Appraiser Talkback Blog

76 responses so far ↓

• 1 James Begg // Mar 18, 2009 at 5:22 am

  This is from an Appraiser with over 20 years of experience. Management Firms might be great for Freddie & Fannie with their lawsuit with Atty General Cuomo, but not with the the Professional Appraiser. Freddie & Frannie still got their books looked into and if you look into the books of management firms in the future, you will find that the Management Firms stole from the Appraisers in the field. If management firms agree to pay you, plan on spending several extra hours per assignment trying to collect. Add those hours to your assignment with stupid questions from “temporary employees/underwriters” and you will be making less than beginner worker at McDonald’s. Yes - There are several honest appraisal management firms out there, but you are better spending your time finding quality clients that trust and appreciate your professionalism in the product you produce for them.

• 2 Tony // Mar 18, 2009 at 9:34 am

  State Certified Appraiser. To all appraisers I got into this business for many reasons. First flexability, a good profession, you can earn a good living and work more to earn more or less to take a breather. I also will not bend or fold to any AMC or other entity forcing me to loose my income because they want to earn trust from a managment company. I am a grown man and do not need to be managed. I just like many others can be honest and do an honest job. The appraisers did not cause the decline or collapse of the real estate market. It was a boom everyone road the train and the builders raised prices until they could not be afforded by many locals or investors. Basic economics! Now if there are many appraisers happy that professionals leave the business so they get more work, they are the ones that should be out of the business. I am honest and work 50 to 70 hours per week to enjoy my God given right to live as well as those who take our money for not doing any work. So I will not take a major cut in pay to work for any AMC I tried it and got $80 per appraisal and had to turn them in two days no later or take a reduction in fee or get no more work. So if an AMC will pay me $350.00 per appraisal or more and not rush me cause that is pressure stress and caused mistakes then I will do it, if not then hire some idiot who sells them selves for pennies. Remember if no one does the appraisal for pennies then we control the out come. It takes years to become an appraiser and that means they have no choice but to pay for your professional service. Eveyone else in real estate gets paid fairly and super fairly, attorney’s agent’s brokers, the banks with closing fees. Our job is the most important so don’t pay me do it your self. Certified Appraiser (PAY ME OR DO YOUR AVM).

• 3 Craig Villa // Mar 18, 2009 at 10:30 am

  The HCVV isn’t worth the paper it’s written on if there are no real consequences to anyone crossing the line. Don’t we already have mortgage fraud laws on the books?? How many executives and politicians have gone to jail for perpetuating mortgage fraud? I don’t think any. The whole HVCC is nothing more than a way for Corporate America to legally steal our fees. And don’t bother looking to your State Appraisal Board or The “Appraisal Foundation” to do anything for us either. I actually believe the Appraisal Foundation may be helping this thing along. Do any of you know what AI read format is? Ask yourself why would the Appraisal Foundation want appraisal reports to be transmitted in a specific format? Could it be that they are GLEANING your reports for info and packaging and reselling “YOUR” report to others? I wonder.

• 4 Tim // Mar 18, 2009 at 10:37 am

  This is from a State Cert. appraiser. The HVCC serves no true purpose for professional appraisers. Let’s not forget the AMC’s(EappraiseIT, LandSafe) which were involved in the first place as to why this legislation was initiated. AMC’s serve only one purpose and that is to profit off of appraiser’s. They charge the same or more to the end user(borrowers), take a large cut for themselves and have little to no liability in the entire process. Let’s also consider the changing business model for appraisers who have taken years to develop their clientele and pride themselves in the appraisals they submit. Lender pressure will always remain whether a single appraiser or an AMC is providing the report. AMC’s won’t want to lose clients and they will do everything they can to pressure appraisers in “hitting the number” or to “overlook” certain characteristics of a property which would hinder it’s ability to fund a loan and if they won’t “play ball” some other AMC will. What are the requirements to set-up an AMC business and why was this not part of the HVCC process?? There, in fact, might be appraiser’s who have lost their license due to violations which start up an AMC. In addition, why don’t AMC’s have a “no charge” policy for getting listed and then take a set percentage or flat fee from each appraisal? If I listed myself on all these so called AMC’s I would be literally broke before even getting 1 appraisal as they don’t guarantee work just a listing!!!

• 5 Jerry Beach // Mar 18, 2009 at 1:12 pm

  I just finished taking the survey and read the comments on this blog. I’ve been appraising for about 14 years now. I don’t have problems with MB’s and LO’s when it comes to pressure to hit predetermined values or “make the deal work”. They get told upfront that what they will get is fair market value as honestly as I can prove it. If they are looking for something else - then go somewhere else.
  I have to agree with James Begg. NOBODY but NOBODY can force you to take lesser fees. And if they require more work (1004MC) or extra addendas etc. then the fee changes and goes up.
  If you - the appraiser - start accepting these lower fees and pressured turn times - then it’s your own fault. It would only take about a month or two of these AMC’s being told NO to their fees and other conditions to bring them to their knees.
  We - the appraiser work force - have the power to keep our profession from being demeaned to the point that no one wants to practice. I just wonder how many will have guts enough to stand up to them.

• 6 Kevin Hollingsworth // Mar 18, 2009 at 8:08 pm

  I have been an appraiser for 30 years but years ago, became disgusted the mortgage appraising…there was always a whore willing to provide the number needed when I wouldn’t. I finally moved entirely away from mortgage appraisals and towards RELOS & private appraisals where I can “call it as I see it”. There is not a prayer I would accept the low AMC fees, a sentiment I imagine most GOOD appraisers have.
  My wife is a sales manager at a C21 office. What we are seeing is a rising trend of incompetent AMC appraisers who grab the first 3 comps they find, and don’t care if the appraised value interferes with a successful transaction. I think this will spawn a new source of income for appraisers…reviewing and appealing defective appraisals for loan officers and Realtors. I already registered the domain “AppraisalAppeal.com”.

• 7 Jack // Mar 18, 2009 at 9:49 pm

  I will refuse to accept an AMC appraisal request that does not meet the time and effort required to complete a professional report. If a significant number of appraisers would do the same, perhaps there would be realization that we will not work for “peanuts”. This probably a fantasy because there are those who will accept an appraisal request for any fee. I am a one man shop and also do appraisals for individuals and relocation work. I can survive without the mortgage work but my income will be less. All my marketing efforts - business contacts over 25 years in the business will be worthless come May 1st. Future mortgage work will not be dictated by ones efforts but some AMC who will be looking for the cheapest appraiser with the quickest turn time. A question I have is how will those who have staff appraisers and have a split fee arrangement going to survive in this coming environment?

• 8 Russell E. Snow // Mar 19, 2009 at 5:59 am

  When I began appraising almost 20 years ago, most of my assignments came from AMCs. I soon found that like everything else there were the good, the bad, and the ugly. Sometimes I think we over react to the ongoing changes imposed upon us, and they are many. In many classes I heard the fears, which I shared, that our profession was finished. I think we will adapt and we will prosper if we remain calm. Work for the good AMC companies and not for the bad. Above all, do not make rash decisions about leaving a great profession.

• 9 Mike // Mar 19, 2009 at 8:39 am

  I have been appraising over 23 years and feel this entire industry is a joke. I consider myself an honest, ethical appraiser. It’s not my job to qualify borrowers. It’s not my job to qualify properties. “it is what it is” and that’s what I report. Most of my work is for local banks. I get no pressure for value, for turn time or fee. These banks have not failed and will not fail and have few foreclosures. First, they know I “tell it like it is”, they respect that and believe the report I produce. If the value is not there, so be it. AMC’s on the other hand don’t believe a word I say. There is always additional requirements, for instance, additional time and effort to support checking the declining box but no time or effort rerquired when checking the stable box. Why is that?. Beat you down so you’ll give up and commit fraud, check the stable box and accept the cheap fee and keep getting assignments. They don’t want appraisers, they want yes men. What do all the failed banks/lender/mortage companies have in common? They all used AMC’s with automated underwriting. The government is a joke, Cuomo is/has been an advisor for AMCO, HVCC is a joke, banking commision is a joke and state appraisal boards are a joke and the appraisal industry is a joke. Get rid of HVCC, get rid of commision based origination and get rid of appraisers who are unable or unwilling to produce an honest report.

• 10 Sharon // Mar 19, 2009 at 12:27 pm

  A 30% pay cut is significant and especially when our liability goes up as of April 1st with the addition of the 1004MC. Third party companies, with no regulating, will have the same ability to pressure an appraiser as the LO does. Recently had an appraiser tell me she did work for a management firm and got a response back that the LO and homeowner thought the appraisal was too low…would she please re-evaluate the appraisal. She did and told them the same thing…she stood by her value. It can almost be guaranteed that she will NEVER receive work from this company again…I would say that was pressure…wouldn’t you? They have no regulation to use the next appraiser up in line…they just choose the ones that can hit the numbers and get the work done as fast as possible. It takes me so much longer to do an appraisal now than it did 10 years ago. I had one firm call me to do an enhanced field review…what, you ask, is an enhanced field review? They wanted a review from back in 2005 and I was to supply three additional comps, scan in all the MLS sheets for the original appraisal and the new comps I chose. They wanted photos of ALL comps. They also wanted a CMA scanned in listing ALL available comps. I asked what they planned to pay…$200…FORGET IT…I told him I would do the work and get it to them within their time frame (about 5 days) for $600. I guess I will be one of those that gets out of the business… We take on the very MOST liability of anyone in the entire sales process from the RE agent to the loan officer and we get paid less than 10% of the fees they receive…crazy…wouldn’t you say? I think this whole thing will blow up in Cuomo’s face. This does nothing but add an additional hand in the pie taking my hard earned money. They still have the same ability to pressure me! If everyone would say NO, we won’t take that low fee then maybe we could all stand together and fight this thing.

• 11 California Appraiser // Mar 22, 2009 at 11:45 am

  In ten years every mortgage broker or loan officer client I ever tried to work with always expected me to provide or accept an “estimated value” before I even got the assignment and eventually all would haggle me for value or ask me to remove unflattering statements on the condition of a house. I stopped dealing with them entirely more than three years ago as the whole corrupt nature of the broker/appraiser relationship became undeniably obvious.

  Those who accept orders from mortgage brokers and commission earning loan officers are clearly ethically challenged and corrupt. The HVCC is a godsend and will at least make significant steps towards ensuring unbiased evaluations. To all of you crooks complaining about the HVCC - your “full fee” has included payola for making the deal slide through and for being in the commission earning sales person’s back pocket. It has not been because the mortgage broker thinks you are such a competent and honest appraiser. Get a freaking clue. Having to pay the “honesty tax” by accepting orders from AMC’s while some crook does the comp check for the broker, agrees to a value before going out to the home and makes 30% or 40% more than I do makes my blood boil but it looks like maybe this economy destroying scam between appraisers and mortgage brokers might just be ending finally.

• 12 Michael C McDaniel // Mar 30, 2009 at 4:49 pm

  I have been Appraising for well over twenty five years now and have seen a lot of changes over the years. This one though is really a big change. What I do not understand is why as an Appraisers we sitting around taking it. I think there are some good parts of the new HVCC, However there are some really not well thought out parts to, however why is it that we as Appraisers are excepted to take the financial hit on this. Way don’t the AMC’s get there fees from the lenders and let us charge or normal fees and do the quality of work we have always done. There is something wrong with the way this is going down. My cost are not going down, In fact this last year my MLS, Insurance, Supplies and out side labor has gone up 25 to 30%. So why are we selling our self’s short. I agree with some of the statements already made relating to fees. If we say NO. My fee is this and your fee is over that amount.

  It’s always the same, the lending industry has in the past done everything to reduce or keep our fees low in relationship to the time involved and the costs to produce an Appraisal Report. This has to stop and it’s only going to stop when we as Appraisers say NO. I have no problem working with an AMC as long as my base fee is paid for the product they are requesting. Think about it. There is nothing saying we have to cut our fees. Its only the AMC that thinks we should and there being pressured by the lending industry. Enough, It’s time to say NO, This is my fee and yours is above that fee. Yes, this will increase fees to the borrowers in the long run, Or will it? Only time will tell. But one thing can tell you is. If an Appraiser can not make money Appraising then they will get out of the business. I truly believe I do a good job for my clients and turn out a quality product and I am not going to give it away, Why are you, does the average Appraiser think little of there time and expertise. If so it’s time you do get out, because I think my time is worth my fee and I think your fees are worth your product also. Charge your full fee and let the AMC charge above that fee our collect it from the lenders.

• 13 Chris // Mar 31, 2009 at 8:48 am

  To California Appraiser,

  You are quite a conceded individual aren’t you? To blanket me and the other thousands of appraisers who accept appraisal assigments from mortgage brokers as “corrupt”, “ethically challenged” “crooks” is just as outlandish as saying that all appraisers who accept assigments from AMC’s are inexperienced, incompetent, desperate yes men who simply don’t know how to properly market themselves and their business in order to get “full fee” clients. The fact is, there are some corrupt, etically challenged, crooks out there that are willing to get any value asked, we all know that, we have all seen them, however, my years of experience has been that the cream rises to the top even in the eyes of mortgage brokers and loan officers once the appraisals of these crooks start being challenged at every turn and they start to realize that these crooks are providing nothing more than a $350 dollar paperweight. I have had many a loan officer come crawling back saying that I was right, there is no sense in stretching a value, now more than ever, because many times the report will get stipped and not end up closing anyway. Does that mean that I am going to be proud and say told you so and not accept any more assigments from them based on principle? As much as would like to, I can’t afford that. So for you or anyone else to sit back on your high horse and call em a crook, well, needless to say, that makes my blood boil and it is simply wrong. You are ignorant, arrogant and a complete joke.

