisals…no mortgage market. If you are serious about embarrassing banks over this issue and correcting the injustice done to both homeowners and appraisers feel free to write to davidf104@aol.com Leave your name, number, and email address. Please note that THIS IS NOT A UNION. We are not currently seeking donations as this is a grass roots. We intend to harnass the power of the internet, network marketing, and the national media. If there is enough interest in ending the rape, we will vote on a plan and crucify AMCs as relentlessly as they have done so to appraisers.

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