• 14 Robert Dixon // Mar 31, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  After reading the article in the Winter 2009, Working RE, I was angered and very disappointed in your publication. The scenarios presented by the author are distorted and do not tell the true workings of AMC’s as they relate to the everyday appraiser. The typical AMC does not assign the work based on who is most capable of doing the appraisal but it is based mostly on who will do it for the lowest fee and the quickest turnaround time. The adminstrative work required (phone calls, emails, updates and misinterpreted/disregarded correspondence) far exceed current non-AMC assignments. “Experience would tell us” that an extra step along the way creates more confusion, misunderstanding and longer resolution to problems. I have spoken to many appraisers and am still looking for that “hassle free” AMC. This is the reality of the work assignments. It would seem to me that the HVCC was not enacted to produce this type of appraisal environment. In fact, it would seem that this would have a similar, if not worse affect on collateral valuation and the future of lending.

  Mr Chandler appears to be situated in the right spot for his own personal gain as an AMC founder/CEO with the advent of these new regulations. However, being an appraisal publication, I disagree with your decision to grant Mr. Chandler a soap box to spread his rhetoric and half truths about the AMC industry. I fear the day when most appraisal assignments are dominated by large appraisal management companies and the monopoly they will have to cut appraisers fees to whatever they want and the minor role good appraisers will have in determining their own destiny. Sounds like big business licking their chops to me and less like a sound decision to resolve a problem in the industry.

  Respectfully

  Robert Dixon-Partner
  Appraisal Associates of New England

• 15 matt schwartz // Mar 31, 2009 at 5:28 pm

  Let me add my sour opinion of the implications of HVCC third parties to the stack of emails you all must be getting. Regarding AMC’s, this is a cure that is far worse than the disease. I don’t know about your AMC, but many if not most are all outsourced to the philippines and india. These phone monkey grunts are the ones screaming at appraisers to take rear photos on drive by assignments and they will open up your appraisals and make changes and nag you around the clock to submit your appraisal WITHIN FOUR HOURS OF INSPECTION. Non-Appraisers from other countries yet, REVIEWING appraisals, this is just illegal. Ever heard of broadcast appraisal orders? Ugghhhh, Another AMC nightmare coming by the gross.

  I got paid…………80 bucks to do a review of a property in West LA with NEW COMPS, where massive prior appraisal fraud was involved. That was the most difficult assignment I have ever done and I got….80 bucks from e******* to do it. That took me several days to do. AMC’s will pay you WITHOUT REGARD to the complexity of an assignment. They are in it for the money. They will pay absolutely as little as possible, FORCE you to pay enrollment fees, and then pay you 9 months out. What do they care. Ughhh. What a hideous occupation this has become.

• 16 LA-Certified // Apr 1, 2009 at 1:41 am

  First I would like to thank most of the appraisers who have responded here, the truth needs to be told. Except for The California Appraiser who has obviously been unable to establish any good MB/LO relations, that’s OK there is a special place for you. After 25 years I have gone through a lot of changes, been in and out of the professional organizations, worked for large institutions and have had 3 different honorable fee shops in my journey. I some how managed to gain approval with 45 major lenders and institutions, and have never been blacklisted (that I know of), and at least never been sued. I have a solid reputation, I’m honest, hard working, and insist on providing my clients with only quality, comprehensive detailed reports. I don’t think I have ever completed an assignment in less than 3 days (after inspection) and I usually take 5-7 days, nor have I ever been pressured to do so. I’ve established my own fees and built a clientele of honest MBs, Banks, Attorneys, and Accountants, and have never been without work.

  I have never worked for an AMC, and will obviously/most likely not be able to. The HVCC will cost me 60-70% of my existing business and it is doubtful I will be able to survive financially. The cost of maintaining my now 1 man practice will be prohibitive, unless by some miracle I find a situation that will cover the cost of my E&0, Health Insurance, Data Sources, Office and Auto expense, etc.. Well I guess we could move back in with my parents??? (I jest, I’m 52). The integrity lost to many seasoned appraisers will be devastating, but was it really necessary. For now I anticipate having to start over in a new profession, wish me luck.

• 17 Kris Heiser // Apr 1, 2009 at 5:51 am

  It makes my stomach turn thinking about the HVCC and the negative impact it will have on my business. I contacted a Director of the Appraisal Institute Regulatory Board and his comment was for me to call the AFL-CIO. I am not a union guy in general, but apparently we need one to fight back!

  I talked to my appraiser friends here in Florida, and each one of them said YES!

  Anyone else have the thought of a union?

• 18 Ed Goodrum // Apr 1, 2009 at 7:49 am

  HVCC will only insert another fee taker from the client, one that will pay the appraiser less than the fee collected. My question has always been, “How does the HVCC assure integrity?” The HVCC does not assure the public of honesty, nor does it protect the public. There are other appraiser fields, in lieu of Fannie or Freddie. Think about it! No license required for legal fields, trusts, etc. And there are no AMC’s involved. I think the more involved the HVCC becomes, the more appraisers will “retire” from the field of battle. egoodrum@comcast.net

• 19 Dave Sherman // Apr 1, 2009 at 8:16 am

  How can I get a full copy of the HVCC so that I may make a comment on AMCs. I have stayed away from these people but have tried two and have left both with a bitter taste. Appreciate any info on the whole HVCC REPORT. Thank you, Dave

• 20 Jo Ann Hocking // Apr 1, 2009 at 9:11 am

  I have been in the real estate profession since 1978 - as a sales agent, mortgage rep and since 1997 as a state licensed appraiser in Michigan and now in Tennessee. I have trained my share of beginners, fought for my money from lenders, worked under severe pressure, paid fees on top of fees for licenses, con-ed, e&o insurance, etc…I have worked for reputable banks, bottom feeders, AMC’s, attornies, individuals, etc… I have appraised homes, vacant land, waterfront, farms, etc…now I am so stessed over this upcoming October, 2009 FHA dropping me from the roster unless I am certified - that it makes me sick!! How unfair!! I and many other like me have more ‘hands on’ experience then many of the ones making these rules. All of this true experience and knowledge means nothing it seems. Everyone looking for more money from us for additional needless college credits, etc…yet trying to cut our fees while heaping on more ‘pain in the butt’ forms and more liability. I have trained some in the past that are now ‘certified’ and believe me thats not making them more competent - you would be much further ahead with me - a lowly state level appraiser. I was contacted to do a field review by an AMC but was told I had to be certified. Then they called me back and said they were going to assign it to me anyway since there were so few certified appraisrs in my area and the fact that looking at my resume I have more experience, relevant education and references than then anyone on their staff did! That should be the point - experience, not making us jump through all these hoops. Being certified does not automatically make one a better appraiser. Alot of damn good appraisers will be lost due to this certified thing. I absolutely LOVE what I do and I hope I can continue doing it for many years to come - but it seems that the states and the rules and everything else is working against us. Thanks for listening.

• 21 Chuck MIller // Apr 1, 2009 at 10:32 am

  Certified Appraiser rant, What I find most distressing about all this is everyone expects me to do more for less. I still get promises of more work if I can make this appraisal work, I’m still asked to do comp work, but now the brokers want us to call them to see if the value is there so we don’t waste anybody’s time… what about mine? From what I see the implementation of hvcc although delayed means absolutely squat. AMC’S are even worse than the brokers, they are the worst at pressure, fees and reviews etc. I get a fee based on hourly rate which was derived from pure business sense, what it cost me to do business, growth and replacement equals my hourly rate otherwise why be in business. AMC’s ask me my rate and tack on thier fee or expect me to hand over part of my fee or even better yet charge me to submit the report, where did that come from? I find thier expectations of turn around time unrealistic, thier review process idiotic and thier management horrendous, redundent and just plain annoying. When you get 6 people from one company askinig you the same questions on a daily basis somethng is wrong and then they threaten to cut your fee if you don’t exceed their demands. I thought all this legislation and hoo ha was supposed to simplify and lessen the pressure, I guess I had it backwards. I am at the point where internal struggles keep me from calling state and federal banking authority on half of these clowns. Then there is the review process… this doesn’t meet our clients expectations well excuse me since when did my report become based on expected outcome, sounds illegal doesn’t it since I’m required to certify that my work is not based on any expectation of value. I have had some really idiotic reviews returned from clearing houses located in far away states using data that doesn’t suscribe to uspap or my states regulations & standards. the worst part is nobody believes me but are all to willing to believe the scewball 8 states over who has little or no idea that my state is really part of the union or it has a 6 million acre state park smack dab in the middle of it but I must be wrong right… Someting is wrong with this profession, it should be a good one but of all the players involved we get the least amount of money and the brunt of the responsibility, does the broker get sued if the homeowner defaults, does the bank or the attorney or the title company, real estate agent ? nope just us because we gave it a value that the buyer couldn’t support because it needed to be 20% more than its worth to float the note again its our fault, must be right. I don’t know about any other appraiser that reads this but how many times have you recieved an order with words to the effect of max value, need x, minimum value. call with value first or last but not least homeowners estimate of value is.. and then have the broker get all mad and snotty when it doesn’t happen, but the home owner said it was worth… in my opinion all that needs to stop if we are held to the premis that it is what it is then all the inuendo over value needs to dissapear pressure to perform in a way that makes a loan work needs to go to. OK I’m done, just dreaming its still business as usual we need 4 hr turn around time for the expected value…. wink wink..

• 22 Don Betz // Apr 1, 2009 at 7:23 pm

  Certified General…. Did my first fee appraisal in 1964, in the business for over 45 years.. been thru all kinds of recession, one every decade. The 60’s local thrifts failing, 70’s prime rate over 20%, 80’s residential mortgage rate around 15% & RTC closing banks, 90’s Banks/S&L crisis & mergers, but NEVER this BAD (in the 1st Quarter of 2009 I did 11 reports, not even 4 a month, 1st Q of 2008 I did 65, 83% down) and now I’m regulated AND REQUIRED to submit to AVMs.

  In the early 90’s I associated with a regional appraisal firm, we did 59-60 orders a day(staff of 45 appraisers) for equity loans for a regional bank , no pressures or demands from the bank, they really wanted to know what the property was worth, real Appraisals. (You older guys might remember). Until the license law (every real estate wantabe got licensed) and a AMCs surfaced, hired the new licensee and undercut our fees with the bank…..

  In mid 90’s, I joined them… as chief appraiser, I set up a program for a new AMC, had over 1000 appraisers on the hook. After 18 months, I quit in a dispute over my boss’ AMC’s failure and refusal to pay the appraisers’ invoices. Typical AMC, working on the appraiser’s money.
  (I remembered when… one infamous Pittsburg AMC owed ME over $10,000 for appraisals in 1988)

  In the 2000’s along came the greedy mortgage brokers, on every corner, with commission loan originators who screwed the homeowner by bumping up the quoted interest rate and getting kick backs from the money lenders. They are now done… in jail, or back to selling vacuum cleaners and or brushes????

  THERE IS NO NEED AND NO ROOM IN THE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY WHERE COMMISSIONED LOAN ORIGINATORS WHO MAKE DEMANDS

  THERE IS NO NEED AND NO ROOM IN THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY WHERE AMCs MAKE DEMANDS AND RULE US.

  Let’s talk about the Appaiser’s fee… HVCC states that the appraiser cannot collect COD or from the Mortgagor AND the AMC and/or the lender will pay the appraiser “timely” WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

  Let’s talk about the Appaiser’s fee… I now receive a fee of $375 to do a URAR appraisal, with interior pictures, market condition form (1004MC), extra comps and active listings, and…dealing with unknowing processors and underwriters… I spend hours every day educating these people on the FANNIE MAE guidelines or FHA requirements. Ten years ago the fee was $300 to $325 an appraisal.. My cost… insurance, gas, rent, telephone, etc, have since more then doubled. And NOW, the AMC want’s a big piece of my $375 fee… NUTS, What a career…

  The only solution is for the Appraisers is to… UNITE.. LET US ALL GO ON VACATION FOR 60 DAYS…. THAT WOULD PUT THE BANKS, BROKERS AND LENDERS DOWN ON THEIR KNEES, let them rely on AVMs or BPO’s and trainees …to make their $500,000 loans.

  Soon they will come crawling back to US.

  So… WHY NOT….we are not making a living wage NOW, so what have we got to loose.

  I’ll greet you at the local Wal Mart, my new job, where I make more money than doing an appraisal for $200 or $250 while running the tires off of my car, paying $2.15+ a gallon for gas and, on my way to the job, answering the cell phone call from an Indian (the country) clerk asking if I’m done since the appraisal is due tomorrow and how much is the Value.

• 23 J. Fred Baughan // Apr 2, 2009 at 11:59 am

  Thank you Don Betz and all others as I pause from typing another frustrating appraisal report to write some thoughts. The cycles of real estate and the economy that is so effected by it are typically long term. So many experts work so hard to make our profession so over complicated so many times and the same things happen over and over again as it is now. After a boom there is the cloom and the master minds come up with the solutions to fix it but it still doesn’t work in the long run. I believe in old sayings because they usually are true. The simple solution is typically the best solution; however, simple is never going to be unless we make it happen together. Don Betz has a great idea, Strike. Make the public aware of how they get ripped off. Main stream tv should do the trick but who can afford national network time.

• 24 Justin Marks // Apr 2, 2009 at 6:34 pm

  Did anyone read the article in Working RE where Paul Chandler stated, One hundred one man shops is not a profession. Did this guy hit his head? Dentist, accountants, lawyers, chiropractors, the list is endless of one man operated professions. And somehow I missed all the work the AMC’s do to demand up to half of the fee.

  There has never been more intimidation to appraisers then by the AMC’s

  Protect Yourself

  1)Record all your phone calls, ask for email correspondence only.
  (If they don’t like this, WHY would that be)

  2)You will be blacklisted (If you do not take a very low fee)

  3)They will revolve their appraiser list just to starve you now and then to control you.

  4)Payment should never be more then 30 days from the time you complete appraisal.

  ALL appraisers should save now and take off the month of July.

• 25 Jim Gibson // Apr 3, 2009 at 7:33 am

  In the last few months I have joined or been invited to be included on the list of a few AMC’s.
  The following are some examples of what I have experienced. My first assignment for this particular AMC was scheduled at 9:00 a.m. at 9:15 a.m. I received a phone call asking whether or not I had done the inspection. The turn times on ALL of the assignment I have been given or very unrealistic (for me anyway) and I get points reduced from my overall score, I guess if you drop below a certain score they wont use you any more. I feel threatened on every order that I take from verbiage listed in the request, “Failure to meet the deadline could result in less assignment in the future”, “Your compliance is required in order to insure future work”.

  I have been offered assignment for as low as $170.00 which I have refused. On the assignment that I do except I am making on average $150.00 less than I typically would have made.

  I have had to deal with some AMC’s version of Quality Control, here is a great example, I did a 1,600 sqft 2 story with an 800 sqft basement which I had checked as being a full basement, this gal calls me and why I marked the basement as full when it is only half the size of the stated GLA?

  I have been self employed for 10 years and I made decent money, I try to do about 15 appraisals a month out of my own company, now I am an employee with no benefits doing more assignment in order to make the same amount of income. I am not sure if appraising can still be called a Profession.

  As appraisers, we can make a difference if we refuse the fee’s offered and we refuse to be bullied into rushing our work, I know appeasers can do work very quickly, but I need time and apparently that is something I am running out of.

• 26 Craig Butterfield // Apr 3, 2009 at 2:59 pm

  Date: Friday, April 03, 2009 05:17 pm
  Subject: Last Chance to STOP the HVCC

  Hello Appraisers,

  The HVCC takes effect (May 1st 2009). It is our last chance to be heard. It is also time to make our march to Capitol Hill to get Congress’ listening ear, and demand a Congressional investigation into the HVCC and put a STOP to it. For those appraisers who understand that the HVCC will permanently damage our profession, then we must meet in DC at least 10 days prior to HVCC D-Day 05/01/09. I will compile a list of responsive appraisers who are prepared to make this trip.

  I have brought the very last paragraph from the below dissertation; and placed it HERE for emphasis:
  ———————————————————————————————————————–
  Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie Execs; Citicorp, Bear Stearns, Shearson Lehman Execs, and even former Air Force Generals, and a veritable who’s who in America sit on the boards of AMC’s: FARES/FIDELITY,FI-SERVE,Velocity and AMCO.

  There may be 5 million or more home loans made in the U.S. in 2009. That number times $200-$250 per job skimmed from our appraisal fees by these big time AMC industry players is very big money; “our money”.

  The amount of money that is going to THEM, and being taken from US; equates to about 1 billion annually for the work WE perform, that THEY will be compensated for. (Read Below)

  Lets STOP the HVCC, and make ourselves heard in Washington the 2nd-3rd week of April.
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

  From General Appraiser Butterfield, (954-929-6094)

  Please read the attachments, and…”Follow the money”
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————-
  Hello Appraisal Board Members from General Appraiser Craig Butterfield.

  Subject: Exposing and defeating the HVCC (Home Valuation Code of Conduct)

  This is the complete and updated package of evidence that may very well put a halt to AMC’s and the HVCC. I am, once again, resending this to about 200+ state board members in all 50 states, and Puerto Rico. To date I have spoken’ with around 40 to 50 state board members on the phone, all of last week and this week. As you may be aware there are lawsuits in progress: NAMB versus the HVCC, and there are suits against Countrywide and Rels for fee skimming and/or blacklisting.

  I can and am most willing to be the liason to help Appraisal and Real Estate Board members intercommunicate with eachother in other states who are taking AMC’s and the HVCC as a serious threat to our livelihood. Please contact me anytime. I will get interested, assertive and concerned board members together state to state.

  The AARO meeting (Association of Appraiser Regulatory Officials) was last WEEKEND in New Orleans. Hopefully some positive action was made to combat the HVCCs problem. If you have not seen the HVCC as a problem. I trust you will see the HVCC for what it is; a sham, by some very wealthy people, to control one more aspect of business in America. Take some serious time digesting all this information below please. Get with the appraisal and Real Estate board attorneys and your state attorney generals, as they will be able to help. The information presented herein will inform and prepare you in a final effort at defeating the HVCCt.
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  We can and we MUST stop AMC’s: Our fees and turnaround times have been cut in 1/2 or even worse in the past ten years. Additionally the HVCC will take away any opportunity to maintain ones own client base - No clients = No business. If the key big three AMC’s in the U.S. say that: “We are not adding any more appraisers to our approved panel”, then plain and simple; your career as a residential appraiser is over.

  State Boards: Again I urge you to NOT register and regulate AMC’s and therefore legitimize their activities. OUTLAW them. It is imperative to mandate that anyone involved in the appraisal process must be a Certified Appraiser, licenced in the state they perform appraisal services, and be the majority owner of the company. Tens of thousands of jobs are at stake in the appraisal and mortgage industries; possibly as many as 2 million jobs. Appraisal reveiw is already being out-sourced overseas.
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  Please read all of these attachments. It will take you less than 90 minutes. It has taken me a year, here and there to research and gather all of this documentation.

  The synopsis of; “what’s really going on” is seen in the FARES/FIDELITY antitrust attachment.
  —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  Understand that three AMC’s (FARES/FIDELITY and FISERVE) all run by billionaire Title Insurance Titans are taking over our profession, and already control upwards of 90% of all appraisal and title work in the US (See FARES/FIDELITY attachment).

  All the evidence is in the links on the attached PDF’s. I do have more evidence in file; but what I am sending is in itself, while perhaps overwhelming to some; quite well documented, and more than enough to make a sound legal argument.
  ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  FIDELITY COMPANIES: William Foley Chairman and CEO of Lenders Services Inc (LSI)/Service link (Fidelity companies) compensation last year was $179,000,000.00. That’s 179 MILLION dollars. Mr. Foley is #4 on Forbes list of the most highly Compensated Executives in the US. His company after the Land America merger expects to do 50% of all title/appraisal managment in the US. (See Title Firms Merger attachment - Last Paragraph) Several Fidelity Companies are TAVMA members and the chairman of TAVMA this year is an SVP with Fidelity; Bill Sussman.
  ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
  These people I allege have engineered, conspired and colluded the takeover of the appraisal industry from the get go with their *TAVMA (Est:1987) allies *(Title Appraisal Vendor Management Association). Please visit the TAVMA site. These are the companies that have ramrodded appraisers for 24 hour turn times, for fees under $200.00. There is no way to verify sales data, or write a clean, well thought out appraisal report under such demand to “produce” at the blink of an eye.
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  FARES: Parker Kennedy, Chairman/CEO of FARES (First American), and a TAVMA member has joint ventured (JV) AMC’s with 5 of the 6 largest banks in the US.:

  FARES is the nations Largest Title Insuror and AMC through JV’s

  1) Citibank + /FARES JV AMC = (Finiti)
  2) JP Morgan Chase + FARES = (Quantrix).
  3) Wells Fargo is in a JV with FARES: Rels is their AMC
  4) Wachovia has now been absorbed by Wells Fargo
  5) Wamu and FARES = e Apprazit. (WAMU has now been absorbed by JP Morgan Chase)

  You will see that George Argyros is a director at Freddie Mac and sits on FARES’s board of Directors as well. Conflict; I dare say, in light of this HVCC agreement.
  2007 FARES Compensation: $141,995… 2006 FARES Compensation: $176,301, ‘08-’09 (est @$300,000) - 4 year total = $618,296 (Coffee money for George)
  Net Worth: 1.8 Billion - #271 - Forbes (See 3 Argyros attachments). It’s all quid pro quo with these people, I help you monopolize the appraisal industry, Then it’s Hey HUD man, I need $100,000,000 to fund my new low rent housing project. “Affordable housing”, they call it. The owners of many of these “projects” are worth billions.
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
  These are the major top 5 national banks in the US. The only other major national bank left is Bank of America, and they now own Countrywide/Landsafe.
  Landsafe is a TAVMA member and Donald Blanchard was it’s Chairman last year (see attached).
  ————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  FI-SERVE: Gerald J Levy - (See attached) is a board director in Fi-Serve (AMC-TAVMA) and also heads: The League of Savings Institutions:
  2007 Compensation from Fi-Serve: $157,223 2006 Compensation from Fi-Serve: $149,919/ ‘08-’09 (est @$300,000) - 4 year total = $607,142

  FI-SERVE: Daniel Kearny- (See attached) served as the President of Ginnie Mae (Ginnie Mae is the lending conduit for HUD). Kearney is on the board of Fi-Serve. . 2007 compensation from Fi-Serve: $175,223. 2006 compensation from Fi-Serve: $163,419. ‘08-’09 Unknown (est @$325,000) - 4 year Total = $663,642
  Director MGIC, 2007 compensation: $313,856
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
  First, it was determined by the Appraisal Foundation that an appraiser could only supervise three trainees; and appraisal shops were splintered from real business enterprises to mom and pop shops; to ultimatly make us into individual practioneers working for the AMC’s. The HVCC is the final nail in the coffin to wrap up their control of the appraisal industry.They engineered it from day one; 1987. (A 20 to 25 year plan to consolidate control of the appraisal industry). Ever wonder why YOU are now always asked to personally inspect the property, when FIRREA and USPAP do not require you to, and your trainee could. Wonder no more!
  —————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  10+ people involved in TAVMA are billionaires who I allege are in cahoots with Freddie/Fannie top execs; Daniel Mudd (20.77 million - #202 Forbes- see att) and Richard Syron; ($20 Million for ‘07), #374 on Forbes 500 list of highest paid executives whom were two of the four signatories to the HVCC document. The other two signatories are Andrew Coumo, and James Lockhart of HUD; Coumo was the former director of HUD. Atty Gen Coumo launched an investigation of wrongdoings by AMC e-Apprazit (A FARES co.), then within 1 year mandated that only AMC’s can order appraisals and mortgage brokers could not through this HVCC aggreement. The fox was hired to guard the henhouse. As one appraiser stated, it is like hiring a pedophile to run the daycare.
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
  Coumo; NY atty Gen; was/is legal council for an AMC named AMCO; Edward J. Davidson is Chairman - CEO of AMCO, now known as:Valuation Services LLC. Davidson is a consultant to Fannie Mae and MGIC. (Click on AMCO - on the Davidson attachment and it will link you to Valuation Services LLC). Davidsons company was financed into existance with a 2 million dollar funding by Access Capital - A NY based lender - Please google them up. Also please see Apgar attachment. Apgar joins Coumo at AMCO (Apgar was a former HUD Commisioner). Three former directors of FHA are on AMCO’s legal advisory council: Coumo, Jack Kemp, and William Apgar.
  ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  We need some Attorney Generals to investigate, and possibly indict NY Attorney General Andrew Coumo (and friends) for counts of: 1) bribery (We are offering you $$$ to create this HVCC agreement; and you, Coumo, have taken compensation for same), 2) conspiracy, 3) collusion, 4) tortious interference, 5) restraint of trade, 6) unfair trade practices, 7) price fixing (apraisers fees), consumer fraud (fee Skimming), 9) extortion (The withholding of appraisal fees or make our numbers appraiser; change these comps or be blacklisted), 10) RICO and other counts as the legal practioneers determine… We are contacting them too; state by state.
  ———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
  Wake up and smell this coffee; it STINKS. Take a breather; READ the attachments. Click on the links; it is all there in Black and White, and sometimes in living color. There is no more mystery what-so-ever as to what is going on in our appraisal industry; it’s all on the table.
  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————
  There are STILL states rights, though the Federal gov’t and the boyz are doing their darndest to get rid of them. Job creation? Don’t for one minute buy into that hogwash.

  Having said that we can outlaw AMC’s state by state on a state appraiser board level.

  ———————————————————————————
  Here’s how we stop AMC’s - Not just the HVCC, but AMC’s period.

  The persons who are running our state licensing boards are themselves appraisers.

  Once you understand what is actually going on in our industry; you will quickly and easily conclude that your careers are threatened as well.

  We are done, if we do not remove AMC’s from the picture.

  You can enact rulings on a state level without congressional or senate approval; at the departmental level of our licensing boards.

  Additionally; one of the 8 functions of Real Estate that one can perform by virtue of having a Real Estate licence is found in the Acroynym: ABARSALE.

  Based upon that acronym, that I remember to this day, when I first got licensed back in 1986; the privilege of RE licensure is broken out as follows: When brokering services for a third party, when one expects to receive compensation, (based upon Real Estate Law, at least in Florida, and perhaps in your state), one cannot, without holding a Real Estate license.

  Advertise, Buy, Appraise, Rent, Sell, Auction, Lease, or Exchange (Eight Services of Real Estate Florida) from a google search. (ABARSALE) I have registered a formal complaint with the Florida DBPR, and they are looking closely at it. Time will tell

  RESPA; truth in lending laws and RE Brokerage laws are presently being violated as, a closing statement may state that an appraisal fee is $400.00 or $500.00, yet the appraiser may be compensated 1/3 to 1/2 of that; and that is FRAUD. If the AMC takes the remainder, they are most certainly receiving compensation, and performing one of said 8 services of Real Estate (in Florida).

  Appraiser Boards, please communicate with YOUR Real Estate Boards, and see if existing laws prohibit an AMC from doing business in your state.

  ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
  If we desire Appraiser Independence; we should be able to maintain our own client base as any professional, and we can police our licensed appraisers by revoking licenses of the bad apples through our state appraisal boards. No appraiser should ever be blacklisted. I do however, have published blacklists in file in excess of 25,000 appraisers from these major banks. Appraisers who do not make the numbers, or refuse to drop their fees are the first ones blacklisted. There will be no Appraiser Indepencence if AMC’s are allowed to rule our industry.

  There will ultimatly be no appraisers at all as the AMC’s goals are to do automated valuation models (AVM’s). Yet, they will still charge the home owner/borrower, for an appraisal fee. If this HVCC comes to fruition, another round of economic disaster will be seen in the US, before its ultimate demise. Appraisers/Appraisals are a very important link to ensure checks and balances in the financial markets. FARES/FIDELY and FI-Serve are simply just another AIG…., and YES, there are ties to AIG as well (See unanswered questions attachment; page 1) AIG is the primary underwriter for appraisers E and O insurance, and said insurance rates have increased 30 to 40% over the past two years,

  ——————————————————————————

  Appraisers/Appraisals are a neccesary tool to protect homeowners from fraud. Appraisers did not cause the present financial devistation in America; the Fed engineered it; but that is another story, or perhaps simply another chapter to this story (see press release attachment).

  ———————————————————————————————————————————————————–

  The ruling to eradicate AMC’s on a state level that I have composed is seen in on page 4; last paragraph of the FARES/FIDELITY/Fi-Serve attachment - The RULING I suggest essentially parrots; RE Law; wherein a lay person cannot collect a commision for selling a home; any more than a layperson can practice law or dentistry without adequate schooling, apprenticeship or passing a qualilifications exam. These attachments should be all that will be needed to provide the needed wake up call to arms.

  ——————

  (Please also see FIRREA notated (attached), pages 5-6, which states that - A bank MUST take an appraisers appraisal, when coming via an agency relationship)

  (There is no such thing as “an Approved Appraiser list”. If an appraiser can evidence competancy to perform the assignment, they MUST take the appraisal)

  (The Appraisal Institute (AI) is complicit in reversing this free trade FIRREA/12 CFR part 34 legislation on both state and federal levels; and is pushing legislation everywhere to favor their membership; but for the time being, in light of the bigger fish to fry; it is best to have the AI as an ally - but they are next on the list; believe me)

  FIRREA/12 CFR 34 is/are the appraisers “Constitution”, The Appraisal Institute, & The Appraisal Foundation are dismantling it, as the Feds are dismantling the real one.

  ——————————————

  Thanks….and just say NO!

  NO more to Corporate American greed destroying our country, and the livelihood of hard working Americans!

  We make less, if we work at all, and OUR ever increasing tax dollars go to support THEIR bonus’s.

  Craig H. Butterfield - Founder - Appraisalunion.org Please see Appraisal Foundation (Est: 1987) - Industry Advisory Council PDF (attached)State Certified General Appraiser # RZ-1063 (FL) (If you have read this far - It will come as no surprise to you at all)
  http://www.butterfieldappraisals.com Please forward this E mail to the appraisal community, media and Anti-Trust, & Criminal Law firms
  Ph. - 954.929.6094

  PS; and if all this so far hasn’t tweaked your ear, and set you to boil; then lastly; see the Press Release attachment that I wrote last year which will give you the needed insight to see WHY the Real Estate Settlements and Procedure Act (RESPA) law is being changed regarding “Bundling the Closing Statement”. (aka Burying the Appraisal fee). That can be found on page 3 of the Press Release (att) under Shawn McGowan links. (CEO of AMC Velocity/formerly w/ e Apprazit, and Chairman of the Industry Advisory Council of the Appraisal Foundation). I’ve also included links here:. http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-bodies-offices-legislative/5611415-1.html ……and here: (Ready to Bundle Article by McGowan): http://www.allbusiness.com/finance/3596467-1.html.

  McGowan writes about how confused (”Mystified; he states”) a consumer is at being able to differentiate an appraisal fee, from a title closing fee, from a credit check; fee; on a closing statement, So McGowan wrote an article to wrap these fees all into one bundle; and former HUD Secretary Alphonzo Jackson spearheaded the change in the RESPA statement to “Bundle those costs”.

  An excerpt from my earlier press release (attached) states “McGowansÂ’ ideology — “Mr. Grocer, how much were those apples? – McGowan states, it doesnÂ’t matter, itÂ’s included in the price of the milk, and cheese, and at only 100 dollars – why ask?

  McGowan, last years Chairman of the Industry Advisory Council to The Appraisal Foundation; this years Trustee to the AF, and CEO of: AMC Velocity, and a member of the TAVMA cartel are: Title insurors/AMC’s, and they sell appraisal/title and credit checks!

  They clearly do not represent the interests of: “Joe or Joni, the appraiser”, nor do they represent consumer interests, but they do indeed represent their interests: $Money$, $$Money$$, and more $$$Money$$$, is where their interests begin and end.

  For a brief moment, I pondered writing Mel Martinez, my Florida Senator; but, he too, is a former Director of HUD. Incestuous relationships are to be found at every level.

  ….. Fannie/Freddie/Ginnie Execs; Citicorp, Bear Stearns, Shearson Lehman Execs, and even former Air Force Generals, and a veritable-virtual who’s who in America sit on the boards of AMC’s: FARES/FIDELITY,FI-SERVE,Velocity and AMCO. There may be 5 million or more home loans made in the U.S. this year. That number times $200-$250 per job skimmed from our appraisal fees by these big industry players is very big money; “our money”. The amount of money that is going to “THEM”, and being taken from “US; equates to about 1 billion annually for the work “WE” perform, that “THEY” will be comensated for.

  Lets STOP the HVCC, and plan our march on Congressional Hill -Now!

  Attachments: Text version of this message. (22KB)
  Fares-Fidelity-Antitrust-Rev.pdf (141KB)
  George Argyros.pdf (129KB)
  Title firms’ merger creates titan - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.pdf (342KB)
  Daniel P. Kearney Profile - Forbes.com.pdf (354KB)
  Gerald J. Levy Profile - Forbes.com.pdf (237KB)
  Apgar Joins Cuomo on AMCO’s Advisory Board.pdf (48KB)
  Person Profile_ Edward Davidson.pdf (125KB)
  Appraisal Foundation-2009- IndustryAdvisoryCouncil.pdf (122KB)
  TAVMA — Volunteer Leadership Opportunities Web Site — Blanchard.pdf (146KB)
  FIRREA-FinalRenditionNotated-Revised.pdf (87KB)
  Andrew Cuomo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.pdf (680KB)
  15_mortfraudAMCO.pdf (904KB)
  Unanswered Questions about Andrew Cuomo.pdf (302KB)
  #4 William P Foley II - Forbes.com.pdf (279KB)
  PressReleaseRevised.pdf (158KB)
  Valocity’s Shawn McGowan Elected to Appraisal Foundation Board of Trustees. .pdf (220KB)
  ReadyToBundle.pdf (152KB)
  #271 George Argyros - Forbes.com.pdf (192KB)
  George L. Argyros Profile - Forbes.com.pdf (255KB)
  #202 Daniel H Mudd - Forbes.com.pdf (291KB)
  Freddie Mac CEO got $19.8 million in ‘07 - Mortgage Mess- msnbc.com.pdf (332KB)

• 27 Tim // Apr 6, 2009 at 12:43 pm

  Get Em’ Craig…..

  I’m convinced the turn times are all due to the competition between AMC’s. Really ….can a seller be ready close and move their stuff in 10 days ? Is a buyer ready to give 10 day notice and move their stuff ? Its all a bunch of crap. Craig is on the money with his info folks and it doesn’t take a lot of digging to confirm it. However, before you go to your individual state boards be sure you know who is on them. The Florida Board just filled a vacant seat with a BOA Staff appraiser, another seat member is a conusltant for JP Morgan. I guess as soon as another seat opens up we can give that to soemone from Wells Fargo. The AI has had influence over the Florida Board for years. If you look at the discipline reporting going back to state certification the % (or lack thereof) is amazing. Forget about Mel Martinez though Craig, and most of our other “representatives”, from the Fl AG all the way down the money has been spread pretty well and for a pretty long time. The HVCC is just a giant business grab and monopoly move. I am starting to wonder if this whole financial crisis may have somehow been planned (?)

  Check out; “The Best Way to Rob a Bank is To Own One” on you-tube.

• 28 Tracy // Apr 6, 2009 at 5:00 pm

  Can anyone tell me why the appraiser has to pay for the AMC. Why not establish thier own fee to add to closing costs. This has stopped the lender pressure on us but now we have AMC’s cutting us off if we dont except thier low fees. We are required to become more educated and give more detail to our reports for a lower fee and then in our spare time we can address the ridiculous list of second guessing from the review AMCer on the other side of the country?!?!

• 29 Daniel J. Bizzoco // Apr 7, 2009 at 6:57 am

  I was on my train commuting home and my temperature was 98 degress, but after reading two articles in the Winter 2009 issue, my temperature was at a boiling point by the time I reached my station. What the heck is going on around here?

  I have been in the appraisal industry for 30 years with residential experience having been several decades ago….so I know the residential industry has changed dramatically since I was performing single-family appraisals. But when I start reading that AMCs, servicing agents and alilke, are altering appraisals….it blows me away. No one has the right to alter an appraisal, except the appraiser! Also, since when has (and I quote)…”Inspection photographs and data on sales are more critical to the lender in many cases than the appraisal conclusion.” (as cited by Paul Chandler) I always thought the analysis and appraisal conclusion WERE the most important aspects of an any appraisal! (am I missing something?)

  In the age of technology and improved transparency, you would think that the appraisal process have become better. But then again, cost and timing have become the most critical aspects of an appraisal. Over the years, many layers have been added to the appraisal process with people/companies who have no idea what goes into an appraisal, or what it all means. There is no question in my mind that quality has become secondary. Now that the markets have gone south, everyone is pointing fingers at the appraiser…AGAIN. Please, stop it! What happened to all the deals that were done with 95% or higher financing, or better yet…no income verification loans…who thought of that?

  By way, there are unscrupulous people found in all-walks of life and in every industry, and the appraisal industry is not immune. I know that everyone is not to blame and I am not here to criticize everyone, but in this case, it appears that with more people involved in a process, the more things have gone wrong versus getting it right. At this point, some one should start handing out the bleach tables….TO WAKE UP….before its too late and another round of rules and regulations are enforced. But it’s probably too late for that…considering where we were and where we currently are.

• 30 Tim // Apr 7, 2009 at 9:03 am

  “Feedback on AMC’s”…….a seperate area dedicated to posting about specific AMC’s BY their NAME. If we have to pick some of these folks to work with it would be nice to know a little something about them. With over 250 AMC’s out there right now appraisers need the “data” on them. Expected fee split, turn time, reporting requirements, ease of use, and I suggest even give them a star rating. Most of the nonsense appraisers are faced with in working with these groups are the competition between THEM. It has nothing to do with appraisers trying to compete with appraisers, by now we are all up to speed on exhaustive reporting, ASAP turn times (even when it is unecessary), stupid conditions, and a whole host of technology and education investments above and beyond continuing Ed. Lets see what AMC’s have to OFFER US ? Out em’, put their business in the street. Let everyone know individual experiences so that others don’t have to waste their time and money.

  How about it WorkingRE ? A wealth of information for all appraisers to access before making a decision.

• 31 Michael McCully // Apr 7, 2009 at 9:05 am

  Where are the professional appraisal departments of banks with whom we had a professional appraisal relationship? Our opinions were valued. Now the market has collapsed. I wonder why…AMC’s?

  Anyone one else see some appraisers using unlicensed individual do all the work in places far removed from their office? So much for competency and honesty.

  Seems like a number of AMC’s are indepentently owned by major finance companies who also own the appraisal software companies… hmmm!

  In my opinion the AMC’s diminish the appraisal profession. Try explaining an appraisal problem to a telephone clerk living in another state.

  Can not afford to live on AMC fees AND deliver a professional report. So much for “INDEPENDENT” fee appraiser. Maybe I’ll go back to the commercial side of appraising. Or are they next?. Time to explore another profession as others have indicated they’ll be doing.

• 32 Tim // Apr 7, 2009 at 11:01 am

  Michael,

  Read Craig Butterfields post. Lenders, combined with a particular title company, has spawned the 5 Big AMC’s. The HVCC is a control mechanism over the apraisal industry and an out right gutting of the mortgage brokerage business. The HVCC came about from the WAMU and EAppraise-It (now RELS) relationship that resulted in revealing of mass fraud. FNMA/FHLMC settled with the AG of New York who filed suit against them for inclusion in this little scam. However, the New York AG appears to be complicit in the implementation of the HVCC as he has some percieved conflict of interest. The result; the regulators are all in huff and in a podium pounding, suspender snapping tizzy over “mortgage fraud”. Of course, their perception is that the fraud HAD to have occured between mortgage brokers and appraisers having “direct contact”. At least that was the opinion they were told to use when they cashed their campaign contribution checks from all the big banking lobbies. Banks want TOTAL control of the mortgage and VALUATION industry. Of course, there is another matter of the side benefit of having all that data to repackage and sell. Think this new MCS form has anything to do “market value”, NO. Case-Shiller, FHFA, NAR or any of the big indexes are “historical” and when they are released its 90 days down the line. Collecting MCS data will bring numbers current so they can more easily identify the trend line. The appraisal profession is now made up of; State Certified Statistical Data Collectors. The compensation structure from the AMC’s sort of underlines that fact.

  Again ….A part of this blog forum to post experiences with specific AMC’s by name would go a long way in helping us all understand. As an industry we may not be able to go on a Nationwide “strike” however, we can boycott the worst of these AMC’s and then try and negotiate with the ones that are left, for better or worse.

  Sorry to stray Michael…the shot answer is your former Bank client saw a way to make some extra dough and took it. Besides it really hasn’t cost them anything……………yet.

• 33 Miles E. // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:06 am

  Greetings folks,

  I would just like to through my 2 cents in to sweeten the pot. I am a independent residential appraiser who has just recently been certified. It has taken me 5 years of my life to get this certification & a number of hoops to jump through. The Idea that some middleman is going to be stepping on my toes makes me furious.. I produce a quality report no matter what the fee & the turn around time but I can tell you that I’m pissed when I’m getting paid half of what my work is worth. I can also say that the way these AMC’s treat appraisers is a shame & disgrace. The way they email all the appraisers available at once to let them know there is a property to be appraised and the one who is quick enough to reply back & except the lowest fee gets it. like a dried up bone to a pack of hungry dogs. The appraisers need to refuse this work for such low fee’s. If everyone did it then they would have to increase. Name one other profession that would allow this type of non-sense to go on. None… I don’t know about the rest of you but I worked extremely hard to get this certification and I will not be bullied in to lesser life style by some jackass managment companies.

  I guess what I’m trying to say here is “don’t mess with our fee’s” If you, as a managment company, need to get paid for your services then you need speak with the entitiy that you are providing managment for. Not us the appraisers.. So, as we like to say in my part of town “step off”

• 34 California Appraiser Fool // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:52 am

  This is a 25 year appraiser responding to the California Appraiser Whom I will have to insult as a fool. Here is my short response to you. Your blog states everyone is a dishonest fool in the appraisal business making the numbers for the brokers. See many other blogs in here tell you that they are honest and deserve their fair pay. You are willing to take a pay cut so someone else get benifet off of your hard work. Here is how weak you are. You must not be able to handle a business and deal with clients if you believe working for someone is better. Maybe for someone like you that cannot run a successful business and needs TO BE LEAD LIKE A SHEEP DOES THIS SOUND FAMILIAR TO YOU. YOU NEED TO WORK FOR SOMEONE WHO TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DO AN HONEST JOB OR RUN A BUSINESS. GO TO THE HERD WITH THE REST OF THE AMERICANS THAT BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE BANKS AND GOVERNMENT DO IS FOR YOUR BEST INTEREST. THEY ARE MAKING BILLIONS OFF US AND JUST WANT MORE. ASK A JUDGE OR POLITICIAN TO GIVE YOU HALF THEIR PAY AND SEE WHAT THEY TELL YOU. JUST TELL THEM YOU WANT TO REGULATE THEM THAT IS ALL IT IS. WAKE UP IF YOU CANNOT BE AN HONEST APPRAISER LIKE THE MAJORITY OF THEM GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS. CALIFORNIA APPRAISER YOU CAN HAVE ALL THE WORK THERE IS BECAUSE AFTER ALL EXPENSES AND PAYOUTS YOU WILL ASK YOURSELF WHY DO I HAVE NO MONEY LEFT. I’LL TELL YOU WE ARE IN BUSINESS FOR OURSELVES AND LIKE EVERY BUSINESS IN AMERICA THERE ARE EXPENSES. HOW DO YOU SIT BACK AND SAY YOU CAN TAKE HALF MY FEE WITH NO RESPONSIBILITY OR RISK AND NO EXPENSES. YOU JUST DON’T GET IT IT’S NOT WORKING FOR AM AMC. ITS THE INCOME AND PRESSURE AND DEBT IN TOTAL. FINALLY IF AN AMC PAYS ME $350 PER APPRAISAL AND I GET PAID EVERY WEEK FOR THE COMPLETED WORK. I AGREE WITH YOU I’LL WORK FOR AN AMC BECAUSE I CAN PAY MY BILLS AND MAKE A LIVING AND GET PAID TIMELY. IT’S BASIC BUSINESS 101. YOU DON’T SEE ANYONE IN THIS COUNTRY SAYING SURE GIVE ME A PAY CUT AND LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE WORK FOR ME AND IF I GET IN TROUBLE WILL YOU BE THERE FOR ME OR JUST HIRE THE NEXT APPRAISER. YOU SEE I AM ALWAYS LOST WHY PEOPLE CAN’T SEE STRAIGHT ON. NOONE GIVES THEIR PAY TO SOMEONE ELSE BUT YOU DO IT LIKE YOU MAKE A MILLION A YEAR AND ONLY LOST 50 DOLLARS. WAKE UP GET INTO FAST FOOD WHERE YOU NEED A SUPERVISOR TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO. HERES A BUSINESS STATEMENT A RICH MAN ONCE TOLD ME. IF YOU GIVE YOUR SERVICE AWAY FOR FREE THEN THATS WHAT IT IS WORTH. I ONLY PISSED BECAUSE ABOUT 90 PERCENT OF APPRAISERS I HAVE HEARD FROM ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THE LESS FESS AND CRAP CAUSING THE AMC TO GO DOWN JUST LIKE THE CREDIT CARD COMPANIES SHOULD THEY HAVE ALL BEEN RAPING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FOR YEARS NOW THAT PEOPLE ARE FINALLY SAYING NO THEY ARE ALL HURTING A THEY DON’T LIKE TO NOT HAVE THEIR MONEY. SO DON’T WORRY WHEN THE REST OF US SAVE THIS BUSINESS YOU CAN REAP THE REWARD OF GETTING PAID.

• 35 Carlos // Apr 15, 2009 at 8:35 am

  I have been appraising for 22 years. I started at an S & L making $1,500 per month and getting trained without any pressures and being able to review and look at appraisal completed buy 1000’s of appraiser’s and learning the good and bad that appraiser’s do. What we, as appraiser’s need to do is to be able to have a unified voice and take control of our industry. After the S & L crisis, which again was blamed on the appraisal industry, was born the USPAP and licensing. Now it was my understanding that each state would be in charge of making sure appraiser’s received education, training, (if new appraiser’s can find someone to train them), and disciplining the bad apples. Now it seems to me, that the states have not lived up to their end and our money for licensing is not being used wisely. I have reviewed horrible appraisals and turned them into my state, never to hear from anyone. I have been self-employed for 15 years and have had up 7 appraisers working for me at times. For the last 6 years I have been a one man shop and have clients dating back 15 years with me. What I have found, and believe to be one of the major reasons AMC are here to destroy our Profession is that appraisers are very cut throat. My clients always know if they need to push a value, they do not ask me, they know they can find someone from out of the area to do it. Or when work is hard to come by, there are appraiser’s who cut their fee to a ridiculously low fee. Like some others have suggested, if we could unite, from a union, etc, we could then decide, as a whole, how much we charge and how the appraisals should be completed. Taking a month vacation and/or calling a strike would really do wonders but unless the whole industry complied, it would only allow the low end appraisers to grab business. I am most likely taking the month of May off and seeing what happens. My gut feeling is that their will be chaos this summer and something’s will change. I know my broker clients are not happy not being able to order appraisals from me and already have nightmare stories about AMCs they have tried. My last thought to everyone is LET’S UNITE and take control of our needed industry.

• 36 SAM // Apr 15, 2009 at 7:17 pm

  Bite with no teeth. Thats what I think of my fellow appraisal industry. I occasionaly read the appraisal forum and only see wanna be, einstiens and rocket scientist with alter egos and aragents. We’ll, were are your teeth to bite into the AMC low fee epidemic. Its apparent, AMC are in business to search for the lowest fee possible. They all make commision and the lower the fee, the higher the reps commision and AMC profits. All this at our great EXPENSE. Appraisers fee has to compensate for many expenses including those that are not apparent, such as benefits, paid vacation, sick days, disability, 401k etc etc. If our fees dont cover the “invisible Expense” we’re practically better off making 40k a year as a porter in these coops we appraise. WOW, Paid vacation, no worries, stability etc…. WE NEED TO UNITE (like Union) AS APPRAISERS. WE NEED TO FIND WAYS OF MAKING OUR FEES STANDARD AND UNIVERSAL. To all those whom think this business is for the intelligent scholars, well, reality has’nt hit you yet. You’re replaceable with lower fees and its working. Is pithetic. Every man for himself. And shame on those appraisal co. who portray themselves AMC’S and give fee splits as rediculous if not less than real AMC. They are just making it worse for the rest. AMC are good, but let them pass the comm and prof expense on to the clients and banks, not the appraisers. Get real.

• 37 Mark // May 21, 2009 at 4:28 am

  I have been an appraiser for 12 years, When I first began I did do work for E-Appraiseit, It was the only work I could get. I worked endless hours and countless nights trying to build a small office and a good business to provide for my family and leave somthing behind for my kids. Over the past 10 of those years I have trained 7 other appraisers and they have been able to provide for their families just as I have. On Friday May 1st, I lost the last of my good clients to a national management company. To this point (May 21st) I have lost 80% of my business. My only option may be unemployment line and a new line of business. I still keep intouch with my clients and I have seen a large number of BAD reports that have come from these management companies and the appraisers who work for them. I am not saying that management companies are all bad, I think they are a good thing for the large national banks that don’t have time to go looking around for local appraisers. Hell I worked for one. But to give them all the work and take away what I have spent so many hours and nights building is WRONG. Now I will be told how much I have to work, how much I’ll get paid, and if I don’t comply NO WORK. What I want to know is how our government can let this happen, WHAT A JOKE! See you in the unemployment line

• 38 Jerry Allegro, SRA // May 27, 2009 at 11:30 am

  Who regulated Barney Frank? and Cuomo? No one !! Neither of them have any idea what we do as appraisers. If anyone was able to get inside these companies I would not be surprised to find out who has a vested interest in them. It seems this is politics as usual. This is the same old BS. I am on so many lists get tons of mail about all their anticipated work, yada yada yada, but never even a first order in years. This is more of the power grab evident in washington to try to socialize every aspect of our lives. How can any appraiser be truly independent when they squeeze our fees, have no liability, no regulation and dictate the entire real estate market. Before long you wont be entitled to make a profit real estate unless they dictate it or clear it with BF.

• 39 MAX IN TEXAS // May 27, 2009 at 7:38 pm

  AFTER READING ALL THESE COMMENTS I AM GLAD TO KNOW I AM NOT THE ONLY APPRAISER THAT HAS BEEN PUT OUT OF BUSINESS. AFTER 20 YEARS OF BUILDING MY APPRAISAL BUSINESS AS OF MAY 1 I HAVE LOST 90% OF MY CLIENTS NOT BY THEIR CHOICE BUT BY REGULATIONS THAT DO NOT MAKE THE LENDING PROCESS ANY BETTER FOR THE BORROWER OR THE LENDER. I HAVE RESISTED SIGNING UP WITH AMC’S BUT MAY BE FORCED TO OR LEAVE THE APPRAISAL PROFESSION. I HAVE DECIDED I WILL NOT WORK FOR THESE REDUCED FEES. I SIGNED UP FOR AND WAS ACCEPTED WITH SERVICELINK AND BEFORE I HAVE RECEIVED 1 ASSIGNMENT THEY ARE ASKING ME TO BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE AND LOWER MY FEE SCHEDULE. OTHERS ARE ASKING FOR A FEE TO BE PUT AT THE TOP OF THEIR LIST IN MY AREA. YALL CAN GO AHEAD AND WORK FOR THEM IF YOU WANT BUT AS FOR ME I WILL FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO DO WITH MY TIME. ITS A SHAME TO PUT 20+ YEARS INTO BUILDING A BUSINESS AND THEN LOSE IT. MAX IN TEXAS

• 40 wade gibson // May 29, 2009 at 9:15 pm

  Guys,
  I have read the other responses & most of them are negative to HVCC.
  I have also lost business due to HVCC, but this is just a tempory blip in the evolving industry. After +35 years in the Appraisal Profession I have seen/experienced numerous changes in the business, most being negative to my income.
  In the prior 5 months I have received at least 10 emails from “new” AMC’s wanting me to sign up. However, upon investigation of their critera, it was my determination that their “designated fee, turn time & payment schedule” was UNREAL-ISTIC & I did not submit any of the requested data, as they will be utilizing the basic data to market their services, IE, we have 3000 appraisers to perform your needed appraisals. Even though business may be down, don’t be too ready to reply to these solicitations, as you may be undermining your goal of having a profitable practice. Along time ago, when I went to school, the basic premise of any business was 3 points, quality/service/price. You can have any 2 of these points. However, due to USPAP, quality is not a negotiable point (unless you don’t mind going to losing your State Certificate or going to prison). That leaves service & price. If price is the main factor, then service (turn time) becomes irrevelant, if service is the primary factor, then price becomes irrevelant. The AMC’s do not seem to understand these basic points of any successful business, but we/appraisers need to recognize them. I have utilized these basic priciples of business & still make a decent living (not getting rich but able to pay my bills).
  Of course, the AMC’s sales staff will be trying to compete by offering the Lender a lower price for our services & in return expect us/appraiser’s to take the hicky in regards to our fee. In other words, it is our/appraiser’s due diligence to ask these questions and decide if we are willing to work for these reduced fees & unrealistic turn times. In other words, it’s up to us to say NO. I have had some of the past & present AMC’s that I have/still do business with tell me that they do not receive the fees that I charge & they have asked me to take a lesser fee. I have responded with a definate NO. 80% if the time they will call me back within 3 days & say that the Lender is now willing to pay my fee & greater than 24Hr turn time. Try this stategy, it works.
  Take it from an Old Dinosaur, this too will pass & the strong will survive.

• 41 Ron // Jun 2, 2009 at 3:46 pm

  I am really frustratedd with the refecent implementation of the HVCC with respect to selecting appraisers. Some lenders have begun using a software program that selects appraisers randomly. This has brought into the picture\s anyone who lists a zip code, city and/or county to perform appraisals. There are appraisers coming into my prime service area from several miles away that have called me for comps, etc. Competence/ due dilegence, market knowledge????? What really hurts is that in the over 25 years, I have completed appraisals on several of the properties. Further, this has increased the pool of appraisers and lowered my share of business by a considerable amount. Lenders relied on and trusted me inthe past. Now I’m put into the likes of trainees, incompetents and …… This is ridiculus.

• 42 jerry // Jul 9, 2009 at 9:28 am

  When is this all going to end. I had a client call me this am and complain the AMC wanted and open ended credit card for his appraisal fee. they had already charged him $695 for an appraisal of his new home. I am able to do it for $275 because I have done it once before and was able to offer a discount. The mortgage company refused to hold back the fees to the amc. The amc just wants to rip off the consumer. When is all of this going to stop. I had and established 26 year business. I am facing bankruptcy and about to lose my home. I have already lost most of my business and am barely hanging on. Im sending my SRA back as the present and past leadership of the Appraisal Institute is in bed with the AMC’s. I hate that moron in the white house. and Blarney Frank too. Try to get an email to those bozos and see how far you get. Welcome to the united NAZI states of NO obamaland.

• 43 charles walker // Jul 24, 2009 at 8:46 am

  i’ve been an appraiser for 23 years, almost all of my business has been with mortgage brokers, 6 of my companies for over 15 years. all of my relationships i have built are gone, in essence probably my business. what ever happened to free enterprise. i will not work for an amc, will not do split fees and also will not pay for back ground checks. i am 62 years old and my appraisal business is my life. there is not much demand in the market place for 62 year old men, without my appraisal business i am dead in the water as i am sure that many other appraisers are also in. the individuals who instituted the hvcc should be ashamed as it is apparent that the appraisal industry will suffer more than any other entity. many long time appraisers are going to be forced out of business.
  do the people who instituted hvcc know that appraissal assignments, by amcs and lenders, are put on the internet on a first come basis, or that amcs put orders out for the lowest bidders, or that some amcs will not accept the licensed appraiser, al designation, to do appraisals.
  for the sake of myself and fellow appraisers i pray to God that this whole situation gets over turned.

• 44 sam // Jul 25, 2009 at 4:25 pm

  The solution is quite simple… It is obvious many of us are disappointed with the mngt fees. Unfortunatly, there are many appr out there whom will take a low fee. These guy are either part timers or simply desperate at this point..I regret to say I simply know of a few, Since we or most, are all “desperatly”submitting to this low fee thing, working our buts off and realizing we could be doing better taking a cut in pay and working a 50 hr a week job with benefits, payed vac , days off and less stress, and because of fear of loosing business to the appraisers who are willing take on low fees, here is the strategy…( and it works).. stay on board with several 2 OR 3 etc, AMC’s ….whatever fees may be, your really not getting on board for their low fee business. The AMC who pays the best at the time should get the better end of your time… turn time, quality, work acceptance etc… And simply TURN DOWN the other AMC’s who want to pay the least $$ for the order that day, or if accepted already, simply put that order to the side, send it in real late…. but dont loose them, you’ll get a dozen calls that week. Once your getting a good work flow from the BETTER FEE AMC, call up the louzy AMC’S AND PUT IN FOR A REASONABLE FEE INCREASE (you really cant afford to work for them anyway)… These AMC’S are in business and competing just as we are… They Eventually will realize the importance of competing with other AMC’s with respect to paying out the right fees, and turn time ….. As appraisers and business people, we would be stupid to take on a report that day for an amc that offers a lower fee than one who is willing to pay a higher fee… SO THE NEXT TIME, SIMPLY BEGIN TO TURN DOWN A FEW LOWER FEE ORDERS ( for the hell of it)… (THIS WILL DRIVE THEM NUTS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THIS THING GETS GOING!!) AND TAKE ON THE HIGHER FEE ORDERS FROM THE AMC THAT GIVES YOU THE JOB THAT WEEK.. LET THEM WAIST TIME HUNTING FOR A LOW FEE APPRAISER… THE AMC’s will BEGIN TO CATCH ON TO WHAT WE ARE DOING AND GO INTO COMPETITION WITH THE HIGH FEE APPAISERS OR JUST RAISE THEIR CLIENT FEES!! THERE IS NOTHING TO LOOSE ON THE APPRAISERS END EXCEPT A LOUZY FEE FOR THAT DAY ( OR A LOUZY COMPANY)….. ITS CALLED MINIPULATING THE SYSTEM,, AFTER ALL THIS IS WHAT THE SYSTEM IS DOING TO APPRAISERS, IF WE ALL BEGIN DOING THIS IT WILL WORK AND YOU’LL STILL BE ON BOARD WITH ALL YOUR AMCs, EXCEPT WITH FUTURE EXPECTATIONS ONE DAY OF BEING CALLED WITH THAT HIGHER FEE YOU PUT IN FOR!! STICK TO IT. …THE FEW GUYS WHO CONTINUE TO ACCEPT THE LOW FEES WILL BE GETTING THE SHORT END OF THE STICK AND WONT BE ABLE TO HANDLE THE LOAD ANYWAYS AND WE’LL SIMPLY GET WHAT THEY CANT HANDLE AT REASONABLE FEES.. ..we are actually reversing the roll here… They are hunting for the lowest fees, we should be working hard on the individual reports with higher fees and turning down the lower fee reports… we need to pick and choose our work orders from here on as AMC’s pick and choose appraisers…

• 45 SDMike // Aug 5, 2009 at 4:36 pm

  I’m a Trainee and haven’t been in the business that long but what I’ve seen from the HVCC and the results it’s spawned, amazes me. When you take a huge number of Mortgage Brokers (a business opportunity for appraisers), eliminate them from the opportunity list and now force appraisers to focus on AMC’s and lenders, it cuts the business opportunity down by about 90%. How is that helping the nation’s economy??? I just read that the state of Colorado just posted a 50% loss in the number of mortgage brokers who’ve either gone out of business or just turned in their licenses. Again, how does that help the economy?? California is posting losses of 15% in the number of appraisers who are not renewing their licenses! It has to be that way nationally, I’d expect. As a trainee, my opportunity to get my hours toward licensure has been reduced by a huge number. How do Cuomo and his flunkies, expect to replentish the number of lost appraisers in the industry over time? I know, not his problem. He’s just dealing with the problems in the mortgage business by blaming someone else and creating some ham-fisted type of legislation (sort of) to kill off everyone and let God sort them out later. I’m an AI member too but quite honestly, don’t see AI management doing anything to remedy the situation. There is a huge problem here and everyone is turning a blind eye towards it, especially those who are supposed to be on our side. This is a crazy business with no help coming from anyone that I can tell. It’s like drowning…

• 46 Bill Couture // Aug 10, 2009 at 9:15 am

  My business for the past forty-four (44) years has been real estate. I entered the real estate appraisal field around 1968. Much has been learned from my association with other real estate appraisers who included employees, partners and competitors. We have learned that all forms of lenders seeking lower fees and faster turn times have been willing to settle for appraisers with no geographic competence. This practice has been commonly used for some years, however today it is more common than ever. AMCs handling accounts for the largest banks (with lender approval) hire appraisers who will travel 100 miles or more to appraise property where they have no geographic competence. Their data is presented exactly the way it appears in MLS services with no additional research to confirm its correctness. Although it only affects my practice to a small degree, I feel for those younger, less experienced appraisers who are willing to take the time necessary to present a quality report for a reasonable fee. Good appraisers are reluctant and some refuse to take the too distant assignments. It is doing extensive damage to the entire industry.

• 47 Annemieke Roell // Aug 10, 2009 at 5:24 pm

  It seems to me that regardless of the amount of pressure pout on us by Loan Officers, it is up to us to say no. We don’t need the HVCC, we need enforcement of USPAP.

  We are getting just as much pressure now, this time from AMC who have to keep their clients happy. And the consumer gets a lower quality appraisal for a higher price.

  BTW …. when will the IVPI be implemented??

• 48 BRYAN PARKHURST // Aug 11, 2009 at 8:12 am

  MOST IF NOT ALL THE AMCS ARE OWNED BY THE BIG BANKS.

  PRIOR TO AMCS THE BIG BANKS ALL HAD INTERNAL APPRAISAL DEPARTMENTS.

  THE BANKS, WITH HELP FROM OUR POLITICIANS, HAVE CREATED AMC’S AND OUR NOW PROFITING OFF OF THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY, BIG BUSINESS. IN 2006 LANDSAFE MADE $173 MILLION DOLLARS IN APPRAISAL REVENUES.

  UNTIL THE BANKS GET THEIR HANDS OUT OF THE APPRAISERS POCKETS WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO DO OUR JOB THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED.

  IT JUST BLOWS ME AWAY THAT A BANK CAN PROFIT ON THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY. AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS THIS.

  THIS IS NOT ABOUT LICENSING AND REGULATING THE AMCS. THAT IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. AMCS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN APPRAISAL DEPARTMENTS THAT THE BANKS USE TO HAVE NOW THEY OWN A PART OF THEM AND ARE ABLE TO PROFIT OFF THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY.

  LETS CALL THIS WHAT IT IS AND UNTIL THIS STOPS OUR INDUSTRY AND I HAVE BEEN AN APPRAISER FOR 15 YEARS, IS A SHAME. THE BANKS TELL US HOW TO FILL OUT THE APPRAISAL FORMS, TELL US WHAT THEY WANT IN THE APPRAISAL FORMS, TELL US WHAT COMPS THEY WANT IN THE APPRAISALS, TELL US HOW MUCH WE GET PAID ON THE APPRAISALS, TELL US OUR TURNAROUND TIMES, ETC, ETC. IM SURE YOUR GETTING MY DRIFT.

  WHAT OTHER INDUSTRY IS CONTROLLED BY THE CLIENT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY AND YET THEY WANT US TO PROVIDE AN UNBIASED OPINION OF VALUE.

  THE FUTURE OF OUR BUSINESS IS BLEAK. HOW CAN I TRAIN SOMEONE WITH $150 AS AN APPRAISAL FEE?

  ITS A SHAME WHAT HAS AND IS HAPPENING TO OUR INDUSTRY. I LOVE WHAT I DO BUT FINANCES WILL BE THE DECIDING FACTOR.

  YOU GET WHAT YOUR PAY FOR IN LIFE. ITS OBVIOUS THE BANKS DON’T CARE ABOUT THE APPRAISAL INDUSTRY. WHY SHOULD THEY WHEN OUR GOVERNMENT, YOUR TAX DOLLARS AND MINE, ARE THERE TO BAIL THEM OUT.

• 49 David // Aug 17, 2009 at 10:29 am

  Certified Residential Appraiser, NC: The HVCC does not apply to appraisers, but to lenders. It has proliferated the use of AMCs and has promoted their purpose, whether intended or not. However, nothing has given more power to AMCs more so than the real estate appraiser. Appraisers simply do not understand the value of the “appraisal” in the overall lending process. They do not understand the Value Theory of Business and those who make decisions to accept the lower fees, ridiculous turn times, and allow the AMC to MANAGE their business are affecting the businesses of those who consider themselves to be true professionals who possess a sense of business and value contribution to the lending process.

  Try the following and see what results you get. Walk into a Doctors office for treatment. Tell the Doctor you are only going to pay $50 total for treatment, and this is not a co-pay, it’s a total of $50. You’ll immediately be told to “take a hike.” The Doctor knows that you will not get treatment for that price from another Doctor. You’ll simply do without treatment!

  This scenario may also be contributing to the low fees accepted from AMCs. An appraiser trains new appraisers and the trainees’ fee is $150. And suppose the fee, after experience is gained, reaches $175. The overall fee as an example is $350. The trainee, once licensed or certified, sees an opportunity to establish their own business. Keep in mind, it is very cost effective to register a company name, buy your own software and E&O, business equipment (which nearly everyone has anyway), and work out of your home. The newly certified appraiser sees this….”I can make $75 to $100 more for an assignment on my own versus working for my supervisor.” This is where the lack of business experience creates poor decision making and the decisions made by these inexperienced individuals becomes detrimental to other appraisers. Many appraisers have no clue as to what it cost to operate their businesses. I see this as a huge dilemma for those who do know.

  I recently made the following calculations regarding who is paid what in the loan process. It is based upon a loan of $175,000. The lender/investor is excluded as we all know their profits are astronomical. This scenario assumes mortgage brokers get 1.5%.

  Broker - $2,625, or ……….. 1.5%
  Realtor - $10,500, or …………6%
  Attorney - $600, or ………..3/10 of 1%
  Appraiser - $275, or ………..1/10 of 1%

  Let’s look at the contribution of the appraiser AND the appraisal in the lending process.

  I’ve applied my own scenario afterwards to show how appraising compares to the discussion.

  The following writings are from mathematicians and business scholars who have won Nobel prizes or have made contributions to the business and economic worlds. They include John Nash, John von Neumann, Adam Brandenburger, and Barry Nalebuff. The theory states, and by the way is proven to be true:

  The definition of added value is, “Added value equals total value created with you in the game, minus total value created without you in the game.” Consider the mortgage lending process as a “game.” A key concept of the “game” theory of business is added value. This theory states that if competition is left unfettered, no player will get more than his or her individual added value in a game. Thus, added value allows us to characterize who has power and who does not. It allows us to understand how the pie is created and how it is divided. Following is a way to think about creating value and capturing value. Understand, there is a dual purpose here. The first is where appraisers have failed, in my opinion.

  1. CREATING VALUE is an inherently COOPERATIVE process. To create value, people CANNOT ACT IN ISOLATION. They have to recognize their INTERDEPENDENCE. The IMPORTANCE OF THE PRODUCT, good, or service CREATES THE VALUE.

  2. Capturing value is inherently COMPETITIVE. Single entities wishing to capture value will make the individual determination as to the value of the product to be captured. Creating value that can be captured is the essence of business. However, one must realize, when more and more players contributing similar products enter the game, individual value can be diminished. This is competition.

  For example, what is the added value of the glass that makes up the screen in a laptop computer? Without strong and lightweight glass, there would be no laptop computers. So, the added value of the glass is the same as the added value of the laptop computers, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are several makers of computer glass. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of glass, but what is the added value of their particular glass.

  Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting small manufacturing cost advantages. The computer makers would not miss any one manufacturer very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a glass that was even slightly less likely to break than that of its’ rivals. A broken screen renders a laptop practically useless. Thus, the added value of a tougher glass would equal the whole pie multiplied by the reduction in the chance of breakage, which is likely to change the value of the particular glass to dollars per computer rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the laptop computer) rather than one’s link in the chain (making glass).

  Now, let’s rephrase the above scenario to apply to the mortgage lending “game.”

  What is the added value of the appraisal that provides the property condition and value to a lender? Without an appraisal there would be no mortgage loan. So, the added value of the appraisal is the same as the added value of the mortgage loan, which is enormous. The only problem is that there are countless appraisers providing appraisal services. So for any one of them the right question is not what is the added value of the appraisal, but now becomes what is the added value of the individual appraiser.

  Here the answer tends to be pennies, reflecting competitive pricing for similar, undifferentiated services. The lenders or AMC’s/VMC’s would not miss any one appraiser very much. Of course, that would be changed if one of them could develop a means of completing quality, mistake-free reports in two hours rather than two days at lower fees. No appraisals renders the loan process worthless. Thus, the added value of a more reliable, faster, and cheaper appraisal would equal the whole pie multiplied by the improved service, which is likely to change the value of the particular appraiser to dollars per appraisal rather than pennies. What this illustrates is the gain from thinking about one’s added value over the value chain (the mortgage loan) rather than one’s link in the chain (the appraisal).

  This is a clear indication that the value within the mortgage lending process, or “game,” is the appraisal, not the appraiser. Lenders and AMC’s/VMC’s do not consider the value the individual appraiser provides to the process as they have injected their own guidelines that every appraiser must follow. Simply meet those guidelines and you have an acceptable appraisal, regardless of the quality of the data content. AMC’s/VMC’s primary goals are to find the cheapest and quickest, and those who can follow guidelines.

  For now, think of the “game” as a “pie” consisting of several “slices.” Each slice represents the entities involved in completing a mortgage lending transaction. They would most likely include: 1) the lenders; 2) the borrower; 3) the attorneys; 4) the AMCs/VMCs; and 5) the appraisal. One must ask, which slice of pie contributes the most value to the pie, and if that slice were removed, what then becomes the value of the pie? Remove the lender, no money, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the borrower, no loan. The pie becomes worthless. Remove the attorney. Deeds can still be recorded. Title searches can still be made. The pie may retain value, but the real effect is undetermined. Remove the AMC/VMC. Value is not affected. Remove the appraisal. The pie becomes worthless. However, replacing the appraisal slice with a multiple slices called “appraisers” diminishes the value of each appraiser slice of the pie. If one appraiser leaves the pie there are countless others to fill the void. The slice entitled appraisers has lost value until such circumstance arises where all appraisers leave the pie. At that point the pie is once again worthless.

  We are not an industry, we are a profession. And until we realize this and act as a profession rather than as individuals, we will never reach a plateau similar to that of Doctors, attorneys, or other highly skilled professions. I, for one, do not allow others to manage my daily business operations. I do not allow others to coerce, pressure, or intimidate me. I consider myself a professional and my business a profession, not an industry. I, like Doctors, provide a much needed service that has economic ramifications tthroughout the U.S. If that’s not responsibility I don’t know what is.

• 50 SIL // Aug 17, 2009 at 7:55 pm

  I agree with David, he makes a great point. Our service is one of the most important pieces of the pie and is well reconized, yet, there are knuckle head appraisers whom are not educated or experiences enough to realize the worth of our services and belittle with greed and acceptance of low fees. For those whom have worked this industry, we know through past experience and conversation that AMC, lenders, attorneys, the us gov, etc…realize the importance of the appraisal in this industry, after all we did make headlines. They understand and agree our service is worth more and has the highest liability/expense than most any other piece of this pie, and yet we are paid / accept the lowest fees??? If every appraiser stopped doing appraisals, banks would not lend as the risk would be to high and no one to hold accountable. With this in mind, WE, as business people, should relize the power of our services and demand the right price. The question I ask myself is what is stopping so manyfrom doing so?? Must we form a coalition and lobby in order to be heard and reconized??

• 51 Joseph C. Fisher // Aug 18, 2009 at 10:51 am

  PA Certified General Appraiser, AQB Certified USPAP Instructor.

  Everyone in this periodical seems to be of the same opinion and I agree. HVCC was founded and fomulated with good intnetions, that is to take the pressure off appraisers. Then along comes AMC’s with low fees and turn around demands that prohibit a through analysis of a property. If this keeps up, the mess that Mr. Obama inherited is going to look like kindergarten play. How do we as a profession get this matter directly into the hands of the President, Mr. Obama? I am certain that if he knew and understood the consequences of what has evolved as HVCC and AMC’s, things would change very quickly. Unfortunately, none of us can call the White House and request a personal meeting with the President. If any readers out there have any ideas relevant to the matter of getting this into the hands of the President, not some underling, it certainly would be great information.

  Joseph C. Fisher
  PA Certified General Appraiser
  AQB Certified USPAP Instructor

• 52 William // Aug 19, 2009 at 3:30 pm

  It is good to see the “New York Times” article and the article in yesterdays Wall Street Journal.

  What about the destruction of many Appraisal Businesses to no benefit for the Property Underwriting process. [??]

  How about establishing a cross lender Regional Review process that would enable the creation of audit trails for quality control for Fair Market Value purposes and Fraud purposes. Each loan would be tasked by a review fee to pay for the sampling. Each Loan would be tracked by number [as required by the Fed.]. This approach would eliminate the need for Appraisal Management Co’s. This approach would enable the issues regarding a particular file such as Fraud, inappropriate Appraisal pressure, or Valuation issues to be resolved within the local market. Further this would provide the mortgage securities industry with the third party Value Audit vital for the “transparency” necessary for their transactions.

• 53 Allen W Guidry // Aug 26, 2009 at 9:37 am

  SIGN AND CIRCULATE >>> A.S.A.P

  HVCC UPDATE August 25, 2009:
  (www.HVCCPetition.com)
  HVCC continues to devastate home values across the U.S. We fear that with higher Fannie and Freddie loan limits it will carry through to our former “jumbo” markets, leading the country even further into recession. As we’ve shared in the past, Representatives Childers (D-MS) and Miller (R-CA) introduced legislation (H.R. 3004) requesting an 18 month moratorium on the Home Valuation Code of Conduct (HVCC). H.R. 3044 now has over 54 co-sponsors and now is the time to forward our petition to every person you know and every representative in the country. Read some of the comments in the petition and you will soon understand the harmful nature of this horribly misguided code. Hundreds of thousands of consumers are being robbed of their opportunity to enjoy historically low rates by Attorney General Andrew Cuomo’s rule. HVCC needs to be permanently reversed in order to restore lower costs to the consumer and to protect the thousands of real estate transactions stalled by this horribly misguided code.

  Please sign and forward the following petition and forward to everyone you know in the industry and ask them to forward to their representatives: Sign-Here

  Learn more at our petition site here
  (http://www.hvccpetition.com/video.aspx)

• 54 Natasha Ginzburg // Sep 21, 2009 at 2:43 pm

  My comment is that I have been appraising for 22 years and have been very successful with numerous clients. I have never worked with AMC’s, because I did not have to. Now, after 22 years, I have no work. All the AMC’s I applied with have not given me a single job as of yet.

• 55 This is nuts.. // Sep 28, 2009 at 9:03 pm

  I had been working with an AMC for almost a full year untill these recent three months. I was cut off cold. Not sure why as everything went out on time and we my “quarterly report card” was alway full of A’s. I had contacted the AMC management office on several occasions to ask if Im off the list or if there had been any issues that I should know of as I am no longer recieving orders. They said they didnt see any issues with my profile or reports, my fees were reasonable
  (yeah right), but they have been slow. I doubt this considering they were sending me 6-8 orders per week and one day just 0. This is also one of the larger banks. Well, I just recently spoke with an old friend appraiser of mine now certified whom lives in my area and coincidently just signed up for the same AMC three months ago, and coincidently is working my same areas, and coincidently is doing the jobs for an unreasonably cheaper fee …(although he’s complaining the fees suck (A HOLE), shame on him, dont know how the hell he’s doing it!)… and he showed me he has been steady busy for three months. Cant feed the family on just peanuts….. This industry IS nuts! Appraisers are taking the biggest hit and were doing it to ourselves. I might agree with the AMC skimming a small reasonable interest off the top for doing extra’s, but the fees they are offering dont even cover our expense, never the less, other things like a paid vacation or savings for slow/dead months.

• 56 Joe // Oct 9, 2009 at 9:00 am

  Recommendation to the guy wondering where his AMC work went.

  Drop your fees down to $95 per appraisal. This should put you back into rotation for a few months.

  It’s a system that’s guaranteed to fail buddy…if you’re accepting AMC orders you are as much a part of the problem as the AMCs are.

• 57 D // Oct 9, 2009 at 9:15 am

  My Experience With HVCC

  We watched revenue drop from $12,000 per month to around $300 per month between May 1st and August. We lost every bank client and mortgage company aside from 1. We’ve been in the business for nearly 20 years but closed the appraisal department after giving HVCC a test run. Past experiences told us that even if you receive a great deal of work today by cutting fees you will be quickly dropped from their roster if someone newer and cheaper came along (see recent post above).

  We’ve earned more money (and smiles) from shorting bank stocks and FNMA stock than we ever made in the appraisal business. Payback is hell? HVCC will be one of the largest factors determining whether the country enters a secondary dip. Once that happens (and I expect that it will) we will repeat our shorting strategy. Appraisers may want to consider this as a sideline to recoup some of their lost income.

• 58 Lori D // Oct 14, 2009 at 5:30 am

  I am on quite a few HVCC lists and I have not received any work…none…zip. Why is that? I cant market myself and/or my business, except to attorneys who are bombarded with appraisers who dont have lender work.
  I think there needs to be a law suit… against who, Im not sure… Mario Cuomo? Wall street for packaging the risky CDO’s? Standards and Poor for rating those CDO’s AAA? Bill Clinton, FNMA for opening up the housing market to people who shouldnt have owned homes in the first place?
  But our livelihood has been hijacked. We can no longer make a living. We can no longer market ourselves and do quality work and expect to grow our business from that.
  And to those happy HVCC appraisers…for some reason you are getting work, where as alot of us are not.
  Someone please tell me why many of us on these lists are not getting picked.
  If nothing else, we appraisers should be getting something from that stimulus package, whether it be money or free retraining for a different career.
  If this HVCC is not going away, then maybe there should atleast be a mandatory roster rotation so we all get work.
  Let me say it again….I have not received one assignment from any AMC.
  Are there any attorneys who think we have a case here?

• 59 Dave Rioux // Oct 14, 2009 at 7:14 am

  We are finding that lenders are getting more reviews of our work, which is OK. Except the AMC’s use appraiser’s that are the cheapest, from outside our market area who don’t have a clue what effects values here on the coast of FL. They “ding” our report causing us to spend countless hours “defending” our analysis and conclusions. I am sure that AMC’s are using appraisers from other market areas that meet there fee and unreasonable turn times. I feel this is a dangerous practice that will result in a host of problems for everyone, lenders. AMC’s and appraisers.

• 60 Erich // Feb 4, 2010 at 12:24 pm

  It strikes me that the entire problem is that lenders sell all their paper. The secondary market is then stuck with the tab when default occurs and they immediately go looking for someone esle to blame. Not that this will happen, but if we went back to lenders filing the mortgage in the back room we would solve all the problems immediately. No pressure to hit values; honesty and quality would prevail. After 18 years of appraising, I finally narrowed my client base down to only lenders that held their own paperwork. Then HVCC and a stagnant economy came along and about 1/2 my business went away. If Fannie and Freddie would simply hold lenders liable for any “shady” mortgages, we could do away with AMCs overnight and the entire industry would become more reputable immediately. Yes, all the “do gooders” of the world would have a fit. People with bad credit and no money couldn’t buy a house. Hmm, maybe they could rent–kind of like the old days when you had to work towards buying a house and not just have some slimy lender give you a 100% loan–knowing very well it is a bad financial decision.

• 61 salvato // Feb 15, 2010 at 7:14 pm

  This is real!!!
  This year, I worked 6-7 days per week , 8am to 11pm with some breaks in between…

  by end of year I am -$4,000 in the whole in my personal and business expenses.. gained a dozen anxiety attacks on my slow weeks, cut down to the bare minimum, no vacation time, no days off, worked 2 out of 3 holidays, no money saved.. It looks all ok when your getting work, till you slow down and realize you have nothing saved for your “rainy involentary days off or involentary vacation time. Comes dec, jan, feb your in the whole… Accepting a minimum fee for work is not enough to make up for any potential future lost days, which caught me by surprise and put me in a deep hole. We can only rely on a hand full of AMC’s whom now have the “Monopoly” in this business. That alone scares me. I come to the end of the year to realize I worked just hoping to get by day by day, and with more loss than gain come tax time/end of year… this is just not worth it..I come to realize there is only a realistic MINIMUM fee that I can accepted as a break even.. that IS $350.00 1 fam and $500.00 2 fam etc.. etc.. any less than this and an appraiser is litterely at a negative… unless he/she is supported by mom and dad and has free mls and software, e&o, and health ins, etc… It appears the old timers really had there fees down packed from the begining. No wonder.

• 62 Adam // Feb 18, 2010 at 9:44 pm

  Class action lawsuit???…..there is a ton of money in this and I bet there is some attorney out there with a vision of big bucks…..this is an in your face exploitation of a profession, legalized extortion, violation of RESPA on so many levels, the list goes on and on. Nothing more than a opportunity for the big boys to make the move at a perfect time with the collapse of the industry…..THE CAUSE OF ALL THIS WAS COLLUSION BETWEEN AN AMC AND A LENDER!!!!!! Hopefully there is an attorney out there with some stones.
  If so, if there is an attorney interested in retiring in a five year period, email me at acnydirect at aol.com. I have plenty of dirt on these people and have many peers that will be MORE than willing to ride this thing out.

• 63 George // Feb 20, 2010 at 6:24 pm

  First off, as an aside; the grammar and spelling from you “professionals” is a disgrace. If you can’t spell or construct a sentence; maybe you are in the wrong business…or you’re drinking! Now, as to all of you calling for unions, strikes, etc.,…you have associations that supposedly represent you. You pay their salaries, for their “important” conferences…but nothing ever happens…NOTHING!
  How about quitting all these B/S organizations and see if the leaders will get out of bed with the AMCs and software slime and really do something. Appraisers offer nothing but minimal dues (I don’t) and the Al Cerones of the appraisal world laugh all the way to the bank!

• 64 Fred // Mar 2, 2010 at 4:58 pm

  Appraiser for 19 years. From an $80,000+/year income to $11,000 last year. I swallowed my pide and tried doing reviews for $15 each. I would need to sit at the computer 10 hours a day to make $200. At 57 years old where do I go now. There’s no bailout for self employed appraisers. Signed up with dozens of AMCs, not one order. My world has been destroyed by the criminals in Washington and Wall Street who caused this mess.

• 65 George // Mar 3, 2010 at 6:04 pm

  Yep, Fred, doing desktops is an option. I’m doing a few for the same AMC I get most of my work from. They say they pay $30 but I’ll have to see.
  Got a really off the wall revision request…this guy couldn’t do basic math…and I told him so. Revision request came right back…like a bad penny. So I called the home office (or 1 of 2 out of 4 that were operating a year ago) and asked why I was being pestered about nothing. The answer was really no surprise.
  Reviewing is going off-shore…and this kid’s office is closing in two weeks.
  Someone is making money off this but the reviews will be nonsense (and never a phone number because the reviewer can’t speak English.
  This is not a profession; it’s a circus. Fees are non-negotiable, turn-times are impossible and I have no idea if my report really stays “my report”.
  Appraisers are in “the way” of the deal. AMCs just took a piece of the action and keep the appraiser at a distance. I make 1/3 of what I did 6 years ago…even working with AMCs! Someone’s getting the skin but not the appraiser.

• 66 George // Mar 4, 2010 at 8:47 pm

  An update, Fred!
  I thought I had a better deal with the desktop reviews. At $30, I might go crazy staring at the monitor but it was still $300.
  Got all this jive software today with passwords, formats, etc. The fee? $15. We are at the end of the line. Odd thing is the turn-time is more generous than for full appraisals.
  There was a December (December!!) when I made $9,000! I worked my butt off but it was a Merry Christmas. Now I might get a truck and plow streets!

• 67 Boone Smith // Mar 12, 2010 at 4:12 pm

  As long as there is no accountability (and related enforcement) related to the individuals in the mortgage industry who’s fees depend on closing the loan, this entire industry will remain questionable, and we will probably remain the scapegoats. We do need to be rid of the unscrupulous appraisers, but how will that process be served by serving up the appraisal orders to the lowest bidder, without regard for quality?

  Re the AMCs, I received a call from “National Appraisals & Consulting” re an order and they offered the assignment at $275. I told them that I could comply with the prearranged inspection date for the next morning, but would not accept the assignment for less than $300. They agreed to pay $300, I inspected the property and submitted the report. I received a check a few months later for $105 and was told that they had deducted their “annual fee” from the amount they owed to me. Needless to say, I did not (and would never have) agree to pay a fee, but they were totally unwilling to discuss the situation. I received one other order from them, at the $275 fee, which I did not accept. Beware of this group, lest the same thing happen to you!!

• 68 Tom // Mar 17, 2010 at 7:50 am

  I think if it is ok for lenders to have a blacklist to place appraisers on (AMC’s can also), then it should be ok for appraisers to create an AMC or Lender blacklist. If we would all join in standing up to the unfair AMC’s then they will have to come around or go out of business. My guess is it would have to happen quickly or they will not be able to meet their unrealistic promise to the lenders that signed up with them. So the question is, whom can organize something like this and get the word out to every appraiser in the country ? Perhaps sites like this could take it on, Al a mode ? A combination or joint effort of our key players in getting information out to appraisers. All of our addresses are available from the board and, obviously, many continuing ed providers get them as they send out info all the time. If we all make an effort to identify the AMC that is trying to get us to accept the low ball fee, then we may be able to put the squeeze on them by joining together in not accepting any assignments from them thus eliminating them from the industry altogether. That would soon send a very loud message to all others that says, be fair - or be gone ! And for those appraisers out there that are accepting these lower fees from those AMC’s, believe it or not, you can benefit too. Because the fees will go up to what is reasonable and customary which will put more money into your pockets. Lets all realize the facts- too many loans are being done every day for the appraisal process to slow or stop. We can effectively halt the entire process in as little as a week. We can all endure a week of no pay if it means we get the system to work fairly. The end result will mean thousands, thousands, of more dollars in your pocket every year, all for a small effort. And by taking on the unfair AMC, you are only going without pay from them so they come around to playing fair. So whomever reads this, pass along the idea of the blacklist to as many appraisers as you can and post/email to companies like this and Al a mode to ask them to head up the challenge and get the site up and working and let every appraiser know about it. We can make a difference it we want to.

• 69 Bob // Mar 23, 2010 at 5:45 pm

  I think that we as appraisers need to unionize to have one central voice. I am tired of accepting low fee appraisals but I need to feed my family. I wouldn’t mind working with the AMCs if they let us make our fee then charge the lender/client for their services. Why are they taking there cut out of our fees??? This is absurd!! We need to get organized as a group!! Any suggestions?

• 70 Ex Appraiser // Apr 22, 2010 at 3:59 pm

  Appraiser will learn to organize roughly 10 milliion years after pigs learn to fly. Don’t ask me why; they appear to be an intelligent group but they cannot do it. They’ve had two years of advance warning about HVCC and for the last year they have surrendered 50-60% of their income to bank owned AMCs. Are they any closer to have a national organization in place? Not even close. They continue to busy themselves with licking on the dry bones that are thrown to them and pretend that no problem exists.

• 71 Ex Appraiser // Apr 22, 2010 at 4:07 pm

  With that being said….the sad truth is that the only solution to getting rid of AMCs and HVCC is a national appraisers strike against AMC work.
  There is NO OTHER SOLUTION.

  The National Mortgage Brokers Association attempted to halt it with a lawsuit…which failed.
  Congress has attempted to halt it (and they did in the House). Unfortunately it will never make it through the Senate because Banks Own The Senate.

  Ask yourself one question. Would you prefer to bleed to death ever so slowly over the next year or would you be willing to make a stand for the career that you invested most of your life in.

  A NATIONAL APPRAISERS STRIKE…it’s the only solution that will work.

• 72 sil // Apr 28, 2010 at 1:46 pm

  For the past two years or so I tried to hold on to this business with everything I had. It was like being stranded at sea with a row boat taking in water. The new changes, Amc fees and turn time just did’nt cut it. Going back to a real job, the restaurant bus… good luck to all.

• 73 BrentB // May 8, 2010 at 10:26 am

  Post HVCC? My business is DYING! A lucrative business that I built from nothing with my hard work and integrity is now dying….a slow death. I pay to get my jobs from Appraisal Port—I pay 4 different MLS—I pay for insurance, software updates, new software, licensing fees, internet, etc etc.—–I get pressured to turn jobs in 48 hours from inspection, and then wait up to 90 days to get paid for said job. My work load has been cut to less than HALF of what it had been—-with complete areas that I have worked for 15 years being taken away ENTIRELY. I am watching Real Estate Agents do BPOs for lending purposes for $50 or more—-taking away even more work. I am pressured every day by the AMCs to work harder, faster for less money—-that is only IF I am at my computer within that 4 hour window to accept the scanty jobs coming my way. I live in a rural area 150 miles from some of my work—-but HVCC has cut that off because apparently after 15 years of working these rural areas, my distance now makes me unqualified. FHA is another avenue of work taken away from me—one day as a Licensed Real Estate Appraiser I was on the approved list doing great work—then HVCC kicked in and all of a sudden because I am not State Certified—I was no longer qualified—OVERNIGHT!

  HVCC is destroying the Independent Appraisal Business—quickly and thoroughly. I don’t want to quit—but I can barely pay my bills and support my family today. Before HVCC—-my business supported us quite well. I don’t know what I am going to do—I don’t even know if moving to a more urban area will help my business after reading on here. I wish someone could come up with a solution—-I am more than happy to help and be a part of it.

• 74 RWS // May 30, 2010 at 3:02 pm

  WAIT!!!!
  I hear and read complaints about appraiser fees.

  I hear that AMC’s are taking half of the appraiser’s rightful fee.

  NOT TRUE. What should be an appraiser’s rightful fee?

  Think about it, if you were an appraiser in the early 1990’s if your fee was $300. to $350.
  What should it me now?

  How much have cars gone up since then? Or, how about houses. Or anything else.
  Just look at what everyone else is working for compared to the 1990’s !!!
  If you caluculate the cost of living increases others have gotten in the last 20yrs, what would that $300. appraisal cost now?
  How about it could someone figure that out for me?
  Just take the % increase EVERYONE ELSE have gotten and see what an appraisal should cost now.
  Somebody get your calculator out and let me know.

• 75 Brian // Jun 8, 2010 at 10:47 am

  Yes, the appraiser is partially to balme for lower fees by accepting them. However, there are areas that AMC’s dominate, and if you want work you have to accept what they offer. Another troubling aspect is that the AMC’s assign appraisals to appraisers that are 25 - 30 miles away from in a metro area. I live and appraise in the outer ring suburbs of a major metro area and am aware of appraisers coming from 30 miles away to perform appraisals when I am right here. I only cover 3 suburbs that are adjacent and very seldom have to go over 10 miles to perform an appraisal. This information about appraisers from 30 miles away comes from loan officers that I have dealt with for 20 years. The loan officers are not pleased with this situation either. My own home was appraised by an appraiser who lives in a neighboring community, 5 miles away. That appraiser used 5 lender mediated sales to compare my home to when there were 6 market sales within 5 blocks of my property. Appraiser incompetence, yes. But these are the appraisers that just want work no matter the fee or quality of work.
  In my opinion, appraisers have to stick together, but they never have. A short appraiser’s strike would bring lenders to their knees. From 1994 to 2004 I received
  $ 350 for a full appraisal and $ 425 for an FHA appraisal. Prior to that it was $ 325 and $ 375 respectively. Todays fees are much less in an area controlled by AMC’s. The big question is: how do you get appraisers to stick together when they never have in the past?

• 76 fred vander wal // Jul 28, 2010 at 11:55 am

  I work alot with MDA solutions who in themselves are a decent AMC. However, today, I was put on a do not use list by PNC Bank because of the way I fill out the 1004MC form (I think). MDA would be the first to say my values/rationale/quality and turn times are exceptional.
  I’m looking for recourse here….where do I complain first, next, next and next because I am dying on this moutain.

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